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FOX (ended 2010)

S01E00 - Unaired Pilot "Echo" Discussion

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  • Avatar of michael_LB92

    michael_LB92

    [1]Jul 18, 2009
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    A discussion reserved for the Unaired Pilot "Echo".

    Definite spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

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  • Avatar of michael_LB92

    michael_LB92

    [2]Jul 18, 2009
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    I thought this episode was awesome! So much better than Ghost.

    I thought the start of it explained it much better than Ghost. I didn't find it complicated at all. FOX obviously just wanted a standalone story, because this one was much more serialized. I loved it. Seriously. Probably the best Pilot episode from Joss.

    It revealed about the same amount as the first 3 episodes. The only thing that actually didn't fit was how Boyd was collecting Echo and she went off mission even though she was about to go for a treatment. She does go off-mission sometimes, but never when she's in her "treatment"y mode.

    But honestly. 9/10, it was interesting all the way through and provided a much better construction to the beginning of the series.
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  • Avatar of lazyjay

    lazyjay

    [3]Jul 18, 2009
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    michael_LB92 wrote:

    A discussion reserved for the Unaired Pilot "Echo".

    Definite spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.


    Have I told you recently how much I hate you?

    Grr.

    I'm kidding of course. I'm just incredibly jealous.
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  • Avatar of michael_LB92

    michael_LB92

    [4]Jul 18, 2009
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    lazyjay wrote:
    michael_LB92 wrote:

    A discussion reserved for the Unaired Pilot "Echo".

    Definite spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.


    Have I told you recently how much I hate you?

    Grr.

    I'm kidding of course. I'm just incredibly jealous.

    Then become a scummy-illegally-downloading person like me.
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  • Avatar of TwistedConverse

    TwistedConverse

    [5]Jul 18, 2009
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    So now you've seen 2 episodes that I haven't, Michael?

    You're lucky all my jealousy is focused on Jay at the moment .
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  • Avatar of Doom442

    Doom442

    [6]Jul 18, 2009
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    I have to say, even though i loved this pilot, i think Fox getting Joss to redo it worked out much better. Things were revealed far too quickly and became too rushed. Victor being a Doll revealed in the first episode was far too quick since you only saw him for one scene and didnt have time to get to know him for it to really to be a shock. Also Paul meeting Caroline right away was too rushed since he was only scratching the surface and boom he finds her. Even though it was set up by D'witt he now knows he's right and didnt have time to become a bit paranoid and over the top that he did in the series.

    Although i did like how we saw the Dollhouse's side for Victors assignment and the reasons why Victor sent him to these area's (the basement to get shot, etc).

    8/10, but i feel we got alot more depth once this was spread across the actual series

    Edited on 07/18/2009 8:48am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of chicc_o

    chicc_o

    [7]Jul 18, 2009
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    Actually i liked this one much more than Ghost , if the series have gone like that it would have absloutly be a hit , it's amazing packed episode , i liked it soo much , we actually got to see the last scene in the season in episode one , can you emagine how far could the series have gone if this was the original pilot , i hope season 2 will be like this one , i really want a hit from Joss , dollhouse is amazing , but not a hit yet , GO FOR IT JOSSS , the second season must ROCK like Buffy and Angel did
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  • Avatar of michael_LB92

    michael_LB92

    [8]Jul 18, 2009
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    Doom442 wrote:
    Things were revealed far too quickly and became too rushed.

    That's true. Some thing which needed to be fleshed out just weren't; but overall I think the episode stood better by itself. Had this not been a Joss show, I would have dropped the show after episode one or two. With this pilot, I would have stuck on for a while.
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  • Avatar of chelanza

    chelanza

    [9]Jul 18, 2009
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    Doom442 wrote:

    I have to say, even though i loved this pilot, i think Fox getting Joss to redo it worked out much better. Things were revealed far too quickly and became too rushed. Victor being a Doll revealed in the first episode was far too quick since you only saw him for one scene and didnt have time to get to know him for it to really to be a shock. Also Paul meeting Caroline right away was too rushed since he was only scratching the surface and boom he finds her. Even though it was set up by D'witt he now knows he's right and didnt have time to become a bit paranoid and over the top that he did in the series.

