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Official discussion thread: "Proof" - Spoilers

  • Avatar of pichikin

    pichikin

    [41]Oct 1, 2011
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    i don't think it's fair to say that those who are complaining about this episode are just a bunch of hard-to-please nitpickers and that they should just be happy that the team is back together. if we shouldn't care about the quality of the show, why even watch at all? if we should just be happy to see the team together, why not just stare at cm cast photos all day? it always strikes me as funny when people on forums complain about other people who complain on forums because, after all, isn't that what forums are for - to air out thoughts whether negative or positive?
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  • Avatar of phf3947

    phf3947

    [42]Oct 1, 2011
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    You're absolutely right, Pichikin. This forum is for people to express their opinions - both pro and con - on the individual aspects the show. Over the years, we've become accustomed to ignoring judgmental people because it's just not worth starting a flame war because someone disagrees with what we think.
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    phf3947

    [43]Oct 1, 2011
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    [ QUOTE="pichikin"]don't get me wrong. i'm extremely happy that the team is back together. i'm not complaining just for the heck of it. i barely post here at all but this time, i felt like the show was so sorely mishandled and i'm so upset with the writer that i just had to say something. imagine you entrust your beloved poodle to a groomer who then dyes her delicate fur ten different shades of puke green and then gives her a rough patchy cut. you will still love your pet (that won't change) but you will surely be disappointed with the outcome and angry at the groomer! that's how i feel. i just wish they would put cm into more capable hands next time. someone who appreciates all its nuances and everything that it does best.[/QUOTE ]

    I love your analogy here. It's exactly how I feel when I think of our show before Season 6 and how it is now. As I watch repeats on ION and A&E, all I can think of is where is that show - that's the one I want to watch on CBS.
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  • Avatar of CM1Fan

    CM1Fan

    [44]Oct 1, 2011
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    Great interview with Janine. Thanks.

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  • Avatar of CM1Fan

    CM1Fan

    [45]Oct 1, 2011
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    I find it very interesting how each of us sees the show so differently. I looked back over comments made from previous shows and previous years. There were pros and cons even before the 6th year. I wonder sometimes how any writer could ever make all the fans happy. I would think it would be very difficult for them to offer an episode in which a character is fully explained, has handled all their baggage, is in harmony with all team members and still catches bad guys who commit crimes that we never see. Now that would be boring to me. I prefer stories with complications and sometimes, unanswered questions. And I don't mind a little gore or violence. It makes it real.
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  • Avatar of bluemystique

    bluemystique

    [46]Oct 1, 2011
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    pichikin wrote:
    i don't think it's fair to say that those who are complaining about this episode are just a bunch of hard-to-please nitpickers and that they should just be happy that the team is back together. if we shouldn't care about the quality of the show, why even watch at all? if we should just be happy to see the team together, why not just stare at cm cast photos all day? it always strikes me as funny when people on forums complain about other people who complain on forums because, after all, isn't that what forums are for - to air out thoughts whether negative or positive?


    Thank you very much for this astute analogy.


    I personally do get increasingly irritated when fans on forums are criticized for expressing their opinion, or in some cases their "fandom" is questioned because they may have something negative to say about the show or it's characters. I would think that as a result of being a true fan of the show, it's perfectly natural and okay for the fans to express both good and bad things about the show. Pointing out the flaws and not asking for less than the best on a show that is great in no way means that we're nitpicky or complaining too much. I've seen overall that people expressed both things that they liked and disliked about the episode. No one is merely tearing the show apart for the sole purpose of tearing it apart. I like quality work and writing. If I see something is off than I venture onto a forum to see if somebody else perhaps noticed what I noticed. I relish reading all the varying reactions and interpretations. That is the nature of a forum afterall. I speak for myself in saying most of this but, honestly I was never a big JJ or Emily fan from the beginning. They just weren't well written characters compared to the others. I wasn't nearly as affected as some fans when they were gone. I expressed my displeasure in how things were done and the reasonings behind it but I wasn't complaining like most. I also didn't care one way or another when they came back. What I did care about was how well the writers would do in writing them back in after making them depart the way they did. Expecting an iota ofrealism a modicum of decent writing out of a show that is usually well written doesn't make me someone who can't be pleased. One of my favorite quotes is : "The problem with most people is we'd rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism."-Norman Peale.Offering construcitive criticism doesn't make any of the fans wrong, or mean that they are difficult to please, or will never be happy. It means we care enough about the show to point out where we think they went wrong or off track. Isn't the constructive criticism, downright criticism, and complaints what got two of the actresses back afterall?! Just pointing that out.


