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FOX (ended 2002)

The Official Serenity Discussion Thread Warning: Spoilers ahead

  • Avatar of Browncoat1976

    Browncoat1976

    [101]Oct 25, 2005
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    lemon_accw wrote:
    Domestic: $24,182,000 79.2%
    + Overseas: $6,369,352 20.8%
    = Worldwide: $30,551,352

    Passed $30 million. =)


    Don't studios make the majority of their profit from DVD sales? If so, that's definitely good news.
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  • Avatar of jfhlbuffy

    jfhlbuffy

    [102]Oct 26, 2005
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    IdahoBobby wrote:
    Wash's death was a huge disappointment and a huge mistake. Not the death, but the purpose of it, or lack thereof. Book's death at least advanced the story. It gave Mal inspiration and belief to do what he felt was right. Wash's death accomplished absolutely nothing. He didn't die saving the crew, he didn't reveal some secret, he just dies. Totally bad move and really really really turned me off of the whole story. I loved the TV show. Probably one of the best I've ever seen. I loved the movie. One of the best I've seen, until Wash died. I was just left thinking, "Why? What the heck does that do?!?!?!?!"

    REALLY bad move Joss. Really bad.


    Gee for a moment there I had this crazy notion that people die all the time from accidents or for no real reason. Thank you so much for clearing it up and explaining that every single person who has ever died, died saving somebody else. You're right, what a poor decision.
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  • Avatar of tjaman

    tjaman

    [103]Oct 27, 2005
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    OUCH!

    Welcome to the forum, IdahoBobby.

    I get your being upset. I was upset. We were all upset.

    But if you read the comics, you also read that Wash's heart wasn't really in it anymore. He was hanging on, piloting through no small amount of constant emergencies and problems and such like simply to be with Zoe.

    His death was devastating and compelling in a way that a divorce and desertion would have been ugly and potentially even worse.

    He did die after he'd done some of the best flying we've seen out of him, so he left at the top of his game. He put in the thrilling heroics and he was a big damn' hero.

    And then he died. Of all the characters who were left, he was probably the most expendable in terms of being able to carry on without him (not to suggest for a moment that he lifts right out because his death does leave an aching, sucking wound).

    Wash as storytelling was Mal's lightheartedness. He was the reassurance that everything was always going to work out all right, and he was the constant reminder that life on the border moons was fragile and not to be taken for granted.

    Plus, stake through the heart -- very Joss.

    * redirect * There's no way that, realistically, everyone on the crew was going to make it out of that huge violent battle with the Reavers alive.

    If we had to lose someone, Wash was an excellent candidate.

    IMO.
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  • Avatar of AuntArlene

    AuntArlene

    [104]Oct 27, 2005
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    I can rarely see a movie anymore without being able to guess the ending. It's more the simplistic plot of most movies than my massive ego, er, brain.

    I rarely go to see movies at the theater anymore. I'd rather wait for the cheaper DVD so I won't feel as disappointed.

    I did go see Serenity at the theater. No small testament to Joss that I went to a theater by myself to see it. I knew my hopes were too high and it couldn't possibly meet my expectations. I was still happy with it, until Wash was killed.

    My shock didn't wear off until later that night. I walked out of the theater in a daze. It's safe to say that I wasn't too happy with Joss. I know how his stuff is usually better after repeated viewings so I was still saving my final verdict for the DVD.

    Now it's a few weeks later and I've been able to think about Wash's death more clearly. I can accept it because it did something that few movies do to me anymore. I had absolutely no clue how the movie was going to end. I had several guesses, but they were all off the mark.

    Sure I was sad about Wash. I knew he couldn't be a main player in any future movies. He also couldn't be in Firefly if it ever returned to the small screen. For those reasons I still have regrets. My awe over Joss' ability to completely surprise me pales in comparison though.
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  • Avatar of lemon_accw

    lemon_accw

    [105]Oct 27, 2005
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    DVD/Video: December 20, 2005

    hehe^__^ One of the best Christmas gifts ever!

    Domestic: $24,434,740 73.0%
    + Overseas: $9,017,070 27.0%
    = Worldwide: $33,451,810

    Has not made much advancement. But as long as it's closer to $39 million.

