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Dollhouse Forums

FOX (ended 2010)

2 Episodes In, What's Your Opinion?

What do you think?

  • Avatar of Lady_Lancaster

    Lady_Lancaster

    [1]Oct 4, 2009
    • member since: 05/27/09
    • level: 41
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    Hi Guys,

    Ratings aside, as fans, what do you think so far? The first few episodes are usually very important in a new season and fan reactions are apparently at their strongest one way or another.

    So, your opinions?

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  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [2]Oct 4, 2009
    • member since: 08/11/06
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    Decent so far, definitely needs more twist and turns.
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  • Avatar of SeerMagicX

    SeerMagicX

    [3]Oct 4, 2009
    • member since: 05/11/04
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 859
    "eh" sums it up for me
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  • Avatar of Jon_MW_14

    Jon_MW_14

    [4]Oct 4, 2009
    • member since: 10/24/06
    • level: 39
    • rank: Fonzerelli
    • posts: 3,223
    I think the first two episodes were brilliant.
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  • Avatar of Vesper-Lynd

    Vesper-Lynd

    [5]Oct 4, 2009
    • member since: 04/28/09
    • level: 18
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    Vows was fantastic. Instinct, not so much.
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  • Avatar of michael_LB92

    michael_LB92

    [6]Oct 5, 2009
    • member since: 04/11/07
    • level: 24
    • rank: Golden Girl
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    Agree with Vesper. The second episode was very lacktastic.

    I'm glad they are getting right into it though. Paul & Caroline are obviously already planning to take down the house, Madeline has returned, there's a new guy on the Dollhouse's trail.

    I still find the engagements very, very boring. It's also very predictable and repetetive when they go astray somehow. I would prefer to see interesting engagements get completed without a hassle, rather than see standard engagements frak up for some glitchy reason.
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  • Avatar of Jacks_Son

    Jacks_Son

    [7]Oct 5, 2009
    • member since: 11/29/05
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
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    For me, I find this series becoming increasingly frustrating. The engagements are just not very believable. In episode two, "Vows", Echo is married to a guy who is an arms dealer? How is this even possible and believable. Who hired the Dollhouse for this assignment? Was it for altruistic reasons or was there some organization that hired the Dollhouse to infiltrate the arms dealer's home? How long was Echo seeing the guy before they got married? No explanations are given and it just seems like a given scenario is pressented, and the audience is just supposed to accept it.

    The next episode, "Instinct" is even worse. A guy hires an Active because he wants to bond with his newborn son? A son whom he blames for his wife's death? This guy is on the verge of putting his son up for adoption, but changes his mind and hires an Active? What kind of nonsense is that? Why not just take time off from work and deal with your son yourself or if you can't be there 24/7, hire a nanny. How is hiring an Active helping out the dad or the son. Make that TWO actives, as Sierra is there to provide comfort to Echo.

    This season lacks direction and long-term planning. I like Joss, but I think his previous works were more indicative of his talent than this stuff.

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  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [8]Oct 5, 2009
    • member since: 08/11/06
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    At least make it look like you changed a few words in your post.
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  • Avatar of Jacks_Son

    Jacks_Son

    [9]Oct 5, 2009
    • member since: 11/29/05
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    I wanted to make my point. Some people only read certain threads. There are some people who only read "positive" reviews and they tend to stay away from any posts that may be negative. Someone in the other thread posted that it was clearly shown that Ballard set up Echo as the undercover Doll to go after the arms dealer. I don't see how that was clearly shown. Yes, Ballard wanted the arms dealer taken down, but how does Ballard justify the use of a Doll to Adele? The Dollhouse was created to make a profit from the use of its Dolls or at least they're used for personal reasons. (e.g. the use of Echo to find Adele's friend's murderer) Is Ballard using his willingness to remain silent about the Dollhouse as the price in return for favors in his personal vendettas?
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  • Avatar of ssa2204

    ssa2204

    [10]Oct 5, 2009
    • member since: 03/25/06
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 88
    Jacks_Son wrote:

    For me, I find this series becoming increasingly frustrating. The engagements are just not very believable. In episode two, "Vows", Echo is married to a guy who is an arms dealer? How is this even possible and believable. Who hired the Dollhouse for this assignment? Was it for altruistic reasons or was there some organization that hired the Dollhouse to infiltrate the arms dealer's home? How long was Echo seeing the guy before they got married? No explanations are given and it just seems like a given scenario is pressented, and the audience is just supposed to accept it.

