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BBC (ended 1989)

Worst introduction for a companion ?

  • Avatar of dcpgaus

    dcpgaus

    [1]Dec 13, 2013
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    I've just watched the Keeper of Traken followed by Logopolis. Traken was great - one of my favourites, great story, very good supporting characters, great interior shots and realistic outdoor shots (I know the trees aren't real!), the Master is great and has a reason for being in the story and Nyssa starts her run. But then we get Logopolis and Nyssa begins as a companion. How did she get to Logopolis ? The Watcher took her there - really ? By magic I assume. I love Nyssa as a companion - but the explanation for her beginning as a companion has to be one of the worst ?


    What does everyone else think ? Were there other badly introduced companions ? I think Dodo is probably one of them !

    Edited on 12/14/2013 8:13am
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    steamheaduk

    [2]Dec 13, 2013
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    I think Mel probably did worst, in that we joined her adventures with the Doctor part way through.


    Kameleon didn't get that good a deal either, not so much his introduction, but having been introduced then stuck in a spare room until his last story.

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    pferreira86

    [3]Dec 15, 2013
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    dcpgaus wrote:


    I've just watched the Keeper of Traken followed by Logopolis. Traken was great - one of my favourites, great story, very good supporting characters, great interior shots and realistic outdoor shots (I know the trees aren't real!), the Master is great and has a reason for being in the story and Nyssa starts her run. But then we get Logopolis and Nyssa begins as a companion. How did she get to Logopolis ? The Watcher took her there - really ? By magic I assume. I love Nyssa as a companion - but the explanation for her beginning as a companion has to be one of the worst ?


    What does everyone else think ? Were there other badly introduced companions ? I think Dodo is probably one of them !


    Nyssa was added to the scripts for Logopolis at short notice. JNT only realised she could become a good companion after they finished shooting Keeper of Traken.

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    dcpgaus

    [4]Dec 16, 2013
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    pferreira86 wrote:


    dcpgaus wrote:


    I've just watched the Keeper of Traken followed by Logopolis. Traken was great - one of my favourites, great story, very good supporting characters, great interior shots and realistic outdoor shots (I know the trees aren't real!), the Master is great and has a reason for being in the story and Nyssa starts her run. But then we get Logopolis and Nyssa begins as a companion. How did she get to Logopolis ? The Watcher took her there - really ? By magic I assume. I love Nyssa as a companion - but the explanation for her beginning as a companion has to be one of the worst ?


    What does everyone else think ? Were there other badly introduced companions ? I think Dodo is probably one of them !


    Nyssa was added to the scripts for Logopolis at short notice. JNT only realised she could become a good companion after they finished shooting Keeper of Traken.


    I realise that - but her introduction was crap! I love Nyssa - she and Tegan were good together - but all three of them (Adric too) - too many in the Tardis.


    Looking back, the poor introductions were: Katrina - introduced at the last moment to replace Vicki - and then killed off! Wow!


    Dodo - another last minute replacement, this time for Katrina/Sara. And she has the worst final episode too! Poor baby.


    Nyssa - as mentioned already. Lovely companion, poorly explained introduction into Logopolis.


    Kamelion - poor robot, nothing like K9. Joined the Tardis, instantly forgotten for many stories, and then killed off! By the Doctor no less...


    Mel - while her first story was not too bad (I liked the Vervoid story), nobody understood how she appeared out of the blue!

    Edited on 12/16/2013 6:44am
    Edited 2 total times.
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    archangelwho

    [5]Jan 5, 2014
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    Yes Mel and Dodo would be two of the three that stands out for me. Ace would be another. Rani caused some kind of time storm and it just happen to pick Ace up and move her lightyears away. I know there is some kind of storyline behind Ace's past but I have never been able to work it out. Maybe it is because the show ended before they finished Ace's story, maybe it is because McCoy was never one of my top Doctors and though I have all of his stories I have never seen them in oder. May need to do that the next break I have. Or maybe because I have never been the sharpest knife in the drawer. Being more of a spoon than a knife I do miss a lot of things.

    Edited on 01/05/2014 11:44am
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    dcpgaus

    [6]Jan 23, 2014
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    archangelwho wrote:

    Yes Mel and Dodo would be two of the three that stands out for me. Ace would be another. Rani caused some kind of time storm and it just happen to pick Ace up and move her lightyears away. I know there is some kind of storyline behind Ace's past but I have never been able to work it out. Maybe it is because the show ended before they finished Ace's story, maybe it is because McCoy was never one of my top Doctors and though I have all of his stories I have never seen them in oder. May need to do that the next break I have. Or maybe because I have never been the sharpest knife in the drawer. Being more of a spoon than a knife I do miss a lot of things.



