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Clara and river song !!!

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    Sofos

    [1]Apr 18, 2013
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    so i must say that i m very confused about something. is clara Dr river song ??? and this is how they begin their journey??? i season 5 we see the doctor traaveling in the future and see river song , she knows him cause its her past but doctor doesnt know her cause he is in his future.


    season 6 doctor finds again river song and now the doctor knows her cause he is in his past but she doesnt know him cause he is in her future.



    already confused !!! anayway we know that they meed and both are in the present. so is this the present. or i m mistaken ...



    thanks a lot sorry about the spelling and please telm what you think.


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  • Avatar of dragon22a

    dragon22a

    [2]Apr 19, 2013
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    Clara is something new, she's not River Song though.


    River Song was born Melody Pond, the daughter of Amy and Rory. She was born on Demons Run while Amy was being held captive by the Silence. Because Melody was conceived in the Tardis as it was traveling through the time vortex her DNA had the foundations of Time Lord DNA. The Silence performed procedures on Amy to alter Melody's DNAso she was born a full Time Lord. While Amy was later saved by the Doctor and Rory, Kovarian escaped with Melody.


    Baby Melody was brought to Florida around 1960 and was kept in an Orphanage looked over by a caretaker who had been mind wiped by the Silence so many times he did not even know the year. She was programmed with one mission in mind, to kill the Doctor. Eventually she escaped captivity in 1969 and made her way to NY around 6 months later. By then she had contracted a terminal illness and was dying. Instead she regenerated into a toddler.


    Somehow, the toddler made her way to the UK and grew up as the best friend of Amy and Rory, going by the shortened nameMels. She was likely able to maintain a youthful appearance due to her Time Lord DNA much like the Doctor. She was a trouble maker and was basically parented by Amy and Rory. The three were so close that Amy would name her daughter after Mels, not knowing she was actually naming her daughter after her daughter. Mels always had the desire to meet the Doctor and eventually got her wish


    Amy and Rory contacted theDoctor to see where he was in his search for Melody when Mels showed up and Hijacked the Tardis at gun point and forcing the Doctor to take her to Germany in the 40s where they crashed into Hitler's office and Hitler ended up accidentally shooting Mels. That is when Mel's revealed her identity and regenerated into River Song. She then tried to kill the Doctor but later saved him and took on her new name.


    Sorry for the biography but it does serve a purpose. As far as we have been shown, and as far as River has stated, she has only regenerated twice, one being Melody to Mels and the other being Mels to River Song. Rivers Life has been accounted for so she is likely not Clara.


    Clara is something new. A girl who has lived three lives, each crossing paths with the Doctor. He met her as Oswin Oswald in the future, Clara Oswin in the past, and now Clara Oswald in the present. of course this is not the first time the Doctor has met two identical people, he met Gwyneth and later her distant descendant Gwen (both played by Eve Myles), and he met Adeola Oshodi and later met her first cousin Martha Jones (both played by Freema Agyeman). Of course those were just because the actresses impressed the producers in the initial roles that they were brought back as full characters and their similarity in appearance was just explained away.


    Clara is a planned mystery though, The Doctor has likely investigated as to whether the three versions he has encountered are related in some way, and even if they were it would not explain how they all use the same saying. Clara Oswin and Oswin Oswald seemed to cross paths with the Doctor randomly while someone (possibly River) gave Clara Oswald the number to the Tardis phone.


    I hope that helps


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  • Avatar of micaba

    micaba

    [3]Apr 21, 2013
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    if it didn't help her it's sure as hell helped meXD 1.i started waching doctor who from the middle of season 6 so i didn't get some things..may i ask when did dr frist wiseded river in prison and why? 2.and when amy got stuck in the past with rory by weeping angels,and he said that he cant travel in that day because bla bla bla,why didn't he travel 2-3 years(or 2-3 months) earlier and waited in manhattan to be with them?(and just hide when 'he' arives,and leaves,so he so he couldn't change anything)is there any other reason beside he is the doctor who must use his every second to help people or what? (ps:sory for bad english))XD) 3.can clara be his granddaughter or mother,i nodest that in the episode The Rings of Akhaten he told clara that he was last there with his granddaughter? or it's something entirely different?

