Dollhouse Forums

FOX (ended 2010)

Official Discussion Thread - "Vows"

  • Avatar of chris17blue

    chris17blue

    [21]Sep 26, 2009
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    I can't believe I'm saying this but I hated this episode. I absolutely love the show ever since the second episode (well honestly I disliked the pilot) and up until now it's been amazing. But this whole episode was a mess. Where do I start?

    First the set was changed, and now everything looks cheap/poorly made. It's filmed differently now which I don't like as well. During the action scenes the camera was shaking! I just can't believe it. It was horrible, the story, the acting everything was disconnected. It didn't feel real, I couldn't understand what was happening through the whole episode. Is it just me? Wow! I'm shocked. I hope for a better episode next week.
    Edited on 09/26/2009 12:51am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [22]Sep 26, 2009
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    It is just you, no offense. The set wasn't changed.
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  • Avatar of chris17blue

    chris17blue

    [23]Sep 26, 2009
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    The set looks different, may be I need to rewatch the episode again. Hopefully this time around I will understand at least part of the things happening.
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  • Avatar of Dudekotka

    Dudekotka

    [24]Sep 26, 2009
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    chris17blue wrote:
    I can't believe I'm saying this but I hated this episode. I absolutely love the show ever since the second episode (well honestly I disliked the pilot) and up until now it's been amazing. But this whole episode was a mess. Where do I start?

    First the set was changed, and now everything looks cheap/poorly made. It's filmed differently now which I don't like as well. During the action scenes the camera was shaking! I just can't believe it. It was horrible, the story, the acting everything was disconnected. It didn't feel real, I couldn't understand what was happening through the whole episode. Is it just me? Wow! I'm shocked. I hope for a better episode next week.


    They film with the same lens they used in the way cheaper Epitaph One bonus episode now. That's probably why you think it looks cheap/poorly made. But what was bad about the story? And some of the acting was perfect.. But it's all opinions and I hope you enjoy future episodes more.

    I loved it, I got chills when Topher said "I know what I know".. And the contract thing combined with the "You don't know me", I somehow got the feeling that Topher could be an active.. Probably just my imagination though.

    Amy Acker was really great in this episode, I was hoping she'd get the scars removed, just for continuity purposes, but that can happen anytime. I was also kind of hoping for more Boyd interaction, and that she also would look at Alexix Denisof when he was on the TV.. But she stole the focus anyways.
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  • Avatar of fatfreeoreos

    fatfreeoreos

    [25]Sep 26, 2009
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    Topher's not an active, they showed him applying for the job in Epitaph One. And I don't know why the cameras make everything look cheap, they're Hi Def.
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  • Avatar of chris17blue

    chris17blue

    [26]Sep 26, 2009
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    Well, I really couldn't understand much of what was happening. It was too disconnected, in one scene detective Ballard is working with Echo then they call him a client and in the next he is working for the Dollhouse? I'm just really confused by what was happening and how it was happening.

    Another thing how can Echo marry a client so fast? I tought "dolls" were only paid for a day or few days (may be a weekend) but not for a longer period of time. And in this case who paid for Echo? I'm sorry, just too confused by this whole thing of a mess.

    The only thing I liked in this episode was Amy Acker and her character. She was starting to act all crazy and I loved it!

    Edited on 09/26/2009 1:59am
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  • Avatar of buffyTVSrox

    buffyTVSrox

    [27]Sep 26, 2009
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    chris17blue wrote:
    It was too disconnected, in one scene detective Ballard is working with Echo then they call him a client and in the next he is working for the Dollhouse?


    They called him a client because he was using Echo, but he was still working with/for the Dollhouse. He wasn't a client in the traditional sense.

    chris17blue wrote:
    Another thing how can Echo marry a client so fast? I tought "dolls" were only paid for a day or few days (may be a weekend) but not for a longer period of time.


    Echo was repeatedly imprinted with the same woman. And as she was playing someone perfect for the arms dealer, it didn't take many dates before he wanted to marry her. The repeated imprints aren't unprecedented; look at Adelle and her repeated use of the same Victor imprint. It is possible to carry on an extended relationship with a doll in this fashion.

    chris17blue wrote:
    And in this case who paid for Echo?


    No one. It was a favor the Dollhouse was doing for Ballard, since Ballard had agreed to work with them.
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  • Avatar of chris17blue

    chris17blue

    [28]Sep 26, 2009
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    Wow, thanks. I wish I could figure it out myself...

    May be I'm just not used to the new way the show is being directed. But they need to make things more clear, not leave me wondering what just happened.

