Criminal Minds Forums

Wednesday 10:00 PM on CBSBetween Seasons

Official discussion thread: "Scared to Death" - Spoilers

  • Avatar of Finnegan77

    Finnegan77

    [41]Oct 13, 2007
    • member since: 01/18/07
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 1,866
    BAUCTU wrote:

    There's lots of things I loved about this episode: the elevator scene was funny, a nice Prentiss/Reid scene and the Hotch/Morgan scene on the plane.

    So what didn't I like? I don't know really, the case was abit 'paint by numbers' and really not worthy of the BAU, or at least it all seemed abit too obvious to me. Do we really need 3 top FBI agents checking launderettes etc for something like that?

    A very good Hotch episode so I'm mostly happy. It's good to see that he has someone to be there for him now that Gideon has gone. The picture he was loking at at the beginning, was it a painting by Jack?



    I think so - it looked like one of those "dip the child's hand into the paint and press it on the paper" pictures to me. Very sad. He turned it over pretty quickly when Erin Strauss entered the room. I also thought her words to Hotchner about Gideon tolled the death knell for any guest appearances by Mandy Patinkin - when Hotch asked if he would be guest lecturing at the academy, Strauss' answered that he was completely out of the bureau but we appreciate his years of service. Very parallel to the show and MP if you ask me.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of jww047

    jww047

    [43]Oct 13, 2007
    • member since: 02/08/06
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 2,775
    This episode rocked. I didn't miss Gideon at all. What a creative summary for this episode, it was soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo good.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of phf3947

    phf3947

    [44]Oct 13, 2007
    • member since: 06/06/05
    • level: 71
    • rank: Bad News Bear
    • posts: 3,516
    jww047 wrote:
    What a creative summary for this episode

    Thank you
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of jww047

    jww047

    [45]Oct 14, 2007
    • member since: 02/08/06
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 2,775
    I read in one of the future episode summaries that someone's live from the BAU is going to be in danger. Who is that gonna be?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of phf3947

    phf3947

    [46]Oct 14, 2007
    • member since: 06/06/05
    • level: 71
    • rank: Bad News Bear
    • posts: 3,516
    jww047 wrote:
    I read in one of the future episode summaries that someone's live from the BAU is going to be in danger. Who is that gonna be?

    Please send me a PM on the subject. I'd prefer this information not be posted in the forum until the news has been announced officially by CBS and to help those who prefer to be surprised and as spoiler-free as possible.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of phf3947

    phf3947

    [47]Oct 14, 2007
    • member since: 06/06/05
    • level: 71
    • rank: Bad News Bear
    • posts: 3,516
    Finnegan77 wrote:
    I believe you hit the nail on the head with that statement. This episode was very underwhelming, and I believe it is all in the editing. Cut and paste doesn't always work as we've seen in some previous episodes where some re-shooting and editing has been necessary to explain events that don't happen within the world of the CM. The explanation of the killer's desire to get over his own fears and traumas by keeping meticulous notes about the reactions of his victims is never fully realized. We see him turn off the light in his office to sit in the dark a few times, but we don't get the continual reinforcement we need to understand that this is HIS greatest fear. When he gets transported back to his childhood after dumping his last victim in the pit in the basement it is almost too much because it hasn't been fully fleshed out before.

    If we'd seen a flashback to his abusive mother in his childhood the first time he turns off the lamp, this would've given us a clue as to what was going on with this guy. Then repeat the scene when he turns off the lamp the second time. That would've set up the premise when his wife morphs into his mother. Another thing - Stephanie Venditto being cast as his wife. I can see her as Nurse Brenda in House, but not as Stan Howard's wife in this episode. IMHO, they weren't believable as two people who would be married to each other. Maybe Kathy Bates would've been better.

    He must have had some really special digging equipment down there to effect a perfectly rectangular seven-foot-deep hole in the cellar in just a few hours. Where was the dirt that had been removed from the hole in the first place? Or should one assume he was thinking ahead and dug it before he drowned Patrick Walker? I could try to make some calculations on how many bags of dirt it would take to fill up a hole that size, but that would be just plain silly
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of BAUCTU

    BAUCTU

    [48]Oct 14, 2007
    • member since: 08/30/06
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 1,414
    phf3947 wrote:
    Finnegan77 wrote:
    I believe you hit the nail on the head with that statement. This episode was very underwhelming, and I believe it is all in the editing. Cut and paste doesn't always work as we've seen in some previous episodes where some re-shooting and editing has been necessary to explain events that don't happen within the world of the CM. The explanation of the killer's desire to get over his own fears and traumas by keeping meticulous notes about the reactions of his victims is never fully realized. We see him turn off the light in his office to sit in the dark a few times, but we don't get the continual reinforcement we need to understand that this is HIS greatest fear. When he gets transported back to his childhood after dumping his last victim in the pit in the basement it is almost too much because it hasn't been fully fleshed out before.