    Although i did like how we saw the Dollhouse's side for Victors assignment and the reasons why Victor sent him to these area's (the basement to get shot, etc).

    8/10, but i feel we got alot more depth once this was spread across the actual series



    you took the words right out of my mouth... you sure you aren't a mind reader? I couldn't have described my reaction to this any better...
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  • Avatar of marto_dd

    marto_dd

    [10]Jul 19, 2009
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    chelanza wrote:
    Doom442 wrote:

    I have to say, even though i loved this pilot, i think Fox getting Joss to redo it worked out much better. Things were revealed far too quickly and became too rushed. Victor being a Doll revealed in the first episode was far too quick since you only saw him for one scene and didnt have time to get to know him for it to really to be a shock. Also Paul meeting Caroline right away was too rushed since he was only scratching the surface and boom he finds her. Even though it was set up by D'witt he now knows he's right and didnt have time to become a bit paranoid and over the top that he did in the series.

    Although i did like how we saw the Dollhouse's side for Victors assignment and the reasons why Victor sent him to these area's (the basement to get shot, etc).

    8/10, but i feel we got alot more depth once this was spread across the actual series

    you took the words right out of my mouth... you sure you aren't a mind reader? I couldn't have described my reaction to this any better...

    I liked the pilot, but I am glad that Fox decided to make a new one. This pilot really explained the things well, but the show would have been really different starting like that. And it would have developed differently, if that was the beginning.

    So - good episode, but I am glad it wasn't the actual pilot.

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  • Avatar of spikemaniac

    spikemaniac

    [11]Jul 19, 2009
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    Okay here is my commentary. It's just random thoughts as I watched it. It's kinda long. Yay feotus underwater Echo!

    Adelle looks hella sexy!

    The blonde girl at the beginning kinda looks like the girl that Alpha shoved Caroline in in "Omega". Is it her? It has to be. Hehe, Echo's "GET OUT!" was very Dawn-esque.

    Adelle looks sooooo freaking good. She needs to be licked. Oooh Ballard and Lubov scene. I've seen this before, they must've used it in another episode. This is a good scene. I'm glad they left it in the show. "Yeah. People are crap." Hehe I love Lubov. OMJ Sierra is in so much pink. Sierra makes such a lovely active. She's really adorable. Well Echo is too, but Sierra is just something else. Small criticism: in the Echo/Sierra eating scene, Sierra says "I try to be my best" and Echo says "are you?". When we saw this scene in a later episode, we could see that Echo saying that is kinda abnormal for an active, because we see from previous episodes that they don't really seem like they should be questioning anything. That's why I think it's weird to show Blank Echo acting abnormal in the first tabula rasa scene. First time viewers wouldn't have been able to tell that she was different. Topher's speech to Boyd about everybody being programmed is epic.
    What's with all his chess boards?
    I don't like how Topher called Dr Saunders "The Phantom". Oooh Paul meeting Caroline already. I like this. And wow look at her chest.

    HAHAHA Topher. "You know how I feel about rules. Or you might not, I feel oody about them." "I wanted it, but know I don't. It passed. Like gas."

    Saunders' scars look slightly different. Not as cool. They look better now. And she has no mysterious freckle!

    Echo's "I'm not nobody" *shoots gun* is awesome. Who is Adelle talking to on the phone? She said "sir"! I wonder who she answers to. Gasp! Echo is remembering hospital girl!

    Awwww the ending! Echo in her pod "Caroline". Dejavu from "Omega" anyone?

    Wow. Okay. Definitely a great ep. 1000 times better than Echo.
    Though I see where FOX was coming from, it does feel a tiny bit rushed. I would have been confused. I think spread out over 2 eps it would have been better. But saying that, I do think the show would have been so different with this pilot. Where's Mellie? I can't see Dollhouse without November.
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  • Avatar of spikemaniac

    spikemaniac

    [12]Jul 19, 2009
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    michael_LB92 wrote:
    Probably the best Pilot episode from Joss.

    Agreed.


    michael_LB92 wrote:
    It revealed about the same amount as the first 3 episodes.

