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TNT (ended 1999)

Why do technomages try to appear like wizards?

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  • Avatar of dregj

    dregj

    [1]Feb 26, 2007
    • member since: 01/02/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 343
    My huge complaint and one i held against the technomage B5 episode ,is the whole idea of a technomage in the first place.

    "They use technology to create the appearance of magic"
    okay,but why? why would a rational person ever do that
    unless he was on stage in vegas.
    If everyone knows they just use machines
    and are not really magical it seems even more pointless.
    It seemed like an attempt to build up the fanstasy/mythos elements of B5 and of course some more JRR Tolkien references
    but it was ill considered and utterly pointless

    please tell me the point of them
    i love the show but
    i never got the technomage thing at all
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  • Avatar of dregj

    dregj

    [2]Feb 27, 2007
    • member since: 01/02/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 343
    tell me im wrong tell me why they were great
    I feel like im the only one who doesnt get it
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  • Avatar of KoshN1

    KoshN1

    [3]Feb 27, 2007
    • member since: 06/19/05
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 22

    dregj wrote:
    My huge complaint and one i held against the technomage B5 episode ,is the whole idea of a technomage in the first place.

    "They use technology to create the appearance of magic"
    okay,but why? Why would a rational person ever do that
    unless he was on stage in vegas.

    They like to remain mysterious.  What you said above is just what Elric told Sheridan.  He didn't tell Sheridan everything about the Technomages and their history.  Part of the Technomage Code is SECRECY.  He told Sheridan only enough to enlist his aid.  Why the Technomages were there and why they were leaving and where they were going is not explained anywhere but in the Babylon 5 novels. We only got a tidbit in Babylon 5 and slightly more in Crusade.  We would have gotten more in Crusade if it hadn't got cancelled after 13 episodes.

    dregj wrote:
    If everyone knows they just use machines
    and are not really magical it seems even more pointless.

    Everyone does not know that they just use machines.  Also, they don't just use machines.  Some people think they know things about the Technomages, but what they actually know is very little.  There are hierarchies in the Technomage order, and a vast majority of the Technomages themselves don't even know the true source of their tech (their biotech implants they receive upon initiation as a full mage).  In fact, very few outside the ruling council ("The Circle") knows the source of their tech or the purpose intended for them by the creators of their tech.


    dregj wrote:
    It seemed like an attempt to build up the fanstasy/mythos elements of B5 and of course some more JRR Tolkien references but it was ill considered and utterly pointless

    please tell me the point of them
    i love the show but
    i never got the technomage thing at all

    You don't have the big picture.  All this is background is given in the novel trilogy "The Passing of the Techno-mages."  Also, the novel "The Shadow Within" is a prequel for "The Passing of the Techno-mages."

    Here are the essential B5 Novels:

    Title: Book #7 The Shadow Within
    Author: Cavelos, Jeanne
    Timeframe: 11/2256 - 01/2257
    Isbn1: 0-440-22348-2
    Copyright1: April 1997
    Publisher1: Dell
    Isbn2: 0-345-45218-6
    Copyright2: December 2002
    Publisher2: DelRey

    Title: Book #9 To Dream in the City of Sorrows
    Author: Drennan, Kathryn M.
    Timeframe Marcus in 10/2260, recalling events of 1/2259-9/2260.
    Isbn1: 0-440-22354-7
    Copyright1: July 1997
    Publisher1: Dell
    Isbn2: 0-345-45219-4
    Copyright2: July 2003
    Publisher2: DelRey

    THE PSI CORPS TRILOGY:

    Title: Dark Genesis - The Birth of the Psi Corps
    Author: Keyes, J. Gregory
    Timeframe: 2115-2189
    Isbn1: 0-345-42715-7
    Copyright1: October 1998
    Publisher1: DelRey

    Title: Deadly Relations - Bester Ascendant
    Author: Keyes, J. Gregory
    Timeframe: 2189-2258
    Isbn1: 0-345-42716-5
    Copyright1: March 1999
    Publisher1: DelRey

