Dollhouse Forums

FOX (ended 2010)

Official Discussion Thread - "Briar Rose"

  • Avatar of tvismyescape22

    tvismyescape22

    [21]May 1, 2009
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    This was an awesome episode! Who would've guessed that the crazy, weird "medicinal carrots" guy was Alpha? Did he just change his personality like that?

    Victor as Dominic was great! I can't believe that Victor is going to be scarred up. Poor guy...

    So Ballard found Stephen Kepler who was really Alpha and brought him to the Dollhouse, wow, so now it's his fault that everything is messed up. I wonder what Adelle and Boyd are going to do with him. The fight between Boyd and Ballard was awesome, though.

    Who has Echo been imprinted with? It can't be Caroline because from next week's preview, it looks like she has a Texan accent. I can't wait for next week! This better not get canceled!
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [22]May 1, 2009
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    Viktor better not be scarred. Maybe they can heal him better than Saunders. I think, in a way, she wanted to keep the scars. The can't afford to have Viktor mussed.
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    SVU_Obsessed

    [23]May 1, 2009
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    Pretty awesome episode.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [24]May 1, 2009
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    SVU_Obsessed wrote:
    Pretty awesome episode.


    That's all you have to say? No minute by minute ranty typed reactions? I may be a little...disappointed? I like those.
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  • Avatar of SVU_Obsessed

    SVU_Obsessed

    [25]May 1, 2009
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    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    SVU_Obsessed wrote:
    Pretty awesome episode.


    That's all you have to say? No minute by minute ranty typed reactions? I may be a little...disappointed? I like those.

    Well my mom took my computer to watch some American Idol videos on Youtube so I couldn't type out my thoughts. But I did write them down on a couple pages of notebook paper. But it would just feel like a waste typing it all out.

    I think NJZ is starting to rub off on me about typing out long posts.
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  • Avatar of Sam_Sam_The_Man

    Sam_Sam_The_Man

    [26]May 1, 2009
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    Wow. What an episode. Seems like everything's starting to fall into place.

    Pardon me while I try to rationalize everything we've seen over the past 11 episodes. Seems to me that Alpha has totally been playing Ballard like a fiddle. Sent him all these documents to make him obsessed with Caroline so that he'd want to break into the Dollhouse and rescue her. Then, Paul would provide a distraction while Alpha could kidnap Echo. Looks like that plan worked out perfectly.

    Now, here's the key: what is the deal with Alpha's obsession with Echo? My guess from the promos: Alpha started to retain all his personalities, much like Echo. When Echo saved him on an engagement, he fell in love with the personality that saved him--but in Caroline's body. Now, he wants to put Caroline's memories into another woman's body (is she random, or the original host of the personality who saved him?) and kill her so that Caroline will effectively cease to exist. Here's why--someone correct me if I make a mistake, but I think the conclusion I am about to draw is supported by what we have seen thus far.

    With the exception of those in the Attic, the Dollhouse is all about volunteering. Adelle's friend is an example of this--people volunteer their memories to be stored in the Dollhouse Archives, probably for a pretty penny. Perhaps memories can only be extracted from a living person. This theory creates the problem of too many people knowing about the Dollhouse, but the alternative is the Dollhouse digging up dead people and siphoning their memories into disks. Yikes. Anyways, this woman that Alpha has kidnapped, into whom he puts Caroline's personality--perhaps she holds the personality Alpha loves. Essentially, then, he conducts a brain transplant between Echo and this woman. Since the memory disks are likely difficult to destroy, Alpha's solution to destroying Caroline's mind and this woman's body and thereby creating his perfect bride is to download Caroline into this woman, and then kill her, because memories cannot be extracted from a dead person. It would be like trying to download a file from a computer without power. With this woman's death dies Caroline and the body of the woman whose mind he loves so.

