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BBC (ended 1989)

Enemy of the World and Web of Fear found

  • Avatar of wildhoney66

    wildhoney66

    [21]Oct 20, 2013
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    on that doctor who site i was talking about, that i belong to i read on a post that well at least on that site i dunno about this one. folks at the BBC read the comments and so does everyone else involved. and apparently stuff people have said or can say can hurt things from happening. i think it said? anyways as for Episode 3 it could be that it wasn't found. i mean why in the hell would they want to have it animated at all if it was found? if it was being worked on they would no doubt have it cancelled and i dunno maybe have the money used for another serial that's lost? the same goes for the 10th planet part 4



    if it was found i don't think they'd put out the animated version. no doubt they'd want the fans to have it sooner rather than later. on that site it's also been denied about Marco Polo but i dunno what to believe to be honest, which is how they want it i'm sure. though it does make sense if people on doctor who sites are saying they know from reliable sourcesand give a hint where they know it from or whom they know it from. that's no doubt going to hurt i dunno maybe a deal or somtehing? if the information is in fact correct. Marco Polo isn't on my list of serials' that i want found. but that's only cause it bores the living sh*t out of me. that doesn't mean i won't buy it on dvd if it's ever found or has been found. i will buy it.



    but it would be great if we have a complete season of the show instead of all of them having lost episodes. but like i said my gut tells me there are some more episodes found but they haven't been announced yet. even if it's just a couple i can live with that. but than again i may be wrong. it'd be great if it was announced if one like Marco Polo or some more of the daleks masterplan was found.



    ones that fans just love to death. though i am thrilled we have more of Pat T. episodes though. he had so little found and it's great that we have more found. i dunno the percent but on that doctor who site someone said that there's now over 50% found since those were returned by Phillip Morris. that's fantastic news i think. and even if there's not been anymore found at this time it's still been a great year for us Doctor who fans. i dunno what year was the last time we had this many found but it has to be over 20 years i'm guessing.

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  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [22]Oct 21, 2013
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    pferreira86 wrote:
    Yes but the problem is if they know they have Part 3 of The Web of Fear why are they including a reconstruction for DVD? It would be kind of a waste of time doing a recon for that episode once they finish remastering the missing episode.



    What makes you think they are including a reconstruction on the DVD, nothing on the pre-order details on Amazon mentions a recon? Enemy of the People is being released on DVD in November, but Web Of Fear isn't being released until February - why do you think that is?


    Web is the much more popular of the two released titles, so would make much more sense to have been released before Christmas, and yet, despite the fact the "found" episodes and the recon are already finished and out on iTunes they are delaying until February, so what is left to "finish" to justify such a delay, other than perhaps finishing the restoration on episode 3.

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  • Avatar of wildhoney66

    wildhoney66

    [23]Oct 23, 2013
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    because we are trying to be realistic on the sense that the 3rd episode isn't found yet. and if it was i'm sure they woulid have said so in that announcement. that's my guess anyways.

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  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [24]Oct 24, 2013
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    wildhoney66 wrote:


    because we are trying to be realistic on the sense that the 3rd episode isn't found yet. and if it was i'm sure they woulid have said so in that announcement. that's my guess anyways.



    But that was not my point, the point was in response to this -


    pferreira86 wrote:


    Yes but the problem is if they know they have Part 3 of The Web of Fear why are they including a reconstruction for DVD?



    The key thing is not that they didn't say Web 3 had been found at the iTunes announcement, but that there has been absolutely NO announcement that they are including a reconstruction on the DVD. The product description on Amazon gives absolutely NO clue that one of the episodes is just the soundtrack with a slide show. Not something you would expect as it leaves them open to all sorts of complaints. The lack of this detail is conspicuous by its absence.


    There is a lot more going off than is being stated in public. Not all the finds are being announced at once, can't say I understand why.


    Initially these episodes that have "just been found" were going to be announced in March, which was put back to July, and then finally October. I initially heard that ALL of Marco Polo, Enemy of the World and Web of Fear were recovered, and were being prepped for release back in May (referred to as the MEW release). Then about a month ago word came out that there were problems with the Marco restoration and it was being pulled, and a couple of weeks before the announcement that Web 3 was being held back and was being substitued with a recon. And low and behold that was exactly came to pass. Up until the actual press release I had been sceptical.


    And yet, earlier this year Phillip Morris very publicly stated that NO missing episodes had been recovered, because they weren't missing, they had been destroyed. To apply the same logic why wouldn't he have said "except Enemy and Web" in that announcement.