    Serenity - DVD additional material

    Directors DVD Audio Commentary
    Outtakes - 6 minutes 2sec (Rated 15)
    Joss Whedon Introduction - 3 minutes 52sec (Rated U)
    "What's in a Firefly" - 6 minutes 30sec (Rated 12)
    "Re-lighting the Firefly" - 9 minutes 38 sec (Rated 12)
    "Future History" - 4 minutes 27sec (Rated PG)
    "We'll Have a Fruity Oaty Good Time" - 1 minute 35sec (Rated PG)
    Deleted and Extended Scenes:
    - 13 minutes 25sec (Rated 12)

    I mainly just want to listen to the commentary. haha surprising because I usually don't care but for Serenity I need it.
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  • Avatar of mannamedjayne

    mannamedjayne

    [106]Oct 28, 2005
    • member since: 10/13/05
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    I went to see the movie, finally by travelling to another city.
    At the end, River is facing the Alliance troops; I wondered what would happen if they tried to shoot her? No power in the 'verse...
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  • Avatar of Spoonagain

    Spoonagain

    [107]Oct 28, 2005
    • member since: 06/07/05
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    The answer to this question is probably really obvious, but is that nerve-pinch thing that The Operative uses to paralyze others, is actually possible, or complete fantasy?
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  • Avatar of buffyrules

    buffyrules

    [108]Oct 29, 2005
    • member since: 07/03/05
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    i heard that joss said he will make a triology
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  • Avatar of mikecanada

    mikecanada

    [109]Oct 30, 2005
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    buffyrules wrote:
    i heard that joss said he will make a triology


    the actors are all under contract to do 3 movies
    but that might not happen
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  • Avatar of dandyrur

    dandyrur

    [110]Nov 2, 2005
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    This movie is beautiful!
    I spent the whole movie on the edge of my seat, I even forgot to blink a few times.
    I just really hate that I live in a stinking country that is showing this movie only once in the theater... and then they whine about falling attendancies to the theaters...
    Can't wait to see it again!
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  • Avatar of Spoonagain

    Spoonagain

    [111]Nov 5, 2005
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    dandyrur wrote:
    This movie is beautiful!
    I spent the whole movie on the edge of my seat, I even forgot to blink a few times.
    I just really hate that I live in a stinking country that is showing this movie only once in the theater... and then they whine about falling attendancies to the theaters...
    Can't wait to see it again!


    I like that word "beautiful". I think this word sums up what I felt while watching the movie. Beautiful effects, story, acting, etc.
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  • Avatar of angelandspike

    angelandspike

    [112]Nov 5, 2005
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    The movie isn't in town anymore so I'll have to wait for the DVD to see it again.

    I agree about the word beautiful. It describes the show and the film very well.
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  • Avatar of icanfix

    icanfix

    [113]Dec 8, 2005
    • member since: 07/23/05
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    hi
    just saw serenity for the first time, absolutly loved firefly but serenity was a bit of a disapointment. they didnt relly make any new doors open but instead closed a few windows. i assume i can just talk without writing spoiler alerts.
    i was very dissapointed that shepard dies and also i think it was a mistake to kill mr universe. wouldnt it have blown you away if theyd made him more of a famous person in society saying he is sort of a specialist genius who can hold his own and then after his robot gives the message to help mal and that other guy, she stands up and brushes her self off and we realise she is was real and the brains behind the operation and fooled everyone, kind of skill we saw in the usual suspect . hell in the sequal they could have made her a key figure against the aliance by having some dirt on them.
    also the reevers were a bit of a disapointment. i would like to have scene a bit more about them instead of just how they came to be. alot of people just think so what they are physco canibals. you really have to watch the tv show so then the film is icing on the cake, no one likes to eat pure icing its just not worth it.
    also a bit dissapointed river is now the pilot because she becomes less special as part of the crew.
    i think joss definatly made the film for the fans but it alienated new audiances. it is very hard to make a film after such an amazing tv show, e.g stargate film is nothing comapared to sg-1 (has no depth)\

    so as a new thread the top things you would have liked to see or find out and the top things they shouldnt have shown

    her are mine.

    what i wanted out of the film to make it hold its own against the tv show and give the new audiance the feeling of importance that they arre seeing a hole new side to the adventure

    1. some important people were infected and are reevers and the alliance has them under closer watch waiting to start their plan rather than sieng them just as an annoyance.( maybe some of the reevers go in and out of physco mode to advance their power/status exetera. we see somehow the reevers arnt just random (not talking about how they werecreated)

    2. more depth about the alliance as in a few key figures and how there government works and what there situation is

    3. shepard has and always had a mission/something to do or say involving mal, maybe he was a scientist on the project in maranda.