    Agreed. Probably up to episodes 4 and 5 too.

    michael_LB92 wrote:
    The only thing that actually didn't fit was how Boyd was collecting Echo and she went off mission even though she was about to go for a treatment. She does go off-mission sometimes, but never when she's in her "treatment"y mode.

    Yeah I noticed that. It really annoyed me. One of the only things I didn't like much.

    Doom442 wrote:
    Things were revealed far too quickly and became too rushed.

    I agree. It was great for us, we've already seen 12 episodes and are familiar with the premise. But it seemed a bit too much for a single pilot. A 2-parter would've been awesome.


    Doom442 wrote:
    Victor being a Doll revealed in the first episode was far too quick since you only saw him for one scene and didnt have time to get to know him for it to really to be a shock.

    Definitely agreed. That was a big gasp for me.


    Doom442 wrote:
    Also Paul meeting Caroline right away was too rushed since he was only scratching the surface and boom he finds her.

    Yes. Agreed. I liked it when he saw her in "Man on the Street". It was more of a lead up.


    Doom442 wrote:
    Although i did like how we saw the Dollhouse's side for Victors assignment and the reasons why Victor sent him to these area's (the basement to get shot, etc).

    Yes! I noticed that! I also really liked that, it made a whole lot more sense.
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  • Avatar of ___Mr_Nasty___

    ___Mr_Nasty___

    [13]Jul 30, 2009
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    spikemaniac wrote:
    michael_LB92 wrote:
    The only thing that actually didn't fit was how Boyd was collecting Echo and she went off mission even though she was about to go for a treatment. She does go off-mission sometimes, but never when she's in her "treatment"y mode.

    Yeah I noticed that. It really annoyed me. One of the only things I didn't like much.


    Yeah, I think the inclusion of a safe word like "treatment" which overpowers whatever other desires the imprint has was a good idea in the show. Apart from anything else, it only makes sense that something like like that would exist as part of the Dollouse's control over their Actives.

    Doom442 wrote:
    Victor being a Doll revealed in the first episode was far too quick since you only saw him for one scene and didnt have time to get to know him for it to really to be a shock.


    It wasn't really a big shock anyway, I didn't think. Sure, the impact would have been lessened further by having it revealed in the first episode but I don't buy the "too much, too soon" argument. We don't know what the pacing of future episodes would have been or where the show would have gone by freeing up the extra episodes.

    Plus, it's not like the episode became confusing through throwing all this setup information at us. Even if you went in only knowing vaguely what the show was supposed to be about, it's all explained well enough in the first five-ten minutes anyway.

    I thought this whole episode worked better as a pilot than Ghost. It had more hooks to intrigue the viewer and used the Topher-Boyd scenes and the various engagements to set up a more morally ambiguous perspective of the Dollhouse as opposed to Ghost which was more like 'Dollhouse saves young children from bad men and sexually pleasures spoiled rich kids for money'

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  • Avatar of michael_LB92

    michael_LB92

    [14]Jul 31, 2009
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    ___Mr_Nasty___ wrote:
    Plus, it's not like the episode became confusing through throwing all this setup information at us. Even if you went in only knowing vaguely what the show was supposed to be about, it's all explained well enough in the first five-ten minutes anyway.

    I actually thought that Adele's voice-over-iness was much better than the way "Ghost" introduced the whole thing. Like, it was easier to follow, and much more interesting than seeing Eliza on a motorbike, then dancing, then getting into a van and being brainwashed.
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  • Avatar of TwistedConverse

    TwistedConverse

    [15]Jul 31, 2009
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    But Eliza's dancing was ... enjoyable .
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  • Avatar of LukCPL

    LukCPL

    [16]Aug 5, 2009
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    Wow, it was a fantastic episode. So much better then the one FOX wanted. I have no idea what was their problem with it. OK maybe it moves a bit fast, but that's hardly a complaint, as I was glued to the screen the entire time

    + I think the next episodes after that pilot, would have probably been much better then the ones we've got

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  • Avatar of Lady_Lancaster

    Lady_Lancaster

    [17]Aug 6, 2009
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    I enjoyed "Ghost" better. The original revealed too much too soon. I also thought "Ghost" slowed everything down in general to a more "grasp the storyline" pace.
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