    Another thing was the whole conversation between Topher and Dr. Saunders, what was that all about? Why would Topher program her to hate him? Why was she coming on to him, is it because she is confused of who she is? In the end, did she leave the Dollhouse?

    Edited on 09/26/2009 2:14am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of Dudekotka

    Dudekotka

    [29]Sep 26, 2009
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    fatfreeoreos wrote:
    Topher's not an active, they showed him applying for the job in Epitaph One

    True, but they could also just have imprinted the Topher-doll with what they had programmed so far, and just gave him the job.. I know it's a way to big stretch and it sounds silly, but I just got the feeling that he was a doll, and that he knew it.

    chris17blue wrote:
    Another thing was the whole conversation between Topher and Dr. Saunders, what was that all about? Why would Topher program her to hate him? Why was she coming on to him, is it because she is confused of who she is? In the end, did she leave the Dollhouse?

    She didn't program her to hate him, he programmed her to have opposing views so they would notice everything. And I think she came on to him because she thought she had figured out her programming and just skipped ahead, but she was wrong.. So, yeah, confused. And she left the Dollhouse, yeah. But she'll most likely be back because Whedon said something about her being in three episodes or something.
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  • Avatar of ___Mr_Nasty___

    ___Mr_Nasty___

    [30]Sep 26, 2009
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    I saw TV's Dollhouse now!

    buffyTVSrox wrote:
    Aww, I'm sad the new opening credits still don't focus on anyone but Echo. But they are cooler than the old ones in my opinion.


    Yeah, I'm a wee bit sad about this too. At least this episode did a good job of reasserting that Echo is the main character.

    KingofIPirates wrote:
    Ecko


    Fail.
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  • Avatar of lazyjay

    lazyjay

    [31]Sep 26, 2009
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    chris17blue wrote:
    Another thing was the whole conversation between Topher and Dr. Saunders, what was that all about? Why would Topher program her to hate him? Why was she coming on to him, is it because she is confused of who she is? In the end, did she leave the Dollhouse?

    If you remember from the end of Omega, Whiskey/Claire/Saunders asked Topher why he made her hate him. That was paid off in this episode with Topher's explanation that he wanted her to be a person and not just someone who would blindly accept his thoughts. She was coming on to him to try to prove to herself, and Topher, that she was more than what he programmed her to be, that she could change what he made of her. I think she did leave in the end. Her note to Boyd, along with her driving away, left me with a feeling of almost finality. She may be back to wrap up some loose ends, but not as a regular. We know, from Epitaph One, that she does eventually return to the Dollhouse and become a key player in the whole milieu. (I think that's the first time I've ever typed that word. Yay!)

    Okay... general impressions of Vows. Holy effing hell it was amazing. The engagement story was exciting (and had a cool 'splosion). I loved Ballard trying to trigger Echo's assassin imprint by beating her up.

    The Saunders/Boyd story was touching, especially considering the relationship we saw in Epitaph One.

    Topher's "I know what I know" was a chilling callback to Epitaph One. The interplay between him and Whiskey was just brilliant. With Bride of Frankenstein. And rats. And Fozzy Bear!!!

    Echo's "I remember everything" speech was seriously game changing. Makes you wonder, in an effed up sense, whether Alpha may have really been on to something.

    Adelle - hhnnnn - Freakin' cool and sexy as ever, but I prefer her old hair. As if it matters. The tempura news anchor thing was bloody hilarious.

    Over all, this episode showcased Joss at his finest. I said it earlier somewhere else, but it bears repeating... If future episodes maintain similar quality, Dollhouse has a serious chance of surpassing Firefly as my favorite thing ever on TV. And that's a huge deal.
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  • Avatar of LukCPL

    LukCPL

    [32]Sep 26, 2009
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    This episode was just classic Joss. It had more Whedon in it than, almost the entire first season. I've had my hopes up after watching, the 13th ep on dvd, and I didn't get disappointed. Eliza was on top form, but still Amy Acker stole the show. She was just great in every scene (esp the one with Topher)

    Can't wait for the next ep



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  • Avatar of puredieselbc

    puredieselbc

    [33]Sep 26, 2009
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    Every scene with Dr. Claire had my undivided attention. Am I wrong to hope Amy Acker's other show on ABC fails so we can get her back? I kept wishing that Boyd could help her like he did Echo last season and the mindbending moments with Topher (btw has Fran been working out? Holy biceps Batman! ) were just wonderful. I loved it when after he asks, "So you weren't trying to sleep with me?" she replies "I don't even like the smell of you." LOL OMG that was priceless.

