Doctor Who (1963) Forums

BBC (ended 1989)

Fury From the Deep

  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [1]Jul 9, 2013
    • member since: 07/13/05
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    1st I like shows that can make fun of themselves and if done right with the right actor those that talk to the audience. Of coures this is hard to do and need the right actor and writer. When the TARDIS land on Earth, in England agin both Jamie and Victoria comment on the fact that they sem to go to Earth and England a lot. The ending between Jamie and Victoria was very touching. I never bought into the fact that River was a Time Lord because she was conceived/born in the TARDIS. I alway thought that you have to graduate from the Time Lord academy. But if you could become a Time Lord by conception/ birth in the TARDIS then I think if Victoriahad stay longer her and Jamie may have been the parents of the first human Time Lord.

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  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [2]Jul 9, 2013
    • member since: 07/04/05
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    In the TV series it's never really been fleshed out exactly how a Timelord becomes a Timelord with all the bells and whistles. There is certainly strong implication that the "Title" Timelord is conferred at Graduation, but never explicitly as far as I can remember. Neither is there any indication of whether the regenerative cycle is something Timelords are born with or gifted with after birth.


    It IS shown that further cycles can be gifted (e.g. in the Five Doctors), but I can't think of any instance where it states they're not born with the ability.


    Though equally you get a "feeling" that there is a difference between Gallifreyans and Timelords in stories like Invasion of Time. But I can't think of an instance where it is spelled out.


    The main sources of info for regenerations that I can think of are -


    > The Deadly Assassin - declares the 12 regeneration limit.


    > Destiny of the Daleks - shows that a regeneration CAN be performed without a crisis, and possibly allows more control of the form.


    > Mawdryn Undead - Spells it out that the limit is a result of a Timelord only carrying enough energy for 12 regenerations, and this energy can be removed. This is important as it means that the limit is still in place even though there are no other Timelords left.


    > The Five Doctors - Indicates that an extra cycle of regenerations can be gifted, but does not show how.


    > The Christmas Invasion - Shows that within 15 hours a regeneration isn't "set" so further change/healing can take place (also explains the multiple Romana forms in Destiny of the Daleks as not using up multiple regenerations)


    > Sound of Drums/Last of the Timelords - Shows how young Timelords are when they start at the Academy and also shows that a regeneration CAN be stopped by force of will.


    > Journey's End - Indicates that a regeneration can "just heal" and not change, but the remaining energy still has to go somewhere (which strictly speaking, if Hurt is pre-Matt Smith, means Matt Smith's Doctor has no regenerations left i.e. 11 + Meta Crisis + Hurt = 13).


    > Let's Kill Hitler - Hints (along with Destiny of the Daleks) that female Timelords possibly have more control on their eventual appearance post regeneration (concentrating on a dress size). This also shows that regeneration energy can be used to heal someone else (also used slightly in Angels Take Manhattan).


    But I can't think of a single episode that sets out exactly when and how a Timelord gets their regenerative cycle.


    Equally I don't think River is ever referred to as a Timelord, just a child of the TARDIS. Just because she received regenerations does not necessarily mean every child conceived in a TARDIS would. Though not technically announced on screen River was conceived around the events of "The Big Bang" (though they did leave in the TARDIS on their wedding night), Moffatt has stated this in interviews as his own little "in-joke" with the title. During this period the TARDIS had exploded and the entire universe was destroyed and reset and the Doctor and TARDIS "remembered" back into existence, so it's not a huge stretch to think that her regenerative ability is a one off due to the unusual confluence of events.


    We also have to remember that this is the LAST TARDIS now. Though originally the Eye of Harmony was thought to be only contained within the Panopticon on Galifrey (The Deadly Assassin), the TV Movie (and then Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS) has established that it is also simultaneously inside every TARDIS as well. So where is WAS shared across all TARDISes, it now has it all to itself, and it could be the "gifting" of regenerations was originally done via the Eye on Galifrey, but now it exists in ONLY the Doctor's TARDIS it could have "leaked" into River's conception.

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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [3]Jul 10, 2013
    • member since: 07/13/05
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    Very detailed. Thanks, I wishI had better writing skills. This is way I enjoy this site so much and wish there was more posting by some of you. As far Romana in Destiny of the Daleks I got the impression from watching it that what she did was more of an old parlor game that Time Lords did and that the Doctor was more bored than upset that she was wasting regererations. That if she had manitained her form then no force would have been used. Again this was just the impression I got from watching it.

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  • Avatar of wildhoney66

    wildhoney66

    [4]Jul 11, 2013
    • member since: 05/17/08
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    my guess is that at some point after he was the 8th doctor he turned into the 9th doctor which is John Hurt. during the war. and it is i think possible for the time lords and this is all just a guess. at some point maybe not all them had turned evil like we briefly saw a small portion of them in that one episode. anyways, my point is it is possible at when they realized their race was dying they i dunno gave him more than the standard 12 regenerations ? unlimited maybe so their race can continue ? all just a guess. and we do see the now 10th doctor Christopher E. with the effects of the war still on him when he 1st meets Rose. so



    it is possible he did die a couple times himself during the time war. but i agree though that is a great explanation. and though i think Destiny of the daleks is terrible. the best part of it is easily when Romana is changing her appearance. i think it was 2 things 1. the doctor was bored and not really paying much attention to her. and also it was done for comedy as well. i think it may be possible for a time lord during regeneration



    to i dunno maybe like you said have control over what they want to look like if they so choose to use it. if you recall the doctor healed with his power River song in that one episode. and she yelled at him for wasting his energy. though she was right of course. anyways,


    so i have a feeling that the current writers changed the how many times he can regenerate. for mainly because the show can be on longer and they won't have to reboot it with a 1st doctor. and if that's the case i can live with that. if you also think about all the various changes the show had with various writers. nobody ever gets his age right either. each writer says something different. and it doesn't matter if it's from the current show or the original one. some things were never set in stone from the original show though i think people think they are.



    i believe they also have said on the dvd's well the various writers or show runners. they didnt' keep track of things that this or that writer had done. and it wouldn't surprise me if the current show was also like that. but i dunno i have a feeling they may keep stuff in check in case they feel this or that has i dunno already been done? but all this is just a guess.


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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [5]Jul 12, 2013
    • member since: 07/13/05
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    The is proof that there is some control rather it is each individual Time Lord or it is the Time Lord council I am not sure. At the end of War Games the Doctor was offered a choice of appearances.

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