Doctor Who (1963) Forums

BBC (ended 1989)

Rate the Doctors

  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [1]Aug 31, 2013
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    1. Second (Troughton) 2. Fifth (Davison) 3. Tenth (Tennent) 4. Fourth (T. Baker) 5. Eleventh (Smith) 6. Sixth (C. Baker) 7. Third (Pertwee)


    8. Seventh (McCoy) 9. First (Hartnell) 10.Ninth A (Richard E. Grant) 11. Ninth B(Eccleston) 12. Eight (McGann) Unlike so many I don't feel like I have to list C. Baker last. Also many of my picks are close enough thatthey could be called a tie but like most I hate ties.


    I list Grant as Ninth A because he stated that someone was going to paint all 9 of him, don't remember who I had my tiwins 4 years old alone as I watched it and I missed a few lines. Aslo the Master refer to an event that was so bad that it changed the Doctor and was the reason he nolonger has a companion. This sound like the Time Wars. Also the new team did not have the good taste to include either Grant nor McGann so we don't know who Eccleston followed.

    Edited on 10/12/2013 5:33pm
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  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [2]Sep 3, 2013
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    1. Second



    2. Eighth



    3. Sixth



    4. Fourth



    5. Third



    6. Ninth (Richard E Grant version)



    7. First



    8. Seventh



    9. Fifth



    I've include Richard E Grant's Ninth here as opposed to Christopher Eccleston's as up until 2005 he was officially the ninth Doctor, so since that's the period Doctor Who (1963) deals with, I thought he should get in the list. Shalka is after all on the episode guide now, and about to be released on DVD at long last.

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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [3]Sep 3, 2013
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    I have pre-ordered the Richard E. Grant DVD and once I watch it I will also add him to my list.

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    archangelwho

    [4]Sep 8, 2013
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    Can you become so well liked that you become disliked? I think so. Take the "Dave Clark Five Syndrome".

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    dcpgaus

    [5]Sep 9, 2013
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    My top five are:
    1. Tom Baker (funny and serious at the same time)
    2. David Tennant (made Doctor Who popular all over again)
    3. Peter Davidson (although I don't like his relationship with Tegan)
    4. Jon Pertwee (good relationship with all his companions I thought)
    5. Christopher Eccelston (brought back Doctor Who to the screen!)

    Other comments Sly McCoy - could have been great if he was able to have a few more seasons with Ace by his side
    Colin Baker - too many bad stories and bad relationships with Peri and Mel
    Matt Smith - too many stories badly scripted, too much dying and coming back to life...
    Pat Troughton and Will Hartnell - never saw much of their stories so I can't really judge
    Paul McGann - not fair to judge on one story
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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [6]Sep 13, 2013
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    dcpgaus wrote:
    My top five are: 1. Tom Baker (funny and serious at the same time) 2. David Tennant (made Doctor Who popular all over again) 3. Peter Davidson (although I don't like his relationship with Tegan) 4. Jon Pertwee (good relationship with all his companions I thought) 5. Christopher Eccelston (brought back Doctor Who to the screen!) Other comments Sly McCoy - could have been great if he was able to have a few more seasons with Ace by his side Colin Baker - too many bad stories and bad relationships with Peri and Mel Matt Smith - too many stories badly scripted, too much dying and coming back to life... Pat Troughton and Will Hartnell - never saw much of their stories so I can't really judge Paul McGann - not fair to judge on one story
    The movie was able to work McCoy in. I have never understood why the new show has never done anything for McGann. He should have been the forgotten Doctor at the end of season 7.

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    dcpgaus

    [7]Sep 14, 2013
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    archangelwho wrote:

    dcpgaus wrote:
    My top five are: 1. Tom Baker (funny and serious at the same time) 2. David Tennant (made Doctor Who popular all over again) 3. Peter Davidson (although I don't like his relationship with Tegan) 4. Jon Pertwee (good relationship with all his companions I thought) 5. Christopher Eccelston (brought back Doctor Who to the screen!) Other comments Sly McCoy - could have been great if he was able to have a few more seasons with Ace by his side Colin Baker - too many bad stories and bad relationships with Peri and Mel Matt Smith - too many stories badly scripted, too much dying and coming back to life... Pat Troughton and Will Hartnell - never saw much of their stories so I can't really judge Paul McGann - not fair to judge on one story
    The movie was able to work McCoy in. I have never understood why the new show has never done anything for McGann. He should have been the forgotten Doctor at the end of season 7.