    Edited on 04/21/2013 11:20am
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    dragon22a

    [4]Apr 21, 2013
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    1. From the time the Doctor has met River, she was a mystery. He met her for the first time since the Library at the crash of the Byzantium. The Doctor discovered that she was actually in prison and working with the Clerics in hopes of getting a pardon. When asked why she was iin prison, all the Doctor was told was that she killed the greatest man in the universe.


    In truth River was in Stormcage prison because she "killed" the Doctor. In the first episode of season 6 River, Amy, and Rory were summoned to the Valley of the Dead in Utah. There they met the Doctor. As they sat by a lake side they saw an astronaut come from the water. The Doctor told them to stay where they were and went down to the lake to meet the Astronaut. The Astronaut them raised its hand and shot the Doctor with a beam. The Doctor began to regenerate but the Astronaut shot him again, killing him for good. Rory, having spent time as a roman soldier, saw it fit to give the Doctor a sort of Viking funeral and burn the body so no one could get hold of a Time Lord body. Amy, Rory, and River then went to a local Diner where they were surprised to find the Doctor waiting there. He was a younger version by some 200 years and was invited just like the rest of them only he did not know that he was actually invited by himself.


    Now what was not revealed until later was that the Astronaut was actually River, younger than the one on the beach that same day. After what happened in the forties River became an archaeologist since that would be the best way to find the Doctor again. During her studies she was captured by Kovarian and placed in the suit, which was in control. At the beach side, River tried to prevent going through with killing the Doctor by splintering time and creating a universewhere all time happened at once. Eventually the Doctor convinced her that this had to happen, he even married her in the process, whispering in her ear what the Doctor said was his name. In truth however, the Doctor was actually not the Doctor but the Teseselector, a robotic ship which could be piloted by miniature people. The real Doctor was safe inside and while the ship burned, he escaped in the Tardis. That was in fact what the Doctor whispered in River's ear.


    The Doctor had done this so he could retreat back into the shadows because he had become too big and known in the universe, so much so that the Silence wanted him dead and he was feared by many cultures. Anyway, to the rest of the universe, River had killed the Doctor and was arrested and placed in Stormcage. The Doctor would visit and take her on adventures and she would escape on her own. After the Byzantium River was pardoned and became a professor, something which hurt the Doctor since River was a professor when he met her in the Library, the day she died.


    2. The temporal instability caused by Angels swept back beyond the 30's where Amy and Rory were sent back to. The Angels had been taking people from that time and sending them even further back in time by decades, placing them in the hotel and feeding off of there time temporal energy as they grew old and died. The Doctor said that that period of time was to unstable to take the Tardis back there without tearing a hole in the universe, It is likely that because of the actions of the angels, that instability went back decades meaning that he could not go back and wait. Now that is just a theory of mine. Another reason why he cannot go back is that by going back to be with Rory and their names being on that grave stone, Amy and Rory, as well as their fates, became a fixed point in time which the Doctor cannot alter.


    3. The granddaughter that the Doctor was mentioning was Susan. While there have been theories as to whether she actually was his granddaughter, since there does not seem to be any depiction of the Doctor's children, she was considered as such. She was a Time Lord like the Doctor and travelled with him in his first incarnation, running away from Galifrey with him. On a trip to an alternate future where the Daleks had taken over earth, Susan met and fell in love with a freedom fighter. While she was willing to leave him behind, the Doctor realized that this was a chance to be happy. He locked the door to the Tardis and through the intercom said his goodbyes, leaving her behind. It is doubtful that Clara is Susan though. While she potentially could regenerate, Clara simply seems to be three different, yet identical people.


    As for the Doctors mother, she is a mystery in herself. Some theorize that the woman in white that was seen in the End of Time, the one that was depicted amongst Rassilon and the Timelords was the Doctors mother. I believe though that the woman was Romana, a fellow timelord and former companion of the Fourth Doctor. In the spin off media which while is of questionable canon is the only depictions of the Eighth Doctor's adventures, Romana became President of Galifrey and would have likely been displaced by Rassilon and condemned when she spoke out against him. Her appearance as the woman in white being a result to her connection to the White Guardian and the Key of Time. Clara does not seem to have any Timelord characteristics. However, perhaps she does have some connection to the Guardians which may have the power to do this to her.


    Once again, some of these are only theories and I am sure other people have their own. I hope it helps explain things though. Clara does seem to be something new though she may have some connection to something else like the Guardians.

