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FOX (ended 2010)

Official Discussion Thread - "Instinct"

  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [101]Oct 4, 2009
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    I love the Firefly scale, Jay.

    And also, Madeline did annoy me somewhat. She seemed too cool and collected, even though she admitted she had a total breakdown after her daughter died. I was kinda hoping when that was revealed in Needs, that she had had some part in her daughter's death, accidental or not, to really drive it home that she was at the end of her rope and could not live with her actions.
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    Vesper-Lynd

    [102]Oct 4, 2009
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    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    I love the Firefly scale, Jay.

    And also, Madeline did annoy me somewhat. She seemed too cool and collected, even though she admitted she had a total breakdown after her daughter died. I was kinda hoping when that was revealed in Needs, that she had had some part in her daughter's death, accidental or not, to really drive it home that she was at the end of her rope and could not live with her actions.
    But wasn't she cool and collected because the Dollhouse took away her pain?
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    fatfreeoreos

    [103]Oct 4, 2009
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    Yes, but it still felt awkward to me.
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    michael_LB92

    [104]Oct 5, 2009
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    I didn't understand that bit. How did the Dollhouse take her pain away?

    Five years went by without her even knowing, so why wouldn't she be in the same state of mind she was before she joined? Did they do something to her brain to lessen her feelings or something?
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    KingofIPirates

    [105]Oct 5, 2009
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    They probably dampened the psychological effect of losing her child (which should be no trouble to Topher considering he adds different aspects of a number of psychological profiles when creating an imprint) in the copy they created of her original personality.
    Edited on 10/05/2009 12:43am
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    michael_LB92

    [106]Oct 5, 2009
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    I see... Madeline annoyed me a bit too.

    She's probably been my favourite character up until that episode.
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    toad7557

    [107]Oct 5, 2009
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    Maybe Madeline feels a bit better because of the closurey griefy bit in needs?
    Or, perhaps more likely, maybe Madeline is just a liar. /Justifying herself, trying to feel like it's worth it.
    Or maybe she's just not that great a person, and Mellie was sweeter.

    I do like seeing actresses and actors who aren't super skinny supermodels. Not that I don't love those ones too... =D
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    fatfreeoreos

    [108]Oct 5, 2009
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    I didn't even like her style. That dress and apartment were just too much for me. I suppose I am biased for liking her more as Mellie. The only thing I like her for is making Ballard uncomfortable. It really hit home the doll thing for me. That whole scene of them together I was just thinking, he's had sex with this woman, or her body at least, and she has no idea. It solidified the Dollhouse's creepiness for me.
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    Jacks_Son

    [109]Oct 5, 2009
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    For me, I find this series becoming increasingly frustrating. The engagements are just not very believable. In episode two, "Vows", Echo is married to a guy who is an arms dealer? How is this even possible and believable. Who hired the Dollhouse for this assignment? Was it for altruistic reasons or was there some organization that hired the Dollhouse to infiltrate the arms dealer's home? How long was Echo seeing the guy before they got married? No explanations are given and it just seems like a given scenario is pressented, and the audience is just supposed to accept it.

    This episode, "Instinct" is even worse. A guy hires an Active because he wants to bond with his newborn son? A son whom he blames for his wife's death? This guy is on the verge of putting his son up for adoption, but changes his mind and hires an Active? What kind of nonsense is that? Why not just take time off from work and deal with your son yourself or if you can't be there 24/7, hire a nanny. How is hiring an Active helping out the dad or the son. Make that TWO actives, as Sierra is there to provide comfort to Echo.

    This season lacks direction and long-term planning. I like Joss, but I think his previous works were more indicative of his talent than this stuff. I thought season one started out slow but it picked up towards the end and I was glad o see it hitting its stride. Now this season comes along, and it seems to me that the series has regressed.

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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [110]Oct 5, 2009
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    Jacks_Son wrote:
    Who hired the Dollhouse for this assignment? Was it for altruistic reasons or was there some organization that hired the Dollhouse to infiltrate the arms dealer's home? How long was Echo seeing the guy before they got married?

    In response to this, Ballard is clearly identified as the client. The FBI can't catch the guy, so he's going to utilize the Dollhouse to catch him himself. There may also be some part of him that wants to be close to Echo, even while putting her in a dangerous assignment. And while it's unclear exactly how long Echo was dating the guy, they state that it's a long term engagement. She still comes in for wipes every so often, but otherwise maintains the cover.
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    KingofIPirates

    [111]Oct 5, 2009
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    Jacks_Son wrote:
    A guy hires an Active because he wants to bond with his newborn son? A son whom he blames for his wife's death? This guy is on the verge of putting his son up for adoption, but changes his mind and hires an Active? What kind of nonsense is that? Why not just take time off from work and deal with your son yourself or if you can't be there 24/7, hire a nanny. How is hiring an Active helping out the dad or the son. Make that TWO actives, as Sierra is there to provide comfort to Echo.
    Now that I think about that does sound like a rather feeble rationale for hiring a doll, though while unlikely it probably has more to do with reliving the memory of his wife.
    Edited on 10/05/2009 12:12pm
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    ___Mr_Nasty___

    [112]Oct 5, 2009
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    Jacks_Son wrote:
    For me, I find this series becoming increasingly frustrating. The engagements are just not very believable. In episode two, "Vows",


    It's actually episode one. You lost count already? No matter.

