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The 13th Doctor

  • Avatar of Man_Of_Miracles

    Man_Of_Miracles

    [1]Jul 18, 2007
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    OK, I could be making this up but, I remember reading about a story in the classic series which featured a future version of the Doctor (after he uses his last regeneration) who was evil and traveled back in time to do, well...evil...things...

    My question is, is this true? How did it end? And if it is true, is it considered canon?

    Just wondering, because we seem to be going through the regenerations at a rate of knots, and also the idea of the current Doctor interacting with a future version of himself (who looks different) and perhaps not knowing it, is fascinating to me.

    Anyway...

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  • Avatar of whovion1

    whovion1

    [2]Jul 18, 2007
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    the story you are refering to was Colin Baker's last Season. Season 23. Colin Baker was the 6th Doctor. Season 23 was called Trial of a Timelord and it ran for 14 episodes. The evil Doctor was known as the Valeyard and was somewhere between the Doctor's 7th and last regeneration. With the current producers though I doubt he'll return. Shame really because I did enjoy the character. He did return for 1 last adventure in the new adventures on CD (Big Finish Productions)
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    ContinuumVortex

    [3]Jul 18, 2007
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    whovion1 wrote:
    the story you are refering to was Colin Baker's last Season. Season 23. Colin Baker was the 6th Doctor. Season 23 was called Trial of a Timelord and it ran for 14 episodes. The evil Doctor was known as the Valeyard and was somewhere between the Doctor's 7th and last regeneration. With the current producers though I doubt he'll return. Shame really because I did enjoy the character. He did return for 1 last adventure in the new adventures on CD (Big Finish Productions)

    wasnt that the unbound series? atleast i think it is been trying to get hold of it for ages

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  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [4]Jul 19, 2007
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    This is from a previous thread which touched on the subject...

    steamheaduk wrote:

    And just to clarify, the Valeyard ISN'T the thirteenth Doctor, but some form of projection from somewhere between his 12th and 13th body.

    The Master: The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your 12th and final incarnation.

    Quite what that means was never really established, but more than likely it was something akin to the Watcher from between the 4th and 5th that was formed during that regeneration.

    Edited on 07/19/2007 12:02am
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    mattpitt1991

    [5]Jul 19, 2007
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    It makes me wonder why we're allowed threads about the old series in this forum, yet new series threads in TheOldBill's Doctor Who guide are locked...
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    thetruesora

    [6]Jul 19, 2007
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    since the valeyard is from the darker sides of his nature it could be an evil side of him that "escapes" and becomes a seperate being when he is using his last regeneration which doesn't go completely right and then leads to some story where it turns out that it isn't his last. I'm sure if it was written well it could set up for a great story with the doctor gaining a new set of regenerations.
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  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [7]Jul 19, 2007
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    mattpitt1991 wrote:
    It makes me wonder why we're allowed threads about the old series in this forum, yet new series threads in TheOldBill's Doctor Who guide are locked...

    Quite simply because the Old series helps explains things in the New, whereas the reverse cannot be said. Nothing that happens in the new series can have any impact on the old. And if this thread were purely discussing the old series then no doubt it would be locked, but the Valeyard is in a strange position of being in the past of the old series and potentially the future of the new.

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    The_void_68

    [8]Jul 19, 2007
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    Time travel, its all dreadfully confusing.

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  • Avatar of _Islander_

    _Islander_

    [9]Jul 19, 2007
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    mattpitt1991 wrote:
    It makes me wonder why we're allowed threads about the old series in this forum, yet new series threads in TheOldBill's Doctor Who guide are locked...

    Steamy puts it well.

    If a thread were set up in this forum that purely discussed old Who, I'd lock it - it'd be off-topic. If, however, you're using old Who to explain new Who, or something along those lines, as in this thread, then that's OK.
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  • Avatar of Man_Of_Miracles

    Man_Of_Miracles

    [10]Jul 19, 2007
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    So, Valeyard is still canon?

    But is a (physically) seperate entity from the Doctor?

    A side effect of the Doctor's last regeneration?

    I assume he was defeated?

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  • Avatar of whovion1

    whovion1

    [11]Jul 19, 2007
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    I disagree with you SteamheadUK regarding what you say about the new series of Doctor Who having noeffect with the old series. If that was the case it wouldn't have started off with Doctor's 9 & 10. It would have started off with Doctor 1. Also you had a story with Sarah Jane andDoctor NO 10 mentioned in Ep 11 Series 2 that he was a Dad once.You really don't research your facts do you? A good example of an original series and a sequel is with Star Trek & Star Trek Next Generation. The Mirror Universe for example was started in Star Trek and continued in STNG plus the other 3 spin off'sI think both the old and the new complement each other. Mind you I do appreciate what you say about the Valeyard being a possibility in the new series. We'll just have to wait and see. If he does return I hope he's played by the fantastic Michael Jayston
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  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [13]Jul 19, 2007
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    whovion1 wrote:
    You really don't research your facts do you?


