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Will there ever be a Darker Doctor?

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    archangelwho

    [1]Aug 21, 2011
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    I Have seen interviews where both Troughton & Colin Baker had wanted their Doctor to be darker. McCoy and Ecclestopn seem to be heading that way but never got their. Tennant had a few dark stories but again just never seem to be an over all story line. I don't see Smith as being playing the Doctor dark. He is a mix of Tom Baker, Davison and Tennant (which is what a Time Lord is). With all the Doctor has been though I would think his darker side would show. I don't mean evil, just darker.

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    thetruesora

    [2]Aug 21, 2011
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    wasn't Colin Baker supposed to be the "dark Doctor"? I'm not sure but I think it was supposed to be the plan for his time as the doctor (but i'm guessing the whole "nearly killing his assistant" thing and people's reaction changed that).
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    jwgrlrrajn

    [3]Aug 21, 2011
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    CB wasn't as dark as he was random, imo.
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    archangelwho

    [4]Aug 22, 2011
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    thetruesora wrote:
    wasn't Colin Baker supposed to be the "dark Doctor"? I'm not sure but I think it was supposed to be the plan for his time as the doctor (but i'm guessing the whole "nearly killing his assistant" thing and people's reaction changed that).


    He said in more than one DVD extra that he thought that his was to be darker and had even pushed for it but something happen along the way that he still does not fully understand.

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    coolcatkid

    [5]Aug 22, 2011
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    I think we got a glimpse of the Drs dark side quite well in The Waters of Mars .
    He is ultimately a hero and so I think the line has been drawn and you won't see much darker than that ep
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    PsyduckRanger

    [6]Aug 23, 2011
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    Yeah, Time Lord Victorious is far beyond dark enough for me thanks...
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    Selaspy

    [7]Aug 24, 2011
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    I actually consider the Waters of Mars to be the saddest moment of the new series (haven't seen the old sorry). Because it's incredibly dark. In that moment, you can see the Doctor become almost like the Master or the Rastilon - thinking he can do what he wants to the whole universe. He crosses a line that can't be uncrossed and nearly destroyed humanity's future. And instead of Captain Adelaide dying a hero's death, she died by her own hand - still a hero I believe, because she did it because she knew she had to do it for humanity to reach the stars, but still a terrible tragedy.

    I think the Doctor's rant about him being the Time Lord victorious is as dark as a good character can possible get.

    Even the 9th doctor wants to kill the Dalek that has Rose's DNA, for all his anger, hatred, bitterness and vengeful feelings, he is only a hurting man. But Waters on Mars, the doctor borders on becoming a megalomaniac.

    I guess it depends on your definition of dark really though.
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    PsyduckRanger

    [8]Aug 24, 2011
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    The Waters of Mars makes the Doctor scary, a character to hate. He should never be that, he should be the hero. Even at his lowest we should be able to find SOME sympathy in him. We should not be outright wanting him to lose. In my opinion The Waters of Mars is probably the worst episode of Doctor Who for what it does to the Doctor. The whole arc throughout the specials is ghastly.

    Anyway, my point is we've seen one particular extreme of the Doctor dark. We should never see him like that again, but, of course, there are ways of doing something similar but sympathetic. AGMGTW showed him rather dark.
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    archangelwho

    [9]Aug 26, 2011
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    But does this not make him more real. We all have our dark side and there are events that bring it out. In fact there are events that we need our dark side to take the lead.

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    dragon22a

    [10]Aug 27, 2011
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    It was in the sixth doctors life that he began to understand the logic in murder and was a lot more violent. Colin Baker had wanted to wear black to reveal his darker life.


    Tenant had a bit of dark side and so does Smith. That goes along with the oncoming storm description that he has had in the new series. He is a force for good but if someone crosses him or goes against his code, he will show them why he has survived so long and why he is feared. He may not even choose the deadly route. In Family of Blood he chose instead to make the family live forever in vicious punishment. Even his own allies can become his targets if they violate his code. Look at what happened to Harriet Jones. She killed the Sycorax and the Doctor took down her from office.


    The doctor fears his darker side. He sometimes goes too far and is floored when someone reveals it to him. In Turn Left we saw that he could not stop himself when facing the Racnoss and died because Donna did not stop him. River called her out in A good Man goes to War. Davros also called him out when he told him that the Doctor, while refusing to use a weapon, makes others into weapons.


    I honestly do not think that a darker doctor will occur as long as they go with younger regenerations. Someone older can give off the wise and tired character.

