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BBC (ended 1989)

Supporters of Colin Baker #6 Doctor

  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [81]Jun 11, 2013
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    pferreira86 wrote:


    archangelwho wrote:


    It would take some effort to bring him back. It was the working environment (having to put up with John Barrowman everyday) that made him leave in the first place. Also I know from previous posts you've always wanted that JNT documentary. What ever you do don't watch the 'Come in Number 5' documentary on the Resurrection of the Daleks DVD. From what I've heard JNT is criticised pretty much all the way through.


    Talk about putting things off I just got around to checking this out, or at least I don't remember checking it out until last week. I could not find the "Come in Number 5" documentary. I did listen to the Commentary and they did make a few remarks anout JNT both postive and negative. I wish that they had gone into more detail about the issue(s) that they felt was the cost of some of JNT behaviors.


    [/QUOTE]The documentary is on the Resurrection of the Daleks Special Edition DVD and is hosted by David Tennent.


    [/QUOTE] Those *&^%@#!!! Special Edition. They just keep coming up with ways for us to spend our money on the same product. VHS, DVD, Blue Ray, Special Editon. What is next. I have almost comlpete the Doctor Who DVDs. I don't know if I want to start over but I really like the extras.

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    pferreira86

    [82]Jun 16, 2013
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    archangelwho wrote:


    pferreira86 wrote:


    archangelwho wrote:


    It would take some effort to bring him back. It was the working environment (having to put up with John Barrowman everyday) that made him leave in the first place. Also I know from previous posts you've always wanted that JNT documentary. What ever you do don't watch the 'Come in Number 5' documentary on the Resurrection of the Daleks DVD. From what I've heard JNT is criticised pretty much all the way through.


    Talk about putting things off I just got around to checking this out, or at least I don't remember checking it out until last week. I could not find the "Come in Number 5" documentary. I did listen to the Commentary and they did make a few remarks anout JNT both postive and negative. I wish that they had gone into more detail about the issue(s) that they felt was the cost of some of JNT behaviors.


    The documentary is on the Resurrection of the Daleks Special Edition DVD and is hosted by David Tennent.


    [/QUOTE] Those *&^%@#!!! Special Edition. They just keep coming up with ways for us to spend our money on the same product. VHS, DVD, Blue Ray, Special Editon. What is next. I have almost comlpete the Doctor Who DVDs. I don't know if I want to start over but I really like the extras.


    [/QUOTE]It's part of Revisitations 2.

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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [83]Jun 16, 2013
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    [/QUOTE] Talk about putting things off I just got around to checking this out, or at least I don't remember checking it out until last week. I could not find the "Come in Number 5" documentary. I did listen to the Commentary and they did make a few remarks anout JNT both postive and negative. I wish that they had gone into more detail about the issue(s) that they felt was the cost of some of JNT behaviors.


    [/QUOTE]The documentary is on the Resurrection of the Daleks Special Edition DVD and is hosted by David Tennent.


    [/QUOTE] Those *&^%@#!!! Special Edition. They just keep coming up with ways for us to spend our money on the same product. VHS, DVD, Blue Ray, Special Editon. What is next. I have almost comlpete the Doctor Who DVDs. I don't know if I want to start over but I really like the extras.


    [/QUOTE]It's part of Revisitations 2.


    [/QUOTE] Where can I find Revistations 2?

    Edited on 06/16/2013 6:10pm
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  • Avatar of pferreira86

    pferreira86

    [84]Jun 23, 2013
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    On ebay, or in a DVD store?

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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [85]Jul 14, 2013
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    Are the Revistations you are referring to the same on sale by BBC America Shop where they have package one story per Doctor and are selling them as a box set? Revistation 1 has Doctors 1-4? Revistation has Doctors 5-8? Or is it an extra on Resuurrection of the Daleks? Sorry if I'm being slow here.


    I just did a search and found out that Revistations are box sets. There are 3 of them with3 Special Editon of stories of stories that have already been released. I guess we could just go right to the search sites but that would cut out the interactionwe have here. The thing isother than a few posters the interaction here has greatly slowed down. This is notonly a problem on the two Doctor Who pages but tv com over all.

    Edited on 07/23/2013 11:59am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of pferreira86

    pferreira86

    [86]Aug 5, 2013
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    archangelwho wrote:


    Are the Revistations you are referring to the same on sale by BBC America Shop where they have package one story per Doctor and are selling them as a box set? Revistation 1 has Doctors 1-4? Revistation has Doctors 5-8? Or is it an extra on Resuurrection of the Daleks? Sorry if I'm being slow here.


    I just did a search and found out that Revistations are box sets. There are 3 of them with3 Special Editon of stories of stories that have already been released. I guess we could just go right to the search sites but that would cut out the interactionwe have here. The thing isother than a few posters the interaction here has greatly slowed down. This is notonly a problem on the two Doctor Who pages but tv com over all.