    Yes - they really should have tried to get Paul to be the 'forgotten doctor/evil doctor'. Maybe he wasn't interested - or maybe they have plans to include more John Hurt stories down the line...
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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [8]Sep 14, 2013
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    I think the new team want us to forget that there was a Doctor Who before them and really want nothing to tie them to the old show. Unless these little side DVD extras where they can try and look as if they care but really it is just for show the $$$$ they can make off of it.

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    steamheaduk

    [9]Sep 14, 2013
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    archangelwho wrote:


    I think the new team want us to forget that there was a Doctor Who before them and really want nothing to tie them to the old show.



    Say what?


    We've had Daleks (even including classic era Daleks), Cybermen, Sontarans, Ice Warriors, Silurians/Dinosaurs and The Great Intelligence back this latest season alone (including very direct references to The Web of Fear a mostly lost episode - or maybe not!). Each one of them having their own story, and Ice Warriors and The Great Intelligence being new returnees this latest season. OK Sontarans didn't get their own story, but then Strax has appeared in more than one, and with Vastra we now have 2 classic era monsters elevated to recurring characters. And every single one of the stories was NOT an anniversary special story. That's 5 stories each with a different returning classic era enemy at it's heart, versus 1 new series returning enemy (the weeping angels) and compare that to the classic series which at it's peak only ever managed 3 returning enemies in one season, and only 2 in the Silver Anniversary year (when we didn't have a special either).


    Then in the Anniversary special itself we will get another classic monster back (which I won't name for spoiler sake, but most probably know which), a classic monster that has long been a fan favourite despite the fact the classic series only ever used them the once, yet the new series has already had them form part of one story (albeit not seen), plus 1 maybe 2 other classic era monsters that have already been in the new series, and it would seem a return to a very important classic era planet. And it appears another classic enemy for Matt's Christmas swan song


    Throughout the new series they have regularly shown flashbacks of all the previous Doctors (The Next Doctor, The Eleventh Hour to name a couple), Hartnell is on the Eleventh Doctor's Library card, they've even included "forgotten Doctor" McGann in these flashbacks (and he lives in the wasteland between classic and new series). Then, yet again not in an anniversary special, they took this to a whole new level carefully editing Hartnell in for the "stealing the TARDIS" scene, and including more that just a "face flash" of all the other Doctors. We also saw the return of the St John Ambulance badge on the TARDIS from Hartnell's era. They've even given "really fogotten Doctor" Richard E Grant a major role, though I wish they'd given him Hurt's part to bring Shalka into the canon, unfortunately he was already cast as the Great Intelligence by the time they found they needed a secret Doctor.


    Bear in mind the old series only very rarely showed any previous Doctors. Obviously there's the 2, 3 and 5 Doctors (2 of which being major anniversaries - and Dimensions in Time if you must, but also an Anniversary special), but then outside of that the only one that springs to mind where predecessors are shown was Brain of Morbius. I think there might be a few more, but it's late and I can't think of them, but it was certainly a rare event outside of anniversaries.


    We've also, in Moffatt's reign though not this season, had Autons and references to other old classic series races (I think I recall at least Drahvins, and possibly Draconians. and you SAW a Sea Devil in the 11th Hour), then RTD referred to the Sensorites and included a brief cameo of the Macra and gave us 2 incarnations of the Master (and Delgado's voice) plus Rassilon.


    This is REALLY NOT the behaviour of a team who wants us to forget that there was a Doctor Who before them and really want nothing to tie them to the old show.

