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Questions about the War Chief from War Games

  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [1]Apr 8, 2010
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    1. Did he or could he had gone though regeneration? He started that he was a Time Lord but after the War Lordhad him killed his body is removed and he is not seen again or talked about during the War Lord's or the Doctor's hearing other than when the War Lord states that he was a Time Lord.


    2. Could hebe the same Time Lord that later went by the name The Master? Like the Master he knew the Doctor from their past. He would have a reason to hate the Doctor. He would need to hide from the Time Lords.


    3. If 1 is true could he still be alive and show up in the new show?

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  • Avatar of Hal_10000

    Hal_10000

    [2]Sep 21, 2010
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    I suspect the truth here is that the writers simply forgot about the regeneration thing when it wasn't the Doctor. Notice "The Deadly Assassin" for example, where none of the Time Lords regenerate. The War Chief did return in the Timewyrm novels.
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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [3]Sep 22, 2010
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    Hal_10000 wrote:
    I suspect the truth here is that the writers simply forgot about the regeneration thing when it wasn't the Doctor. Notice "The Deadly Assassin" for example, where none of the Time Lords regenerate. The War Chief did return in the Timewyrm novels.


    Yes I have always questioned that. I guess I tried help the writers out with the President was at the end of his time and that Chancellor Goth was blocked by the Timelords for his crimes. At least this is how I came to deal with it.

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  • Avatar of Guildy

    Guildy

    [4]Oct 2, 2010
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    Somebody stated in another thread - I think on the new show forum, and I think Ten stated onscreen that if death occurs too quickly the regeneration wouldn't get a chance to work.


    So if the Chief's death was too sudden, then regeneration wouldn't happen. Removal of the bodycould count towards itthough. There's usually a slight delay between the mortal wound and regeneration, so having the body offscreen allows for the possibility of regenerating. I like the idea of him being the Master though.

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    tbrittreid

    [5]Aug 25, 2011
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    Guildy: "Ten stated on screen that if death occurs too quickly the regeneration wouldn't get a chance to work.


    Which flatly contradicts the regeneration-related events of the 1996 TV-movie, and especially the eighth Doctor's explanation therein for his stabilizing problems, "I was dead too long this time." I've always said:


    1. Regeneration had always been depicted--except for the ostensibly artificiallty induced second-to-third transition--as staving off death.


    2. There has always been the repeated and strong implication in the original series that if the Doctor is killed he's truly dead. Note the Master's threat to "...put a bullet through both your hearts" to the third Doctor in "The Mind of Evil."


    This would be consistent with the deaths of various Time Lords in "The Deadly Assassin." However, Goth dies too slowly for it to be applied to his case, so either there was a block on his ability to do so, or perhaps he was already in his last incarnation, but presumably quite early. Given the latter, it could be argued that he was after a means of gaining further regenerations, which was the Master's goal in that story, and give him a specific motive to ally with that renegade. Would that jibe with Goth being the leader of the tribunal trying the Doctor in "The War Games" (same actor, of course)?


    One other thing. The last of Virgin Books' Missing Adventures novels, The Dark Path, has the second Doctor, Jamie and Victoria (between "The Web of Fear" and "Fury of the Deep") encountering the Roger Delgado Master, which if canon (and somebody mentioned the War Chief's appearance in the Timewyrm arc from Virgin's New Adventures) means the War Chief and he are two different Time Lords. On the other hand, this was written by David McIntee, who also wrote The Face of the Enemy for BBC Books' Past Doctor range. This is ultimately a sequel to the televised serial "Inferno," but going in a direction that its events simply do not allow. It involves other Fascist Earth counterparts coming to UNIT Earth, but the TV story had that other Earth condemned to utter destruction, no possible survivors.

    Edited on 09/03/2011 1:28pm
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [6]Aug 31, 2013
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    http://www.tv.com/shows/doctor-who-2005/community/post/the-many-faces-of-the-master-lets-time-travel-and-revisit-our-favorite-regenerations-1377215366/jessicakroeber suggest that the War Chief could have been the Master though she points out that this was not ever supported during any story. If you look at my frist post I suggested this on 4-8-2010.

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  • Avatar of dcpgaus

    dcpgaus

    [7]Sep 23, 2013
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    I never got to see the story on tv, but I liked that they continued with the Chancellor/President roles the next time we see Gallifrey in the 3 Doctors (and later on). With the War Chief, I like that there were other bad Timelords before the Master - if they are indeed different people.
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    steamheaduk

    [8]Sep 30, 2013
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    I have to say I've never even remotely considered the War Chief and the Master to be the same character. Other than the obvious fact that they are bad Timelords there is no pointer to indicate they might be the same person. Just wishful fan thinking if you ask me, to try and fill out some back story.


    The thing that clinches it for me NOT being the War Chief is there is no back reference to the events of War Games when we first see the Master in Terror of the Autons. If they were intended to be the same person by the writers then there would have been some premise in there to explain him surviving his execution, something only 2 seasons before, so the audience would need an explanation for it.


    Incidentally there is a nice back reference to the War Chief's execution in Arc of Infinity. When they talk to Maxil about the honour of executing a Timelord, something that has only happened once before.


    The Master is also not the first of the Doctor's adversaries to run with that name, as there is also one in The Mind Robber.

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  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [9]Sep 30, 2013
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    There's also this to consider, that as far as the show is concerned, though we KNOW the Master has used up his first cycle of regenerations, and thus has more than 13 Bodies, as far as the series goes we've seen 6 incarnations -


    1. The "First" Master (we have no idea what his body count was, but the first for us played by Roger Delgado)


    2. The "Thirteenth" Master (Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beavers - though 2 different actors, always intended to be 1 incarnation)


    3. Tremas possessed by the Keeper of Traken (played by Anthony Ainley and a largely unseen Gordon Tipple in the Movie)


    4. Bruce possessed by the Master (Eric Roberts)


    5. Professor Yana (Derek Jacobi)


    6. Mister Saxon (John Simm)


    Now the series has a tradition of flagging the Master by alias ahead of the reveal by some clue in either the character name, or actor name in the credits. So in Timeflight the character of Kalid was credited as being played by Leon Ny Taiy , and anagram of Tony Ainley, in Keeper of Traken Tremas becomes Master, and in season 3 of the new series Mister Saxon becomes Master No Six, something that clearly doesn't work if you factor in the War Chief.

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    pferreira86

    [10]Oct 6, 2013
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    I believe Roger Delgado's Master was on his last life. The Master from Deadly Assassin and Keeper of Traken was Delgado's Master.

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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [11]Oct 6, 2013
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    pferreira86 wrote:


    I believe Roger Delgado's Master was on his last life. The Master from Deadly Assassin and Keeper of Traken was Delgado's Master.


    I don't remember was it ever stated what caused his deformity?

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    dcpgaus

    [12]Oct 7, 2013
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    archangelwho wrote:

    pferreira86 wrote:


    I believe Roger Delgado's Master was on his last life. The Master from Deadly Assassin and Keeper of Traken was Delgado's Master.


    I don't remember was it ever stated what caused his deformity?



    They never said but I assume that the Master was trying to push past the end of his life - and his body started to decay. I just saw the 'Deadly Assassin' on tv - and the Master was great. Grotesque costume and super evil. The only story where the Doctor didn't have a companion - which meant the Doctor was talking to himself a lot! Borusa was also a good addition to Gallifrey - manipulative and controlling. I also saw the drowning scene which caused such a stir at the time. I thought it was in context with the rest of the story.
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