    Yes they are special editions. I saw the documentary of the 5th Doctor over my holiday. It was pretty good bar grumbles from some of the people interviewed.

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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [87]Mar 11, 2014
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    2014 is the 30th anniversary of Colin Baker 1st playing the Doctor and he has been true to the show every sense. Maybe I just pull for the underdogs or don't like people being bullie but over the years I have become a big fan of Colin Baker and as that has happen I have become more of a fan of his time as the Doctor. Maybe it the 30 years.

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    dcpgaus

    [88]Mar 13, 2014
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    archangelwho wrote:

    2014 is the 30th anniversary of Colin Baker 1st playing the Doctor and he has been true to the show every sense. Maybe I just pull for the underdogs or don't like people being bullie but over the years I have become a big fan of Colin Baker and as that has happen I have become more of a fan of his time as the Doctor. Maybe it the 30 years.



    In Australia, they have reshown all episodes of Doctor Who No. 4 to No. 7. I have to say that most of Doctor No. 6 stories aren't that interesting - and several are the worst ever! Timelash springs to mind - its embarrassing watching this - and Twin Dilemma must be the worst first story for any Doctor! Peri and the Doctor argue all the time - and then Melanie comes along and doesn't make things any better. And the Trial storyline is convoluted and in parts boring! While most of this is not Colin's fault, unfortunately viewers probably don't remember his time as the Doctor with much fondness.
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  • Avatar of archangelwho

    archangelwho

    [89]Mar 14, 2014
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    dcpgaus wrote:
    archangelwho wrote:


    2014 is the 30th anniversary of Colin Baker 1st playing the Doctor and he has been true to the show every sense. Maybe I just pull for the underdogs or don't like people being bullie but over the years I have become a big fan of Colin Baker and as that has happen I have become more of a fan of his time as the Doctor. Maybe it the 30 years.


    In Australia, they have reshown all episodes of Doctor Who No. 4 to No. 7. I have to say that most of Doctor No. 6 stories aren't that interesting - and several are the worst ever! Timelash springs to mind - its embarrassing watching this - and Twin Dilemma must be the worst first story for any Doctor! Peri and the Doctor argue all the time - and then Melanie comes along and doesn't make things any better. And the Trial storyline is convoluted and in parts boring! While most of this is not Colin's fault, unfortunately viewers probably don't remember his time as the Doctor with much fondness.


    I agree with you about the fans and their views about Colin time as the Doctor. Even the person who worte the rate the Doctors post in the Doctor Who Community page in her (?) list of Doctors was ended with "And of course last Colin Baker." or something along that line. I just don't have "and of course" as a good reason to do anything. Give me some real reason, think for yourself and stop doing what is fad. You will never get me to say that his time was the best. There was a lot that went wrong during that time. But even the most anti-6th Doctor Colin Baker should be appreciative of what he has done for the show after his time. His DVD extras are some of the best and unlike Tom Baker who at times have acted as if the fans owe him something Colin Baker seems to be very appreciative of the fans even the ones who are not fans of his.

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    steamheaduk

    [90]Mar 16, 2014
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    Colin is my favourite of the Eighties Doctors by a long stretch. Six himself summed up his predecessor's "feckless charm", I found his incarnation a breath of fresh air after 5. And even better in audio form.


    The times I've met him he's a class act, and great guy. At an event last year my youngest son was chatting to Terry Molloy, who was sat next to Colin, and mischievously Terry asked my son who his favourite Doctor was, to which he replied honestly - Patrick Troughton. So Terry then turns round to Colin and says did you hear that? Colin hadn't so the question was asked again, and my son gave the same answer, to which Colin replied GOOD ANSWER, and you could see he genuinely meant it.

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    archangelwho

    [91]Mar 22, 2014
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    He of all of them would be my 1st choice to meet yet they never make it close to where I live.

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    pferreira86

    [92]Mar 23, 2014
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    steamheaduk wrote:


    The times I've met him he's a class act, and great guy. At an event last year my youngest son was chatting to Terry Molloy, who was sat next to Colin, and mischievously Terry asked my son who his favourite Doctor was, to which he replied honestly - Patrick Troughton. So Terry then turns round to Colin and says did you hear that? Colin hadn't so the question was asked again, and my son gave the same answer, to which Colin replied GOOD ANSWER, and you could see he genuinely meant it.


    I'm always interested to know what it is about classic Doctor Who that attracts young children. You'd think it would be too dated for them to watch.

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    archangelwho

    [93]Mar 23, 2014
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    pferreira86 wrote:


    steamheaduk wrote:


    The times I've met him he's a class act, and great guy. At an event last year my youngest son was chatting to Terry Molloy, who was sat next to Colin, and mischievously Terry asked my son who his favourite Doctor was, to which he replied honestly - Patrick Troughton. So Terry then turns round to Colin and says did you hear that? Colin hadn't so the question was asked again, and my son gave the same answer, to which Colin replied GOOD ANSWER, and you could see he genuinely meant it.