    Title: Final Reckoning - The Fate of Bester
    Author: Keyes, J. Gregory
    Timeframe: 2271-2281
    Isbn1: 0-345-42717-3
    Copyright1: October 1999
    Publisher1: DelRey

    THE CENTAURI TRILOGY:

    Title: Legions of Fire - Book I - The Long Night of Centauri Prime
    Author: David, Peter
    Timeframe: ~10/2262-12/2266. Dates corrected to line up with A Call to Arms and Crusade.
    Isbn1: 0-345-42718-1
    Copyright1: December 1999
    Publisher1: DelRey

    Title: Legions of Fire - Book II - Armies of Light and Dark
    Author: David, Peter
    Timeframe: 12/14/2266-04/18/2272. Dates corrected to line up with A Call to Arms and Crusade.
    Isbn1: 0-345-42719-X
    Copyright1: May 2000
    Publisher1: DelRey

    Title: Legions of Fire - Book III - Out of the Darkness
    Author: David, Peter
    Timeframe: 05/14/2273-01/21/2277. Dates corrected to line up with A Call to Arms and Crusade.
    Isbn1: 0-345-42720-3
    Copyright1: November 2000
    Publisher1: DelRey

    THE TECHNOMAGE TRILOGY:

    Title: The Passing of the Techno-Mages - Book I - Casting Shadows
    Author: Cavelos, Jeanne
    Timeframe: 11/2258-12/31/2258
    Isbn1: 0-345-42721-1
    Copyright1: March 2001
    Publisher1: DelRey

    Title: The Passing of the Techno-Mages - Book II - Summoning Light
    Author: Cavelos, Jeanne
    Timeframe: 1/2259-2/2259
    Isbn1: 0-345-42722-X
    Copyright1: July 2001
    Publisher1: DelRey

    Title: The Passing of the Techno-Mages - Book III - Invoking Darkness
    Author: Cavelos, Jeanne
    Timeframe: 8/2260-2261
    Isbn1: 0-345-43833-7
    Copyright1: December 2001
    Publisher1: DelRey

    You have a lot of good stuff ahead of you in the novels.  Personally, I found the Technomage trilogy hard to put down.  There are a couple of mistakes here and there in the novels.  They're not 100% perfect, but the ones above are considered canon additions to the B5 universe.   The only ones (for me) that it took a little dedication to get through were Book #9 To Dream in the City of Sorrows and Dark Genesis - The Birth of the Psi Corps.  However, all of these books are worth reading and add a lot to the B5 universe.

    Edited on 02/27/2007 8:37pm
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  • Avatar of dregj

    dregj

    [4]Feb 28, 2007
    • member since: 01/02/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 343
    they dont know the power or origin of there own tech?
    now that does intrigue me.
    How long has the order been around
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  • Avatar of KoshN1

    KoshN1

    [5]Feb 28, 2007
    • member since: 06/19/05
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 22

    dregj wrote:
    they dont know the power or origin of there own tech? now that does intrigue me.

    The five members of the ruling council, The Circle, know.  They administer who gets initiated as a full mage (and therefore receives the full tech implants).  Almost all members outside The Circle do not know.  Those few outside The Circle who know, are sworn to secrecy on this matter, and the penalty for disobedience is flaying (surgical removal of their tech), which if it's done not immediately after initiation as a full mage, means certain death.  It's a very grisly way to go.  The tech permeates a mage's entire body, like a secondary nervous system, and then some.  The tech is a living entity.

    dregj wrote:
     How long has the order been around

    At least a thousand years.

    Read the books.  There's a ton of good stuff in there.  You have no idea how complex, interesting and powerful the Technomages are.  Only two mages have known the true extent of their capabilities.  Galen was the first, and the other is dead.  I've read the Technomage trilogy twice, and all of the other books once.  My next re-read is going to be the Centauri trilogy.  Galen, Kane, Gwynne and Finian (all Technomages) are in that trilogy as well.

