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FOX (ended 2010)

Dollhouse S01E13 - Epitaph One

  • Avatar of buffyTVSrox

    buffyTVSrox

    [42]Jul 19, 2009
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    ffxi_victor wrote:
    Concerning the song at the end: I read somewhere online that "Jed and Maurissa wrote a song for the episode, which Maurissa sings."

    via: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/07/epitaph-one-dollhouse-joss-whedon-eliza-dushku-fox.html


    Thanks for the information. Such a beautiful song.

    kikimarie593 wrote:
    ^^Douglas!! Why, oh why did you listen to Isa?! Now I'm the only one who hasn't seen it yet.


    Because I always end up listening to Isa somehow. I can't help it.
    I'm sorry.
    And I think Jay said he was waiting for the DVDs.

    And now:

    - Yay, Felicia Day. She's really great in this episode.

    - So the main problems in future L.A. for "actuals" (people who still have their original personalities and memories) are "wielders" (people who use the wiping/imprinting technology), "butchers" (people programmed to kill any actuals) and "dumb-shows" (people who have been wiped completely like the Dollhouse's Actives). Just getting all the future terminology straight.

    - Everyone is so used to losing people they care about that it's become something to comment about if a person is crying over a friend/comrade dying.

    - I love how the characters in this episode, Felicia's character and her group, makes comments about things that viewers of the show had thought. Like, "Looks like a spa," and the line a little later about how unbelievable and ridiculous it was that this big powerful technology was originally being used mainly to give people more believable hookers.

    - "Must have been a daycare"
    Topher was always very youthful for someone at work in a scientific facility. Guess it wouldn't be too hard to misinterpret.

    - I just love the scene of Topher first being in the Dollhouse. Good stuff. And wow, they were really comparatively inefficient before Topher showed up. I guess he really was as smart as he thinks he is. Too bad his genius just brought the apocalypse that much closer...

    - So, Paul goes from "maybe you can do some trouble-shooting for us" to being Echo's handler at some point. Not too big a leap from where it seemed to be heading.

    - I guess Paul speaks Russian, since he seemed to understand Caroline there. But he was FBI, so I guess that's no surprise, but I just thought I'd take note of it. And more importantly...

    - Caroline/Echo has progressed to the point where Caroline is completely aware and intact at all times in Echo, sharing her body with her imprints. All in secret with Paul, and together they're trying to bring down the Dollhouse. Yes! See, now there is an interesting plotline they can bring into the show soon. I like the Caroline/Paul team. And I'm glad they're not really romantically together.

    - Caroline is getting headaches. Guess it's no party sharing your head? Or is there something more?

    - Boyd says Echo's already in danger, and "they" have ways of making people talk. Who, Rossum? And how did he get injured? What's up with him and Saunders? It's questions like these I don't know if we'll ever get real answers to.

    - I guess Boyd didn't come back for her after all. Was that why she decided to stay behind, even if it would drive her mad? Because she still had Faith that Boyd would come and she wanted to be there when he did? Amy is really good here. Well, she's great everywhere, but I thought I'd mention it.

    - Ah, "You don't have to tattoo my dad." Which she really said to mean "Don't go near my dad's back, 'cause you'll see that he's already been tattooed and I'm lying about who we both are." Which, by the way, that's sad, because it means the little girl whose body it really is has been wiped, for all intents and purposes dead. Unless she was put in someone else...

    - Hello, Amy Acker being creepy.

    - Rossum now lets you go be in someone younger and more attractive indefinitely. We knew this bigger evil was coming. With something akin to immortality on the line, the five year thing wasn't going to last forever. And wow, how are they fixing all those scarred faces?

    - And now Rossum controls pretty much the whole world and can make any unspeakable thing legal. Great.

    - Adelle arguing for the laws of humanity.
    See, she's not evil. She's a good person deep down. Just one who does bad things and drowns them in silly rationalizations.