    4.river having some depth to her. we know there is something up with her. personally i would have loved to see this have happend in the research lab. ---- Her brain was so advanced and clever that they had her hooked up to machines so scientists and military exetera could connect to her brain to help them think with her brain potential making them more clever while they were conected so they could think up stratergy and genius plans.now they are running out of ideas and we also see how advanced some of the plans were

    5. mal having more of an influenece on the galaxy. him needing help and being able to call someone really powerful like someone in goverment, alliance or crimelord to ask for help because he knew them during the wars.

    6. also mal calling up a team of (now advanced) merceneries/comandos/rich mans private security force to ask for help during something, they went specialist after the war and asked mal to join but he said no.they are really good at what they do. they are very elite

    7 overall i would like to have seen the crew of firefly portraeid as an underdog who actuall has a lot of potential and conections when it counts, while still keeping their own little missfit group as cowboys out for a quick buck

    8. i would like to see a speech off someone about how people as clever as river with the alliance help are going to help society get out of the problems they are in. and then refer to some type of recent advancements in society caused by (number four - the lab scene with brain) maybe a defense against reevers being installed on some colllonies that mal carnt argue against. then we see mal saying if river is so special and ha all these ideas that he and her brother and the firfly crew would help her with them without the alliance. then as a joke he says "and maybe make a buck along the way" this could be one of the final confrontation scenes opening new plot lines

    i could go on but her are the things i thought wernt needed and shouldnt have been shown because they told to much limiting potential

    1. mal and jane not showing the doctor and sister enough respect,it shows he doesnt appreciate how special river is and how somehow she is important and such a benifit to them, hell the alliance are pulling alot of strings to get her. they copied elements of this relation ship from the fith element. he is a great doctor. i would like to have seen his and his famous parents influence something somehow.

    2. didnt need to give so much about the reevers away without giving them foundations. there was nothing unique about them other than what they were, they hadnt built them up enough to give them such a role as the enemy

    3. i dint need to see some rogue assin as the hunter, i would rather have had one of rivers special brain friends turned into a powerful generals assistant who can think on his feet to counteract rivers statergy.it only works if he is not seen as a counterpart to river but more like river is one type of x-men and he is a different type (not made too scifiey though but down to earth). i would not have liked to see that character physically fight with river or turn good at the end or being tested against river. basically stay away from resident evil appocolipse, he would just be a thinker who puts his powerful bosses to shame subtuly but knows his place without being a slave or drone

    4. shouldnt have showed that bar fight without real purpose. it showed rivers skill without any appreciation or realisation.

    5. we didnt need to see her husband die without any real purpose. the least they could have done is her having her be able to have some sort of revenge, or he could have atleast turned into a reever on the planet and thec rew having to lock him up. then in some dark room someone could say, "they have a reever now" and someone really smart who knows what he is talking about could have said " river was never exposed to any of the reever research" and then the other military man say ""god help us all we need is a reever and a reeder on the same ship" and then the clever person saying "she doesnt know" then we show river in her lara lar land saying " "i know"

    we know this styory would lead somewhere.

    anyway thats just a few but it does change the film completely to add some of this stuff. so also lets see some plots of where the film could go.

    joss whedon is an artist and if he gets a good idea of a new film it could easily help fuel another one. the beuty is that everyone who loves the film would by the dvd and everyone who buys the boxset could get the dvd and anything could happenm
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  • Avatar of grailwolf

    grailwolf

    [114]Dec 20, 2005
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    icanfix, I think that some of your ideas (if I'm reading them right) are not bad at all. Just... not for this film.

    I love me a good knock-down, drag-out, big budget sci-fi spectacular. However, this was not a... one of those. This film was about a group of people who are caught up in an epic story, but really don't want to be. I think that bringing in the super high-tech villains, the contacts in high places, the big battles, would have taken us out of the story that this crew is all about.

    Also, I have to disagree about some of the things you would rather not have seen. First of all, Wash's death (while it was truly awful in so many respects) was a brilliant piece of film-making. AuntArlene's post above expresses this better than I ever could (what would we do without you, Auntie?). As for the barfight, I think this was absolutely essential. It makes total sense as a tactic for the Alliance to find River (if you have a remote control weapon and it goes missing, set it off and look for the boom) and it finally let Mal and the crew see what River really is beneath her psychoses. Further, it started the whole story running and did it with a bang.

