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Frieza has a power level of 120,000,000

  • Avatar of PrinceVegeta2

    PrinceVegeta2

    [61]Dec 6, 2005
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    Actually everyone else thought that Vegeta would be able to match Frieza in his 4th form...... If Goku was really as weak as you say he was he would have been brutally killed.... no questtions asked. Frieza even offered Goku a job..... what does that tell you. Also I'm pretty sure that AT meant for Goku to have used kaiken EVER SINCE Frieza powered up as well. But since it's never stated exactly it is speculation to conclude something factual from that. It's true Goku stated he was weaker than Frieza. But it is still possible that Goku was in the 3,000,000 range while Frieza was in the 3,500,000. (only onve Frieza was using a small portion of his power) Thus making Goku guess that he wouldn't be able to beat Frieza. Remeber Vegeta and Dodoria had a power difference of less than 5,000. Yet Vegeta was whooping Dodoria. So difference based on power is surely not accurate.
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    PrinceVegeta2

    [62]Dec 6, 2005
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    fluffman4 wrote:
    (growls in frustration)... this is like trying to teach a hick how to date people out of their bloodline.


    I didn't expect you to be able to understand everything with your level of knowlege. So maybe you can atleast post something to back yourself up.... that doesn't contradict itself or ignore something that has been proved wrong. If you can back your posts up like onetruepheonix then by all means post as much as you desire. But if not then refrain from posting because not only are you NOT helping either side in this argument but by your posting it is apparent that you are putting too much stress on your brain.
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  • Avatar of fluffman4

    fluffman4

    [63]Dec 6, 2005
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    PrinceVegeta2 wrote:
    fluffman4 wrote:
    (growls in frustration)... this is like trying to teach a hick how to date people out of their bloodline.


    I didn't expect you to be able to understand everything with your level of knowlege. So maybe you can atleast post something to back yourself up.... that doesn't contradict itself or ignore something that has been proved wrong. If you can back your posts up like onetruepheonix then by all means post as much as you desire. But if not then refrain from posting because not only are you NOT helping either side in this argument but by your posting it is apparent that you are putting too much stress on your brain.


    and you're telling me not to contradict myself... you do that about every other post as onetruephoneix has pointed out. And yet... you're insulting me, i'm just saying that both sides are not gonna accept the other's arguements, and being the "mature" person you are, you insult me and my intellect. Yeah... real mature.
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  • Avatar of PrinceVegeta2

    PrinceVegeta2

    [64]Dec 6, 2005
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    fluffman4 wrote:
    PrinceVegeta2 wrote:
    fluffman4 wrote:
    (growls in frustration)... this is like trying to teach a hick how to date people out of their bloodline.


    I didn't expect you to be able to understand everything with your level of knowlege. So maybe you can atleast post something to back yourself up.... that doesn't contradict itself or ignore something that has been proved wrong. If you can back your posts up like onetruepheonix then by all means post as much as you desire. But if not then refrain from posting because not only are you NOT helping either side in this argument but by your posting it is apparent that you are putting too much stress on your brain.


    and you're telling me not to contradict myself... you do that about every other post as onetruephoneix has pointed out. And yet... you're insulting me, i'm just saying that both sides are not gonna accept the other's arguements, and being the "mature" person you are, you insult me and my intellect. Yeah... real mature.


    Actually what I am trying to point out (which you helped me point out just now thanks to your post)is that you never read any of my posts.

    Also if you meant to point that out, it sure didn't seem like your INTENT was that.

    I don't desire to continue our little skirmish here, so I suggest we drop it. Unless you wish to continue.....
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  • Avatar of OneTruePhoenix

    OneTruePhoenix

    [65]Dec 6, 2005
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    PrinceVegeta2 wrote:
    Actually everyone else thought that Vegeta would be able to match Frieza in his 4th form...... If Goku was really as weak as you say he was he would have been brutally killed.... no questtions asked. Frieza even offered Goku a job..... what does that tell you. Also I'm pretty sure that AT meant for Goku to have used kaiken EVER SINCE Frieza powered up as well. But since it's never stated exactly it is speculation to conclude something factual from that. It's true Goku stated he was weaker than Frieza. But it is still possible that Goku was in the 3,000,000 range while Frieza was in the 3,500,000. (only onve Frieza was using a small portion of his power) Thus making Goku guess that he wouldn't be able to beat Frieza. Remeber Vegeta and Dodoria had a power difference of less than 5,000. Yet Vegeta was whooping Dodoria. So difference based on power is surely not accurate.