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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [10]Sep 14, 2013
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    Bring monsters and other bad guys back is not the same as the Doctors and companions. Even with the Cybermen, they as far as we know, are not the same as the ones from the classic stories. They took the Cybermen and trying to make them their own.And doing the very least you can get away with in the hope of keeping the fans of the classic show in line is not the same as bring the past into the future. You forgot to add that they did bring Sarah Jane back. Point for them. Davison in due to being the father-in-law of Tennet. Yes you are correct that the classic did not work in the past too often but again not really the same. The moive worked in McCoy. I think it has to do with one era rememberinganother.

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  • Avatar of steamheaduk

    steamheaduk

    [11]Sep 16, 2013
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    archangelwho wrote:


    Bring monsters and other bad guys back is not the same as the Doctors and companions. Even with the Cybermen, they as far as we know, are not the same as the ones from the classic stories. They took the Cybermen and trying to make them their own.And doing the very least you can get away with in the hope of keeping the fans of the classic show in line is not the same as bring the past into the future. You forgot to add that they did bring Sarah Jane back. Point for them. Davison in due to being the father-in-law of Tennet. Yes you are correct that the classic did not work in the past too often but again not really the same. The moive worked in McCoy. I think it has to do with one era rememberinganother.



    Now you're just being a rather shameless pedantic ;-) Which I know is traditional for a Doctor Who fan, so I'll continue it ;-)


    I didn't forget Sarah Jane at all (or K-9), I very deliberately ignored her, to avoid any chance of a response of "ah well that was only to promote a spin-off series" (which it wasn't, it hadn't been decided at that point). Equally I ignored the Brigadier, because he only appeared in Sarah Jane Adventures, but was referenced in the new series, hell they even went to the effort of marking the passing of Nicholas Courtney on-screen, and have now, rather literally, spawned a new recurring character in his honour with direct parentage from the classic series. That's exactly my point, there's tonnes or references, and appearances of things from the classic series, whether reimagined or otherwise. Ace was also planned for a return in Sarah Jane Adventures, but sadly tragic events precluded that.


    So let's examine some of the pedantry - "Even with the Cybermen, they as far as we know, are not the same ones from the classic storied", even in the classic series they weren't the same ones. In the Tenth Planet the Doctor entirely destroyed them and their home planet the first time he saw them, and yet they came back, looking quite different (as they did many times in the classic era), and each time they come back they contrive some plot device to make it possible, e.g. We originally have Mondasian Cybermen, then we get a Telosian off-shoot (with possible Mondasian origins), and it appears in Silver Nemesis that the Doctor destroys the entire Cyber Fleet, making it rather difficult, yet again, to bring them back. So in the new series, a new plot device is needed to bring them back, so we get a parallel development FOR EXACTLY THE SAME REASONS as the originals. We now have another new offshoot with Nightmare In Silver, and like many things in the 50 year history of Doctor Who we have no real definitive clue to their origin, they could be Cybus, or Mondasian. We know the Cybus ones ended up dropping into the void and popping up in the past, they could just have easily turned up on Mondas and been the inspiration for the original Mondas people to improve themselves. We just don't know, but, in reference to your grossly incorrect statement "they want nothing to tie them to the old show", they brought the Cybermen back, if they wanted nothing to tie them to the old show, they wouldn't have, pure and simple. The classic series couldn't even keep the same Daleks, in 1963 they evolved from the Dals, in 1975 they evolved from the Kaleds, and this was even the same writer.


    And you say "Bring monsters and other bad guys back is not the same as the Doctors and companions.", why isn't it? In the context of the statement you made monsters are as much as a tie to the old series as Doctors and companions, and props (which even acknowledge 1963 as the build date of the TARDIS). If they didn't want anything to tie them to the old series they would no more use old monsters than old Doctors.