    Anyway, I think our differences in opinion come largely from the fact that you were expecting a big-budget sci-fi film and I was hoping for just... more of the series I guess. I'm glad that I got what I wanted and sorry that you didn't. But I would suggest going back and watching it again to try to appreciate the film for what it is rather than what you think it might have been. Also, if you pick up the Visual Guide you might learn a lot about why the film is the way it is and the intent of the creator and crew.
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  • Avatar of icanfix

    icanfix

    [115]Dec 21, 2005
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    i definatly agree with you there about keeping the mythos of the series going rather than a big budget sci-fi film.

    i was coming from a movie point of view. if it had been a big budget sci-fi film atleast we would have better chances of getting a sequal.

    it doesnt have to loose its taste or touch to throw a bit of money and action at it, i think they did that with the ship battles.

    all im saying is they had to really blow people away who had no knowledge of the series.

    the film did pretty bad at the box-office so it is justified that new audiences didnt click.

    all im saying is..to all those stargate fans out there, does the movie compare to the series at all. no asgards, no ancients, no real goulds, and none of that other stuff.

    and serenity was after firefly so really had to prove it had a lot going for it rather than just a good old cowboy story. we love the characters and what they are about but you really carnt relate to them if you havnt seen the tv episodes so you need a jaw dropping storyline.
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  • Avatar of Ishbar

    Ishbar

    [116]Dec 22, 2005
    • member since: 12/23/05
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    icanfix wrote:
    ...

    i could go on but her are the things i thought wernt needed and shouldnt have been shown because they told to much limiting potential

    1. mal and jane not showing the doctor and sister enough respect,it shows he doesnt appreciate how special river is and how somehow she is important and such a benifit to them, hell the alliance are pulling alot of strings to get her. they copied elements of this relation ship from the fith element. he is a great doctor. i would like to have seen his and his famous parents influence something somehow.

    2. didnt need to give so much about the reevers away without giving them foundations. there was nothing unique about them other than what they were, they hadnt built them up enough to give them such a role as the enemy

    3. i dint need to see some rogue assin as the hunter, i would rather have had one of rivers special brain friends turned into a powerful generals assistant who can think on his feet to counteract rivers statergy.it only works if he is not seen as a counterpart to river but more like river is one type of x-men and he is a different type (not made too scifiey though but down to earth). i would not have liked to see that character physically fight with river or turn good at the end or being tested against river. basically stay away from resident evil appocolipse, he would just be a thinker who puts his powerful bosses to shame subtuly but knows his place without being a slave or drone

    4. shouldnt have showed that bar fight without real purpose. it showed rivers skill without any appreciation or realisation.

    5. we didnt need to see her husband die without any real purpose. the least they could have done is her having her be able to have some sort of revenge, or he could have atleast turned into a reever on the planet and thec rew having to lock him up. then in some dark room someone could say, "they have a reever now" and someone really smart who knows what he is talking about could have said " river was never exposed to any of the reever research" and then the other military man say ""god help us all we need is a reever and a reeder on the same ship" and then the clever person saying "she doesnt know" then we show river in her lara lar land saying " "i know"

    we know this styory would lead somewhere.

    anyway thats just a few but it does change the film completely to add some of this stuff. so also lets see some plots of where the film could go.

    joss whedon is an artist and if he gets a good idea of a new film it could easily help fuel another one. the beuty is that everyone who loves the film would by the dvd and everyone who buys the boxset could get the dvd and anything could happenm



    I don't agree with any of these suggestions.

    1. It's not that he doesn't show them enough respect, it's that he try’s not to grow too attached because he knows how that can affect his judgment in situations. Not to mention he continuously has conflicts with himself over his own ethics, he's not heartless, and he just tries’s to keep to him, and not take things too seriously.

    2. The Reevers had excellent foundation, at first they were presumed to be "Men who'd seen the end of the Galaxy, vast nothingness, then went mad" When the actuality of it was a whole In-depth government experiment gone wrong/turned conspiracy. These creatures were the result of a horrific tragedy, long kept secret. In no way was "Too much" given about them.