    - Being in multiple bodies at the same time... interesting. Like Xander in Buffy's "The Replacement", but all of them personality-wise and memory-wise the same. Is this guy planning to stay in all those bodies and what, get together and have meetings with himself once a week? Or is he planning to have the memories from each of them all put back into one of him when he's done?

    - And when the going gets tough, Adelle gets Dominic out of the Attic. Poor Dominic. He was such a jerk, but guess what, he was right all along. And wow, nice grim view of what it's like outside in the future.

    - Adelle having all her rationalizations thrown back in her face, more hollow than ever. How tragic for everyone. How tragic for her. To have had it all crash down around her, partially her fault. What she believed in turned into humanity's greatest suffering.

    - "I miss anything?"
    "Just the vodka, thank God."
    Even in a bad situation, Adelle makes the most of it. And in this case, that means sarcasm and booze.

    - Caroline has the cure? Weird. Wonder what the cure is.

    - Victor and Sierra seem to be their original selves. Did Adelle put all the dolls back to their true selves after seeing how wrong she was to have them any other way? And if that's the case, then what's up with Whiskey staying as Saunders? If it was just that they needed a doctor, they could have added medical skills to her original personality and then put it in, right?

    - What in the hell happened to November? And which November does he mean? Madeline November? Or one of the ones who would have come after she was released?

    - I guess Victor and Sierra's relationship went on for a while with them as their original selves, but has since stopped. I wonder why.

    - So Sierra came up with the birth mark thing, huh? And wow, I can't pronounce that name. What is that? Priya Tsetsang?

    - Bye-bye, whoever was in that little girl's body.

    - Okay, so the Actives all became themselves and decided to start a creepy prayer cult?

    - Oh, poor insane Topher.
    I guess bringing about the downfall of humanity and thinking of the ultimate ways to ruin civilization makes one go a bit crazy. I mean, who could take that realization and the guilt that would come with it?

    - Awww, Topher and Adelle are so sweet together. And he would only listen to Adelle some days? I guess on Joss' whiteboard (seen in the background of one of the Dr. Horrible special features) it really did say
    ***SPOILER***
    - "We have Alpha to thank for that". Okay, maybe one of the most perplexing little teasing lines of the episode. Did Alpha come up with a way to keep people from being imprinted? Or did they just learn something using him that made it possible? If Alpha did do it, did he do it on purpose? Is he a good guy? Maybe he made it so that no one could wipe him, and then Caroline and Ballard took him out and used that technology to help others?

    - Well, Caroline and Adelle aren't exactly getting along. And so Caroline just came in to save the Actives? And wow, I wouldn't figure Caroline for a killer, but I guess the hard times changed her. So we never got to see. Did she shoot Adelle, or not?!

    - This little girl is a good actress. I saw her before as Molly on Heroes (where she was one of the only people who could act, so they of course phased her out ).

    - This Caroline/Whiskey interaction is so sad and also touching. "Was I my best?" "Better." Awwww. Get me a tissue.

    - Well, no matter where you hide, the butchers are never far behind. That sucks.

    - Release the poison gas that the Actives left behind just in case. Cue the beautiful music and the epically sad death scene of Whiskey.

    - The view from Adelle's office kinda sucks now...

    - "Kids playing with matches... and they burned the house down." Wonderful line, great analogy.

    - Joss is a big BSG fan. Wonder if he and his crew got the idea for the photo remembrance wall from there.

    - Where did that ladder come from? And why are they climbing up it? Is there some kind of transport sitting on the roof?

    And wow, that was the best Dollhouse has to offer so far. Really excellent.
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  • Avatar of tvfan332

    tvfan332

    [43]Jul 19, 2009
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    The early part of the episode didn't grip me, but I did find it interesting that basically anyone could be imprinted at any moment. The little girl was well casted, she did a really great job. Where do I recognise her from? I didn't like any of the other 2019 characters, though. As soon as they got to the Dollhouse and the flashbacks started, the episode just got amazing. The Rossum exec using the imprints (Victor, ten others) to live forever was fascinating. This must have been what started the crazyness, it must have led to everyone using the tech in the future.

