Dollhouse Forums

FOX (ended 2010)

Official Discussion Thread - "Epitaph 2: Return"

  • Avatar of historylover20

    historylover20

    [121]Feb 13, 2010
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    I also don't think people know what a plot hole really is.

    A plot hole is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot. These include such things as unlikely behavior or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, events happening for no apparent reason, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.

    While many stories have unanswered questions, unlikely events or chance occurrences, a plot hole is one that is essential to the story's outcome. Plot holes are usually seen as weaknesses or flaws in a story, and writers usually try to avoid them to make their stories seem as realistic as possible.

    So, Alpha being sane and a good guy IS essential to the story's outcome. And there's no rhyme or reason for him being sane. He just was. Just a line or two would clear that up. It's unlikely behavior for Alpha, and it's an impossible event, by the perimeters of the story.

    Kat

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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [122]Feb 13, 2010
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    Alpha being sane was not essential to the outcome of the story.
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  • Avatar of ___Mr_Nasty___

    ___Mr_Nasty___

    [123]Feb 13, 2010
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    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    Where were you anyways?


    I was just busy with stuff over Christmas and New Year then found myself behind on Dollhouse and wanted to avoid spoilers.

    historylover20 wrote:
    Eliza had the contract with Fox to produce a show. So, yes, she spoke to Joss about ideas about a show. It may have been his idea, but it was her contract.


    I understand that Dollhouse may not have existed at all if it hadn't been for Eliza's friendship with Whedon and her contract with Fox and a bunch of other things but that's not really my point. He still decided to give up his time to help her out instead of pursuing some other project which may have had more chance of being awesome.

    historylover20 wrote:
    I also don't think people know what a plot hole really is.


    Wow, you just can't stop failing can you? I do know but why don't you copy paste a definition for me?

    historylover20 wrote:
    A plot hole is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot. These include such things as unlikely behavior or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, events happening for no apparent reason, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.

    While many stories have unanswered questions, unlikely events or chance occurrences, a plot hole is one that is essential to the story's outcome. Plot holes are usually seen as weaknesses or flaws in a story, and writers usually try to avoid them to make their stories seem as realistic as possible.


    Oh cool, thanks!

    historylover20 wrote:
    So, Alpha being sane and a good guy IS essential to the story's outcome. And there's no rhyme or reason for him being sane. He just was. Just a line or two would clear that up. It's unlikely behavior for Alpha, and it's an impossible event, by the perimeters of the story.


    Well, it's not an impossible event and clearly there is a reason for his change in attitude. We just didn't happen to get the details on it.

    If Alpha had turned up immediately after The Hollow Men when we know Echo et al had had no further contact with him and if he'd been acting all buddy-buddy then that would have been a plot hole. That wouldn't have made sense.

    Obviously though, there were ten years in the middle there that we missed. Stuff happened. It happened off-screen. Get over it.

    Besides, other characters have had more extreme personality changes in the space of a few seconds than Alpha had during those ten years. It's not against the flow of logic established by the story's plot; it's the very nature of the show.

    Y'see?
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  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [124]Feb 13, 2010
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    ___Mr_Nasty___ wrote:

    Either he died when the mainframe was destroyed and the "memory" in E1 was fabricated by someone still alive in the future to tell the story of the civilisation-ending tech or he was freed from the Attic sometime after Rossum fell and then wasn't seen after his confrontation with Adelle. It's a shame we didn't get to find out what happened with him since he clearly still had a role to play. Still, that's a loose end, not a plot hole.
    In Getting Closer Dominic was shown to have escaped from the Attic. Dominic is then sent to the infirmary where Dr. Saunders, Paul and Adelle debate about how to keep him stable. Adelle decided to send him to the attic from which he responds "I'd rather die".
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  • Avatar of michael_LB92

    michael_LB92

    [125]Feb 13, 2010
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    I mostly agree with what you said Adam, except for the whole "Your opinion doesn't matter if you didn't see Epitaph One" thing. And I would have said "fail" less.
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  • Avatar of historylover20

    historylover20

    [126]Feb 13, 2010
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    michael_LB92 wrote:
    I mostly agree with what you said Adam, except for the whole "Your opinion doesn't matter if you didn't see Epitaph One" thing. And I would have said "fail" less.

    No kidding. That was such a jerky thing to say.

    Of course, I'm now wondering why I come on this forum anymore anyways. There are too many people here insulting each other and being rude and inconsiderate to others. Over a cancelled TV show.

    So, have fun insulting each other. I'm gone.

    Bye you all who were actually nice.

    Kat

    Edited on 02/13/2010 8:18pm
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  • Avatar of spikemaniac

    spikemaniac

    [127]Feb 14, 2010
    • member since: 04/24/05
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    historylover20 wrote:

    michael_LB92 wrote:
    I mostly agree with what you said Adam, except for the whole "Your opinion doesn't matter if you didn't see Epitaph One" thing. And I would have said "fail" less.

    No kidding. That was such a jerky thing to say.

    Of course, I'm now wondering why I come on this forum anymore anyways. There are too many people here insulting each other and being rude and inconsiderate to others. Over a cancelled TV show.