    Jacks_Son wrote:
    Echo is married to a guy who is an arms dealer?


    Yes

    Jacks_Son wrote:
    How is this even possible and believable.


    They met. She was the perfect woman for him. He popped the question. They had a lovely service. I believe that sort of thing happens sometimes.

    Jacks_Son wrote:
    Who hired the Dollhouse for this assignment?


    It's pretty clear from the dialogue that Ballard is the client. Someone even says to him "you're the client". Obviously, he's not paying for it so much as he's being given a "freebie" worth tens of millions of dollars as part of his employment at the Dollhouse. Rossum is super rich. End of story.

    Jacks_Son wrote:
    Was it for altruistic reasons or was there some organization that hired the Dollhouse to infiltrate the arms dealer's home?


    Ballard knew him from his time at the FBI.

    Jacks_Son wrote:
    How long was Echo seeing the guy before they got married? No explanations are given and it just seems like a given scenario is pressented, and the audience is just supposed to accept it.


    I don't think we really need an answer to this one although it's likely been a few months that this has been going on. Remember that even though the episode takes place around the wedding, the intention was just to get close, not necessarily to marry the guy. He's just proving to be difficult to outmanoeuvre.

    Jacks_Son wrote:
    This episode, "Instinct" is even worse. A guy hires an Active because he wants to bond with his newborn son?


    Wrong. He can't bond with his son because he still partly blames his son for the death of his wife.

    Jacks_Son wrote:
    A son whom he blames for his wife's death?


    That's the one. He only has one son.

    Jacks_Son wrote:
    This guy is on the verge of putting his son up for adoption, but changes his mind and hires an Active?


    Because he wants to raise his son himself. He just doesn't want his own bitterness and resentment (which he can't really control) to rub off on the kid

    Jacks_Son wrote:
    What kind of nonsense is that?


    It's not nonsense. You just hadn't understood what was going on.

    Jacks_Son wrote:
    Why not just take time off from work and deal with your son yourself or if you can't be there 24/7,


    Again, you didn't understand what the problem was. See above.

    Jacks_Son wrote:
    Make that TWO actives, as Sierra is there to provide comfort to Echo.


    I agree that, on the whole, this seems like an exorbitantly expensive engagement considering how long it's likely to run and the fact that a social network has to be created for Echo to exist in. I didn't really like this episode though so, oh well.
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    buffyTVSrox

    [113]Oct 5, 2009
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    lazyjay wrote:
    On my Firefly scale (which I just started using) with Bushwhacked at the bottom and Objects in Space at the top, this episode rates somewhere around Our Mrs. Reynolds.


    That is a great scale. I'm gony start using it. "True Believer" was a Bushwhacked for me, "Epitaph One" was an Objects in Space, and this episode was, hmmm... Somewhere between a Train Job and an Our Mrs. Reynolds.

    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    That whole scene of them together I was just thinking, he's had sex with this woman, or her body at least, and she has no idea. It solidified the Dollhouse's creepiness for me.


    Ooh, that's a really good thought. Totally creepy.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [114]Oct 5, 2009
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    ___Mr_Nasty___ wrote:
    ...

    Well said Adam.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [115]Oct 5, 2009
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    buffyTVSrox wrote:
    lazyjay wrote:
    On my Firefly scale (which I just started using) with Bushwhacked at the bottom and Objects in Space at the top, this episode rates somewhere around Our Mrs. Reynolds.


    That is a great scale. I'm gony start using it. "True Believer" was a Bushwhacked for me, "Epitaph One" was an Objects in Space, and this episode was, hmmm... Somewhere between a Train Job and an Our Mrs. Reynolds.

    I wanna set up my own scale now.
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  • Avatar of ___Mr_Nasty___

    ___Mr_Nasty___

    [117]Oct 5, 2009
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    Jacks_Son wrote:
    ___Nasty___, thanks for explaining things. Can you answer this question: How did Echo acquire the dead wife's memories?


    I don't think she did. What makes you think that?

    Oh, you mean the wedding being in the same place? Probably just used those exact wedding pictures to create Echo's fake memories of her own wedding.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [118]Oct 5, 2009
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    Yeah I thought that too, that it was simply an imprint of the dead wife, but then I figured that it's just simply a mother with the same memories of their marriage but a different history.
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    Lady_Lancaster

    [119]Oct 5, 2009
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    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    Yeah I thought that too, that it was simply an imprint of the dead wife, but then I figured that it's just simply a mother with the same memories of their marriage but a different history.


    I don't like Mellie, Madeline or any other version. Annoys the heck out of me, but again, I'm a nit-picker.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [120]Oct 5, 2009
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    Lady_Lancaster wrote:
    I don't like Mellie, Madeline or any other version. Annoys the heck out of me, but again, I'm a nit-picker.

    Is it the way Miracle plays her or the way she's written?
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