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  • Avatar of CMFAN29

    CMFAN29

    [47]Oct 1, 2011
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    I totally agree bluemystique !! I have posted some comments on this blog & other blogs regarding my concerns about the direction of the show for Season 7. I was not impressed with episode 2 compared to episode one. I did like the team interaction though and thought the episode at least had the potential to be great!! I also know & understand that some fans DO NOT mind Criminal Minds romances, but I MUCH rather have creative story lines. But, everyone has different opinions. Barrois' statement in the chat that there will be lots of love & we will see Hotch in a different light really concerned me as well as the idea of a possible Hotch romance. I feel that I am NOT LESS of a fan if I voice my discontent about some aspects of the show. These are ONLY my HONEST opinions, and I totally hope other readers do not think that I am trying to bash the show because I am not. I love the first 5 seasons of the show & Hotch is my favorite character on TV!!! Criminal Minds is my entertainment! I just want episodes like 100 or some of the early episodes of the show. Team interaction needs to continue not cheesy love interest stories!!! While some episodes were better than others, I was generally pleased with the direction of the show during the 1st five seasons.
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  • Avatar of REIDFANATIC

    REIDFANATIC

    [48]Oct 2, 2011
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    CM1Fan wrote:
    I would think it would be very difficult for them to offer an episode in which a character is fully explained, has handled all their baggage, is in harmony with all team members and still catches bad guys who commit crimes that we never see. Now that would be boring to me. I prefer stories with complications and sometimes, unanswered questions. And I don't mind a little gore or violence. It makes it real.


    I agree with what bluemystique said. And no CM1Fan, no episode will please everyone. I agree that it would be difficult to have an episode in which a character, as you say, is fully explained, baggage handled and so forth. That's what got me about this episode. JJ says I'm sorry and Prentiss says a few words with Reid on the plane and suddenly everything is right with them and he's happily clinking glasses at the cooking get together. A betrayal of trust is not rectified that quickly. When you've lost someone's trust you can't just say you're sorry, you have to prove it, earn their trust again, but it seems here that they have handled their baggage and are in harmony by the time the final credits roll. And the writer tells us they are bff's again. I'm not saying I wanted it drawn out like a soap opera, God forbid, but seeing them trying to work it out would, as you said, make it real.


    I like stories with complications and unanswered questions as well and I also don't mind a little gore or violence, but not just for the sake of violence and gore. It has to have some meaning in the plot. And the constant revealing of the unsub is really beginning to bug me. I went back over the episodes in early seasons and, in very few, do we know who the unsub is and in most of them, it's crucial to the plot that we know, like The Big Game. Most of those times though, we had to wait for the team to figure it out as to why the unsub was doing what he was, but in this one, you knew right off that Cy was obsessed with his brother's wife and that was the reason behind everything. No mystery, we just wait for the team to catch up instead of their profilinghelping to leadus to the answer.