    3. The assassin isn’t”Rouge"; he works for the Alliance because that is what he was paid to do. If they had some corny "Brain scientist/turned general" It would end up like one of those two bit Sci-fi Original Productions. The Assassin was an excellent obstacle for Mal, and a devious villain who found redemption in the end, or at least empathy for human life. The only thing that exceeds his skills is his sense of Honor.

    4. What are you talking about? Without the bar scene, a lot less would still remain unknown about her true power. Not to mention that the only time she displays her ability’s in such a manner is at the end! So how can you say the bar scene isn't necessary? It wouldn't make any sense that she being shy, and kept to herself. Then all of a sudden out of nowhere kicking reever ass! If it weren't for that little episode between the Viewing screens, her powers may not have ever been triggered, thus destroying much of the plot. They would of never found the dead planet, uncovered the Reevers origin, and been able to live the final battle.

    5. First off: the husband’s death was an emotionally stirring part of the climax. It inspired the crew in a way, showing that they have to fight, they can't give up, there isn't any turning back, but also; they aren’t invincible. Secondly: What the hell do you mean, "Turned into a Reever", If he were turned into a Reever (Which is impossible to begin with, considering that they weren't exposed to the chemical after math on the planet.) Mal would of shot him, or any of the other crew, they wouldn't Lock him in a cage, that’s stupidity! Thirdly: What the hell are you talking about with that little bit between the "Clever" guy and River, you need to elaborate on your thoughts, and think over your ideas.

    Firefly was an excellent and exceptionally well directed series, and Serenity a wonderful tie-in to the entire Sci-Fi epic.
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  • Avatar of icanfix

    icanfix

    [117]Dec 23, 2005
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    first, they were on the planet so walsh could easily be expose to reever chemicals, it may take awhile for walsh to be fully transformed, yes mal could go to shoot him but zoe could say lock him up instead

    also the bit with river and the clever guy (someone who underwent the same thing as river did but turned out more stable) we carnt be sure the true nature of the chemicals even though given an explenation of their use. a scene where the clever guy saying omething about a reever and a reeder on the same ship, i.e bad combination
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  • Avatar of icanfix

    icanfix

    [118]Dec 23, 2005
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    maybe the chemicals that turns them to reevers is like a way to pump someone full of information like military secrets and such , e.g johny numonic, they carnt take it so overload and becomea reevers,no worries because there to messed up to say what they know, a reeder can read his brain to find out what he knows,
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  • Avatar of Ishbar

    Ishbar

    [119]Dec 24, 2005
    • member since: 12/23/05
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    Those ideas are horrible... Secondly, the chemicals were intended to be part of the Terraforming of the planet, so whatever byproducts released to the previous inhabitants only were exposed to it then, not anyone else. But lets say Wash DID get infected, then EVERYONE else would of too, so there wouldn't be anyone to "Lock" him up, and Zoë would of known it wasn't him if he became a Reever so he'd be dead either way.
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  • Avatar of Charisma69

    Charisma69

    [120]Dec 25, 2005
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    icanfix wrote:
    first, they were on the planet so walsh could easily be expose to reever chemicals, it may take awhile for walsh to be fully transformed, yes mal could go to shoot him but zoe could say lock him up instead

    also the bit with river and the clever guy (someone who underwent the same thing as river did but turned out more stable) we carnt be sure the true nature of the chemicals even though given an explenation of their use. a scene where the clever guy saying omething about a reever and a reeder on the same ship, i.e bad combination


    Wash, not "Walsh", wasn't anymore exposed to the chemicals than anyone else on Serenity so why would he turn into a reaver when nobody else did?

    That just doesn't make sense. If you're saying he would do that after he died then you're just confusing the reavers with zombies. The reavers aren't dead, they've just had their aggression turned up to the point of madness by the chemicals that were supposed to make people docile.

    It wouldn't make sense to have "the clever guy" as you call him in the film. There was no mention on the show of the Alliance having as much luck with anyone else. They wanted River back for a reason. Besides, this plots been done a thousand times. Why would Joss want to go there?

    River also doesn't have to be on the same ship to "read" a reaver. She knew they were coming before they even completely landed during the heist at the beginning of the movie. Why would she need to "read" a reaver anyway?

    Personally I like the movie the way Joss made it and I wouldn't change a thing about it. The movie is a brilliant piece of art that just gets better everytime I see it.

    The movie you're suggesting would just be a mindless piece of garbage. The type of movie we've seen over and over again. Who needs more of the same old stuff?
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