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FOX (ended 2010)

Did I Fall Asleep? - Official Ratings News and "Save Dollhouse" Thread

  • Avatar of historylover20

    historylover20

    [21]Oct 29, 2009
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    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    Okay, so now I officially hate Fox.

    You think that's bad, you should have seen what they did to Firefly. For starters, the pilot episode aired last. In fact, this kind of executive meddling is known as "The Firefly Effect."

    Firefly's airing order, numbered by their order on the DVDs, is as follows: 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 4, 5, 9, 10, 14, 1; 11-13 never aired. Apparently, Fox wanted Joss to up Inara's part--the "space hooker" was really Fox's idea, although Inara is in the pilot. They had a hard time casting for Inara. The original actress was let go due to lack of chemistry. Then, Fox rejected the character of Mal--made Joss write Mal less of a hardened character (which he is in the pilot) and more of a humorous, caring character. Then, they rejected the two-hour pilot completely, making Joss Whedon and Tim Miner write an hour-long pilot in just a weekend.

    Notice the order that it aired? It wasn't only the pilot that suffered, obviously. There are a lot of callbacks to "previously" aired episodes. However, the "previously" aired episodes generally aired later than the episode that was calling back to it.

    For an example, episode 8 "Out of Gas," which aired fifth, had a part break down on Serenity and Mal getting severely injured. This was foreshadowed in the pilot (which aired last). Simon, the doctor, was lamenting in episode 4 (I believe, "Shindig") that he has never treated a serious injury. The order is "Out of Gas" aired before "Shindig." And it shouldn't have.

    There are rumors that this executive meddling and anachronologistic airing of "Firefly" actually saved "Dollhouse" last season. Most of Joss Whedon fans would check out "Dollhouse." Because fans remember what happened with "Firefly," Fox knows that they can't really treat "Dollhouse" the same way. At least, they'll give Joss a chance to end this like it can.

    Of course, for some of you, what I'm talking about probably doesn't make sense. Others will know exactly what I'm talking about.

    Kat

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  • Avatar of buffyTVSrox

    buffyTVSrox

    [22]Oct 29, 2009
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    kikimarie593 wrote:
    There wasn't one single episode of Buffy that I thought was horrible. Even the worst episodes were still enjoyable IMO.


    And I agree. And while Dollhouse isn't as enjoyable as Buffy (IMO), I still say that, for me at least, every episode of Dollhouse has had its enjoyable moments as well.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [23]Oct 29, 2009
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    Well I think Dollhouse's weak episodes are still fairly strong.
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  • Avatar of TwistedConverse

    TwistedConverse

    [24]Oct 29, 2009
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    kikimarie593 wrote:
    There wasn't one single episode of Buffy that I thought was horrible. Even the worst episodes were still enjoyable IMO.


    Oh yeah I agree. Even Bad Eggs, the worst Buffy episode EVER imo, has Cordelia's wonderful "It's a teddy bear Buffy. It doesn't emote" line which always makes me LOL and that neat piece of foreshadowing where Buffy and Angel kiss and the camera slides over the tombstone with "Rest In Peace" written over it and Buffy being a total badass and killing the Bezoar inside it's own stomach (the rest is just horrendous though). But every Dollhouse episode has good moments too. I'm just saying people seem to gloss over the fact that both Buffy and Angel had slow starts as well. IMO the first four episodes of Dollhouse S2 are a million times better than the first four of Buffy S2.

    God, I went off into a tangent there lol.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [25]Oct 29, 2009
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    Yeah they definitely are.
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    Lady_Lancaster

    [26]Oct 29, 2009
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    I agree with most of the points made above. I also think that Buffy's characters, as a whole were more likeable as a group than those in Dollhouse. And there were more of them to spread the storylines across. With Dollhouse, for example, there are a LOT of people who don't like Echo/Caroline and that's a problem because the show centres around her. I'm hopeful that the show stays on the air and as for Joss, he's been in the business long enough to know what he needs to do to keep the show going, I just hope he knows how to do it in such a way that even FOX can't complain about the quality etc.
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    Lady_Lancaster

    [27]Oct 29, 2009
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    For the purpose of comparison with "Dollhouse", what were the Season 1 and Season 2 US ratings like for "Buffy" and "Angel"?
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    HexedToBe

    [28]Oct 30, 2009
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    Uh, hello. You frequents probably don't know me 'cause I usually lurk, but here's my take on this year-long issue.

