Dollhouse Forums

FOX (ended 2010)

Official Discussion Thread - "Epitaph 2: Return"

  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [101]Feb 3, 2010
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    That might have been a good idea, showing E1 right before E2 premiered.
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    BoogerHeadRat

    [102]Feb 3, 2010
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    drashee wrote:
    Anyone know what song was played at the very end of the episode??
    Lissie - Everywhere I Go.

    You can visit her official webpage with videos and full versions of her songs here: http://www.ilike.com/artist/Lissie

    Great new artist. I hope she does good after having her song end the series.

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    fatfreeoreos

    [103]Feb 3, 2010
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    Oh thanks. It's a beautiful song.
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    CoffeeCake225

    [104]Feb 3, 2010
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    the episode wouldve made so much more sense if they actually aired epitaph 1. i liked the episode and ill miss the show i think it ended on a fairly good note except for ballard dying. i cried during those scenes i wish they kept him on the show it wouldve made the ending so much happier to see them together in the dollhouse after the explosion
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    michael_LB92

    [105]Feb 3, 2010
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    I liked this much more than E1. In E1, I had no reason to care at all for the characters (except maybe Felicia Day, but that was based on the actress). It was good. The ending was nice. I would have preffered something with Claire/Topher in there. I've always felt there's something more to that relationship that was never explored, and it's the only one I've truly, truly been interested in. And now it will bug me forever. I'd also like to know if all those people died at the end of E1 (Whiskey, etc).
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    wordlessdan

    [106]Feb 6, 2010
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    I watched it a second time and it again broke my heart. At first (before I saw the end of the cringe-worthy The Hollow Men) I thought Epitaph Two would follow Mag and tiny Caroline as they get on a helicopter and find a mountain where a group of people (Echo, Adelle, and Ballard) have a cure taken from Alpha's spine. All with more flashbacks to explain how the world became so much like "Last Man on Earth" with Vincent Price.

    I also expected the writers to go over more about Boyd, Whiskey (though I guess I just have to accept that she's dead), and Dominic. But the finale worked for me, probably because it was such a gigantic step up from the underwhelming and disappointing Hollow Men and I wasn't expecting much. The tears started coming as soon as Sierra turned around in answer to T's call, "Mom!" From then on, I was fully immersed in the episode. Dushku was a bit of a weak link even in this ep, though, from her conversations with Ballard to her emotional breakdown.
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    ___Mr_Nasty___

    [107]Feb 12, 2010
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    I finally watched this episode now!

    Yeah, it was quite good. I suppose.

    Let's not have another show with Dushku as the lead though, eh?
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    fatfreeoreos

    [108]Feb 12, 2010
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    She's not that bad. That's like saying, don't let Joss create any more shows.
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    ___Mr_Nasty___

    [109]Feb 12, 2010
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    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    She's not that bad. That's like saying, don't let Joss create any more shows.


    That's like saying Joss is "not that bad" at making tv shows.

    He should respect his fans and make the best dang shows he possibly can instead of fannying about trying to help his friends out with their careers.

    That's not cool, dude!

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    fatfreeoreos

    [110]Feb 12, 2010
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    Okay, maybe I misinterpreted what you were trying to say. Did you mean that Dushku is a bad actress don't let her be in any more shows, or she keeps killing shows?
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    ___Mr_Nasty___

    [111]Feb 12, 2010
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    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    Okay, maybe I misinterpreted what you were trying to say. Did you mean that Dushku is a bad actress don't let her be in any more shows, or she keeps killing shows?


    I wouldn't say she was bad but she's not good enough to be taking such an important (and challenging) role. It was obvious from the outset and it ultimately proved an insurmountable handicap for the show. It's not as bad as many of it's detractors will have you believe but it's still easily Whedon's poorest series to date.

    Anyway, it's not all on Dushku. The show had a bunch of really good ideas but much of it seemed to be beyond the writers' grasp, like that 'immortality through imprinting' nonsense they insisted on pushing right to the end.

    The second half of season two was just unbelievably rushed too. Like, two or three game-changing twists every episode and about 70% (made up number) of the dialogue was awkward exposition. Come on, that was about three or four years of storyline crammed into around six or seven episodes. Fox's fault really but the show still suffered all the same.
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    historylover20

    [112]Feb 12, 2010
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    I'm not sure what all the Dushku hate is coming from. She's not the best actress, but she's all right.

    Plus, this wasn't Joss Whedon's show. It was Eliza Dushku's. She had the contract from Fox to produce and star in a show. She was the one who called Joss in. Yeah, maybe they shouldn't have planned a show over lunch or anything like that again. Or maybe Joss Whedon needs to do internet things for a while.

    Kat

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    Lady_Lancaster

    [113]Feb 12, 2010
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    historylover20 wrote:

    I'm not sure what all the Dushku hate is coming from. She's not the best actress, but she's all right.

    Plus, this wasn't Joss Whedon's show. It was Eliza Dushku's. She had the contract from Fox to produce and star in a show. She was the one who called Joss in. Yeah, maybe they shouldn't have planned a show over lunch or anything like that again. Or maybe Joss Whedon needs to do internet things for a while.