    I loved the short scene showing Echo fully remembering herself as Caroline. I love that Claire and Boyd had gotten together at one point, and Amy Acker was excellent in that scene (and the entire episode). When Claire was patching up Caroline she had said she was surprised to see Caroline and Paul together - something must have happened between them. I wonder how Mr. Dominic got out of the attic, loved Adelle's "thank god you missed the vodka", Topher going nutso was great and completely understandable. I hope Caroline does not kill Adelle (even if I would understand if she did). Whiskey is pretty much dead, right?

    All of the main cast were fantastic. Amy Acker, Olivia Williams and Fran Kranz in particular.

    I'm hoping that season two gives us another glimpse of the future.

    Completely excellent episode, definitely the best of the show. I would rate it very highly.

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    jamiehylton

    [44]Jul 19, 2009
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    Awesome episode. Genius idea by Whedon to give a taste of potentially what could be round the corner for Dollhouse.
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    TwistedConverse

    [45]Jul 19, 2009
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    Firstly, thanks for the link Doug .

    Secondly ... wow. Just wow. It was incredible. I agree with those whose said it felt like a Firefly episode in a way. Very bleak, depressing and sad. It wasn't so much the whole 'apocalypse' thing that made me sad (Buffy and Angel did loads of apocalypse storylines), it was more that the characters were all so .. hopeless. Some of them were trying to fight and stuff but I think deep down, they didn't believe they were going to win.

    The present day scenes were great but I was always kinda itching to get back to the flashbacks. There was some good stuff - the little girl was a great actress (agreed that she outacted most of the Heroes cast when she was on it LOL). It must have been extremely frustrating to be stuck in the body of a little girl but I can't feel empathy for her - she was selfish and seemingly uncaring towards others. Felicia was very good as well. But I didn't get where they were all going at the end. It was confusing. I want "Epitaph Two" or something.

    Whiskey stuff was just incredible. She looked so ghostly. I thought it was very interesting how she was the only one who remained behind. She never left the Dollhouse after she became Dr Saunders it seems (remember in SITHOL where she said she never left?). Very sad. And the exchange between her and Caroline was touching "Was I my best?" "Better". Amazing. Her death scene was amazing too - loved the way she just sat down and rested her head against the metal bar. Brilliant choice of song too (Dollhouse has by far the best music of the Joss shows imo).

    Adelle was the highlight of the episode for me. In fact Adelle is the highlight of the show imo. I can honestly see her becoming the best Joss character ever, if given time. I love the way she really DID believe in her work- she wasn't just some hardfaced b!tch who wanted a good salary. She truly thought she was doing the right thing and it just completely backfired . Loved how she stood up to the boss of the Rossum corporation and stood up for the actives and their rights. And that scene with Topher was just beautiful. I don't want them to be a couple - I actually got a sort of mother/son vibe from them (could be just me though). But it was wonderful. The way she asked if he wanted her to read to him and then the hugging and just . Topher was brilliant here, I wasn't too sure of him before but now I'm confident he'll be a great character. Even Paul was quite good here.

    Caroline was much improved here. I always thought she could be a good character if they made her darker and I was right! I loved that bit in the elevator where she could switch between imprint and herself (btw was that Echo or Caroline in the elevator? Does Echo eventually evolve to the point where she regains her personality?). And I liked her in the scenes where she returned to the Dollhouse. I really hope she didn't kill Adelle, even if I could see WHY she would want to. But I really hope she didn't.

    Victor/Sierra stuff was great, I'm really looking forward to seeing their relationship pan out. Wonder why they stopped sleeping together. Sierra seemed as if all the fight was gone from her to me whereas Victor was still clinging on to a little bit of hope. Wonder what happened to November as well- probably dead unfortunately. I think she'll be a really nice character, you know like Kaylee or Fred but will die along the way sadly .

    I thought the episode had a very chaotic feel to it which is completely the opposite to the first 12 which felt controlled to a degree. But it really did feel like the world went completely mad here. Loved that last shot of the photo of Caroline.