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    LJD3Tdance

    [11]Oct 6, 2011
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    I think they play with the dark side sometimes. Like in the dream lord one. He's the only person who hates himself that much. And they never let you know what was behind the door for his nightmare door, but you have to feel like, maybe it was HIM.
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    jwgrlrrajn

    [12]Oct 6, 2011
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    I think 11th summed it up best when he said, "Good men don't need rules. Today's not the day to find out why I have so many."
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    ChipsTheButler

    [13]Nov 28, 2011
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    I can't see any reason why the Doctor can't be black. Or female, for that matter.
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    steamheaduk

    [14]Nov 29, 2011
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    ChipsTheButler wrote:
    I can't see any reason why the Doctor can't be black. Or female, for that matter.

    Especially since this season BOTH change of skin tone and sex have been very specifically ruled in
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    dragon22a

    [15]Dec 2, 2011
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    While maybe not a female Doctor, I could see some pretty good Black British actors taking on the role. Idris Elba was great in Thor and I have heard he was great in Luthor. His Doctor would likely be far darker in tone. However, I would rather see Chiwetel Ejiofor as the Doctor. I loved his work in Serenity and Red Belt. As a theatre trained actor, I could see his Doctor as a more regal victorian type of characters similar to McGann. Plus, if they ever found the need for the Doctor to physically fight someone, he has martial arts training.

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    archangelwho

    [16]Dec 3, 2011
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    We are getting off subject. I was not talking about skin tone or male/female.

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    ChipsTheButler

    [17]Dec 6, 2011
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    I guess the problem with a female Doctor is that the audience is used to the woman being the companion with recent series, that it will be an interesting but initially odd inversion if they went for female Doctor, male companion.
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    dragon22a

    [18]Dec 7, 2011
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    archangelwho wrote:


    We are getting off subject. I was not talking about skin tone or male/female.




    That is why an older Doctor would be better. Someone who looks a bit weary and tired. My picks would be James Callis, Richard E. Grant, Rhys Ifans, and Tim Roth. Right now, we have a younger Doctor who mostly looks happy and jovial while only rarely showing a darker side. These actors would likely show a darker side consistently and rarely show a lighter side.


    In the older series, it was said that the Valeyard was the personifciation of the doctors dark side. I could see this darker version of the doctor being the incarnation right before the Valeyard is created. He becomes almost too dark and dangerous in this life and when he regenerates, the darkness in him becomes the Valeyard. The next incarnation would then be much lighter after expelling this darker nature.

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    archangelwho

    [19]Dec 8, 2011
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    In the older series, it was said that the Valeyard was the personifciation of the doctors dark side. I could see this darker version of the doctor being the incarnation right before the Valeyard is created. He becomes almost too dark and dangerous in this life and when he regenerates, the darkness in him becomes the Valeyard. The next incarnation would then be much lighter after expelling this darker nature.


    [/QUOTE]


    Are you suggesting a type of spilt? If so how would this effect the number of regenerations? Just setting here I kind of like the idea as long as it is not done like in Star Trek The Enemy Within where the 2 can not live spilted.

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    steamheaduk

    [20]Dec 9, 2011
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    archangelwho wrote:
    dragon22a wrote:

    In the older series, it was said that the Valeyard was the personifciation of the doctors dark side. I could see this darker version of the doctor being the incarnation right before the Valeyard is created. He becomes almost too dark and dangerous in this life and when he regenerates, the darkness in him becomes the Valeyard. The next incarnation would then be much lighter after expelling this darker nature.



    Are you suggesting a type of spilt? If so how would this effect the number of regenerations? Just setting here I kind of like the idea as long as it is not done like in Star Trek The Enemy Within where the 2 can not live spilted.


    The implication with the Valeyard was that he was some kind of split, as the Master points out in Trial Of A Time Lord (Part 13 10 minutes in) -
    "The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your Twelfth and Final incarnation"

    Which implies he is a separate entity, split somehow from the Doctor and able to exist separately, even through the paradox of claiming the 6th Doctor's remaining regenerations such that he would never have reached the point of split.

    We may already have seen the start of the Valeyard's split with the Dreamlord in Amy's choice, as he was most definitely derived from the Doctor's darker side. And again, depending on your interpretation we ARE now at the Doctor's 12 incarnation (counting Journey's End Doctor), albeit only the 11th different appearance.

    The nice "get out of jail free" card is the wording being "between Twelfth and Final" in which Final implies 13, but leaves it open to eventually be a bigger number without compromising continuity. But even with the 13 limit in place that statement implies the separation of the two does not rob the Doctor of regenerations, or it happened at a point when he had none left anyway.
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