Doctor Who Forums

Saturday 8:00 PM on BBC AmericaIn Season

Why do fans hate RTD so much?

How do you feel about RTD?

  • Avatar of RandomAussie2

    RandomAussie2

    [1]Feb 3, 2011
    • member since: 11/08/09
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 130

    He isn't without his faults, but I love his era.



    Reintroducing: Many viewers are suspicious of characters, in many cases, rightly so. If The Doctor had been reintroduced as he was: an eccentric character, many viewers would have turned off due to it's preachiness. (I don't find it preachy, but still...) Sure, we got darker Doctors in the mid to the late eighties, but can you imagine anyone willing to reintroduce an icon in that? Davies did, but did it with a good reason: to make the. We see he's a good man who has been sccarred by war, but discover, overall, that he's a good man. Moral? Yes? Good, but affected by events, so that he's not above us and never above judgement.



    Guys, The Doctor in love is not new territory. The Third Doctor clearly fancies Jo in The Green Death, Leela and The Doctor have some embarrassing sexual tension between in their stories (for the record, I love Leela), The Doctor and Romana clearly like each other (until the writers, presumbly on JNT's insistance, dropped it). Sexuality also isn't. Zoe's garb in The Mind Robber anyone? Um, and what else are we exactly meant to think when? And let's not forget the painful remark Tom Baker remarks in when he says: "".



    Davies's greatest triumph is with the companions. Sure, this isn't new, Ace and Peri being the protype for these characters, but Rose, Donna, Martha and Wilf all feel real and are extremly well developed.



    Season finale endings: watching The End of Time I was disapointed in Davies. If we could have a fully satisfying resolution to the story, why couldn't we have had one every year? Why couldn't we have The Doctor detect unusual energy emmisons that seem to coming from him and Rose after they travelled to the parallel world? Okay, I'll give him a bit of credit for the way that The Doctor's hand and Donna did seem to connect, but why the bloody hell did we have bloody.



    The messiah Doctor. But in some stories, The Doctor is protrayed as a messiah figure, which is somewhat at odds with Davies more humanised version of the character. Sure, I'd like to think this was part of Davies's masterplan for The Doctor's fall from grace in The Waters of Mars, but re-examining particular episodes. And let's face it, a title like The End of Time does bring images of christ.



    I'm an athiest personally, but the swipes at religon were rather immature in my opinion. Daleks worshipping The Supreme as God? Silly and every bit as fanatical as those Davies wishes to oppose. (And yes, this is coming from a bi man)



    The Doctor/Rose relationship: A bit creepy, methinks. Rose running off with a fortysomething (but actually eight hundred and eighty ) year old? Can you say, yeech?



    Just my two cents.



    Edited on 02/03/2011 7:43pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [2]Feb 4, 2011
    • member since: 07/04/05
    • level: 19
    • rank: Fall Guy
    • posts: 4,251
    FANS don't hate RTD. Jerks and trolls that have nothing better to do than slap somebody down do, but that's nothing new. Moffatt already has his own tribe of "haters" as did JNT for the last 9 years of the classic season.

    Remember these folks that "supposedly" hate RTD can quote chapter and verse of problems from out his entire era. I don't know about you, but if I hated somebody, or their work, I'd only be able to tell you about the first hours or so. So either these folks don't HATE what RTD did with the program or they're the most unbelievable idiots taking up so much time watching something they hate.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of rickycal78

    rickycal78

    [3]Feb 4, 2011
    • member since: 09/22/06
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 242

    I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate RTD, after all, he brought the series back to begin with. I do hate some of his stories on the show though. Things like the Master flying like he's superman, tiny house elf looking Doctor, and the constant Mary Sue crap with Rose long after she left.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TOCM19

    TOCM19

    [4]Feb 5, 2011
    • member since: 08/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 2,221
    steamheaduk wrote:
    FANS don't hate RTD. Jerks and trolls that have nothing better to do than slap somebody down do, but that's nothing new. Moffatt already has his own tribe of "haters" as did JNT for the last 9 years of the classic season.

    Remember these folks that "supposedly" hate RTD can quote chapter and verse of problems from out his entire era. I don't know about you, but if I hated somebody, or their work, I'd only be able to tell you about the first hours or so. So either these folks don't HATE what RTD did with the program or they're the most unbelievable idiots taking up so much time watching something they hate.


    I really did hate what he did, but not until near the end when I was already a big fan of DT's acting (which was also pretty bad at the end given what he had to work with)

    After seeing what Moffat did with the show (which wasn't massively different in terms of climax, that RTD (apart from it actually made less sense and was just even more OTT) I've given up hoping that Doctor Who will ever be anything more than entertaining.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of jwgrlrrajn

    jwgrlrrajn

    [5]Feb 5, 2011
    • member since: 07/14/07
    • level: 23
    • rank: Close Talker
    • posts: 2,915
    I don't really hate him. After all, this was the man who gave us Tenth. However, he's only human; thus, his era was flawed at times, just like Moffat's.