    Edited on 04/21/2013 7:32pm
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  • Avatar of micaba

    micaba

    [5]Apr 22, 2013
    • member since: 05/27/09
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    oh i will ask you a lot moreXDbut i just dont have time now to writeXD
    PS:gugle converted dauther into motherXDnot my intention,i wanted to spel the whole text rightbut nice info on the mother..
    3.i never ment for him to alter there future,just to spend some time with them..
    like into 50s and just talk and laugh with them..
    thanks once again
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  • Avatar of micaba

    micaba

    [6]Apr 22, 2013
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UJtDefk_YI and this is a cool lvideo abaut river song in linear time...
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  • Avatar of micaba

    micaba

    [7]Apr 27, 2013
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    The Tenth Doctor saved her consciousness digitally to the Library's computer system CAL, granting her a form of immortality. (TV: Forest of the Dead) (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/River_Song)so can he sometimes in some kind of way wisit her wisit her???upload himself for an hour or something??XD

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncymevPD9ow
    and who are the 3 children at the end??or do i need to watch the whole episode?

    ""When you run with the Doctor, it feels like it'll never end. But however hard you try you can't run forever. Everybody knows that everybody dies and nobody knows it like the Doctor. But I do think that all the skies of all the worlds might just turn dark if he ever for one moment, accepts it. Everybody knows that everybody dies. But not every day. Not today. Some days are special. Some days are so, so blessed. Some days, nobody dies at all. Now and then, every once in a very long while, every day in a million days, when the wind stands fair, and the Doctor comes to call... everybody lives."
    just love this,need to poste it
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    dragon22a

    [8]Apr 27, 2013
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    While River is saved in the core of the Library, the Doctor can't really go back there because the whole planet has been overrun by the Vashta Nerada. The creatures emerged from the books in the Library, all of which had been produced using the wood from the their forests. The Doctor made a deal with them, give him one day to transport the humans he saved from CAL off the planet and the planet is the Vashta Nerada's to have. So unless the Doctor can access Cal using Wi-Fi from the TARDIS, he can't see her again because it would violate that treaty.


    However, if the Doctor was ever able to gain access to River, I do wonder if he could somehow transfer her consciousness into a Flesh body allowing her to live again.


    As for the end of Forest of the Dead where River is seen with the 3 children, one of those children is Charlotte, the little girl whose bio pattern makes up CAL. The other 2 children are the2children which Donna had in her virtual life, eventually revealed to be templates used for all children in that world.

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    ssidget

    [9]May 4, 2013
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    I think Clara is CAL the little girl who 'is so clever'.

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  • Avatar of smash1986hu

    smash1986hu

    [10]May 11, 2013
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    IMO Clara is definietly not CAL, or anyone we ever met before. She is something new. Se is probably a trap of some kind for the doctor. From the moment we first met her, she was very interesting to the doctor, and then he met her again, which pretty much made the doctor more interested. He could not resist the girl, who died twice. I'm sure if she is a trap, she knows nothing about it. Just like Amy didn't know she was flesh, and just like River was not in control, when she shot him.
    Btw flesh, I also entertained the idea, that the doctor could go back to the library just after his previous incarnation left, and "download" River somehow to sime kind of body. Or he doesn't even has to do that. Just attach a flesh "pond" (pardon the pun) to the computer, so she can take control of a body from the computer core. This way she truly can never die, because she could just make an other flesh body, and go have fun in the universe. It's totally doable, since the silence could transmit the signal through time and space into the TARDIS, so she could go anywhere, any time.
    As for Amy and Rory: the explenation why they cannot be retrieved is total cr*p. They just came up with it, because they wanted to retire the characters. The docor traveled to that time period previouslí plenty of times without a problem, and if the argument is that it is a fixed point in time, then it already happened in his future, so he shouldn't be able to do it. But he did. Even if he couldn't take the TARDIS, there are a lot of ways to save them, if Moffat wants to bring them back, which is not like him. River could go with a vortex manipultor (it was explained several times before, that it doesn't have the same complicated restrictions, as the TARDIS), or send them a massege, that there is some cryogenic alien tech somewhere, and they should freeze themselves, etc.
    But it's not likely to happen, because as I stated above, Moffat doesn't do that. Since he took over, a lot of the rules changed in the show. There is a lot of "timey-wimey" crazy, alternate universes, things that happened, but didn't, timelines rewritten, but also fixed timelines, etc. But he never actually brought back a character from the previous era, like RTD did. With him, companions left, and sometimes came back for a little cameo, or even a bigger story arc. I would have liked for example to have Jack Harkness back, for the 50th special, but Moffat won't bring him back for some reason.
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    dragon22a

