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The Unsubs.

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    jcmjagfan

    [161]Jun 23, 2007
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    I hate locking up anyone for something they might do in the future (except pedophiles -- we MUST err on the side of caution, when it come to children).

    I wish we could comeup with something in-between. "Freedom" and "Jail" Like a fenced-in "residential district" or an island or something, designed like a regular town, with jobs & recreation, police, Clinic/Hospital, etc. Complete with government, responsible to the State or Federal authorities. It would be their job to maintaina nurturing, civilized environment, and not allow the place to degenerate intoa ghetto-gang system like in "Escape from New York".

    They would be free to come and go in that area, free to have visitors, but unable to leave without an approved escort, who accepts responsibility for their actions. That could be a family member, counselor, sponsor, security guard or police -- depending on the person & situation.As long as they're with an approved escort, they could be gone for a coupleweeks. If they screw up, they get their leave-privileges revoked -- and the person who escorted them gets fined &/or community service or jail time -- or reprimand/demotion if PD or security.

    Edited on 08/24/2007 6:58pm
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    Finnegan77

    [162]Jun 24, 2007
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    jcmjagfan wrote:
    I hate locking up anyone for something they might do in the future (except pedophiles -- we MUST err on the side of caution, when it come to children).

    Except we've been talking about Ted Bryer, and other killers, so we're not talking about locking them up for something they might do, but keeping them locked up for something they've already done. Many killers get life imprisonment with no possibility of parole. Serial killers, even killers with problems, need to have the same punishment. I have no problem with getting help for people with real psychological problems, I just don't want them released into freedom when some well-meaning individual pronounces them "cured".

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    jcmjagfan

    [163]Jun 24, 2007
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    Finnegan77 wrote:

    jcmjagfan wrote:
    I hate locking up anyone for something they might do in the future (except pedophiles -- we MUST err on the side of caution, when it come to children).

    Except we've been talking about Ted Bryer, and other killers, so we're not talking about locking them up for something they might do, but keeping them locked up for something they've already done. Many killers get life imprisonment with no possibility of parole. Serial killers, even killers with problems, need to have the same punishment. I have no problem with getting help for people with real psychological problems, I just don't want them released into freedom when some well-meaning individual pronounces them "cured".

    _My Bad. Temporary Brain Death due to 2-yr-old. A 3 day visit & it'll take we a week to recoup._

    You're right, of course. We agree on that point 100%.

    Edited on 08/24/2007 6:58pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    Finnegan77

    [164]Jun 24, 2007
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    Onto "The Popular Kids" with Cory Bridges, the sheriff's son, as the killer. Was he really all about trying to get into the cheerleader's pants, or did he consider himself a cut above regular people as in Nietzsche's philosophy?
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  • Avatar of jcmjagfan

    jcmjagfan

    [165]Jun 24, 2007
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    A Little of both.

    This is going to be a little ragged -- I was almost throughwhen my ditzy cursor bounced & close the tab on me, so I'm starting over.

    I think he wants to believe he's smarter & crazier, but I don't think he's any smarter than the average schmoe. He's certainly no Ted Bundy or Charles Manson, (Norman Bates). I think he just has an over-the-top-case of PK syndrome. (Preacher's Kid) They're usually the meanest little he*l-raisers in the school, trying to prove they're not little goody-two-shoes.

    I only wish I could see him in a jail cell with Mongo's bigger, meaner brother. For those who don't get the Blazing Saddles reference, insert McClain from Die Hard having a REALLY bad day.

    This epi reminded me of an old Jimmy Stewart movie, Rope:
    (per IMBd.com) Two young men strangle their "inferior" clas*mate,and invite his friends and family to a dinner party as a means to challenge the "perfection" of their crime. All while the body is still hidden the apartment.

    Edited on 08/24/2007 7:00pm
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    smartchick

    [166]Jun 25, 2007
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    Interesting points.

    The explanation for the crime was one aspect of this episode that bothered me -- Cory's MO was never clear to me. Possibly:

    1. His motivation was simply to get into Cherish's pants. Granted, people have committed murder for even shallower reasons, but why go through so much planning and risk just to get laid? I figured Morgan spat out the "horny kid" line mainly to ruffle Cory's feathers so that he could become an easy target for graceful tackling.