    To tell you the truth, I think Moffat did a better job when he was writing one shot episodes as opposed to entire arcs. I loved The Empty Child and Blink, but some of his newer episodes have been kind of lacking in the suspense department. (yes, even the one with the Weeping Angels)

    Of course, my theory is that a show runner is judged by the Doctor's companions. For example, most of the people who hate Rose seem to dislike RTD. I don't particularly care for Amy, and I haven't enjoyed Moffat's reign quite as much as RTD's Coincidence?

    I think that steamheaduk put it best when he said, "Remember these folks that "supposedly" hate RTD can quote chapter and verse of problems from out his entire era. I don't know about you, but if I hated somebody, or their work, I'd only be able to tell you about the first hours or so. So either these folks don't HATE what RTD did with the program or they're the most unbelievable idiots taking up so much time watching something they hate." (it kind of makes me wonder if that's why people keep bashing some of the companions and Doctors. i.e. Rose, Amy and/or Sixth)
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [6]Feb 5, 2011
    • member since: 07/13/05
    • level: 18
    • rank: Land Shark
    • posts: 2,226

    Don't believe hate is the correct word, over used yes but not correct, for here. Like with most people we like 95% of something and dislike 5% and will talk more about the 5 than the 95. There was some thing I did not like but that did not make them bad it was just that I did not like them. I'm but one fan and a show I do not make. (Some here do seem to take the view that they are the last voice on everything). I did not like the Master stories and feel that the whole team lost control of the Doctor/Rose relationship tpo the point that it really hurted season 3. Over all I like what he did and am thankful that they gave us the Doctor back. Just as with John Nathan-Turner there will always be someone to have the blame placed on by those who feel that they have to be 100% happy or there was something done poorly by someone. As with most things we are not the best judges. Give times he willbe judged more fairly one way or the other.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of pferreira86

    pferreira86

    [7]Feb 6, 2011
    • member since: 03/17/06
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 1,455

    I started out hating RTD for what he did to the show but now some years later I've become de-sensitised by his writing. Tongue out

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of BlitzEileen

    BlitzEileen

    [8]Feb 7, 2011
    • member since: 04/13/09
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 82
    TOCM19 wrote:
    steamheaduk wrote:
    FANS don't hate RTD. Jerks and trolls that have nothing better to do than slap somebody down do, but that's nothing new. Moffatt already has his own tribe of "haters" as did JNT for the last 9 years of the classic season.

    Remember these folks that "supposedly" hate RTD can quote chapter and verse of problems from out his entire era. I don't know about you, but if I hated somebody, or their work, I'd only be able to tell you about the first hours or so. So either these folks don't HATE what RTD did with the program or they're the most unbelievable idiots taking up so much time watching something they hate.


    I really did hate what he did, but not until near the end when I was already a big fan of DT's acting (which was also pretty bad at the end given what he had to work with)

    After seeing what Moffat did with the show (which wasn't massively different in terms of climax, that RTD (apart from it actually made less sense and was just even more OTT) I've given up hoping that Doctor Who will ever be anything more than entertaining.


    Uh, are you kidding? The fault you have with Doctor Who is that it's entertaining?

    In response to the OP, I don't know why so many people have a problem with him. Although, to be honest, I've only ever noticed it on the internet. My friends that are Who fans have nothing but good things to say about the RTD era, and Moffat's for that matter.

    He had some amazing episodes, Midnight being a real highlight. And Donna's my favourite companion, so I love him for creating her. Tooth and Claw, Turn Left, Utopia...honestly for the amount of stories he had to come up with every year I'm surprised only a few where a bit off.

    Stephen Moffat is my favourite TV writer and even he has a few episodes I don't like too much. So after 4 seasons Russell was bound to have a few less than average episodes.

    He's the man who got me in to Doctor Who, Classic Who, made me want to continue watching it, and I'll watch it for evermore because of him.

    In short, warts and all, he was bloody brilliant and I do hope he comes back to write for Who fairly soon.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of TOCM19

    TOCM19

    [9]Feb 9, 2011
    • member since: 08/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 2,221
    No, i watch it because it's entertaining, what i'm saying is the premise of the show has way more potential than is being realised by breaking it's own rules and generally just not making sense, All i'm saying is that now i've accepted that it's only going to be just an entertainign show the only issues i have with RTD are when he gets completely OTT. (The last two parter he did was ridiculous IMO, lightning hands flying master, a world full of copies of him, etc. was just too much)

    Your point about midnight is an interesting one. I think a lot of RTD's problem was that he seemed to have a too large a budget than what he really needed, midnight, probably one of the lower costing episodes that he wrote, and it's really quite good. Then you get to the sound of Drums, and RTD uses up his big budget to create all sorts of terrible disasters and explosions, and then writes himself in to a dead end where he has to use a deus ex machina to win.