    The same contacts that told me Enemy and Web were back, are also saying that Web 3 is back, and the phase 2 announcement is likely to include Massacre and Macra (and possibly Marco - MMM). There's also a Missing Believed Wiped event at the British Film Institute on the 1st of December which is going to present an episode of Doctor Who that has not been released on Video. By the 1st of December that could still include the iTunes released Web episodes, or Underwater Menace, but as the BFI have also been involved in some of the recovery project, there's a chance it might also be a new reveal.

    So if we hear about Macra, Massacre and Web 3 in the next few months, then that will make me very happy indeed, because that will more than likely mean everything else I have been told will also be true - in which case we are in for a feast, in more ways than one.


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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [25]Oct 25, 2013
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    Where would be the best place to go for the best prices in the U.S. for these DVD? Due to events over the past few wekks I'm nolonger buying from BBC America Shop which for year has been the only place I have gone. I know Best Buy carried them from time to time.

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  • Avatar of wildhoney66

    wildhoney66

    [26]Oct 25, 2013
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    i dunno what to tell ya man, all i know is what has been released so far. all i say is just guess work my friend. i try not to be too excited about which is found untill it's been offically announced when the 90 episodes announcement well when i 1st heard about it back in June i was excited as hell like you i'm sure were. but as the summer wore on it dawned me that is just another rumor that had apparently started like a year or so ago apparently. as for what amazon lists i never go by what they post cause it's not always the correct information.



    i prefer tv shows on dvd.com who come out and admit they are wrong about this or that. amazon as far as i'm aware NEVER does that. some people think that the 10th planet part 4 has been found but the dvd set is coming out on the 19th i think here in the states.


    and i doubt that the BBC would release the set wtih the animated episodes if the episode was found. they either put it on the set as an extra and also put the found episode on it. or just not put the animated episode on it. either way they may be greedy bastards but they know fans won't give a damn about the animated episode if the real thing was found. and they'd be right. true i'd wonder how good the animation was. but i'd be thrilled more about the found episode if it was found. and i don't think that's one that's been found in short.



    these are just what i think by the way. it is possible that for the underwater menance they did find another episode but i'm not holding my breath. i also dunno who to believe. cause on that DW site i told ya about it's been denied all you said. and no i didn't post anything you said. but i do read what people type. they denied anything about Marco Polo being found. my favoriute comment was done by the mod on the site. well one of them where someone had said like i did before them how someone could have read 9 episodes and thought they heard 90 by accident. or typed it wrong. something like that. and the response was you are about the 90th person to suggest that.



    as for them denying the ones that were found you know damn well they aren't goign to right away say HEY we found them. they cleaned them up and worked on them for awhle. and since you can buy those serials on Itunes well the 9 episodes. my guess is also they were working out the details for them to be sold on their as well? deals no doubt can take awhile to go through.



    as i've said Christopher Lee doesn't comment about movies he'll be in for fear the deal won't go through. and after it's offically worked out that's when it's announced he'll be in this or that project. the same could be wtih pretty much anytrhing else really. and DW is no exception. i'm not trying to give them excuses but just am guessing about the reason.


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  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [27]Oct 26, 2013
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    wildhoney66 wrote:


    when i 1st heard about it back in June i was excited as hell like you i'm sure were. but as the summer wore on it dawned me that is just another rumor that had apparently started like a year or so ago apparently. as for what amazon lists i never go by what they post cause it's not always the correct information.



    When the rumour first started I was sceptical, I'd heard so many hoaxes, but when somebody I trust at the British Film Industry told me there was a lot of credence to the rumour, but could not give me details, I began to look more closely at what was going off. Having seen Web and Enemy appear exactly as predicted (and I thought the iTunes part was never going to happen), I'm just waiting for the next development. If that follows the prediction then I'll have strong hopes for the whole story. I'm just hoping when it's all done we get a full documentary on it, because it sounds like a fascinating trail


    wildhoney66 wrote:


    some people think that the 10th planet part 4 has been found but the dvd set is coming out on the 19th i think here in the states.


    and i doubt that the BBC would release the set wtih the animated episodes if the episode was found. they either put it on the set as an extra and also put the found episode on it. or just not put the animated episode on it. either way they may be greedy bastards but they know fans won't give a damn about the animated episode if the real thing was found. and they'd be right. true i'd wonder how good the animation was. but i'd be thrilled more about the found episode if it was found. and i don't think that's one that's been found in short.



    A lot of people forget that 2|Entertain, the company managing the DVD range (it's not the BBC itself), are a business, and a small one at that. They have quite small budgets for any classic Doctor Who release, even less for the Black and White range, as they don't sell to a large audience, as compared to a currently airing show. It was a huge move for them last year to announce that they had found a way to produce animation, within the budgetary constraints, for any story with up to 2 episodes missing. As a business, once they've paid for that animation, they need to do their best to get the money back.