    2. Cory, like every other snotty prep in town, harbored prejudice against Zissou and his followers because they were the "outcasts". Maybe he was getting a huge kick out of painting Zissou into a cold-blooded murderer. It's a rather extreme way to pick on somebody, but there are people out there for whom I wouldn't put it past them to gleefully ruin somebody's lifebecause of some petty excuse. I know Cory mentioned that he'd hung out with Zissou before, but maybe his intentions were to scope out the area and lay out the defining details for his plan.

    3. Our baby unsub wanted to prove he was capable of committing the perfect crime. By attempting amateur profiling techniques and strategically laying out the evidence, he was proving to himself that his intelligence surpassed that of the profilers. (Fat chance! Talk about a massive underestimation of our team.)

    4. The kid was going through a rebellious phase and figured that knocking off one of the town's star football players would be a brilliant way to piss off his dad. After all, his dad was the sherriff! Ideally, law enforcement kids and church officials' kids are supposed to be picture-perfect examples of angelic behavior. I think those expectations and pressures are one of the reasons we tend to see those kids acting out the most. Anyway, though rebelling teenagers usually want to see their parents' hair standing on end, Cory probably didn't feel like taking an extended vacationto prison. All he wanted was that mental sense of satisfaction.

    5. For whatever reason, Cory held a grudge against that particular football player. Remember, according to him he never meant to kill Cherish. Maybe we're talking about a rivalry, resentment over a humiliation, or a feeling of inferiority that drove Cory to smash the guy's head in.

    6. He simply wanted to play God for a day or two.

    Okay, maybe I'm overthinking the whole issue. Junior could've just got bored one Friday night.

    Edited on 06/25/2007 8:28am
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    Finnegan77

    [167]Jun 25, 2007
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    No, I think you're right in many aspects. Cory did believe he was smarter - on a different plane from the people around him - which is essentially Nietzche's idea. His man v. superman philosophy says that some people shouldn't have to obey the rules of the society around them because they are above it all. While I doubt Cory fully grasped this, he did want to prove (to himself, and probably eventually to his father and the FBI) that he was smarter than anyone else. He was so far above the rival football player that he decided to make him his victim (Cherish was collateral damage.) And Zizzo and his gang were his other victims - placed perfectly in the path of his father, who fell for it hook, line and sinker.

    The involvement of the BAU was the chance of a lifetime for young Cory - he could "in your face" not just the town and his father, but the entire law enforcement establishment with his "perfect crime."Even his choice of vocabulary (calling Reid "your boy") showed his belief in his own superiority. To have Morgan minimizing his wonderful crime as an attempt to get into the cheerleader's pants was the last straw. Beautiful juxtaposition of the brilliance and experience of the BAU v. the supremely over-confident fledgling serial killer.

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    jcmjagfan

    [168]Jun 25, 2007
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    Perhaps, an accumulation of factors? We've said before, once things start falling apart all it takes is one small stressor to send the Unsub over the top.

    -- Was Cory disenchanted with Zissou(sp?), or washe kicked out as a "wanna be"?
    -- Was he planning on "solving" the murder of the football star, and being seen as a hero by the town &the cheerleader?
    -- Was anyone else correct in guessing the Unsub the minute you saw him in the Sheriff's office with those particular books? I thought it was a little obvious, and couldn't figureout why Reid didn't get it sooner. But then, again, I did see Rope.

    Edited on 08/24/2007 7:00pm
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    Finnegan77

    [169]Jun 26, 2007
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    I don't really see the connection with "Rope" beyond the we're smarter than you mentality. Rope involved a conspiracy in a group of students with a dynamic leader and fell apart as all conspiracies do eventually. Guilt also played a major part, and the body was hidden whereas the football player's body was not. Cory was not the leader of his group - I imagine that the football player he killed was. Cory would have been seen as the wannabe.

    I imagine Cory was setting himself up as the crime solver, Smartchick. He made sure he was on hand to give out the clues at the appropriate time. Taking the gun from the sheriff's office tells us he also was figuring out that the BAU was on to him. Why else take the weapon out to Zizzo's place?

    Cory as a Zizzo follower? Nyah, Cory wanted to lead, not to follow. He found out just enough about them to set them up, and not enough to find out that they weren't bad-movie-type satanists who made blood sacrifices.