    Completely outstanding episode in all respects. Dollhouse could easily become the greatest of the Whedon shows if given the chance (and that's not something I'd say lightly). Really really really hope Joss continues with the same tone and feel of this episode in S2.

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  • Avatar of buffyTVSrox

    buffyTVSrox

    [46]Jul 19, 2009
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    Remy757Photog wrote:
    I'm curious, what year is the regular season in? I'm wondering how far into the future 2019 really is, maybe it's only 1-3 years from the present time in the regular season.


    I believe the show's regular episodes are meant to be taking place in the present day. Given Epitaph One's "Bush years" line, we know that Dollhouse is meant to be taking place in a world almost exactly like our own (except for some technology accessible only to the very rich), using real-world political figures instead of fictional ones. Then taking into account Omega/Echo's sickeningly inspirational "we have a black President, anything is possible!"-type line to Caroline in "Omega", we can figure that Caroline joined the Dollhouse before Obama was elected (probably before he was a prominent presidential candidate at all), but that "Omega" takes place after he was elected. Keeping all that in mind, I think they're aiming for present-day.

    Remy757Photog wrote:
    When they show Boyd preparing to leave (dialogue with Saunders) and Elizu speakng Russian, it felt like it was a continuation from episode 112 (like only a day or two passed from the ending of episode 112 and these segments of episode 113.


    Really? What makes you believe that the part between Boyd and Saunders was only a day or two off of "Omega"? When we seem them in "Epitaph One", they seem to have had a romantic-type relationship already (which, as far as we know, they hadn't by "Omega"), Echo's in big danger, Rossum is putting Boyd on the run... that seems a bit into the future to me, somewhere around the turning point between Rossum finishing trying to take everything over, and things starting to get out of their hands. I'm interested about what gives you the idea this is so near to the where the normal episodes were. If it is, that would be quite interesting.

    tvfan332 wrote:
    All of the main cast were fantastic. Amy Acker, Olivia Williams and Fran Kranz in particular.


    Definitely. Those three were astounding.
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  • Avatar of buffyTVSrox

    buffyTVSrox

    [47]Jul 19, 2009
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    TwistedConverse wrote:
    Firstly, thanks for the link Doug .


    You're welcome.
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    michael_LB92

    [48]Jul 19, 2009
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    TwistedConverse wrote:
    And that scene with Topher was just beautiful. I don't want them to be a couple - I actually got a sort of mother/son vibe from them (could be just me though). But it was wonderful.


    No, I got that too. She appeared very protective and nurturing around him.

    I heard that the second season was going to take off a little after season one, like a year. But I don't have a link or a memorable quote, so I could be wrong.

    I don't think Joss and Co. will just lead us blindly into Epitaph One through the next few years, I reckon they'll somehow continue that storyline. Whether it's timejumps for later seasons, or flash-forwards/backs, I think the series will somehow continue to link the two together.
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    spikemaniac

    [49]Jul 19, 2009
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    buffyTVSrox wrote:
    ...she still had Faith that Boyd would come...

    I love how you started the word "faith" with a capital letter
    You are such a Buffy fan.
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  • Avatar of buffyTVSrox

    buffyTVSrox

    [50]Jul 19, 2009
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    spikemaniac wrote:
    buffyTVSrox wrote:
    ...she still had Faith that Boyd would come...

    I love how you started the word "faith" with a capital letter
    You are such a Buffy fan.


    Ha! I didn't even realize I did that.
    I guess I just do it by habit.
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    spikemaniac

    [51]Jul 19, 2009
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    michael_LB92 wrote:
    TwistedConverse wrote:
    And that scene with Topher was just beautiful. I don't want them to be a couple - I actually got a sort of mother/son vibe from them (could be just me though). But it was wonderful.


    No, I got that too. She appeared very protective and nurturing around him.

    Same. I got the mother/son vibe. I like that a lot, I don't want it to be romantic.


    buffyTVSrox wrote:

    One question I had: Do we know if this is supposed to be the future of the world of the show, or just a possible future, kind of a "what if" based on where the series is headed but not necessarily exactly where it will end up?