    I'm always interested to know what it is about classic Doctor Who that attracts young children. You'd think it would be too dated for them to watch.


    My goddaughter who just turned 11 has been a Doctor Who fan since the age of 3. My godson who just turned 9 the same. Both will even today watch the B/W ones. My godson moverd out of state a few years ago and we don't see him as often. We hadhim this past summer after 3 years of not seeing him and the first thing he asked when we got him to our house was if he would watch the Cybermaen.My goddaughter look forward to the new releases of the old showa as much as I do. Matt Smith is #1 on her list with Jon Pertwee #2.Eccleston nor Tennant was able to replace Pertwee on her list. She has a classmate who is a fan of the new Doctor Who and my goddaughter has turned her on to the classic and now she is a fan. These classic Who are nothing like anything else that they watch but they are real fans, I have been trying to work it out for years. I don't ask them about it too much I know want them to start thinking that they should not like it. My oldest nephew in the 80s was a big fan also at the age of 3.I moved away when it was around 6 and a member of the N.A. Doctor Who fan club.My brother turned him away from the show and today this day he will not watch the clissic or the new show.

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    archangelwho

    [94]Jul 9, 2014
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    As I continue to learn more of the going on in the BBC and Doctor Who I'm starting to believe that many of us fans may have been over looking the real cause of the problems of the Doctor Who in the 80s.Yes JNT made some poor choices but at the same time he had stated that he had been on the show too long and asked for a transsfer. In fact JNT had been told he would be transfer at the end of the Colin Bake years and did not do any prep work for McCoy's first year until at the last second when no one else would take the show and JNT was forced to return.


    While many of us debate theblame placing it between C. Bkaer & JNT it seem a lot of the blame should far on Micheal Grade who did not like Doctor Who or any sci-fi, was a close friend of Bakers's ex-wife and many felt his attack on Baker and the show was personal and he referred to Doctor Who fans as "pointy heads". Once Grade took over nothing could have saved Doctor Who or Colin Baker who Grade is reported saying that he did not Colin Baker working for the BBC anywhere.

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    steamheaduk

    [95]Jul 10, 2014
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    Doctor Who got hit by a "Perfect Storm" in the Eighties, of which Grade and JNT were only part of.


    Here are some of the contributing factors -


    1. Massive style change. Tom Baker held the part for 7 years, in the public's eye he WAS Doctor Who. JNT came in and changed the style massively (theme tune went to wimpy 80s synths, title sequence lost the vortex, no sonic, Doctor being part of an ensemble rather than lead). Whilst this was an attempt to rejuvenate the show after Tom, it backfired and lost a lot of long term fans. The audience target was also altered with a more pantomime style aimed at younger kids rather than the more inclusive style of old with it's semi serious scariness.


    2. Budget, it had been declining for a LONG time, it had always been low budget but generally the stories worked within the budget. You could see this beginning leading up to the 80s. When you talk to some of the directors from the period they will tell you that they had almost ZERO time for reshoots, they had to spend so much time setting up for any shots that involved effects, unless there was a major blooper they went with very few takes - so no real time to do things like "try that again, only angrier". This has an end result of making the acting look poor as you pretty much get the "warm up take" most of the time.


    3. Channel 4 launches in 1982. Up until now there was only BBC1, BBC2 and ITV in the UK. ITV was a collection of regional stations without a cohesive schedule, so not really a "competitor" at this point. Channel 4 came along and gave competition to the BBC, which it wasn't that used to.


    4. ITV got it's act together. Though still regional stations, they started to form a more cohesive schedule that would put their big hitting shows on at the same time across all the regions, giving the BBC more competition. With this new found co-operation they were also able to import better shows together, so Doctor Who started to find itself up against bigger budget shows from the US.


    5. Michael Grade, yes there was a personal vendetta there, but he also had some valid points. ITV had managed to produce "Robin of Sherwood" which had much higher production values than Doctor Who had. When Grade forced Who into a rest after season 22 he stated he wanted the higher production values when it came back - but it didn't. Some of that was inevitably down to budget, but not all of it. JNT appeared to believe "better production values" meant better special effects and opened season 23 with the best model shot Doctor Who had ever had, but that left the rest of the budget poorer, and it showed.


    6. Scheduling changes. With the rise of ITV and Channel 4 the show started being scheduled during the week, aside from being seen as "running from the competition" which didn't help the public perception, it also vacated it's strongest position as being part of the traditional British Weekend.