    Yes Ace story was explained in the Fernic story. Apparently Fenric used her to get to the Doctor . A bit convoluted but I loved this scary story.
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    archangelwho

    [7]Jan 24, 2014
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    dcpgaus wrote:
    archangelwho wrote:


    Yes Mel and Dodo would be two of the three that stands out for me. Ace would be another. Rani caused some kind of time storm and it just happen to pick Ace up and move her lightyears away. I know there is some kind of storyline behind Ace's past but I have never been able to work it out. Maybe it is because the show ended before they finished Ace's story, maybe it is because McCoy was never one of my top Doctors and though I have all of his stories I have never seen them in oder. May need to do that the next break I have. Or maybe because I have never been the sharpest knife in the drawer. Being more of a spoon than a knife I do miss a lot of things.


    Yes Ace story was explained in the Fernic story. Apparently Fenric used her to get to the Doctor . A bit convoluted but I loved this scary story.
    I have to rewatch Ace's 1st story & Fernic. I was thinking it was Rani who lead t Ace becoming waitress on a far away world.

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    pferreira86

    [8]Jan 26, 2014
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    archangelwho wrote:


    dcpgaus wrote:
    archangelwho wrote:


    Yes Mel and Dodo would be two of the three that stands out for me. Ace would be another. Rani caused some kind of time storm and it just happen to pick Ace up and move her lightyears away. I know there is some kind of storyline behind Ace's past but I have never been able to work it out. Maybe it is because the show ended before they finished Ace's story, maybe it is because McCoy was never one of my top Doctors and though I have all of his stories I have never seen them in oder. May need to do that the next break I have. Or maybe because I have never been the sharpest knife in the drawer. Being more of a spoon than a knife I do miss a lot of things.


    Yes Ace story was explained in the Fernic story. Apparently Fenric used her to get to the Doctor . A bit convoluted but I loved this scary story.
    I have to rewatch Ace's 1st story & Fernic. I was thinking it was Rani who lead t Ace becoming waitress on a far away world.


    The Rani? How?

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    archangelwho

    [9]Jan 28, 2014
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    pferreira86 wrote:


    archangelwho wrote:


    dcpgaus wrote:
    archangelwho wrote:


    Yes Mel and Dodo would be two of the three that stands out for me. Ace would be another. Rani caused some kind of time storm and it just happen to pick Ace up and move her lightyears away. I know there is some kind of storyline behind Ace's past but I have never been able to work it out. Maybe it is because the show ended before they finished Ace's story, maybe it is because McCoy was never one of my top Doctors and though I have all of his stories I have never seen them in oder. May need to do that the next break I have. Or maybe because I have never been the sharpest knife in the drawer. Being more of a spoon than a knife I do miss a lot of things.


    Yes Ace story was explained in the Fernic story. Apparently Fenric used her to get to the Doctor . A bit convoluted but I loved this scary story.
    I have to rewatch Ace's 1st story & Fernic. I was thinking it was Rani who lead t Ace becoming waitress on a far away world.


    The Rani? How?


    I remember the Doctor and Rani talking about Ace. Now my wife tells meoften that I remember things that never happen or was never said so I could be wrong.


    Edited on 01/28/2014 10:31am
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  • Avatar of dcpgaus

    dcpgaus

    [10]Feb 1, 2014
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    Talking about the Rani - she was so good in her first story - but after that, her stories were bad - and the character became another crazy (and unbelievable) villain. I think this is the problem with the Master too, when Anthony took over - the character became a laughing loon - too hard to take seriously - and then he was supposed to die so many times and never did. You start to lose interest in such characters...
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    archangelwho

    [11]Feb 1, 2014
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    dcpgaus wrote:
    Talking about the Rani - she was so good in her first story - but after that, her stories were bad - and the character became another crazy (and unbelievable) villain. I think this is the problem with the Master too, when Anthony took over - the character became a laughing loon - too hard to take seriously - and then he was supposed to die so many times and never did. You start to lose interest in such characters...


    I agree. It was as if they did not know how to handle the Master and the 2005 team really made a mess it him. In my view the worst David t. stories were the ones with the Master. I wish they have nver had him to return. He was nolonger a villain but justa nut case who should have ben locked away and med.

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    pferreira86

    [12]Feb 2, 2014
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    archangelwho wrote:


    pferreira86 wrote:


    archangelwho wrote:


    dcpgaus wrote:
    archangelwho wrote:


    Yes Mel and Dodo would be two of the three that stands out for me. Ace would be another. Rani caused some kind of time storm and it just happen to pick Ace up and move her lightyears away. I know there is some kind of storyline behind Ace's past but I have never been able to work it out. Maybe it is because the show ended before they finished Ace's story, maybe it is because McCoy was never one of my top Doctors and though I have all of his stories I have never seen them in oder. May need to do that the next break I have. Or maybe because I have never been the sharpest knife in the drawer. Being more of a spoon than a knife I do miss a lot of things.