    The next episode, "Instinct" is even worse. A guy hires an Active because he wants to bond with his newborn son? A son whom he blames for his wife's death? This guy is on the verge of putting his son up for adoption, but changes his mind and hires an Active? What kind of nonsense is that? Why not just take time off from work and deal with your son yourself or if you can't be there 24/7, hire a nanny. How is hiring an Active helping out the dad or the son. Make that TWO actives, as Sierra is there to provide comfort to Echo.

    This season lacks direction and long-term planning. I like Joss, but I think his previous works were more indicative of his talent than this stuff.

    Dollhouse meet ramp, ramp meet shark, shark meet Dollhouse. Now Dollhouse, use ramp to jump shark. This may have been one of the worst hours of plausible dribble I have seen in a long time. I only caught this episode because I got home too late to catch Stargate Universive's premier, so I was wasting time until the re-airing at 10. Sorry to have to say this, but this is a huge whopping I freaking told you so moment here folks. I said before this show ever started that the concept was just so poorly thought out that the show had no chance. If the writers and producers have any brains, they will write themselves a show conclusion by the end of their episode order. Unless something like overseas sales + DVD sales are high enough that the studio and producers are willing to cut their licencing fee to nill, there is absolutley 0 chance this show will continue, and can't say it even deserves to. This episode highlighted my biggest annoyance, that of the whole point surrounding this concept. In the episodes I have seen so far, there has been little to no point what so ever to hire a "Doll" when any other profession could have just as easily done the job for much less. Give me 5 minutes and I could have come up with a more imaginative show concept than this. Fact is some people just do not have the talent for Science Fiction. I don't know if this would have even made for a good Syfy channel movie, but it does need to die gracefully. Short of that they need to hire some actualy talented Science Fiction writers and do a reboot. Otherwise this is an assault and insult tointelligence.

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  • Avatar of lazyjay

    lazyjay

    [11]Oct 5, 2009
    • member since: 07/15/05
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    ssa2204 wrote:
    Give me 5 minutes and I could have come up with a more imaginative show concept than this.

    You are thusly challenged.
    Edited on 10/05/2009 4:20pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of grailwolf

    grailwolf

    [12]Oct 6, 2009
    • member since: 04/22/05
    • level: 55
    • rank: Bounty Dog
    • posts: 4,578
    Jacks_Son wrote:
    Someone in the other thread posted that it was clearly shown that Ballard set up Echo as the undercover Doll to go after the arms dealer. I don't see how that was clearly shown. Yes, Ballard wanted the arms dealer taken down, but how does Ballard justify the use of a Doll to Adele?

    When Adele and Boyd are arguing about Echo's assignment (which Ballard has already mentioned is "long-term") her main reason for keeping Echo on the assignment is that they made a deal with Ballard. Also, when Echo and Ballard are talking in the van she believes that she and Ballard have been partners for three years, and he checks a cheat sheet to verify this fact. Seems pretty obvious that he is the client, Echo is imprinted to his specs, and together they are trying to take down Klar. And as mentioned (by Adele herself) this is part of the deal with Ballard in exchange for his silence.

    Jacks_Son wrote:
    The Dollhouse was created to make a profit from the use of its Dolls or at least they're used for personal reasons. (e.g. the use of Echo to find Adele's friend's murderer) Is Ballard using his willingness to remain silent about the Dollhouse as the price in return for favors in his personal vendettas?


    Um... yes. Only the goal seems to be to get himself back into the good graces of the FBI. Though he seems to give up on that idea by the end of "Vows".

    And you're a bit limited in your view of the Dollhouse's purpose. They use technology created by Rossum to run their business, and they make an obscene amount of money some of which goes back to Rossum to fund further research. The rest of the time they use Actives for a wide variety of reasons. We've seen almost as many charitable assignments as we've seen... lucrative assignments.
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  • Avatar of grailwolf

    grailwolf

    [13]Oct 6, 2009
    • member since: 04/22/05
    • level: 55
    • rank: Bounty Dog
    • posts: 4,578
    Jacks_Son wrote:
    For me, I find this series becoming increasingly frustrating. The engagements are just not very believable. In episode two, "Vows", Echo is married to a guy who is an arms dealer? How is this even possible and believable. Who hired the Dollhouse for this assignment? Was it for altruistic reasons or was there some organization that hired the Dollhouse to infiltrate the arms dealer's home? How long was Echo seeing the guy before they got married? No explanations are given and it just seems like a given scenario is pressented, and the audience is just supposed to accept it.


    As I mention in my last post, this is pretty clearly explained in the episode. In the very beginning, Echo is having a treatment because her current assignment is long-term. We don't know exactly how long, but she's obviously been dating Klar for a while. The rest of my argument is in my last post, but I stand by the fact that this is pretty obvious stuff.