    If we'd seen a flashback to his abusive mother in his childhood the first time he turns off the lamp, this would've given us a clue as to what was going on with this guy. Then repeat the scene when he turns off the lamp the second time. That would've set up the premise when his wife morphs into his mother. Another thing - Stephanie Venditto being cast as his wife. I can see her as Nurse Brenda in House, but not as Stan Howard's wife in this episode. IMHO, they weren't believable as two people who would be married to each other. Maybe Kathy Bates would've been better.

    He must have had some really special digging equipment down there to effect a perfectly rectangular seven-foot-deep hole in the cellar in just a few hours. Where was the dirt that had been removed from the hole in the first place? Or should one assume he was thinking ahead and dug it before he drowned Patrick Walker? I could try to make some calculations on how many bags of dirt it would take to fill up a hole that size, but that would be just plain silly


    That pile of bags he had in the room when he brought her in wouldn't have buried her feet.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of EmiliaRomagna

    EmiliaRomagna

    [49]Oct 14, 2007
    • member since: 10/01/06
    • level: 23
    • rank: Close Talker
    • posts: 5,007

    I kept asking myself why she wouldnt just step on the sand

    the velocity he put sand in the "grave" was not really that fast

    I would have just stepped on it and by stepping on it I would have increased the level so at a certain point I could have stepped out... but that's me and I am not afraid of caves (or am I? )

    abother thing that bothered me and I don't remember if they have been talking about... the stick the assasin used to push the young man under water was dropped, how could police not find it and find also the fingerprints? Fingerprints are greacy and should not be wiped away that soon.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of phf3947

    phf3947

    [50]Oct 14, 2007
    • member since: 06/06/05
    • level: 71
    • rank: Bad News Bear
    • posts: 3,516
    BAUCTU wrote:
    That pile of bags he had in the room when he brought her in wouldn't have buried her feet.

    Maybe it was some kind of special dirt that expands to five times it's original size when exposed to air that also allows a person buried in it to breathe five times longer than normal so she won't suffer from brain damage due to lack of oxygen.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of SpencerREid

    SpencerREid

    [51]Oct 14, 2007
    • member since: 02/13/06
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 757

    phf3947 wrote:
    danharr wrote:
    Highlights of the show making Reid face the abandonment issues Gideon brought to the surface from his father and Morgan trying to get Hotch to open up.
    Definitely agree with you on these points. I'd heard we might see more exposition this season about Reid's father, and that he might return to face his son, but it might've been dropped in pursuit of other stories.

    Too bad...I would have loved to see Reid face his father.

    I understand why he left his wife....BUT his son??????

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of scooterstarr

    scooterstarr

    [52]Oct 14, 2007
    • member since: 02/07/07
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 208
    phf3947 wrote:
    BAUCTU wrote:
    That pile of bags he had in the room when he brought her in wouldn't have buried her feet.

    Maybe it was some kind of special dirt that expands to five times it's original size when exposed to air that also allows a person buried in it to breathe five times longer than normal so she won't suffer from brain damage due to lack of oxygen.


    Yeah, I wondered about that. She had to have been buried before the unsub left. And it took quite a while for the BAU to chase him around the building and then after his death to have the subsequent discussion to figure out where she was. But as you say, it appears to be magic dirt, so I have no problem
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of CMJunkie

    CMJunkie

    [53]Oct 15, 2007
    • member since: 02/24/07
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 516

    Hmm.... saw somewhere here... maybe spoiler thread? that maybe he will still face him

    yeah... the whole dirt thing? Not an impressive moment for CM.....

    Edited on 10/15/2007 12:10am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of deadbodygirl

    deadbodygirl

    [54]Oct 15, 2007
    • member since: 04/20/07
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 15

    phf3947 wrote:
    danharr wrote:
    Highlights of the show making Reid face the abandonment issues Gideon brought to the surface from his father and Morgan trying to get Hotch to open up.
    Definitely agree with you on these points. I'd heard we might see more exposition this season about Reid's father, and that he might return to face his son, but it might've been dropped in pursuit of other stories.