    Thing is that Moffat did exactly the same thing in his season, the Pandorica and Amy believing in fries was just a terrible way to end the season, but the cracks in time were already making no sense before the end. So like I say, I did hate RTD, not i wonder if the extravagance is just a pitfal of havign to write for doctor who, and whilst i'll still get annoyed at terrible stories, like this recent christmas one ( i mean HTF did that even make sense) I'll still watch the show, becasue I love Moffats character interaction writing, and his amazing dialogue.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of pferreira86

    pferreira86

    [10]Feb 13, 2011
    • member since: 03/17/06
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 1,455

    I think one of my main problems with RTD was that the new series broad audience constantly gave him an excuse many times to incorporate any old technobabble to explain away villians plans or the Doctor and his friends getting out of dangerous situations. I guess he felt no one outside of sci-fi fans would notice.

    Edited on 02/13/2011 6:44am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of majken1974

    majken1974

    [11]Feb 19, 2011
    • member since: 04/23/06
    • level: 21
    • rank: Snagglepuss
    • posts: 785

    I don't hate him, I'm not fond of his episodes and after the way he treated Torchwood fans after Children of Earth I don't really respect him

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Cranky_Old_Batt

    Cranky_Old_Batt

    [12]Feb 19, 2011
    • member since: 04/06/07
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 75
    steamheaduk wrote:
    FANS don't hate RTD. Jerks and trolls that have nothing better to do than slap somebody down do, but that's nothing new. Moffatt already has his own tribe of "haters" as did JNT for the last 9 years of the classic season.

    Remember these folks that "supposedly" hate RTD can quote chapter and verse of problems from out his entire era. I don't know about you, but if I hated somebody, or their work, I'd only be able to tell you about the first hours or so. So either these folks don't HATE what RTD did with the program or they're the most unbelievable idiots taking up so much time watching something they hate.


    Wow. Hate much?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [13]Feb 21, 2011
    • member since: 07/04/05
    • level: 19
    • rank: Fall Guy
    • posts: 4,251
    Cranky_Old_Batt wrote:
    steamheaduk wrote:
    FANS don't hate RTD. Jerks and trolls that have nothing better to do than slap somebody down do, but that's nothing new. Moffatt already has his own tribe of "haters" as did JNT for the last 9 years of the classic season.

    Remember these folks that "supposedly" hate RTD can quote chapter and verse of problems from out his entire era. I don't know about you, but if I hated somebody, or their work, I'd only be able to tell you about the first hours or so. So either these folks don't HATE what RTD did with the program or they're the most unbelievable idiots taking up so much time watching something they hate.


    Wow. Hate much?

    Whuh?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of OmegaForteGS

    OmegaForteGS

    [14]Feb 24, 2011
    • member since: 12/15/04
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 785
    I don't hate RTD. I just hate some of the stories he wrote and some directions he took in Doctor Who and Torchwood.

    I am thankfull that he revived the show though.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of jwgrlrrajn

    jwgrlrrajn

    [15]Feb 24, 2011
    • member since: 07/14/07
    • level: 23
    • rank: Close Talker
    • posts: 2,915

    The main problem I have with RTD's era is that he had a tendency to get God and the Doctor confused.


    Anybody doubt me on this? I submit to you exhibits a, b and c.


    A: The Tinkerbell/Jesus moment.


    B: This line from The Family of Blood: "[The Doctor is] like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night and the storm in the heart of the sun… He's ancient and forever. He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe. And… he's wonderful."


    C: Any time the Doctor is referred to as "the lonely god."

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of thetruesora

    thetruesora

    [16]Mar 9, 2011
    • member since: 12/13/04
    • level: 22
    • rank: Freak and Geek
    • posts: 6,286
    B would be because of Paul Cornell (the guy who wrote that two-parter). RTD can't be blamed for every little detail that is disliked by fans.

    I'm not disagreeing with the other two but B just seems like a really minor thing (it was one line used in only one episode) to use RTD as the one to blame.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of jwgrlrrajn

    jwgrlrrajn

    [17]Mar 9, 2011
    • member since: 07/14/07
    • level: 23
    • rank: Close Talker
    • posts: 2,915
    Okay, I'll give you that. It's really only a minor gripe, nowhere near as obnoxious as A. I'll be honest with you, the line itself sounds pretty cool, but I don't think the Doctor was ever portrayed as such a godlike figure in the old series.

    (heck, they had the Doctor kill the devil in the new series)
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [18]Mar 10, 2011
    • member since: 07/04/05
    • level: 19
    • rank: Fall Guy
    • posts: 4,251
    Not forgetting his ascent on the arms of two angels of course.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of pferreira86

    pferreira86

    [20]Mar 13, 2011
    • member since: 03/17/06
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 1,455

    I thought the whole point of the 7th Doctor era was to eventually reveal the Doctor as a god. Like "much more than just a Timelord".

    Edited on 03/13/2011 6:47am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.