    Now, there's only one thing I still don't get. Alpha can clearly perform uploads upon himself, hence why he killed Kepler. The Doll is dangerous because he can continue to supplement his personality with new powers, ala Syler. He can also perform remote wipes, as evidenced in "Gray Hour." Herein lies my confusion, then: in "The Target" and "Gray Hour," wasn't Alpha trying to kill Echo? He hired the guy who wanted to hunt her down, and killed the fake forest ranger before anyone could question him (so why Adelle didn't suspect he was in LA is beyond me). What was the point of throwing the Dollhouse off his trail with the Tuscon stunt if he's been so successful at eluding them thus far? Why would he communicate with Dominic unless he too wanted to kill Echo and take down the Dollhouse (or check its power)?

    Well, the writing of the show has been so strong thus far that I imagine all my questions will be answered in "Omega." I'll be waiting with bated breath!

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  • Avatar of kikimarie593

    kikimarie593

    [27]May 1, 2009
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    SVU_Obsessed wrote:
    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    SVU_Obsessed wrote:
    Pretty awesome episode.
    That's all you have to say? No minute by minute ranty typed reactions? I may be a little...disappointed? I like those.
    Well my mom took my computer to watch some American Idol videos on Youtube so I couldn't type out my thoughts. But I did write them down on a couple pages of notebook paper. But it would just feel like a waste typing it all out.
    I think NJZ is starting to rub off on me about typing out long posts.

    Aw please type it out! It wouldn't be a waste! Your recaps are always hilarious!

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  • Avatar of SVU_Obsessed

    SVU_Obsessed

    [28]May 1, 2009
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    kikimarie593 wrote:
    Aw please type it out! It wouldn't be a waste! Your recaps are always hilarious!

    Nah, I'll maybe do it for next week's ep. But I will say that Adelle was awesome in this episode, especially when she was angry and raising her voice.

    But I might do my reactions for next week's ep. In the meantime, what I wrote on notebook paper is going in the trash. It just feels more real when I'm typing it out.
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  • Avatar of ninjaman09

    ninjaman09

    [29]May 1, 2009
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    Alan Tudyk/Alpha really stole the show in this episode didn't he? He was just freakin' awesome. And yay, now we've had someone from Whedon's Firefly show up on this show!

    I'm starting to lose taste for Paul. His obsession with Caroline and the Dollhouse has been getting frustrating.

    My one big WTF moment was Alpha and Echo's makeout session. I'm really curious as to what he imprinted in her head. The promo just really confuses me, but in an intriguing way. Dang I can't wait to see what happens next.
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  • Avatar of amaryllis88

    amaryllis88

    [30]May 1, 2009
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    Wow what an episode!! After the ending, I just kept saying "oh my god," over and over again, it was frackin' fantastic!! I totally bought Alan Tudyk as Alpha, and no doubt about it. His "stoner" persona reminded me a whole lot like his character on "Death at a Funeral," while he was high, he played that so well.

    Did anybody catch what was written on his coffee mug? I enjoy details like that...I'll try watching it again to catch it. Aah, medicinal carrots, that was great, is that what put Bugs Bunny in a good mood during his cartoon-tenure? All the plans seemed to come together, the storylines finally meshed, and you really got to see people for who they are, and what they have the potential of doing.

    Poor Viktor! He did an amazing job playing Dominic, I found him to be believable, and then as the doll, "people were fighting on me," and then getting slashed up by Alpha. Oh I felt so bad for him! I wanted to help him off the floor, and fix him right up. Also, Dr. Saunders, quite awesome too! I could see her as a social worker as well as a doctor, if doctor'ing wasn't her first option.

    I felt good about Topher's engagement for Echo, and I had an inkling as he was talking with Ivy about Echo being imprinted with the future Susan, but even better when it turned out to be true. I liked her narration when Ballard went to *free* Caroline, that was well done!

    I wonder where he thought he'd take her, and then what happens when she couldn't recall her memories? I think it was a bit much hope that Ballard was thinking that he could just waltz right in and *rescue* just 1 person. I'm glad he got to speak with Adelle & Boyd, (oh and the fight between them...gruesome, I hated seeing Boyd get beaten up like that), and at that moment I started disliking Ballard more and more.