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    smartchick

    [170]Jun 26, 2007
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    jcmjagfan: Was anyone else correct in guessing the Unsub the minute you saw him in the Sheriff's office with those particular books? I thought it was a little obvious, and couldn't figureout why Reid didn't get it sooner. But then, again, I did see Rope.

    To be honest, I really don't try to read into who the unsub might be as the new episode progresses because I figure, "Hey, this experience will only be new once, so I'm just gonna relax and enjoy the ride." I'm more content with sitting back, stretching out, watching the team crack the case, and then analyzing the whole scenario. Watching the episode for the second time, however, did make me realize the obviousness of Cory's guilt.

    You gotta know too that technically, this was the first episode of the show that I ever saw. I caught it on TV by accident. I didn't quite understand how to interpret the show's premise. During its premiere and subsequent couple of episodes, my family spent those two months dodging a hurricane and then dealing with the damage, so Criminal Minds wasn't a priority at the time!

    You want to know exactly why the Cory factor went over Reid's head? Reid was only being polite and keeping his mouth shut. He wanted to make sure that we the viewers could enjoy an extra twenty minutes of screen time. What a considerate guy.

    And Morgan needed another tackle dummy.

    Edited on 06/26/2007 8:25am
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    jcmjagfan

    [171]Jun 26, 2007
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    In Rope only the 2 smarty-pants were in on it; and the cheerleader's bodywas hidden. Although if he really wanted to prove how smart he was, he would've hid her body right under his dad's nose -- somewhere in the office or basement or attic. That would've creeped the town out.
    Edited on 08/24/2007 7:01pm
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    Finnegan77

    [172]Jun 27, 2007
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    smartchick wrote:
    You gotta know too that technically, this was the first episode of the show that I ever saw. I caught it on TV by accident. I didn't quite understand how to interpret the show's premise. During its premiere and subsequent couple of episodes, my family spent those two months dodging a hurricane and then dealing with the damage, so Criminal Minds wasn't a priority at the time!

    Interesting that this was your first ep! I watched this show from the beginning, so I "got" the characters and their various foibles. It must have been interesting trying to figure out the dynamics mid-stream.

    I thought Cory was fairly clever, he just thought too highly of himself to pull it off and wanted to "inject himself into the investigation". Lately, the disappearance and murder of a pregnant woman has been in the news. When they showed the townsfolk lining up outside the sheriff's office to voluteer for a search, this episode popped into my head, and I wondered if the "unsub" was there in line, waiting to "find" some key piece of evidence.

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    BAUCTU

    [173]Jul 1, 2007
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    Moving on to Blood Hungry and Eddy Mays. He had bee hospitalised for mental health problems in the past and had a mother more intersted in preserving her 'good status' then being a good mum, but that's the same for a lot of kids and they don't kill people insuch a gruesome manner. So what made Eddy the killer he was?
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    Finnegan77

    [174]Jul 1, 2007
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    BAUCTU wrote:
    Moving on to Blood Hungry and Eddy Mays. He had bee hospitalised for mental health problems in the past and had a mother more intersted in preserving her 'good status' then being a good mum, but that's the same for a lot of kids and they don't kill people insuch a gruesome manner. So what made Eddy the killer he was?

    I'm not sure there is an anwer to this one, my friend. Eddy just happened to be the one who didn't follow the odds. We've heard of them in the past - the disturbed woman who went into the elementary school and shot up the joint springs to mind. As Dr. Reid said about his mother in FK2 - when these people are not on their meds they will rapidly come apart and the vast majority are much more likely to hurt themselves rather than anyone else. Eddy was the exception that proved the rule.

    His mother's culpability is another story entirely. She needs to go to jail for many, many years for impeding a federal investigation and as an accessory to kidnapping.

    Edit: Format. Sometimes I am a dummy.

    Edited on 07/01/2007 10:05am
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    jcmjagfan

    [175]Jul 1, 2007
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    _Format?_Huh?_What?

    I forget, how long did his Mom know about his little hobby? I think she should AT_LEASTgo down as accessory after the fact. Preferably bofore & conspirator with, and with a felony murder, that's as good as doing the deed yourself. She can put that in her "Who's Who" bio!!

    The Unsub was sick, she was just a cold-hearted b!tch. I know she could be charged in some states under the "Depraved indifference" laws.

    Edited on 08/24/2007 7:02pm
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    smartchick

    [176]Jul 2, 2007
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    The most vivid detail I can remember about this episode was how that little song "This is my Father's World" danced around incessantly in my head for about a week!