    [11]May 12, 2013
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    smash1986hu wrote:
    IMO Clara is definietly not CAL, or anyone we ever met before. She is something new. Se is probably a trap of some kind for the doctor. From the moment we first met her, she was very interesting to the doctor, and then he met her again, which pretty much made the doctor more interested. He could not resist the girl, who died twice. I'm sure if she is a trap, she knows nothing about it. Just like Amy didn't know she was flesh, and just like River was not in control, when she shot him. Btw flesh, I also entertained the idea, that the doctor could go back to the library just after his previous incarnation left, and "download" River somehow to sime kind of body. Or he doesn't even has to do that. Just attach a flesh "pond" (pardon the pun) to the computer, so she can take control of a body from the computer core. This way she truly can never die, because she could just make an other flesh body, and go have fun in the universe. It's totally doable, since the silence could transmit the signal through time and space into the TARDIS, so she could go anywhere, any time. As for Amy and Rory: the explenation why they cannot be retrieved is total cr*p. They just came up with it, because they wanted to retire the characters. The docor traveled to that time period previousl? plenty of times without a problem, and if the argument is that it is a fixed point in time, then it already happened in his future, so he shouldn't be able to do it. But he did. Even if he couldn't take the TARDIS, there are a lot of ways to save them, if Moffat wants to bring them back, which is not like him. River could go with a vortex manipultor (it was explained several times before, that it doesn't have the same complicated restrictions, as the TARDIS), or send them a massege, that there is some cryogenic alien tech somewhere, and they should freeze themselves, etc. But it's not likely to happen, because as I stated above, Moffat doesn't do that. Since he took over, a lot of the rules changed in the show. There is a lot of "timey-wimey" crazy, alternate universes, things that happened, but didn't, timelines rewritten, but also fixed timelines, etc. But he never actually brought back a character from the previous era, like RTD did. With him, companions left, and sometimes came back for a little cameo, or even a bigger story arc. I would have liked for example to have Jack Harkness back, for the 50th special, but Moffat won't bring him back for some reason.



    I agree with you that there are any number of possible avenues through which Amy and Rory could return if Moffat saw fit to do so but, storyline wise, it may come down to closure. That final message that Amy sent to The Doctor in the back of that book gave him closure. She told him that she and Rory lived good lives together, that they were happy. The Doctor knows that if he interferes, beyond whatever risk to the fabric of time, he would be interfering in that happy life.Of course, that reason would be more secure if they had gone ahead with the deleted scene which showed thatAmy and Roryadopted a child and had a family.Sure,this may not be the closure the Doctor likes, but it is one that he has come to accept.


    The Doctor doesn't like to face the facts that his friends are mortal. The Fourth Doctor left Sarah Jane Smith behind and never returned for her. When they metyears later and she confronted him he told her that it hurts to see his friends wither and die while he just regenerates. It reminds him that he is alone in the universe. Remember how the Doctor reacted to finding out that the Brigadier had passed, he was deeply hurt. This is why he rarely goes back to visit them unless they are in some sort of mortal danger. The EleventhDoctor once told Jo Grant that he has gone backonly once to look upon all of his companions, right before his regeneration. While we know that Jack, Martha, Mickey, and Wilfred saw him, it was made apparent that for the most part he simply looked upon his old friends without seen. Maybe this was because he knows his companions are on the right path and that his presence would put that in jeopardy, maybe it just hurt too much.


    As for Jack being back for the 50th Anniversary, I would have loved to see him back. It may have been the fact that it is only theTenth and Eleventh Doctors returning and they both have their respective companions and Jack would just not have a place, particularly since Moffat has only been given an hour for the special. It may have also been a scheduling issue.JohnBarrowman is currently appearing onArrow and maybe there was a conflict regarding shooting or read throughs because of that or another commitment.

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    smash1986hu

    [12]May 13, 2013
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    Nope, he said in an interview, that he wasn't even asked, and he would have totally come back. Smells of Moffat...
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    archangelwho

    [13]May 19, 2013
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    As a fan of both the 1963 and 2005 show it has been hard to deal with the way both producers has broken rules and changed the storylines. It as if they have forgotten or don't care about the show long history and long time fans and run the show as if it is a new show and it was teir idea from the start.

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