    I hope Reid goes out on his own to find his father and confronts him. Maybe we'll find out his Father had his own demons to deal with and that why he left - it still does not make up for leaving a 10 year old alone with very "unstable" mother - but nonetheless Reid needs to confront him.

    Regarding why she did not step on the dirt to get her self out - simply she was too panic - She living her greatest fear and when your in that situation you panic - rational thinking disappears - glorious, secure and rational is the view from the couch

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of EmiliaRomagna

    EmiliaRomagna

    [55]Oct 15, 2007
    • member since: 10/01/06
    • level: 23
    • rank: Close Talker
    • posts: 5,007
    deadbodygirl wrote:

    Regarding why she did not step on the dirt to get her self out - simply she was too panic - She living her greatest fear and when your in that situation you panic - rational thinking disappears - glorious, secure and rational is the view from the couch



    believe it or not, I have the exact same fear and I have been in panic like you said, BUT it tell you that my brain worked automically, getting rid of the things that seemed to bury me. I was in constant motion and so would have been the girl.
    That's why I was not really happy about the scene.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Finnegan77

    Finnegan77

    [56]Oct 15, 2007
    • member since: 01/18/07
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 1,866
    EmiliaRomagna wrote:
    deadbodygirl wrote:

    Regarding why she did not step on the dirt to get her self out - simply she was too panic - She living her greatest fear and when your in that situation you panic - rational thinking disappears - glorious, secure and rational is the view from the couch



    believe it or not, I have the exact same fear and I have been in panic like you said, BUT it tell you that my brain worked automically, getting rid of the things that seemed to bury me. I was in constant motion and so would have been the girl.
    That's why I was not really happy about the scene.


    It also doesn't explain the other logical inconsistencies in the scene - the availability of the hole, the few bags of dirt, the miraculous recovery of the victim. I expect WAY more from Criminal Minds.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of BAUCTU

    BAUCTU

    [57]Oct 15, 2007
    • member since: 08/30/06
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 1,414
    phf3947 wrote:
    BAUCTU wrote:
    That pile of bags he had in the room when he brought her in wouldn't have buried her feet.

    Maybe it was some kind of special dirt that expands to five times it's original size when exposed to air that also allows a person buried in it to breathe five times longer than normal so she won't suffer from brain damage due to lack of oxygen.


    Magic dirt? Cool. Where do I get some?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of BAUCTU

    BAUCTU

    [58]Oct 15, 2007
    • member since: 08/30/06
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 1,414
    EmiliaRomagna wrote:
    deadbodygirl wrote:

    Regarding why she did not step on the dirt to get her self out - simply she was too panic - She living her greatest fear and when your in that situation you panic - rational thinking disappears - glorious, secure and rational is the view from the couch



    believe it or not, I have the exact same fear and I have been in panic like you said, BUT it tell you that my brain worked automically, getting rid of the things that seemed to bury me. I was in constant motion and so would have been the girl.
    That's why I was not really happy about the scene.


    He had drugged her, that mixed with extreme panic could have made logical thought an impossibility. Or the whole scene just totally sucked...
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ariel_panther

    ariel_panther

    [59]Oct 15, 2007
    • member since: 07/08/06
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 35
    Well she was drugged, so i'm guessing that's why she didn't shake it off and step it up. But the hole in the basement actually looked like an elevator shaft to me (the walls looked concrete). But yeah, the amount of earth needed to bury someonw in a whole that size...a truckload more than what he had there.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Buffy_Chick

    Buffy_Chick

    [60]Oct 15, 2007
    • member since: 11/03/03
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 219
    ariel_panther wrote:
    Well she was drugged, so i'm guessing that's why she didn't shake it off and step it up. But the hole in the basement actually looked like an elevator shaft to me (the walls looked concrete). But yeah, the amount of earth needed to bury someonw in a whole that size...a truckload more than what he had there.


    I agree. I figured it was the drugs causing her to be too groggy in the begining for her to be able to step up. And then elevator shaft was my first thought when I saw the hole as well. It would be a rather small elevator shaft though... but that's what it reminded me of.

    so then the only problen if the amount of dirt... *debates actually doing a calculation.* I'd need the exact dementions though, so maybe not.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.