    I would put steamy's vast accumulated and nimbly accessed wealth of Who-knowledge up against absolutely anyone's on this board.

    And when has the Doctor ever said which incarnation he is? For all we know, he could've been an elderly Dutch woman between McGann and Eccleston. His P.R. people at the Beeb said he was No. 9 and then No. 10, not the Doc himself.

    I think what steamy meant is nothing in the new series goes back and obviates anything that happened in the old series. But if I'm wrong, I'll ask him to correct me because frankly he's earned all of our respect.

    .
    Edited on 07/19/2007 5:26pm
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  • Avatar of nhubi

    nhubi

    [14]Jul 19, 2007
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    Bravo tjaman, I could not have put it better myself.

    Trust me whovion1, when you've been around this board for a while you'll realise just what a precious resource Steamy is, and how highly we justifiably regard him.

    Edited on 07/19/2007 5:55pm
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  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [15]Jul 20, 2007
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    whovion1 wrote:
    I disagree with you SteamheadUK regarding what you say about the new series of Doctor Who having noeffect with the old series. If that was the case it wouldn't have started off with Doctor's 9 & 10. It would have started off with Doctor 1. Also you had a story with Sarah Jane andDoctor NO 10 mentioned in Ep 11 Series 2 that he was a Dad once.You really don't research your facts do you? A good example of an original series and a sequel is with Star Trek & Star Trek Next Generation. The Mirror Universe for example was started in Star Trek and continued in STNG plus the other 3 spin off'sI think both the old and the new complement each other. Mind you I do appreciate what you say about the Valeyard being a possibility in the new series. We'll just have to wait and see. If he does return I hope he's played by the fantastic Michael Jayston

    You're getting tenses and cause and effect mixed up there. The new series starts with Doctor Nine because of the old series, not the new series having an effect on it, it is affected by it.

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  • Avatar of super_snotling

    super_snotling

    [16]Jul 20, 2007
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    Also, the Mirror universe was never covered in TNG or Voyager just DS9 and those two episodes of Enterprise.

    Sorry, I know it's OT but I just wanted to jump on the "pointing out what's wrong" bandwagon.

    Also Steam is the font of all things Who. He probably knows more about the good Doctor than I do about Trek, and that's saying something, seeing as how I am a Complete Trekkie Spodboy He is as god to us lowly minions.
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  • Avatar of _Islander_

    _Islander_

    [17]Jul 20, 2007
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    Whovion, don't ever attack another member of this board again, be it justified, or, as in this case, a product of your complete and utter misunderstanding - doing so will result in moderation
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  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [18]Jul 20, 2007
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    Well thanks for all springing to my defense, but I don't really think it was called for. I can't see any personal attack on me in that posting, just a disagreement in opinion, or as is actually the case, a misunderstanding of what I said. I certainly didn't take it as an attack - people are allowed to disagree, you can't have a debate without it

    But it is a matter of fact that the new series can have no impact on the development of the old, since the old series is done and complete, so it can't - unless of course time travel is real

    But the old series does, as both me and Whovian pointed out (despite the fact he/she thought they disagreed) influence the new one.

    Hence old series discussions have some place here, whereas new series discussions rarely have any place on the original series boards.

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  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [19]Jul 20, 2007
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    super_snotling wrote:
    Also Steam is the font of all things Who.

    Except maybe anything to do with Peter Davison, can't say I've watched many of his more than once, due to the general format of the series at that time (and the twice weekly evening slot didn't help I must say). I would say LMH or NHUBI could give me a fair run on that era.

    super_snotling wrote:
    He probably knows more about the good Doctor than I do about Trek, and that's saying something, seeing as how I am a Complete Trekkie Spodboy

    Don't get me started on Trek, with the exception of the original series, I have a fair factual recall on that lot too

    super_snotling wrote:
    He is as god to us lowly minions.

    I have to say though, as nice as it is to be appreciated, I do find things like that a little disconcerting

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  • Avatar of super_snotling

    super_snotling

    [20]Jul 20, 2007
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    Yeah, maybe a spot of hero worship took over there, but you should know me well enough by now to know that I enjoy creeping people out

    Hmm, didn't realise you also have a knowledge of all things Trek. It's a shame Lin frequents these boards as well, or I may be tempted to enlist your help in round 2 of her quiz. But I'm an honest bunny, and I would never do such a thing. Honest.
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