    You also try to suggest - "Yes you are correct that the classic did not work in the past too often but again not really the same.". Why not? If it's OK for the classic era not to tie into it's past, why isn't the new series allowed to have that luxury? Let's do a like for like over time. The new series has only run for 7 seasons and a few specials. Not as many episodes as the first 7 seasons of classic Who, so in theory New Who is at a disadvantage, but in those 7 series we have AT LEAST (I'm not going back and checking here, this is just what springs to mind instantly as memorable classic Doctor tie backs)-
    1. In Tennants "recostuming scene" you get to see many old Doctor costumes (apparently they are all in there, but not all get a good shot), you see various bits of Pertwee, Tom Baker's scarf, Colin Baker's cravat, they even show Tennant's costume from Casanova. The key thing here is that the "recostuming scene" is a classic Who tradition continued in the new series.
    2. The Fifth Doctor reappears in Time Crash, way before his daughter got involved with the series.
    3. A full 9 Doctor Flashback, clearly tieing Classic and New and even one-off Doctors together in The Next Doctor
    4. Then we have a 10 Doctor flash back in The Eleventh Hour, and a Sea Devil for good measure. And if you look carefully a red velvet smoking jacket (Pertwee), in the selection of clothing being carried.
    5. We get William Hartnell appear on the Doctor's library card in Vampire In Venice
    6. The most expansive tie between Doctors EVER performed, digitally resurrecting the first 3, including all KNOWN Doctors at that point and even adding in a new one for good measure. They even go so far as to put in a scene pre-classic era showing the stealing of the TARDIS, an obviously important event in the Doctor's history that the classic era never showed.


    In the same initial 7 year period of the classic series, you saw an earlier Doctor, err, well I can't actually think of any references over the same period, in fact it took 10 years before they did it for the first time. In it's entire 26 year history you only ever see ALL the classic Doctors up to that point a few times, in The Three Doctors, The Brain of Morbius and The Five Doctors, and if you want to push it Dimensions In Time. There may be others, as there may be more new series references, but it is sparse across the entire 50 years, but has been done more frequently in the new series than the old.

    Now you might want to argue that in it's first 7 years the classic series didn't have as much history to refer to, but that's exactly YOUR point, you said "and really want nothing to tie them to the old show.". In it's first 7 years the new show COULD have tried to ignore it's predecessor and have nothing to do with it, just writing a new series about a mad man in a box and establish it's own history, but instead it has deeply mined that rich vein of Doctors, Companions, Monsters, Locations and Props throughout it's, so far, much shorter tenure. In it's 50th Anniversary year the new series has brought back more recurring elements from the classic series, in full stories as well, than the classic series managed in its 25th Anniversary year.

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  • Avatar of dcpgaus

    dcpgaus

    [12]Sep 20, 2013
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    Gosh, I don't know if its safe to say anything on this topic! Everyone has an opinion about the show, the stars, the storylines, etc - and they don't always agree - but that should be ok - it would be boring if everyone agreed! A recent photo of Matt with a shaved head can be seen on a Doctor Who website. He would have looked way cooler as the Doctor with this look! It would be great if he looked like this on his last story...
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    archangelwho

    [13]Sep 21, 2013
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    dcpgaus wrote:
    Gosh, I don't know if its safe to say anything on this topic! Everyone has an opinion about the show, the stars, the storylines, etc - and they don't always agree - but that should be ok - it would be boring if everyone agreed! A recent photo of Matt with a shaved head can be seen on a Doctor Who website. He would have looked way cooler as the Doctor with this look! It would be great if he looked like this on his last story...


    I guess Karen Gillan starting a trend. Maybe for the 50th all the Doctors and companions, past and present,can shave their heads and put the hair up for sale for Children In Need.


    Disagree oragree with himyou have to admit that steamheaduk is a great writter and well informed. He should write a book from an outsider fan ponit of view.There are a few of youhere that when I put out a new post if I don't get a reply from than it just not the same.

    Edited on 09/21/2013 10:11am
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    pferreira86

    [14]Sep 22, 2013
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    dcpgaus wrote:
    Gosh, I don't know if its safe to say anything on this topic! Everyone has an opinion about the show, the stars, the storylines, etc - and they don't always agree - but that should be ok - it would be boring if everyone agreed! A recent photo of Matt with a shaved head can be seen on a Doctor Who website. He would have looked way cooler as the Doctor with this look! It would be great if he looked like this on his last story...
    No, he's using a wig unfortunately.

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    steamheaduk

    [15]Sep 23, 2013
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    btw, I don't disagree that it would be nice to see more classic Doctors in the show, but there are many reasons why that won't happen to the scale we would like, but "I think the new team want us to forget that there was a Doctor Who before them and really want nothing to tie them to the old show. " isn't one of them, as the huge amount of continuity references prove.