    They are also separate from the group of people that were "in the know" about the missing episode hunt (until very recently apparently). In recent months some very curious things have happened with the DVD release schedule. Moonbase was originally due to be animated and released this year (can't remember when), character head shots were shown, but no animation sneak peaks like we got with Reign of Terror and Ice Warriors. Then it got pushed back into next year. Then the 10th Planet, originally intended for November 19th in the UK, without any announcement a few weeks ago the date got shifted forwards into October (it's now waiting for me when I get home). The release date was shifted uncerimoniously ahead of the missing episodes announcement. So my guess is, whether or not TP4 has been found, that they were worried that the recovered episode announcement might make people think twice about buying any animated ones.


    It's also noteable that we were getting regular announcements of new stories being commissioned for animation. We got Reign of Terror, Ice Warriors, Tenth Planet, then Moonbase (now delayed). But nothing else, even though the animated episodes are selling well. Most curiously no announcement for Underwater Menace, given it now only has 2 episodes missing and contains a missing episode it would be a slam dunk announcement in the 50th Anniversary year. With only Underwater Menace and Crusade left to be announced with 2 missing episodes you wouldn't have thought they would have just stopped, this year of all years.


    But "greedy bastards"? If they'd known about TP4 being recovered BEFORE they commissioned the animation, using it as a cynical way to get fans to buy it twice, then maybe. But having commissioned, the animation, having it completed, printed, packaged and sent out to distributors by the time they found out (if it indeed does exist). To write all that off would cost a lot more money than could be made back on a subsequent single release with the real episode. Especially given this second release would also bear additional cost to pay for the recovery of episode 4, the restoration, new printing, packaging and distribution, and of course disposal of the scrapped release. Not greedy, just business


    wildhoney66 wrote:


    as for them denying the ones that were found you know damn well they aren't goign to right away say HEY we found them.



    There's a lot of difference though between NOT saying something, and outright untrue responses when asked a direct question. Which of course means any sort of denial now has as much credence as any rumour, now the only thing you can trust is your eyes if and when and if they eventually come out.

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    pferreira86

    [28]Oct 27, 2013
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    Yeah, I agree Steamheaduk. I think it odd that originally there were reports that three complete stories were said to be recovered, yet only two have been announced as recovered (the one that hasn't isMarco Polo).

    Edited on 10/27/2013 12:22pm
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    wildhoney66

    [29]Oct 27, 2013
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    i'm not calling anyone here a liar by the way. i'm just trying not to get to excited about another lost serial being found if the they only say this just to mess with you or something like that.

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    steamheaduk

    [30]Oct 28, 2013
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    wildhoney66 wrote:


    i'm not calling anyone here a liar by the way. i'm just trying not to get to excited about another lost serial being found if the they only say this just to mess with you or something like that.



    I'm not taking it that way. I am telling the absolute truth, in that this is what I've heard, but you're right, that does not mean that what I've heard is the truth. But having specifically heard about a joint iTunes, DVD release for Web and Enemy several months ago, something I did not believe one bit at the time, it now makes me wonder whether the next bits I've heard will also be true. If the next phase of announcments is indeed the 3M release, then I will get very excited about everything else I have heard, but until then I'm being only cautiously optimistic myself.


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    LouisSpina

    [31]Dec 13, 2013
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    so has anyone heard anything new from sources about upcoming releases?

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    steamheaduk

    [32]Dec 13, 2013
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    A lot of the sources I heard the leak of Web and Enemy are now gagged under Non-Disclosure agreements, before that happened the rumours seemed to be based around the next batch being 3 "M" stories, which seemed to be some permutation of Marco Polo, Massacre, Myth Makers and Macra Terror. But then other sources are hinting Myth Makers is still short an episode. But very little credible new information has come out in the last month.


    Except a few days ago, a "Request for information" to the BFI resulted in some redacted emails being published in the public domain, in which the figure of the number of returned episodes is blacked out, but the width is wider than a single digit of 9, so the only real evidence I've seen that there is probably more to come.


    We did get confirmation at the BFI 11th Doctor event that the discovery of Web of Fear was known about by the Doctor Who production office in 2012 BEFORE the development of The Snowman, which is what prompted the return of The Great Intelligence into the Nu-Hu storyline.


    The next "Missing Believed Wiped" event at the BFI is on the 21st of December, so I don't think we will hear anything official before then.

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    LouisSpina

    [33]Jan 10, 2014
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    so anything come out of the dec 21st event?


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    steamheaduk

    [34]Jan 11, 2014
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    LouisSpina wrote:


    so anything come out of the dec 21st event?




    It was a bit weird, there was a new documentary aired talking about the thousands of old TV film cans that Phillip Morris has located, but no mention of what is actually in them.