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  • Avatar of Alydarbaby

    Alydarbaby

    [49]Oct 2, 2011
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    I liked the episode but was not entirely happy with it. It seems to me that Reid sort of regressed from the 1st episode where he was taking control and stepping up to the plate to this episode where he was clearly in denial, angry and downright mean with his backhanded comments toward JJ. His character clearly has trust issues and perhaps that is what they were trying to explore here. I think we will learn more when they get to the part where they tell us what is going on with is Mom. Until then he seems to be more of an enigma than he ever has been in seasons before. I don't get how one simple conversation with Prentiss seemed to make everything "okay"... If it were the real world one would just say the boy needs to get laid. LOLOLOLOL



    I love the fact they are giving the girls more air time. Hopefully there will be more of this in the upcoming episodes. IMO JJ will make an awesome profiler.

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  • Avatar of phf3947

    phf3947

    [50]Oct 4, 2011
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    Alydarbaby wrote:
    I love the fact they are giving the girls more air time. Hopefully there will be more of this in the upcoming episodes. IMO JJ will make an awesome profiler.

    Agree with you about this. And it appears the quote feature in the forum is fixed for now. Fingers crossed it stays that way.
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  • Avatar of Will_of_the_D

    Will_of_the_D

    [52]Oct 5, 2011
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    Finnegan77 wrote:
    I'd like a list of those more graphic episodes before season 6 please. Hints, flashes, scenes that give a nod towards what the unsub was doing? Yep, we had loads of that. Actually watching the entire torture? Nope, don't remember that. Crying for 10 weeks? I don't know anyone who's cried for 10 weeks straight that a husband/wife has died suddenly let alone a co-worker. Reid was more than clinically depressed if that happened and needed treatment.



    Just about all of the episodes tended to be more graphic than that? lol Most of this torture happened offscreen. The episode where that undercover agent was tortured in Season 1 was considerably more graphic than this. The episode where that girl was put through that crazy funhouse got pretty graphic. The Reaper cut off a guy's fingers. Sorry, but the idea that this was any more graphic than the show has been in the past just feels like something somebody who hasn't watched the show would say.



    10 weeks straight could easily be hyperbole. He likely went to JJ's house for comfort because his routine was shaken up. And if you're still calling these people just co-workers, than I also wonder if you've been watching. They're like family and sometimes people are devastated when they lose family, and they don't just snap back within a few months. Reid has always been portrayed as quite sensitive so crying for 10 weeks seemed perfectly in-character to me.


    It's almost feeling to me like people are trying to prove some point and are looking for reasons why they should be angry with the show. I guess without Ashley, the scapegoats for why CM sucks this week are going to have to be a little more clever. But still, hard to take these complaints seriously when the same thing could probably be said about every episode since the series started.

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  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [53]Oct 7, 2011
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    Good episode Reid should've been pissed and he's not some macho guy so yeah he was crying and the gore was a nice welcome back to the shows roots.

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  • Avatar of JessieMarie2

    JessieMarie2

    [54]Dec 8, 2011
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    ik this ep aired awhile ago but i had to re visit this forum anyways i kinda like the ep ! personally i think the 10 weeks was alittle much 5 or 6 would have been better but u have to remember the audiance range i am a teenager and as far as i am concerned teens like action and like complactions and such so i thught this reid situation was intresting and entertaining and i like that one of the cast members had a reaction right after she got back bc i would be mad and hurt and felt like no one could trust me! s as i said i think this was played out very well! and i really enjoyed the sceans between jj and reid! i still re watch them!


    but i hated the scean on the jet where emily said i morned the loss of 6 friends!!!!!!!!!!!!! no because you knew they were still alove! ahhh and i hated the kitchen scean i wish reid wouldnt have came or came and stood away from jj and was not compleatly fine bc personally after one day (from the time of the case to the jet) idk if i would have compleatly got over it or we cold have seen them say something to each other!


    but i think this was a good ep and personally this has been one of my fav eps f the season but i do miss the first 5 sasons and al the profiling!

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  • Avatar of nutmeg0963

    nutmeg0963

    [55]Apr 13, 2012
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    Yeah, I wanted to proverbially smack Prentiss upside the head for the way she handled him on the plane...especially in the following episode or two later when she went out of her way to kiss Morgan's behind and make it up to him for having to deal with her "death."

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