    What an INTENSE episode, this was superb, everything, the complete change in character of Alpha, I'd like to know who he imprinted Echo with...and the promo looks fantabulous!!!!
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  • Avatar of SnarkBC

    SnarkBC

    [31]May 1, 2009
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    Saunders is a doll who they couldn't use after her scars because the Dollhouse is shallow? AMAZING twist. Alan Tudyk as Alpha was AMAZING, very Dark Knight Joker. Victors face is boned. Those cuts were DEEP, and they're permanant baby.

    My hope is that what Alpha did to Caroline was unlock her "Actual" personality, the Caroline we know being some kind of fake. That would be better than annoying animal activist who lets the rage monkeys go and dooms humanity.

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  • Avatar of FaithTheSlayer

    FaithTheSlayer

    [32]May 1, 2009
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    Amazing episode.

    Loved the Alpha reveal. Even though I read the spoilers, I was still shocked because I was beginning to think the spoilers were wrong lol. Alan was great. He can totally switch personalities on cue. The same can go for Enver. He did amazing as Dominic.

    Am I the only one who thinks Paul andd Adelle have a history??? I dunno, but I sensed something....

    There is totally something up with Dr. Saunders. The whole Whiskey bit definitely has my wires crossed. Could she possibly be a doll? Or a retired doll? Alpha seems to have a soft spot for her.

    Victor baby was cut!! I hope he isn't sent to the "attic"! Speaking of that "attic" place, I want to know what the hell it looks like!! Supposedly Adelle heads there in the next episode.

    Miracle Laurie was awesome as Mellie. Love this girl.

    The Paul/Boyd fight was pure awesomeness!! And that little exchange between Echo and Boyd proves they have a deeper connection. I love their relationship.

    Alpha/Echo locking lips made my mouth drop! Wasn't exspecting THAT at all lol.

    Next week looks even better. Cannot wait. FOX would be pure evil if they didn't gives us a second season. Not that they haven't canceled wonderful series before they were given a chance before...

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  • Avatar of bobster_bsas

    bobster_bsas

    [33]May 2, 2009
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    OK, first of all, amazing episode, as usual.

    I agree with most of the things that had been said so far, but...

    Seriously, nobody knew that the stoner guy was Alpha? (i mean those who didn't read the spoilers) i try to keep myself spoiler-free, but since the moment they entered the dollhouse i knew who alpha was.

    Maybe because of that i found the Ballard/Boyd fight a little too long, i was almost screaming to the screen "ok they're fighting, i get it, so now just reveal alpha and tel me what's gonna happen afterwards"

    I hope this show gets a second season, there is a lot of things to explore about the dollhouse, but on the other hand if they give a good conclusion to the season, we shouldn't complain either. It is an excellent show, but it has had a lot of things against it: People bashing it without even watching it , a horrible time-slot and a target audience who rather dvr the show than watch it when it airs (can't say i don't feel a bit guilty about that, because i download it from a "not so legal" site, but i definitely watch it again when it airs in Argentina, that is if fox Latin America cares enough to air it)

    Anyways, i can't wait for next week's episode.

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  • Avatar of Alex055

    Alex055

    [34]May 2, 2009
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    Great episode. I knew the blonde guy was Alpha, but forgot about it when watching the episode. Then, when it's revealed he is Alpha, I went like "WHAT THE HECK? FOR REAL?! OH YEAH! I TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT THAT!". (I read that he was going to play Alpha and forgot I did read about that.)

    Anyways, something makes me think Alpha is imprinted with Caroline's ex-boyfriend...Unless either she's been imprinted with a personality that Alpha liked (or several) or she's been imprinted with the personality of someone Alpha cared about before he became a Doll.
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  • Avatar of buffyTVSrox

    buffyTVSrox

    [35]May 2, 2009
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    Sam_Sam_The_Man wrote:
    Herein lies my confusion, then: in "The Target" and "Gray Hour," wasn't Alpha trying to kill Echo?