    Yes Ace story was explained in the Fernic story. Apparently Fenric used her to get to the Doctor . A bit convoluted but I loved this scary story.
    I have to rewatch Ace's 1st story & Fernic. I was thinking it was Rani who lead t Ace becoming waitress on a far away world.


    The Rani? How?


    I remember the Doctor and Rani talking about Ace. Now my wife tells meoften that I remember things that never happen or was never said so I could be wrong.


    I think you are wrong this time. The last appearance of the Rani was featured in Time and the Rani which was three stories before Ace came on in Dragonfire.


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    steamheaduk

    [13]Feb 2, 2014
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    I quite liked the Sound of Drums Master, the one thing that really bugged me with the way the OLD series treated the Master was they ignored his regeneration, so they were all Mwahaha arch villains (OK Peter Pratt's 13th Master not so much in Deadly Assasin, but Geoffrey Beavers arched it up again in Traken). Whereas every Doctor has had very distinct personalities, the Master didn't. So I quite liked seeing a different "unhinged evil" instead of the usual "arch evil". I thought that aspect would work very well if developed further, but then in End of Time it was back to arch evil again with bizarre electric bolt powers out of nowhere.

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    dcpgaus

    [14]Feb 3, 2014
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    steamheaduk wrote:

    I quite liked the Sound of Drums Master, the one thing that really bugged me with the way the OLD series treated the Master was they ignored his regeneration, so they were all Mwahaha arch villains (OK Peter Pratt's 13th Master not so much in Deadly Assasin, but Geoffrey Beavers arched it up again in Traken). Whereas every Doctor has had very distinct personalities, the Master didn't. So I quite liked seeing a different "unhinged evil" instead of the usual "arch evil". I thought that aspect would work very well if developed further, but then in End of Time it was back to arch evil again with bizarre electric bolt powers out of nowhere.



    I understand what you're saying about seeing another facet of the Master in the new series - but the scene with the Master eating meat like an animal and the scene where the Master populates the world with many, many, many Masters - was just too crazy and juvenile for me. I liked the version of the Master - where he couldn't remember who he was - the version before he became John Sims. Much more restrained performance by the older actor (Derek Jacobi) - and quite touching.
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    steamheaduk

    [15]Feb 3, 2014
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    dcpgaus wrote:
    steamheaduk wrote:


    I quite liked the Sound of Drums Master, the one thing that really bugged me with the way the OLD series treated the Master was they ignored his regeneration, so they were all Mwahaha arch villains (OK Peter Pratt's 13th Master not so much in Deadly Assasin, but Geoffrey Beavers arched it up again in Traken). Whereas every Doctor has had very distinct personalities, the Master didn't. So I quite liked seeing a different "unhinged evil" instead of the usual "arch evil". I thought that aspect would work very well if developed further, but then in End of Time it was back to arch evil again with bizarre electric bolt powers out of nowhere.


    I understand what you're saying about seeing another facet of the Master in the new series - but the scene with the Master eating meat like an animal and the scene where the Master populates the world with many, many, many Masters - was just too crazy and juvenile for me. I liked the version of the Master - where he couldn't remember who he was - the version before he became John Sims. Much more restrained performance by the older actor (Derek Jacobi) - and quite touching.


    Which is why I said I like the Sound of Drums Master, it showed promise as a new approach, that's what I'd hoped they would develop, instead it all went pear shaped in The End of Time.

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    archangelwho

    [16]Feb 7, 2014
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    dcpgaus wrote:
    steamheaduk wrote:


    I quite liked the Sound of Drums Master, the one thing that really bugged me with the way the OLD series treated the Master was they ignored his regeneration, so they were all Mwahaha arch villains (OK Peter Pratt's 13th Master not so much in Deadly Assasin, but Geoffrey Beavers arched it up again in Traken). Whereas every Doctor has had very distinct personalities, the Master didn't. So I quite liked seeing a different "unhinged evil" instead of the usual "arch evil". I thought that aspect would work very well if developed further, but then in End of Time it was back to arch evil again with bizarre electric bolt powers out of nowhere.


    I understand what you're saying about seeing another facet of the Master in the new series - but the scene with the Master eating meat like an animal and the scene where the Master populates the world with many, many, many Masters - was just too crazy and juvenile for me. I liked the version of the Master - where he couldn't remember who he was - the version before he became John Sims. Much more restrained performance by the older actor (Derek Jacobi) - and quite touching.


    Derek Jacob has always been on the top of my list and I felt he would have made a great Doctor and after seeing him as the Master I think he would have made a great Master. If they can do a Time War Doctor why not bring him back at the Time War Master.

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