Doctor Who Forums

Saturday 8:00 PM on BBC AmericaBetween Seasons

Will there ever be a Darker Doctor?

  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [21]Dec 10, 2011
    • member since: 07/13/05
    • level: 18
    • rank: Land Shark
    • posts: 2,190

    steamheaduk wrote:
    archangelwho wrote:
    dragon22a wrote:


    In the older series, it was said that the Valeyard was the personifciation of the doctors dark side. I could see this darker version of the doctor being the incarnation right before the Valeyard is created. He becomes almost too dark and dangerous in this life and when he regenerates, the darkness in him becomes the Valeyard. The next incarnation would then be much lighter after expelling this darker nature.



    Are you suggesting a type of spilt? If so how would this effect the number of regenerations? Just setting here I kind of like the idea as long as it is not done like in Star Trek The Enemy Within where the 2 can not live spilted.


    The implication with the Valeyard was that he was some kind of split, as the Master points out in Trial Of A Time Lord (Part 13 10 minutes in) - "The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your Twelfth and Final incarnation" Which implies he is a separate entity, split somehow from the Doctor and able to exist separately, even through the paradox of claiming the 6th Doctor's remaining regenerations such that he would never have reached the point of split. We may already have seen the start of the Valeyard's split with the Dreamlord in Amy's choice, as he was most definitely derived from the Doctor's darker side. And again, depending on your interpretation we ARE now at the Doctor's 12 incarnation (counting Journey's End Doctor), albeit only the 11th different appearance. The nice "get out of jail free" card is the wording being "between Twelfth and Final" in which Final implies 13, but leaves it open to eventually be a bigger number without compromising continuity. But even with the 13 limit in place that statement implies the separation of the two does not rob the Doctor of regenerations, or it happened at a point when he had none left anyway.


    One of the down side of a form like this is that we cannot get together in a round table and debate events like this.An afternoon of chicken wings and discussing Doctor Who events with you and a few others from this site and Doctor Who 1963 would be great.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [22]Dec 11, 2011
    • member since: 07/04/05
    • level: 19
    • rank: Fall Guy
    • posts: 4,244
    archangelwho wrote:

    One of the down side of a form like this is that we cannot get together in a round table and debate events like this.An afternoon of chicken wings and discussing Doctor Who events with you and a few others from this site and Doctor Who 1963 would be great.


    Well that all depends, I travel a lot for my job, so I got to meet up with 13th_Doctor (ironically at the point I got set upon on the forum and left for a while) and very nearly met up with minisin (I got to the arranged meeting but minisin got delayed). One or two others I got to an "almost" but work plans changed. So who knows?

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ChipsTheButler

    ChipsTheButler

    [23]Dec 11, 2011
    • member since: 11/24/10
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 866
    Wait, where are the free chicken wings?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [24]Dec 12, 2011
    • member since: 07/04/05
    • level: 19
    • rank: Fall Guy
    • posts: 4,244
    ChipsTheButler wrote:
    Wait, where are the free chicken wings?

    Usually on the free chickens...

    Back on topic...

    I do hope we will see more of the Dreamlord and perhaps an episode where he manages to manifest as a real person, possibly looking like a young Valeyard. But only subtle, no spelling out that this is the Valeyard, leave it for us to connect the dots so to speak.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of dragon22a

    dragon22a

    [25]Dec 15, 2011
    • member since: 04/23/05
    • level: 32
    • rank: Whammy!
    • posts: 2,044

    I could see the Valeyard being born during the Regeneration. Maybe the Doctor realizes that he is goning too far and actually triggers his regeneration to stop himself. The Valeyard is then born during that Regeneration as a separate individual. If I remember correctly, the Valeyard did not have a soldform and was taking over others bodies so it would be more a force or spirit being released.


    the first episode of the new Doctor's tenure could be him trying to stop the Valeyard. It would end with the Valeyard escaping or being forced back in time where he would eventually come to the point of Trial of a Timelord where he attempts to steal the 6th Doctors lives. The new Doctor would not attempt for follow because he realizes that the timeline had to be secured. He then goes on with his much lighter personality but is burdened the guilt over the things he did when under the influence of his darker side.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of MadamStacey

    MadamStacey

    [26]Dec 21, 2011
    • member since: 12/22/11
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 24

    I kinda liked nine, he was a bit darker wasn't he? Or maybe it was just because he liked wearing black and leather and was rude?

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [27]Dec 22, 2011
    • member since: 07/13/05
    • level: 18
    • rank: Land Shark
    • posts: 2,190

    MadamStacey wrote:


    I kinda liked nine, he was a bit darker wasn't he? Or maybe it was just because he liked wearing black and leather and was rude?


    Unsure if he was darker or still hurted and angry over the Time War. The Doctor has always been able to save the day where 99% plus of the time the bad guys lost and the good guys won. The Time War was one of the >1% time.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of dragon22a

    dragon22a

    [28]Dec 22, 2011
    • member since: 04/23/05
    • level: 32
    • rank: Whammy!
    • posts: 2,044

    The 9th Doctor did come off as darker and moodier than those who came before or after him. For one thing, he was prone to violence and hatred, especially towards the Daleks. He had less acceptance for humanities flaws, even calling humans "stupid apes" at one point. He also seemed to have less mercy, not giving even a first chance to run. He allowed Cassandra to die, He showed little saddness when Gwyneth died when dealing with the Gelf and up until the end, he was willing to destroy the remainder of humanity to stop the Daleks. If I remember correctly, he was willing to let Jack die in the Doctor Dances before Rose asked him to save Jack. The 10th Doctor once said that the 9th Doctor was born in violence and war which accounted for his behavior. He said that the clone doctor shared this darkness.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.