    I'm not even sure if this was the main source of your confusion, so sorry for not being more helpful if not, but I do at least think I have down why Alpha hired the guy in "The Target" and wiped Echo in "Gray Hour". I believe he was testing her in "The Target", trying to unlock her potential to stand and fight and kill the psycho he hired. He was probably hiding in his super-stealthy-Alpha way behind a tree ten feet from the clearing where the final showdown went down waiting to jump in with his blade if he lost hope in Echo. In "Gray Hour" I believe it was a test to see, if Echo was pushed, could her "blank slate" self composite anything that should have been wiped (like Alpha did) to manage to escape in one piece.
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  • Avatar of lazyjay

    lazyjay

    [36]May 2, 2009
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    This was such an amazing episode!

    A few first impressions, then I'm going to go watch it again. Alan Tudyk was amazing (and funny as all get out) as the paranoid stoner and even better as Alpha. How does he not have a job playing a regular on a series? But I guess it's good for us that he doesn't. Medicinal carrots - Ha!

    Echo's mission was sweet, and I think there's something deeper there as well. How did the DH get an imprint of the little girl to build Echo's imprint off of in the first place? I'll bet it has something to do with Alpha, and Adelle is taking the opportunity to clean up after the fact.

    Enver Gjokaj (Victor) is such an amazing actor. He had Mr. Dominic down to a T.

    Holy spit! Dr. Saunders is Whiskey! Ooh maybe now that Victor has been scarred they'll make him one of the DH employees with specialized skills. I hope so (if we get another season).

    So, Alpha killed the original designer of the DH, then pretended to be him, to lure Ballard in to get his help to break in and provide a distraction while *he* escapes with Echo, but a different Echo. *twisty*

    Awesome fight scene, and the flashbacks were perfect and well placed. I can't wait for next week!
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  • Avatar of SnarkBC

    SnarkBC

    [37]May 2, 2009
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    I kind of doubt if things went south in the episode Alpha would help Echo. If she died and failed the test she would be unworthy...

    I'm in love with this show now. I came in extreamely frustrated by the incredibly mediocre first five, warmed alot for Episode 6 and Patton Oswalt, cooled off again and then warmed up with some of these last episodes. Tonight it really felt like all the variables that have been moving around for a boring season collided, and Alpha, the single most interesting aspect of Dollhouse since the dull pilot steals the show, as expected. To be honest once they announced casting I fell in love with the choice right away. Here's hoping Whedon gets a second season to make this show truly GREAT, and lets hope Alpha survives Omega next week.

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  • Avatar of talieson

    talieson

    [38]May 2, 2009
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    if Alan Tudyk is to be a regular in season 2, I have everything crossed that there will be a season 2. Up til now I have been totally underwhelmed but this episode was excellent and Alan/Medicinal Carrots/Alpha is one of the best actors around. He can play anything, and he can "turn on a dime" from crazy stoner to shudderworthy psycho and make it 100% believable.
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  • Avatar of Sugarnatural

    Sugarnatural

    [39]May 2, 2009
    • member since: 05/09/08
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    OH. MY. GOD. What just happened? I think I had my mind literally blown! Last episode was fantastic (don't even get me started on that scene between Paul and Mellie...twisted much?), but this? THIS? Absolutely brilliant. There I am, laughing my head off at the world's funniest buddy cops ("I'm falling, I'm falling!" You're not falling!"), then BAM! Fight between the two men who are intent on keeping Echo safe. Love Ballard to pieces, but I did scream a couple of times - "Don't hit Boyd! Don't hit Boyd, you jerk!"

    The reveal was...breathtaking. No other word for it. Turned on...not even a dime, a sliver of a dime, and there he was - Alpha. I'd read the spoilers, but I just didn't believe it. I thought, "No way could Alan Tudyk pull it off." I eat my words, Mr. Tudyk, I eat my words.

    What's in store? Oh God, I would love for Ballard to join the Dollhouse. I can see him pining over Echo even as he works to keep her enslaved. Yummy drama! As for where Alpha is going...I can barely wait!

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  • Avatar of Thracozaag

    Thracozaag

    [40]May 2, 2009
    • member since: 10/21/05
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    Jon_MW_14 wrote:
    I always found Topher funny.


    He said "frackin'", haha nice touch.
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