    How about, just for the sake of keeping this shorter, we just leave Vegeta's power out of this for now, and get straight to the point? I could continue with him, but I like to just go for the core of debates.

    I very seriously doubt that Goku would have doubts about beating Frieza if their powers were really that close. Did you forget about the Kaioken? If they were really so close that there was only a 500,000 difference, then Goku going even Kaioken x3 would allow him to annihilate Frieza before he got the chance to power up, let alone Kaioken x20. Instead, Goku had true doubts about being able to defeat Frieza, and that was even before he realized how far Frieza's power actually went. He thought Frieza was bluffing when he said he wasn't even using half of his true power. That shows that Goku greatly underestimated Frieza's strength, and still had doubts about beating him. If that doesn't show how much weaker Goku was than Frieza, then I don't know what to tell you.

    Also, at powers of 3,000,000 and above, a 500,000 difference wouldn't make a difference large enough to put doubt into Goku's mind, especially since he knew he could always use the Kaioken if need be. That does not make sense to me at all.
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  • Avatar of fluffman4

    fluffman4

    [66]Dec 7, 2005
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    PrinceVegeta2 wrote:
    fluffman4 wrote:
    PrinceVegeta2 wrote:
    fluffman4 wrote:
    (growls in frustration)... this is like trying to teach a hick how to date people out of their bloodline.


    I didn't expect you to be able to understand everything with your level of knowlege. So maybe you can atleast post something to back yourself up.... that doesn't contradict itself or ignore something that has been proved wrong. If you can back your posts up like onetruepheonix then by all means post as much as you desire. But if not then refrain from posting because not only are you NOT helping either side in this argument but by your posting it is apparent that you are putting too much stress on your brain.


    and you're telling me not to contradict myself... you do that about every other post as onetruephoneix has pointed out. And yet... you're insulting me, i'm just saying that both sides are not gonna accept the other's arguements, and being the "mature" person you are, you insult me and my intellect. Yeah... real mature.


    Actually what I am trying to point out (which you helped me point out just now thanks to your post)is that you never read any of my posts.

    Also if you meant to point that out, it sure didn't seem like your INTENT was that.

    I don't desire to continue our little skirmish here, so I suggest we drop it. Unless you wish to continue.....


    nah, we can drop it... pointless to continue.
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  • Avatar of PrinceVegeta2

    PrinceVegeta2

    [67]Dec 8, 2005
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    fluffman4 wrote:
    PrinceVegeta2 wrote:
    fluffman4 wrote:
    PrinceVegeta2 wrote:
    fluffman4 wrote:
    (growls in frustration)... this is like trying to teach a hick how to date people out of their bloodline.


    I didn't expect you to be able to understand everything with your level of knowlege. So maybe you can atleast post something to back yourself up.... that doesn't contradict itself or ignore something that has been proved wrong. If you can back your posts up like onetruepheonix then by all means post as much as you desire. But if not then refrain from posting because not only are you NOT helping either side in this argument but by your posting it is apparent that you are putting too much stress on your brain.


    and you're telling me not to contradict myself... you do that about every other post as onetruephoneix has pointed out. And yet... you're insulting me, i'm just saying that both sides are not gonna accept the other's arguements, and being the "mature" person you are, you insult me and my intellect. Yeah... real mature.


    Actually what I am trying to point out (which you helped me point out just now thanks to your post)is that you never read any of my posts.

    Also if you meant to point that out, it sure didn't seem like your INTENT was that.

    I don't desire to continue our little skirmish here, so I suggest we drop it. Unless you wish to continue.....


    nah, we can drop it... pointless to continue.


    Okay good then. There's really no point.