    Question: How come Topher sleeps on an air matress in the room with the computer servers? My God Rossum is cheap!

    Glad they gave Victor plastic surgery to fix his slashed face. Now he can truly be his best. Speaking of the best, loved the nice shipping moment between him and Sierra holding hands. That was sweet.

    Still not interested in the engagement of the week thing but I'm glad they didn't focus much on it this episode. Plus Adelle's hair cut is too short. It makes her already angular face look too severe. Overall though, worth the wait. Can't wait for next week .

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  • Avatar of TwistedConverse

    TwistedConverse

    [34]Sep 26, 2009
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    Just seen it and it was AMAZING! .

    I really actually enjoyed the engagement of the week this time - thought it was far more interesting than most of the S1 ones and they didn't focus much on it, which was good.

    Scenes with Claire and Topher were just fantastic, Amy Acker was excellent all episode. I'm so sad she left at the end, stupid Happy Town ruining everything . Is it so bad that I really hope it's cancelled?

    Eliza was fantastic here imo, she has really, really improved. Loved the way Echo kept changing her personality, made me realized Eliza plays them all really different. And "Who did they make me this time?" what an awesome line, great delivery.

    So little Adelle in this episode though . I don't much like her new hair, she's still hot as hell but longer was better. I loved how she kept touching Victor's face and he just said "You keep touching my face". And Sierra/Ivy scene was so funny, I forget the exact line but I LOL'd at the one about spanking.

    Really weird to see Alexis with his normal accent, I'm so used to his English one! Glad he's in the show, he is an awesome actor.

    The scene at the end with Echo and Paul confused me a bit though - what did she mean? I'll have to watch it again later.

    Such an excellent episode! I can't wait for the rest of S2 and hopefully beyond . Let's just hope ratings are around 4 million.
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  • Avatar of TwistedConverse

    TwistedConverse

    [35]Sep 26, 2009
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    Seen the preview for next week, it looks freakin' awesome! Can't wait to see it now, "Mommy's home" that was really creepy.
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    Vesper-Lynd

    [36]Sep 26, 2009
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    I kinda wish they didn't cut to commercial after "Who'd they make me this time?" it would've been interesting to see his reaction and then hers, but I guess it was somewhat made up once he said she was playing the wrong part once she glitched back to Crystal... I think.
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    AnilThornberry

    [37]Sep 26, 2009
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    Aw mann look at the ratings. All the hype and DVD's haven't really helped...ughh!!

    Dollhouse averaged 2.56 million

    We won't get a 3rd season or maybe not even all the 13 episodes. Lets just hope we at least get to see all the 13 episodes.
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  • Avatar of piranhapete

    piranhapete

    [38]Sep 26, 2009
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    chris17blue wrote:
    May be I'm just not used to the new way the show is being directed. But they need to make things more clear, not leave me wondering what just happened.


    Can I ask if you were doing anything else as you watched? I can much more easily understand difficulty with the plot if you weren't devoting your whole attention to the show.

    Even if you were, yeah, the plot's moving much more ellusively than, say, the very first episodes, but I really had no trouble. I think a second viewing would clear things up, but honestly I would rather television to overestimate my intelligence than underestimate it.

    And while I respect your opinion, I really disagree with the new filming style. The shaking-at-times camera made me really feel like the show was more real and not so glossy, which was a small issue I felt with the first season.
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    KingofIPirates

    [39]Sep 26, 2009
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    The_Dude14 wrote:
    And whatever it may be in the transcript, I did not hear "freaking."
    Because it wasn't exactly "freaking. She seemed to have added an extra 'u' or 'e' to it making it sound like 'fureaking' or 'fereaking'; could be attributed to her accent.
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  • Avatar of chris17blue

    chris17blue

    [40]Sep 26, 2009
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    piranhapete wrote:
    chris17blue wrote:
    May be I'm just not used to the new way the show is being directed. But they need to make things more clear, not leave me wondering what just happened.
    Can I ask if you were doing anything else as you watched? I can much more easily understand difficulty with the plot if you weren't devoting your whole attention to the show. Even if you were, yeah, the plot's moving much more ellusively than, say, the very first episodes, but I really had no trouble. I think a second viewing would clear things up, but honestly I would rather television to overestimate my intelligence than underestimate it. And while I respect your opinion, I really disagree with the new filming style. The shaking-at-times camera made me really feel like the show was more real and not so glossy, which was a small issue I felt with the first season.

    No, I wasn't doing anything else. I'm not easily distracted.....I tried to understand what's happening, but the scenes kept changing. I too respect your opinion so I'm glad you like the way it was shot.

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