    So, have fun insulting each other. I'm gone.

    Bye you all who were actually nice.

    Kat


    Oh don't go, historylover. I value your opinion. You actually put effort into episode discussions. Don't be turned off by Nasty Adam's nastiness.
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  • Avatar of lazyjay

    lazyjay

    [128]Feb 14, 2010
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    spikemaniac wrote:
    Don't be turned off by Nasty Adam's nastiness.
    We've all learned to live with it.
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  • Avatar of ___Mr_Nasty___

    ___Mr_Nasty___

    [129]Feb 14, 2010
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    KingofIPirates wrote:
    In Getting Closer Dominic was shown to have escaped from the Attic. Dominic is then sent to the infirmary where Dr. Saunders, Paul and Adelle debate about how to keep him stable. Adelle decided to send him to the attic from which he responds "I'd rather die".


    Ah yes, you're quite right, HellMaster. Seems we can be pretty sure his meeting with Adelle in E1 did indeed happen and chronologically that's the last we saw of him.

    michael_LB92 wrote:
    I mostly agree with what you said Adam, except for the whole "Your opinion doesn't matter if you didn't see Epitaph One" thing.


    It's not that it "doesn't matter" but it's certainly not worth very much. Everybody's entitled to their opinion, sure. However, some opinions are more valid, more informed, than others.

    michael_LB92 wrote:
    And I would have said "fail" less.


    It's not really a trademark of mine, I just thought it was funny when it was used earlier.

    historylover20 wrote:
    Of course, I'm now wondering why I come on this forum anymore anyways. There are too many people here insulting each other and being rude and inconsiderate to others. Over a cancelled TV show.

    So, have fun insulting each other. I'm gone.

    Bye you all who were actually nice.


    Doesn't really matter whether it's about a tv show or, indeed, a cancelled tv show. In any discussion people are entitled to point out the fallacy in the arguments of others.

    As for being insulted, perhaps I felt insulted when you said:

    historylover20 wrote:
    I also don't think people know what a plot hole really is.


    Hmmm, maybe? Since that's just as insulting, if not more so, than anything I wrote.

    Yeah, so I'm going to take your post as basically an admission that you were wrong and I'm right and you're too embarrassed to post here anymore.

    Ok bye!
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  • Avatar of ___Mr_Nasty___

    ___Mr_Nasty___

    [130]Feb 14, 2010
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    spikemaniac wrote:
    Oh don't go, historylover. I value your opinion. You actually put effort into episode discussions. Don't be turned off by Nasty Adam's nastiness.


    Yeah, don't go historylover20. I value your opinion, I just thought I should correct you on a few things there.
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  • Avatar of spikemaniac

    spikemaniac

    [131]Feb 14, 2010
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    You can correct people all you like Adam, you're usually right, but you don't have to be so mean.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [132]Feb 14, 2010
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    Yes just ignore him. He's like the retarded cousin that no one likes, but can't get rid of cause he's family.
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  • Avatar of TwistedConverse

    TwistedConverse

    [133]Feb 14, 2010
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    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    Yes just ignore him. He's like the retarded cousin that no one likes, but can't get rid of cause he's family.


    LOL.
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  • Avatar of Vesper-Lynd

    Vesper-Lynd

    [134]Feb 14, 2010
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    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    Yes just ignore him. He's like the retarded cousin that no one likes, but can't get rid of cause he's family.
    I really shouldn't be getting into this, but does this make anyone else think of Boyd's comment about Paul in "Getting Closer?"
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [135]Feb 14, 2010
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    Vesper-Lynd wrote:
    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    Yes just ignore him. He's like the retarded cousin that no one likes, but can't get rid of cause he's family.

    I really shouldn't be getting into this, but does this make anyone else think of Boyd's comment about Paul in "Getting Closer?"

    Well, I was going more for Clara's comment about Bladeez in The Guild, but that works too.
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  • Avatar of Lady_Lancaster

    Lady_Lancaster

    [136]Feb 14, 2010
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    *frown*. Such a pity.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [137]Feb 14, 2010
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    What is?
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  • Avatar of buffyTVSrox

    buffyTVSrox

    [138]Feb 14, 2010
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    spikemaniac wrote:
    You can correct people all you like Adam, you're usually right, but you don't have to be so mean.


    I enjoy it. It's not really meanness so much as sarcastic flavor.

    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    Well, I was going more for Clara's comment about Bladeez in The Guild, but that works too.


    Hey, when'd you start watching The Guild?
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  • Avatar of Lady_Lancaster

    Lady_Lancaster

    [139]Feb 14, 2010
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    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    What is?


    Never mind, Jennifer, I'm just having a cryptic moment but it really IS a pity.

    Anyhow, Dollhouse is done like a dinner and now we wait for what comes next, if anything, from the Whedon camp.
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  • Avatar of spikemaniac

    spikemaniac

    [140]Feb 14, 2010
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    buffyTVSrox wrote:
    spikemaniac wrote:
    You can correct people all you like Adam, you're usually right, but you don't have to be so mean.


    I enjoy it. It's not really meanness so much as sarcastic flavor.

    I'm sure the people it's directed at don't enjoy it.
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