    And in response to onetruepheonix, you do bring up a god point. I research further and see what I find.
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  • Avatar of cosmovsgoku

    cosmovsgoku

    [68]Jan 1, 2006
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    wow
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  • Avatar of peterg14

    peterg14

    [69]Jan 8, 2006
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    Once upon a time, Piccolo had a power level of 400. And he blew up the moon with it. Now they have these ridiculos power levels, Freiza, 120,000,000? If a person can blow up the moon with a power level of 400, then at 120,000,000, taking a piss should at least cause a super nova or something!
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  • Avatar of PrinceVegeta2

    PrinceVegeta2

    [70]Jan 8, 2006
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    peterg14 wrote:
    Once upon a time, Piccolo had a power level of 400. And he blew up the moon with it. Now they have these ridiculos power levels, Freiza, 120,000,000? If a person can blow up the moon with a power level of 400, then at 120,000,000, taking a piss should at least cause a super nova or something!


    Actually destroying the Earth requires quite a bit more energy since it has a core. But still Frieza can blow up planets with MINIMAL effort.
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    SSJ1_Goten

    [71]Jan 8, 2006
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    PrinceVegeta2 wrote:
    fluffman4 wrote:
    (growls in frustration)... this is like trying to teach a hick how to date people out of their bloodline.


    I didn't expect you to be able to understand everything with your level of knowlege. So maybe you can atleast post something to back yourself up.... that doesn't contradict itself or ignore something that has been proved wrong. If you can back your posts up like onetruepheonix then by all means post as much as you desire. But if not then refrain from posting because not only are you NOT helping either side in this argument but by your posting it is apparent that you are putting too much stress on your brain.
    Why do you insist on attacking ppl!?
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  • Avatar of PrinceVegeta2

    PrinceVegeta2

    [72]Jan 8, 2006
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    SSJ1_Goten wrote:
    PrinceVegeta2 wrote:
    fluffman4 wrote:
    (growls in frustration)... this is like trying to teach a hick how to date people out of their bloodline.


    I didn't expect you to be able to understand everything with your level of knowlege. So maybe you can atleast post something to back yourself up.... that doesn't contradict itself or ignore something that has been proved wrong. If you can back your posts up like onetruepheonix then by all means post as much as you desire. But if not then refrain from posting because not only are you NOT helping either side in this argument but by your posting it is apparent that you are putting too much stress on your brain.
    Why do you insist on attacking ppl!?


    Dude we settled that long ago. And I wasn't really attacking him.
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  • Avatar of fluffman4

    fluffman4

    [73]Jan 15, 2006
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    PrinceVegeta2 wrote:
    peterg14 wrote:
    Once upon a time, Piccolo had a power level of 400. And he blew up the moon with it. Now they have these ridiculos power levels, Freiza, 120,000,000? If a person can blow up the moon with a power level of 400, then at 120,000,000, taking a piss should at least cause a super nova or something!


    Actually destroying the Earth requires quite a bit more energy since it has a core. But still Frieza can blow up planets with MINIMAL effort.


    except he couldn't blow up namek at half power, with goku not blocking the core shot, guess laws of physics don't apply in this anime. my opinion is that he's 12 mil max, but you know the spirit bomb that was "too dangerous" in the frieza saga that had the potential to destroy namek. They had a spirit bomb that incinerated kid buu, about the strength of a ssj3, and barely left a mark of the planet.
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    deckzone3000

    [74]Jan 15, 2006
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    fluffman4 wrote:
    except he couldn't blow up namek at half power,
    Huh?
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  • Avatar of fluffman4

    fluffman4

    [75]Jan 16, 2006
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    well, completely at first, is what i meant, 5 minutes it took which was elongated out to like 3 hours. and frieza in normal (1st) form blew up vegeta no sweat.
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    deckzone3000

    [76]Jan 16, 2006
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    fluffman4 wrote:
    well, completely at first, is what i meant, 5 minutes it took which was elongated out to like 3 hours. and frieza in normal (1st) form blew up vegeta no sweat.
    What does that tell you? Obviously he could, and he said he held back anyway.
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    PrinceVegeta2

    [77]Jan 18, 2006
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    To everyone and especially onetruepheonix I have full proof that Frieza and SSJ goku's power levels were in the hundred millions.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/bacon967/dbz%20manga/goku7.jpg