    Eddy went off the college, and, like many other students with controlling, overprotective parents, partied with great gusto. (Or, how did Garcia put it? Like an 80s clubber?) He went beserk because of a mental breakdown induced by methamphetamines and rock cocaine, so this is one instance where we can't blame inherited genetic traits for the psychosis. His extensive studying of comparative religion completed his delusional state.

    Eddy's mommy, your classic Stepford Wife prototype, knew full well that her son was seriously ill. Her efforts to conceal his guilt had nothing to do with protecting her son. She was protecting herself. After all, word getting out about her son turning into a cannibalistic serial killer might put a dent in her reputation at the country club. However, putting her self-centered motivations aside, I don't think she was entirely unconcerned with Eddy. He was her child, so it's not that she didn't feel any love for him that would push her to keep him from an enternal commitment at a psych hospital. Love for Eddy wasn't at the forefront of her actions, but we can't say it didn't play a role. Either way, I found her to be despicable, especially when I realized she'd hidden that poor kid out in the woods. Was she leaving him there to die?

    His drinking blood to "encounter the divine" and viewing the boy as a messianic figure probably have other psychological implications besides those rooted in his choice of study. Given how his mother raised him, he probably grew up suffering from an inferiority complex. Those kind of parents make their children feel as if they are never good enough and that they must constantly walk on eggshells. Unconditional love that one would ideally expect from a parent? Forget it. Love and acceptance become largely performance-based, so personal worth must be earned. Consequently, stress and low self-esteem run rampant. He kept desperately saying, "I've brought you an angel!" To me, it sounded as if he was trying to redeem himself as a human being through accomplishing some great spiritual feat.

    Edited on 07/02/2007 8:22am
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    jcmjagfan

    [177]Jul 2, 2007
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    smartchick wrote:

    *EDIT*_**BIG_EDIT**_:lol_Good stuff, too
    Unconditional love that one would ideally expect from a parent? Forget it. Love and acceptance become largely performance-based, so personal worth must be earned. Consequently, stress and low self-esteem run rampant. He kept desperately saying, "I've brought you an angel!" To me, it sounded as if he was trying to redeem himself as a human being through accomplishing some great spiritual feat.

    Everything you said was great & to the point.
    I don't even think I have anything to nit-pic__WOW!!, you are good_

    So, WARNING: Slightly OT Reid stuff here.
    Maybe the reason Reid is able to have a somewhat normal relationship with others, inspite of the drawbacks of genius/schizo/shmuck of a papachildhood, is that Reid's mom gave him absolutely unconditional love. Except for any conditions forced on her by her illness. In the flash-backs in BG/Rel, & his memories in FK, he seems to be perfectlyhappy curled up beside her listening to her read to him.

    BACK ON TOPIC: Is that the saving grace that helps keep genius from tipping over into madness? The one thing that stretches across all ethnic, social, religious, groups is emotions. I'm not talking about just parental love. But at thatcritical moment when the stressor hits the "event horizon" so to speak.

    Edited on 08/24/2007 7:03pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    BAUCTU

    [178]Jul 8, 2007
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    Finnegan77 wrote:

    Edit: Format. Sometimes I am a dummy.

    Only sometimes?

    So next up, we have What Fresh Hell. A very good episode, with a subject that we all need to be very aware of. I liked Gideon in this one, showing just how close to the surface he keeps his emotions and sometimes they just spill out.

    Edited on 07/08/2007 1:22pm
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    jcmjagfan

    [179]Jul 8, 2007
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    I don't remember much about the Unsub inparticular. Just that this was the opposite of the typical "stranger danger" school lecture. Someone who looks normal, rather like he "belongs" on the street or playground. Uses a lure of some type, like looking for a lost puppy or even a lostchild. The pedophile who is driven by uncontrollable desires, but who is not out of control.

    Edited on 08/24/2007 7:03pm
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    phf3947

    [180]Jul 9, 2007
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    BAUCTU wrote:
    So next up, we have What Fresh Hell. A very good episode, with a subject that we all need to be very aware of. I liked Gideon in this one, showing just how close to the surface he keeps his emotions and sometimes they just spill out.

    This was definitely a good episode, but it's only 12 of 24. With production starting today on Season 3, we need to step it up some so we'll be all caught up by the time Season 4 starts
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