    Jacks_Son wrote:
    The next episode, "Instinct" is even worse. A guy hires an Active because he wants to bond with his newborn son? A son whom he blames for his wife's death? This guy is on the verge of putting his son up for adoption, but changes his mind and hires an Active? What kind of nonsense is that? Why not just take time off from work and deal with your son yourself or if you can't be there 24/7, hire a nanny. How is hiring an Active helping out the dad or the son. Make that TWO actives, as Sierra is there to provide comfort to Echo.


    Okay, here you have actually misunderstood some basic aspects of the story. Let me see if I can explain it more clearly.

    The client's wife died in childbirth, so he (as is common) cannot really bond with the baby because he blames it for the death of his love. However, the baby is also all he has left of his wife, so he wants to avoid giving it up for adoption. So he decides to hire an active who would actually believe that she was the mother. This way, there would be a real and loving bond between the two and his son would, in effect, grow up with a mother. And, judging from the trail of clothes to the bed, the client is getting some comfort as well. He is trying to fantasize that his wife is alive. Remember also that when the client calls the Dollhouse he is repeating "this was a terrible idea!!" which it was. He was acting out of grief and temporary insanity. Characters are allowed to be human and stupid, and this is clearly the idea here.

    Jacks_Son wrote:
    This season lacks direction and long-term planning. I like Joss, but I think his previous works were more indicative of his talent than this stuff.


    I'm really not sure how you can say that this season lacks long-term planning when we haven't seen the long-term plan. Just because you don't know where it's going doesn't mean it has no plan or direction.

    As for the rest, obviously that's your opinion and you are welcome to it. I just think you're judging too harshly and that's clouding your perception of the story, so you're missing key points. Sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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  • Avatar of The_Dude14

    The_Dude14

    [14]Oct 6, 2009
    • member since: 06/15/04
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 132

    I went with "hoping for more twists and turns in the future." I really liked "Vows" and"Instinct" was okay, but I would like to see things get moving.

    Maybe Joss needs to kill somebody, that always seems to get things going.

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  • Avatar of Jacks_Son

    Jacks_Son

    [15]Oct 7, 2009
    • member since: 11/29/05
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 1,074

    grailwolf wrote:
    Okay, here you have actually misunderstood some basic aspects of the story. Let me see if I can explain it more clearly. The client's wife died in childbirth, so he (as is common) cannot really bond with the baby because he blames it for the death of his love. However, the baby is also all he has left of his wife, so he wants to avoid giving it up for adoption. So he decides to hire an active who would actually believe that she was the mother. This way, there would be a real and loving bond between the two and his son would, in effect, grow up with a mother. And, judging from the trail of clothes to the bed, the client is getting some comfort as well. He is trying to fantasize that his wife is alive. Remember also that when the client calls the Dollhouse he is repeating "this was a terrible idea!!" which it was. He was acting out of grief and temporary insanity. Characters are allowed to be human and stupid, and this is clearly the idea here.

    You've made some very valid points and I am willing to accept that my perception of the state of the series is probably colored by my disappointment with the first two episodes.

    However, I want to respectfully disagree with one point: Hiring an active so that your son can "grow up with a mother" is not very plausible. At some point, that Active is going to have to be reassigned, perhaps permanently. How does the loss of this mother affect the child? I think the short term benefits may be harmful in the long term.

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  • Avatar of thetruesora

    thetruesora

    [16]Oct 7, 2009
    • member since: 12/13/04
    • level: 22
    • rank: Freak and Geek
    • posts: 6,286
    I've just watched both episodes back to back and think this season is going well. Everything was great except the whole Echo-as-mum thing was a little "eh" but still really love the show. Next episode looks to be interesting as it looks like (and will hopefully have) the main Active be Victor (who is my fave, apart from whiskey except she's doctor Saunders now and technically no longer an active).
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  • Avatar of chicc_o

    chicc_o

    [17]Oct 7, 2009
    • member since: 03/31/06
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 142

    The Show Needs Alot , if Joss wants to grap more people to watch , for starter enough with the engagment of the week thaing , hit the storyline before you go off air , because really joss on this track we don't have so much to see, you are brilliant and Buffy is my best series of all time but it's not the 90's any more you need to hit from the start and quit wasting time !!!!!!!!

    and for us Joss's work fans we need to start thinking about the series , not about it's ratings and how to help it , and for that to happen we need big improvment in the storyline.

    Edited on 10/07/2009 12:32pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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