    King Kai states that Goku and Frieza are even.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/bacon967/dbz%20manga/goku9.jpg

    Piccolo states that Goku and Frieza aren't giving everything they have yet. And Goku giving everything he has would mean the use of kaioken.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/bacon967/dbz%20manga/goku16.jpg

    King Kai states that Goku is currently using the kaioken and in the manga he NEVER says that Goku was using it prior to that time. Also he was explaining it to Tien, Yamcha, and Chioutzu. The people who ovbiously aren't able to see Goku's kaioken being used around him.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/bacon967/dbz%20manga/goku2.jpg

    Goku hit Frieza with out using kaioken. And as I proved above king kai never stated that he was previously using the techneque. Also since Piccolo said that Goku and Frieza weren't giving it everything they had it means that Goku wasn't using kaioken at that time.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/bacon967/dbz%20manga/goku1.jpg

    Also proof that Goku(w/ out kaioken)>Vegeta durung the Frieza saga.
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    OneTruePhoenix

    [78]Jan 18, 2006
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    PrinceVegeta2 wrote:
    King Kai states that Goku and Frieza are even.


    He says the fight is even, and it was even, since Goku had to be using the Kaioken the whole time, thus making his power near even with Frieza's current power. There is a difference between saying the two fighters are even and saying that the fight is even. Regardless, if he was saying the fighters were even, that just means pretty much the same thing in this case (as Goku with Kaoiken x10 would be around Frieza's power).

    PrinceVegeta2 wrote:
    Piccolo states that Goku and Frieza aren't giving everything they have yet. And Goku giving everything he has would mean the use of kaioken.


    Considering that Goku still had ten more levels of Kaioken left to use, of course he wasn't using his all. Besides, Goku could be not giving his all, yet still be using the Kaioken (in order to keep up).

    PrinceVegeta2 wrote:
    King Kai states that Goku is currently using the kaioken and in the manga he NEVER says that Goku was using it prior to that time. Also he was explaining it to Tien, Yamcha, and Chioutzu. The people who ovbiously aren't able to see Goku's kaioken being used around him.


    He says that Goku's using it currently, which doesn't mean that he just started using it. You realize that you're in no better of a situtation to say that King Kai meant that he just started using the Kaioken x10 than I am to say that he had been using it the whole time, don't you? King Kai didn't say that he was using before that time, but yet he didn't say that he just started using it, now did he?

    The fact that neither Yamcha nor Tien could see Goku using the Kaioken x10 at that moment shows that Goku could have been using it the entire time and they wouldn't notice. King Kai simply pointed out that Goku was already using the Kaioken. That even greatly leans towards me being correct; if Goku only started to use the Kaioken at that moment, then most likely someone would have noticed, other than King Kai. Surely Tien and Yamcha would have been able to get a reading on Goku's strength during the first part of the fight, giving them the knowledge to know that Goku's power increased while fighting Frieza at 50%. Yet, since Goku was actually using the Kaioken the entire time, Tien and Yamcha thought that that was his base power. They overestimated Goku. Since they couldn't tell Goku was using the Kaioken when it was made clear that he was using it, then it means that they wouldn't see it before.

    The obvious theory would be as follows: AT meant for it to be a surprise to all (including the readers) that Goku was outmatched for once, that Goku may have actually met a villain he couldn't defeat. This would mean that the readers wouldn't be able to see Goku's Kaioken, or else where's the surprise? Goku was either using the technique in quick bursts, or was using it the whole time and we couldn't see it.

    As for manga proof in my favor, what about the scene where Goku just got healed and was standing on top of the ship looking around? He was worried that he couldn't win. That's right, he was worried, and his dialoge showed how much doubt he had in being able to beat Frieza. Goku felt Frieza's power, so he knew how unbelievably Frieza was. Goku even thought that Frieza didn't have as much power as he actually did, yet he was still worried. Goku had no idea that Frieza still had a lot of power (about 75% would be my bet) hidden away. Now tell me, why would Goku even have any doubts in his mind about being able to defeat Frieza if their base powers were even? That makes no sense whatsoever, especially considering that Goku had the Kaioken and was able to take it up to as high as 20x. Yet, Goku was worried. Keep in mind that Goku figured that Frieza wasn't holding much back during their fight, so he didn't know, or even thought, that Frieza had that much leftover power. Why would Goku have any doubts if he was equal with Frieza while he still had the Kaioken (up to 20x)? I'm sure you know the manga scene I'm talking about. If not, I could post it tomorrow.