    BTW, Elric (Babylon 5 - The Geometry of Shadows) and Alwyn (Crusade - The Long Road) are in the Technomage trilogy, which is essentially the story of Galen.  The Technomage trilogy weaves all through B5 episodes The Geometry of Shadows, Interludes and Examinations, and Z'ha'dum.  It also intersects Gideon's and Galen's flashbacks in Crusade - The Path of Sorrows, and Gideon's flashbacks in a few of the other Crusade episodes.

    Also, in Crusade - Racing the Night, when Galen says he has no surviving enemies, at all, he's right.

    Edited on 02/28/2007 6:18pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of dregj

    dregj

    [6]Mar 13, 2007
    • member since: 01/02/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 343
    the mystery
    surronding the technomages are many I realase i already asked this but why do they pretend to be wizards?

    Is it part of the mystery

    I think my major problem is that im supposed to think of them as a cool and intriging bunch
    when they just bug me

    my predjudice i think
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  • Avatar of KoshN1

    KoshN1

    [8]Mar 19, 2007
    • member since: 06/19/05
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 22

    dregj wrote:
    ...but why do they pretend to be wizards?

    Who says they're pretending? That's part of what they are. Any technology that's sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable from magic, and they like to be mysterious. They don't want to be completely understood. They are superior beings, and like being seen as such. Not all who join the technomages are seeking the same thing. Some are seeking power and wealth. Some seek to do good, to make things better in the galaxy. Some are healers. Some just like provoking awe and wonder in others, like magicians.

    "The Passing of the Techno-mages - Casting Shadows" page 11....

    The Technomage Code (the seven principles of technomancy):

     Solidarity

     Secrecy

     Mystery

     Magic

     Science

     Knowledge

     Good

    "Do not try the patience of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - Elric, "The Geometry of Shadows"

    "The Passing of the Techno-mages - Casting Shadows" page 5 ( November 2258 ).... "Long had Kosh watched them, the three hundred and thirty and three such assemblages (i.e. 1000 years). He had watched as the fabulists (i.e. what the Vorlons call the technomages) gradually transformed from anarchy to order." The Code is the way the Technomages imposed order upon themselves.

    To understand the Technomages, you need to read "The Passing of the Techno-mages"

    "Casting Shadows"

    "Summoning Light"

    "Invoking Darkness"

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  • Avatar of mischa2uk

    mischa2uk

    [9]Apr 27, 2008
    • member since: 02/25/07
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 9
    dregj wrote:
    My huge complaint and one i held against the technomage B5 episode ,is the whole idea of a technomage in the first place.

    "They use technology to create the appearance of magic"
    okay,but why? why would a rational person ever do that
    unless he was on stage in vegas.
    If everyone knows they just use machines
    and are not really magical it seems even more pointless.
    It seemed like an attempt to build up the fanstasy/mythos elements of B5 and of course some more JRR Tolkien references
    but it was ill considered and utterly pointless

    please tell me the point of them
    i love the show but
    i never got the technomage thing at all
    Perhaps it is because the Technomages have a dirty little secret. Some years ago JMS published on a website that no longer exits the scripts of episodes of Crusade which were never made because of the series' cancellation. In one of those script was made clear to the audience/reader that the Technomages used Shadowtech; they certainly wouldn't want that to be common knowledge. The same revelation was made in the Technomage trilogy which I think was written much later.
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  • Avatar of beowulf579

    beowulf579

    [10]May 29, 2009
    • member since: 06/07/05
    • level: 53
    • rank: Commander in Chief
    • posts: 1,151
    I would use it all with a comparison of the Vorlons. The Vorlons appear like mystical beings to the younger races for everything from fear to reverance.
    The Technomages might do it for the same reasons. To strike that cord in all ppl (if not all aliens too) of something powerful, fearful and mystical.
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