    Kat


    I think Eliza is terrific. Her acting is up and down, but whose isn't? I agree with what you are saying and yes, Eliza did call him in. I think she's fantastic as a person too (I haven't met her but I've seen loads of interviews etc. and I know a couple of people in California who have worked with her and they have the greatest of respect for her as a person and a professional.) I'd like to see her in another show, but I don't know if "Dollhouse" was ever going to be a massive hit, no matter who starred in it because it didn't have wide audience appeal, unfortunately. Personally, I really liked it, but I wouldn't have wept buckets if I missed any episodes or anything. Still, I rarely watch tv at all anymore, I DO give my DVD player a good workout though! *grin*.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [114]Feb 13, 2010
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    historylover20 wrote:

    I'm not sure what all the Dushku hate is coming from. She's not the best actress, but she's all right.

    Plus, this wasn't Joss Whedon's show. It was Eliza Dushku's. She had the contract from Fox to produce and star in a show. She was the one who called Joss in. Yeah, maybe they shouldn't have planned a show over lunch or anything like that again. Or maybe Joss Whedon needs to do internet things for a while.

    Kat

    That makes no sense. Why would the network hire the actress/producer first and leave it to her to find a creator?
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    ___Mr_Nasty___

    [115]Feb 13, 2010
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    historylover20 wrote:
    She had the contract from Fox to produce and star in a show. She was the one who called Joss in.


    By all accounts, she didn't "call Joss in". She met him for a lunch the way people who are friends sometimes do and in the process of advising her what kind of show she should be starring in Whedon decided he would be the one to make that kind of show that she should be starring in.

    Time to let her forge her own career from now on, I think.

    Lady_Lancaster wrote:
    I think Eliza is terrific. Her acting is up and down, but whose isn't?


    Er, a good actor?

    Lady_Lancaster wrote:
    I agree with what you are saying and yes, Eliza did call him in.


    Not really, no.

    Lady_Lancaster wrote:
    I don't know if "Dollhouse" was ever going to be a massive hit, no matter who starred in it because it didn't have wide audience appeal, unfortunately.


    Might not have been more popular but it may well have been a better show with someone else as Echo.

    historylover20 wrote:
    This one was riddled with plot holes.


    Oh really!?

    historylover20 wrote:
    No mention of Whiskey? Was she killed when the Butchers infiltrated and she turned on the gas?


    Well, of course she was. Should have been obvious from watching E1 to be honest but the very fact that she wasn't mentioned in E2 is confirmation enough. In any case, it wouldn't be a plot hole. That's not what a plot hole is.

    historylover20 wrote:
    Yeah, what about Perrin? Is he still a doll? I know he's in Washington, but this whole apocalypse future would affect him.


    Perrin served his purpose in the story. There was no need to revisit him. It's barely even a loose end. Definitely not a plot hole.
    historylover20 wrote:
    No mention of Dominic? Was he killed when the Rossum mainframe blew? And if that happened, then in E1, why was he there, in flashback, talking about his time in the Attic in the past tense?


    Either he died when the mainframe was destroyed and the "memory" in E1 was fabricated by someone still alive in the future to tell the story of the civilisation-ending tech or he was freed from the Attic sometime after Rossum fell and then wasn't seen after his confrontation with Adelle. It's a shame we didn't get to find out what happened with him since he clearly still had a role to play. Still, that's a loose end, not a plot hole.

    historylover20 wrote:
    Why is Alpha sane? He wasn't the picture of sanity BEFORE his composite (he was a serial rapist and would-be murderer who liked to cut up people's faces). So, when did he get to be a good guy?


    The fact that there's a ten year gap means this isn't a plot hole. Again though, it's a shame we didn't get to see what happened since it surely would have been one the most pivotal events in the series if it had had a longer run. There had already been a suggestion in E1 that Alpha had joined the fight against Rossum so his appearance lending a hadn was to be expected. Of course if viewers hadn't seen E1 ...

    historylover20 wrote:
    Topher was looking at the pictures before the bomb blew up. Something caught his eye. What was it? Was his picture up there? (I don't remember) or had he just never seen the tribute wall before?


    Almost certainly, Topher had never seen the tribute wall before (or at least he didn't remember having ever seen it). His picture wasn't there in E1 and I doubt it appeared there in E2 since it was only pictures of people who had already died. I thought it was nice that his last thoughts were of those who had died as a result of the Dollhouse tech just before he became one of them.

    historylover20 wrote:
    Why was Tony able to control the tech when the other techheads couldn't? Not that this wasn't a good thing, but still...


    I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. They were all able to control the tech, weren't they? Kilo and Romeo got greedy and wanted to steal some more advanced upgrades for themselves but they never lost control, exactly.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [117]Feb 13, 2010
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    It is so nice to have you back Adam.
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    ___Mr_Nasty___

    [118]Feb 13, 2010
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    Why thank you, Jennifer. It's nice to be back.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [119]Feb 13, 2010
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    Where were you anyways?
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    historylover20

    [120]Feb 13, 2010
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    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    historylover20 wrote:

    I'm not sure what all the Dushku hate is coming from. She's not the best actress, but she's all right.

    Plus, this wasn't Joss Whedon's show. It was Eliza Dushku's. She had the contract from Fox to produce and star in a show. She was the one who called Joss in. Yeah, maybe they shouldn't have planned a show over lunch or anything like that again. Or maybe Joss Whedon needs to do internet things for a while.

    Kat
    That makes no sense. Why would the network hire the actress/producer first and leave it to her to find a creator?

    Eliza had the contract with Fox to produce a show. So, yes, she spoke to Joss about ideas about a show. It may have been his idea, but it was her contract.

    Kat

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