    I remember that you said that the dubline where Frieza said he was only using 1% of his power was correct. Yet, how could that be? If (using your theory) Goku and Frieza were even in base powers, and Frieza increased by 50x (50% power) while Goku increased by 20x (20x Kaioken), how would Goku be able to land all those blows on Frieza and launch an attack that Frieza struggled to hold back (with one hand, that is)? And how would Piccolo be able to kick and damage Frieza pretty badly? Piccolo used the remaining Ki of Gohan and Krillin, as well as himself, (and not even all of it), yet Frieza would have been at least 50x as strong as that amount of Ki (again, using your theory). That kick damaged Frieza pretty badly, so it wouldn't add up if Frieza was really that strong.

    For Goku to be equal to Frieza would mean that he would have received a zenkai of around 33x! Look at all the examples of others' zenkais (particularly Vegeta's on Namek), and you'll see that zenkais usually increase one by 2-4x. The largest zenkai I've seen in the series would be Vegeta's after getting beat up by Recoome, and even that one doesn't compare to the 33x increase that Goku would have received if in fact he did become as strong as Frieza. Maybe Senzu Beans give one a larger zenkai than normal? Anyway, using my theory of Goku being 300,000 while fighting Frieza, Goku would have received a zenkai of what? Yeah that's right, 3-4x. Sounds a lot more average to me, what about you?

    One more thing to add; Frieza's forms were meant to compress his power, right? Yet, if Frieza's true power was 120,000,000 (your theory again), what would be the point in compressing further than his first compressed form (his third form). I mean, going from 120,000,000 to around 2,000,000 would seem like a large enough of a compression to me. Yet, Frieza obviously felt that he should have further compressions. Look at the percentage that Frieza's power compressed in just that first compression, and then look at how much (or how little) his power changed between even further forms. If Frieza didn't want to use much of a percentage of his power, then you would think that his third form would suffice. It would make a LOT more sense if Frieza's power was 12,000,000.

    PrinceVegeta2 wrote:
    Goku hit Frieza with out using kaioken. And as I proved above king kai never stated that he was previously using the techneque. Also since Piccolo said that Goku and Frieza weren't giving it everything they had it means that Goku wasn't using kaioken at that time.


    All that was explained above.

    PrinceVegeta2 wrote:
    Also proof that Goku(w/ out kaioken)>Vegeta durung the Frieza saga.


    This could show a number of things. Two in particular: Vegeta was far weaker than you all give him credit for; or Vegeta was amazed at Goku's display of power and control at swatting away Frieza's ki blasts (by using the Kaioken, which was, as I said, supposed to be a surprise).
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    fluffman4

    [79]Jan 19, 2006
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    wutever, i'm tired of pointless arguing...
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    PrinceVegeta2

    [80]Jan 19, 2006
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    Actually in the manga it shows Goku having the kaioken aura just prior to king kai saying that Goku is already using kaioken. This means that King kai was only refering it to that time and later. And he was only explaining it to Yamcha, Tien and Chioutzu since they aren't able to see Goku's aura. But do you really think that they were able to sense Goku's ki from that far away? I mean King Kai even had to tell them that the spirit bomb was a sucess. Plus it showed Goku with no aura whatsoever deflecting Frieza's attack. He also charged Frieza. Your kaioken "burst" theory is wrong because Goku charged Frieza meaning that he'd have to be able to hold it off for a couple of seconds. And since Vegeta wsn't able to do anything even CLOSE to that it shows that Goku would have to have used the kaioken x10 (going by your theory). And since he'd have to hold it off for a couple of seconds without a doubt he'd show a sign of panting. Yet he was absolutely calm and it looked as if it didn't require even an ounce of chi. Also your theory is a failure since such a thing was never stated...
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