    Dollhouse, although having an intriguing concept and some amazing actors (save Eliza), doesn't have characters as relatable as those the Buffyverse had. I believe most of us grew up with that show, as did the characters, so at some point in that show, you could feel like you've gone through one of the many things a character was facing.

    Now, Dollhouse. Prostitutes. Have we got any on the board here? Let's see hands. None? There's the issue. I love the symbolism and character dynamics the show has to offer, but I feel that on a large scale, the audience won't really give a crap about the high-tech hookers.

    It's still a great show, amazing even, but I don't believe many people can relate to the characters here. Now although ratings are abyssmal this season, the quality of the show (as well as Eliza's acting) has definitely improved. I'll surely miss it when (or if) it's gone, but hey, I still have nine episodes to look forward to which (from the looks of spoilers) won't disappoint.

    (And for the record, haven't watched/followed Firefly, so I might be wrong on some level.)
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    JoeLostDharma

    [29]Oct 30, 2009
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    I'm from Ireland and we onviously get the episodes later than the US and on different channels. It's on season 2 on Sci-fi, but I'm following it on ITV which just aired the Pilot last week.

    What I sometimes wonder is whether or not the ratings in other countries make a difference? Or the worldwide dvd sales?
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  • Avatar of historylover20

    historylover20

    [30]Oct 30, 2009
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    The American ratings system (primarily the Nielsen Ratings) tend to only focus on American and Canadian viewers.

    I've never heard of a show being saved from cancellation based on what overseas ratings. Granted, I don't know every show out there, so there might be some show saved from cancellation.

    Kat

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    fatfreeoreos

    [31]Oct 30, 2009
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    I have never heard of ratings for Buffy or Angel. I was never concerned with ratings until I started watching Dollhouse.
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    buffyTVSrox

    [32]Oct 30, 2009
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    It would be hard to compare the ratings between Dollhouse and Buffy/Angel anyway because they aired on the WB, a network that regularly gets lower ratings as it's the smallest of the networks and, at the time Buffy started, it had barely started itself.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [33]Oct 30, 2009
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    Yeah that's true.
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  • Avatar of TwistedConverse

    TwistedConverse

    [34]Oct 30, 2009
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    Buffy's S1 average ratings were 3.7 million and S2 was 5.2 million.

    I think.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [35]Oct 30, 2009
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    Wow. That's a lot more than Dollhouse....
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    buffyTVSrox

    [36]Oct 30, 2009
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    And on a significantly smaller network...
    Are you sure?
    Wow, Dollhouse is doing even worse than I thought.
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    Lady_Lancaster

    [37]Oct 30, 2009
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    TwistedConverse wrote:
    Buffy's S1 average ratings were 3.7 million and S2 was 5.2 million.

    I think.


    Thanks, Twisted. *smile* I shall call you "Mr. Knowledgeable" *grin*
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  • Avatar of TwistedConverse

    TwistedConverse

    [38]Oct 30, 2009
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    buffyTVSrox wrote:
    And on a significantly smaller network...
    Are you sure?
    Wow, Dollhouse is doing even worse than I thought.


    I know. In fact Innocence actually got something like 8.8 million viewers, compared to Dollhouse's peak of 4.9 million. But then again, no aired episode of Dollhouse is as good as Innocence (imo).

    And I am only knowledgable about Buffy related things, LL! I would so love to a degree in Buffy, I'd get an A and a gold star and a smiley face and everything .
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    Lady_Lancaster

    [39]Oct 30, 2009
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    TwistedConverse wrote:
    buffyTVSrox wrote:
    And on a significantly smaller network...
    Are you sure?
    Wow, Dollhouse is doing even worse than I thought.


    I know. In fact Innocence actually got something like 8.8 million viewers, compared to Dollhouse's peak of 4.9 million. But then again, no aired episode of Dollhouse is as good as Innocence (imo).

    And I am only knowledgable about Buffy related things, LL! I would so love to a degree in Buffy, I'd get an A and a gold star and a smiley face and everything .


    You would indeed, Twisted! They would be all shiny and perfect and you could show them off to everyone you meet! *grin* Innocence was a good episode, very poignant and very sad too.
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    fatfreeoreos

    [40]Oct 30, 2009
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    Yeah I've heard that no episode of Dollhouse has ever gotten 5 million viewers.
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