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    wildhoney66

    [35]Mar 15, 2014
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    there still isn't. it is entirely possible that they are STILL going through them? cause from my understanding it was a BIG ass shipment.



    i think some Morecambe and Wiseman to names i'm going to misspell no matter how hard i try NOT to. they are i heard going to release something from their 1st year? i dunno if that's true or not? i also heard there was an episode they had found from (196 from the same guys and it was a lost episode by the way. but it was in to bad condition to do anything with so they had to throw it away.



    and some other BBC shows i think were found? i forget what though. i'm still waiting for them to announce for anything else DW. as are the rest of you.

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    pferreira86

    [36]Mar 16, 2014
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    wildhoney66 wrote:


    there still isn't. it is entirely possible that they are STILL going through them? cause from my understanding it was a BIG ass shipment.



    i think some Morecambe and Wiseman to names i'm going to misspell no matter how hard i try NOT to. they are i heard going to release something from their 1st year? i dunno if that's true or not? i also heard there was an episode they had found from (196 from the same guys and it was a lost episode by the way. but it was in to bad condition to do anything with so they had to throw it away.



    and some other BBC shows i think were found? i forget what though. i'm still waiting for them to announce for anything else DW. as are the rest of you.


    I think they said they'd found couple of missing episodes of Dad's Army.

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    steamheaduk

    [37]Mar 16, 2014
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    wildhoney66 wrote:


    there still isn't. it is entirely possible that they are STILL going through them? cause from my understanding it was a BIG ass shipment.



    i think some Morecambe and Wiseman to names i'm going to misspell no matter how hard i try NOT to. they are i heard going to release something from their 1st year? i dunno if that's true or not? i also heard there was an episode they had found from (196 from the same guys and it was a lost episode by the way. but it was in to bad condition to do anything with so they had to throw it away.



    and some other BBC shows i think were found? i forget what though. i'm still waiting for them to announce for anything else DW. as are the rest of you.



    Very strange things are going on. One thing we do know for sure is indeed it was a BIG ass shipment. That much was revealed at the BFI event in December in the documentary. The official line is that they still don't know exactly what is in there. We also know that Phil Morris started this exercise as a Doctor Who fan, to find the missing Doctor Who episodes way back in 2005. So to think "he" doesn't actually know which Doctor Who episodes he has discovered does stretch credulity a lot, but I'd certainly buy into a view that they don't know the state of every film can found yet, as that's hundreds of hours of viewing.


    He started this purely for Doctor Who, but I think along the way he discovered a gold mine of tonnes of classic "lost" TV, and I think that is what is slowing things up, as he apparently wants a "fair price" for the lot, not just Doctor Who, whereas the TV companies want to cherry pick the ones they think they can commercially exploit. I believe Enemy and Web were released as a "good will" gesture to get something out for the 50th, but beyond that I think there's a lot more negotiation to happen before we see the rest.


    There was indeed an early Morecambe and Wise discovered that the print is currently considered "unviable" but I think they are still investigating avenues before writing it off entirely.


    The strangest thing for me is that technically now there is only 1 episode of Doctor Who left to be released on DVD, the recently found Underwater Menace, and yet we don't have a release date for that.

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    archangelwho

    [38]Jun 2, 2014
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    I got the DVD a few weeks ago but just got around to watching them today. 1st I'm very thankful that we have these two agin to watch. Enemy of the World was on my list of the ones I had hoped that would be found. The disappointment is the neither DVD had any extras not even an audio commentary. Now they could have ran out of anything to add as extras but no audio commentary? Was this a rush job to get them out during the 50th ann.? Was to cost of purchase price to the finder to highto allow the cost of any extras or commentary? For some this may not matter but I lookas forward to thecommentaries and extras as much as I do the story. I rewatch thme more often than I do the stories andmany times will discover something I missed. Maybe later they will come up with a specialedition with extras and/or commentary.

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    steamheaduk

    [39]Jun 3, 2014
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    It's hard to define "rush job" in the full context here, as there is a lot of secrecy still in place surrounding when exactly these were found, and when they were handed over to the BBC for restoration. One of the thoughts behind the lack of extras is that these releases were intended to be a surprise release for the 50th, so minimal people were involved, and many an actor has given the game away in the past with an innocent tweet about what they were just working on. Commentary recording leaks were often a good hint to future release order for the old classic range.


    There's also "stuff" going on behind the scenes with regards the companies involved in producing the classic range of DVDs, possibly being "frozen out" for reasons not yet apparent.


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    pferreira86

    [40]Jun 8, 2014
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    Missing episode announcements tend to happen three years after the episodes are actually found so expect to hear about Marco Polo in about two years time.Laughing

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