    I was wondering that too!
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    michael_LB92

    [52]Jul 19, 2009
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    spikemaniac wrote:
    Same. I got the mother/son vibe. I like that a lot, I don't want it to be romantic.

    I love Adele, but that's a little cougar-y of her if it is romantic.

    spikemaniac wrote:
    buffyTVSrox wrote:

    One question I had: Do we know if this is supposed to be the future of the world of the show, or just a possible future, kind of a "what if" based on where the series is headed but not necessarily exactly where it will end up?

    I was wondering that too!

    I kinda hope it's just a possible ending.
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    buffyTVSrox

    [53]Jul 19, 2009
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    michael_LB92 wrote:
    spikemaniac wrote:
    Same. I got the mother/son vibe. I like that a lot, I don't want it to be romantic.

    I love Adele, but that's a little cougar-y of her if it is romantic.


    Fine, I'll be the only Adelle/Topher shipper on the planet.
    I figured there was only the mother/son vibe because he had gone insane so she had had to take care of him. Like couples where one of them gets Alzheimer's and dementia or whatever and one spouse has to take care of the other completely. It was the way Olivia played Adelle's reactions to Topher in that scene that made me think she was more of a dutiful devastated love than a sad mother. But I'm insane, so that might taint my views.
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    aislingxireland

    [54]Jul 20, 2009
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    wow i think dollhouse are really uping there game.even though i dont know fully whats going on i still thought it was the best episode so far.well done dollhouse crew!!
    Edited on 07/20/2009 7:54am
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    neokid0298

    [55]Jul 20, 2009
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    Doom442 wrote:
    chelanza wrote:
    lol Torrents are so slow... just use rapidshare. Took 10 minutes to get the whole episode. And I agree, it is amazing! Just wondering..

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    Did Whiskey kill herself as well as the others? Or was it just a sleeping gas?


    Actually, that's a good point cause i was wondering why the Dollhouse would have poison gas installed at all. If it was sleeping gas one could argue that it was installed to quell an uprising of the Doll's if one would ever occur (hey, after Alpha they need to be prepared).


    I think it was poison because of two reasons:
    A. If someone were to invade the Dollhouse, it would be a quick way to.... end the invaders and wipe all evidence of the people. The gas being trigged would probably alert some Rossum cleanup crew.
    2. One of the people was twitching.
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    neokid0298

    [56]Jul 20, 2009
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    Also, I hope that every season ends with an ep like this, like Epitaph Two, Three, Four, Five.
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    stavi81

    [57]Jul 20, 2009
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    i didn't understood everything, and there are a lot of questions... but still i have to say that i like "this dollhouse" better than the other one...
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    michael_LB92

    [58]Jul 21, 2009
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    neokid0298 wrote:
    Also, I hope that every season ends with an ep like this, like Epitaph Two, Three, Four, Five.

    That's actually a good idea. They should do that. What does Epitaph even mean?
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    melliecho

    [59]Jul 21, 2009
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    Just finally watched this ep, and Echo, after nearly a full day of downloading. I was expecting them to be available after this weekend, after ComiCon, so yesterday was a nice little surprise

    I don't think that Fox really thought through the whole "let's-not-air-the-original-pilot-and-episode-13" thing properly. Echo and Epitaph One were by the far the best episodes of the whole season. After watching Epitaph One, I was wondering, will season 2 begin in 2019? Or will the next few seasons fill in the gaps, leading up to and finishing in 2019?

    And does anyone know what the song was at the end of the episode after the three climbed out of DeWitt's office/when Whiskey let all the gas in?
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    marto_dd

    [60]Jul 21, 2009
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    Some of you said that this episode was a little bit like a Firefly episode, but for me it was really like an Angel episode:

    - Echo getting the headaches was kinda like Cordy having the headaches.

    - Claire's "I wish we had more time" was like Fred's last episode, when she was with Wesley. And also like Buffy's "It's not enough time".

    - Topher, who had lost his mind really looked like Angel, who had lost his mind in the episode "Birthday".
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