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    archangelwho

    [16]Sep 24, 2013
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    steamheaduk wrote:


    btw, I don't disagree that it would be nice to see more classic Doctors in the show, but there are many reasons why that won't happen to the scale we would like, but "I think the new team want us to forget that there was a Doctor Who before them and really want nothing to tie them to the old show. " isn't one of them, as the huge amount of continuity references prove.


    Yes but the real question is why don't you and some of the other here who are better writers and more informedwrite an outsider fan book on the history of Doctor Who. I would buy a few.

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    steamheaduk

    [17]Sep 30, 2013
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    archangelwho wrote:


    Yes but the real question is why don't you and some of the other here who are better writers and more informedwrite an outsider fan book on the history of Doctor Who. I would buy a few.



    Ironically, because of Time, or the distinct lack of it. I'm off to Poughkeepsie for a month on Sunday to start research on my next publication. I'm not sure at this stage whether it will be a book or a paper, it depends on how much we discover in the research. But it's a long time consuming process, before you even get to the writing.


    Just imagine how much research I'd have to do for a Doctor Who book, given how picky the audience are. I've just recently rewatched all of the Troughton (yes all of it, using reconstructions where necessary) with my Son and that took months to get through.

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    archangelwho

    [19]Sep 30, 2013
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    steamheaduk wrote:


    archangelwho wrote:


    Yes but the real question is why don't you and some of the other here who are better writers and more informedwrite an outsider fan book on the history of Doctor Who. I would buy a few.



    Ironically, because of Time, or the distinct lack of it. I'm off to Poughkeepsie for a month on Sunday to start research on my next publication. I'm not sure at this stage whether it will be a book or a paper, it depends on how much we discover in the research. But it's a long time consuming process, before you even get to the writing.


    Just imagine how much research I'd have to do for a Doctor Who book, given how picky the audience are. I've just recently rewatched all of the Troughton (yes all of it, using reconstructions where necessary) with my Son and that took months to get through.


    I understand but it would still be a great read from just reading your posts here. It is great that we can watch the Doctor with our kids. I have 3 neices who are big fans but at last all 3 have grown up and moved away. They keep telling me that we are going to have a Who weekend one day. Something for an old uncle to look forward to. My goddaugther and godson are big fan but my godson family moved 5 stated away. I had a nephew who was a fan when he was young but I went away to college and my brother and sister turn him away from Doctor Who. I'm working on my 3 kids a 5 years old and twin 4 years old. Have a great trip and I will keep you and your work in my prayers. By rhe way what do you write?

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    steamheaduk

    [20]Oct 1, 2013
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    archangelwho wrote:
    By rhe way what do you write?



    I'm an automation specialist for a large computer company, so professionally I'm a technical writer. This particular engagement is about how to optimally exploit mainframe power by splitting large workloads into parallel streams. I will be with a mainframe performance specialist, a database specialist and I will deal with how to dynamically schedule the workload into multiple streams. Sounds really dull, but to relieve the boredom we try and get as many references to a particular topic into the examples, so the mainframe specialist is concentrating on songs by Queen, and I will be sneaking in references to Doctor Who, given it's the 50th and all.


    I must admit I'd love to have the time to do it, but I'd need to think of an angle not already done. Though what I have considered is creating a database system to allow a very detailed guide to be built for a large universe of fiction. So if you imagine something like a Wiki or the TV.com episode guide, but with lots of different types of cross tagging, so you could, for example pick a particular race and see which episodes they primarily appeared, which ones they appeared in flashback, which ones they were "there but not seen" (e.g. The hotel run by Zygons) and the then where they are just referred to as an anecdote. As well as races also allow tags of locations, vehicles and concepts (e.g. regeneration). Each reference would show the type of appearance and the time code in the episode, making it much easier to find the answer to any topic. Then I could "write" in a way that allows anyone to mine the depths of Doctor Who continuity. Problem is I'd need about a month of clear time to get the technology under way before anything could be built, and I can't see myself getting that amount of time until I retire.

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