    When Who came back the style was back to being more inclusive with a semi serious tone, and scary sinister moments. The theme tune was back from Synthesiser Hell, the Doctor wasn't in an ensemble, the opening credits had the vortex back (it also travels in time), the sonic was back, the budget was up, the production values were up and it was back where it should be, on Saturdays. And guess what, it was back to being a success.

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    archangelwho

    [96]Jul 13, 2014
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    From the reading I have done over the past few weeks it seems that the view of Baker is like the 1960 Kennedy/Nixon presidential debates. Those who watched the debates on TV felt Kennedy won. Those who listen to the debates on the radio felt Nixon had won. In fact some feels that if the debates had not been on TV Kennedy would have lost. The fans of Baker's audio dramas have a much higher view of Baker as the Doctor than his time on TV.It is nice to read that he is starting to get the respect that he deserves.

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    pferreira86

    [97]Jul 20, 2014
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    steamheaduk wrote:


    The audience target was also altered with a more pantomime style aimed at younger kids rather than the more inclusive style of old with it's semi serious scariness.


    Oh right because stories before JTN took over like Creature from the Pit, The Horns of Nimon and Nightmare of Eden were completely serious and credible.Wink


    Doctor Who has always been overly theatrical and pantomime. I don't know why people keep saying it was only like this after JNT took over.Frown

    Edited on 07/20/2014 1:19pm
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    archangelwho

    [98]Jul 21, 2014
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    pferreira86 wrote:


    steamheaduk wrote:


    The audience target was also altered with a more pantomime style aimed at younger kids rather than the more inclusive style of old with it's semi serious scariness.


    Oh right because stories before JTN took over like Creature from the Pit, The Horns of Nimon and Nightmare of Eden were completely serious and credible.Wink


    Doctor Who has always been overly theatrical and pantomime. I don't know why people keep saying it was only like this after JNT took over.Frown


    I think because of the way JNT did things and the poor judgements he made it was just easy to blame everything on him. I think many did the same thing with Colin Baker also. Everything just kind of got lump together.

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    steamheaduk

    [99]Jul 21, 2014
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    pferreira86 wrote:


    Doctor Who has always been overly theatrical and pantomime. I don't know why people keep saying it was only like this after JNT took over.Frown



    No it hasn't always been overly theatrical and pantomime, but it HAS always been a family show, so to that degree it is theatrical, but not always overly so, and certainly not pantomime. For example Pertwee's era went for a more action based approach, even having an in-house stunt team, known as Havoc, to provide most of the thrills and spills (many Unit grunts were members of Havoc). Hinchcliffe went for the Gothic Horror approach, about as far away from Pantomime as you could get.


    Eden, Pit and Nimon, are of course in JNT's era, he was Production Unit Manager at this point, but Graham Williams was in charge at this point. Williams era bought more comedy into Who, unavoidable I guess with Douglas Adams involved, but his last season was servely shown up by being over ambitious for the budget. Whilst cheesy, not deliberately pantomime.


    But as for why people lay the pantomime label at JNT, well that's entirely his own doing. He gleefully talked of his love of pantomime in interviews, and bringing that "magic" into the show. He cast many variety or comedy stars in guest roles, not well known for their serious acting prowess, such as Ken Dodd, Hale and Pace, Nicholas Parsons, Stubby Kaye, Richard Briers, Joan Sims, Tony Selby, Beryl Reid etc. Even casting Bonnie Langford as Mel, who up to this point was mostly famous for singing and dancing and the immortal Violet Elizabeth Bott in Just William with the classic line of "I'll skweem and skweem until I'm sick - and I can". And of course not forgetting that during JNTs reign many years of the Wimbledon Theatre Pantomime boasted a large Doctor Who element in the cast, deliberately so.


    Of course how you perceive the quality of Doctor Who before JNT, largely depends upon when you watched it first time. If you watched it on first transmission the show largely held it's own against other shows until during the Graham Williams era, when budget really showed it up against contemporary shows. But if you watch old Who after the fact, it all looks rather cheesy when measured against today's standards.


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    pferreira86

    [100]Jul 27, 2014
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    I don't see how you can separate one from the other unless it's nostalgia at work here. If you go back further you have stories like The Green Death and The Hand of Fear that are so OTT and kitsch it doesn't look like anything that couldn't have appeared in the JNT era. Graham Williams era budget has nothing to do with JNT, it's to do with the BBC. Even JNT hated the cheapness of Season 17.


    You've pointed also to a lot of actors who have done light entertainment but JNT also managed to get a lot of respected actors as well so it doesn't seem to make sense he was trying for pantomime acting. The actors you've mentioned , some at least like Nicholas Parsons have put in decent performances so good call. Also remember the new series also has employed comedians or other light entertainment personalities to do the show and by the casual fans at least there don't seem to have been any complaints. Hey, you're not telling me John Barrowman hasn't brought more pantomime to Doctor Who than Beryl Reid.Wink

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