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ABC (ended 2010)

Official Discussion Thread: Queen Sacrifice (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [1]Apr 4, 2010
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    Please direct all general and specific discussion of the 4/8/10 episode "Queen Sacrifice" to this thread.

    Enjoy!
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  • Avatar of UltraTraveler

    UltraTraveler

    [2]Apr 8, 2010
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    What a mole. hopefully, Simon will do something better... maybe heroic...
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    SVU_number_1fan

    [3]Apr 9, 2010
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    4sure wat a frankin mole 4sure omg!!!
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    antdude

    [4]Apr 9, 2010
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    Slow episode until the ending.
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  • Avatar of CthulhuSaves

    CthulhuSaves

    [5]Apr 9, 2010
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    My first reaction to the ending was, "Uhmmm, what?!" It doesn't make any sense.

    I don't even like that character, and would be glad to have her be a bad guy and get killed or otherwise leave the show, but it simply doesn't fit the character's personality, or the things we've seen. It's easy to have a character act a certain way deceptively around others, but they've shown us her private moments, when other people weren't around, or when she's around non-important characters. Not to mention her getting critically shot by what would amount to her own people. That wasn't some staged shootout to throw off suspicion. That hit was serious, and she survived it by a hair's breadth.

    No, to be completely honest, it really does feel like this was decided at the last moment, to boost ratings. (I got the exact same feeling when something similar happened recently on 24.)

    Heh, and for the record, when she made those excuses while under interrogation regarding her absences, and whipped out the info about the possible mole, I immediately thought, "Gee, that was convenient. She just jumped to the top of my list." I know, I said it didn't make sense for her to be the mole, but that's based on prior eps. In this ep she came across as suspicious from that point on. Of course, I fell for the act *after* that, and forgot all about my suspicions until she spilled the beans in the garage. Sheesh, I'm such a sucker.
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  • Avatar of alexender00

    alexender00

    [6]Apr 9, 2010
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    CthulhuSaves wrote:
    My first reaction to the ending was, "Uhmmm, what?!" It doesn't make any sense.

    I don't even like that character, and would be glad to have her be a bad guy and get killed or otherwise leave the show, but it simply doesn't fit the character's personality, or the things we've seen. It's easy to have a character act a certain way deceptively around others, but they've shown us her private moments, when other people weren't around, or when she's around non-important characters. Not to mention her getting critically shot by what would amount to her own people. That wasn't some staged shootout to throw off suspicion. That hit was serious, and she survived it by a hair's breadth.

    No, to be completely honest, it really does feel like this was decided at the last moment, to boost ratings. (I got the exact same feeling when something similar happened recently on 24.)

    Heh, and for the record, when she made those excuses while under interrogation regarding her absences, and whipped out the info about the possible mole, I immediately thought, "Gee, that was convenient. She just jumped to the top of my list." I know, I said it didn't make sense for her to be the mole, but that's based on prior eps. In this ep she came across as suspicious from that point on. Of course, I fell for the act *after* that, and forgot all about my suspicions until she spilled the beans in the garage. Sheesh, I'm such a sucker.


    Personally I came to the same conclusions, it's one thing to keep some stuff hidden and private then reveal that person (important on not is a mole), it's quite another to show us something completely private that tell us she was hurt emotionally (It being very difficult for her to get pregnant because of the hit) and then turn around telling us it's all fake . So either her Flash forward was fake (like Simon) or she a fake mole because Mark/whoever is guessing (rightly so) that Simon can't be trusted.

    It's either a disgusting plot device to "keep us on our toes" or part of a grander plan where she really one of the good guys. If it's the former I'll give up on that show at the end of the season, if it's the latter I'll forgive it.

    I just can't abide show that don't follow logic... even in a fantastic show you have to follow the logic of the rules established. We always knew there was something wrong with Simon's Flash Forward but there was no discernible hint about her.
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  • Avatar of kbelliveau

    kbelliveau

    [7]Apr 9, 2010
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    Did anyone stop to think the show painted Janis that way simply because they didnt want to give us any warning at all she is bad. Shows do that all the time, perhaps like previously mentioned her FF was a lie or she truly believed it was going to happen and she was looking to switch sides because she figured she would be safer that way. Personally I liked the surprise ending and it would be nonsense to simply reveal it as a joke next week or the week after. Keep it the way it is, because this way despite the previous episodes and what they told us we are heading for a showdown between Janis and her colleagues, and now that Simon knows we will get to see what side he is truly on. Simon explained it in the end of the episode there was a double mole, so Janis had to appear real so the private moments with her and Demetri last week could have been real, she has been around this people a hell of a long time and know they arent bad people. I still like where they set themselves up to go, and it will be fun to watch it play out, because we all that come May it is the end of the this series anyway.

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    haldrey

    [8]Apr 9, 2010
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    Great episode, a little bit slow at the beginning bit what an ending. This show is really taking off.
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  • Avatar of Kromdale

    Kromdale

    [9]Apr 9, 2010
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    After what they(evil doers) did to simon, I can see them mocking a staged shootout with Janis. Though finding hitmen who would a) not kill Janis and b)die to make it real seems a bit much. I figured Marshall was the other mole since you had Marks daughter seeing him report that Mark was dead right at the same moment he is being attacked, indicating maybe prior knowledge or planning. This assumes the FBI office was empty and no one would know Mark was being attacked/dead to call Marshall.


    As far as the Bryce/Keiko story. Does seem like both Characters are heading to different paths because of their flashfowards. You would think they could use the Mosiac site to find each other since they are failing to badly currently.


    Why Demetri is so worried about his flashfoward is beyond me. Everyone diesand they dont know whenbut he knows when and how he is killed. If you cant use that to "prevent or delay" your own death I dont know what else will. If the flashfowards are set in stone (ie Fate) then hes doomed and live the rest of the time knowing you at least get to live out the life you got remaining.

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    KingofIPirates

    [10]Apr 9, 2010
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    Pretty good episode overall, was fairly intriguing and entertaining for the most part; the ending was also quite surprising even riveting that Janice was also a double agent.
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  • Avatar of D-LinkUK

    D-LinkUK

    [11]Apr 10, 2010
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    Personally ( and like some others have said ), i think Janis being a mole is a bluff for Simon's benefit, it just would'nt make sense otherwise for her to turn just like that. Mark knows there's something not right with Simon and has instigated the whole Janis is amole story to get info from him.

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  • Avatar of Urnfs

    Urnfs

    [12]Apr 10, 2010
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    Oh,no, Janis has been Nina'd!!
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  • Avatar of VConn

    VConn

    [13]Apr 10, 2010
    • member since: 08/24/08
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    CthulhuSaves wrote:
    My first reaction to the ending was, "Uhmmm, what?!" It doesn't make any sense. I don't even like that character, and would be glad to have her be a bad guy and get killed or otherwise leave the show, but it simply doesn't fit the character's personality, or the things we've seen. It's easy to have a character act a certain way deceptively around others, but they've shown us her private moments, when other people weren't around, or when she's around non-important characters. Not to mention her getting critically shot by what would amount to her own people. That wasn't some staged shootout to throw off suspicion. That hit was serious, and she survived it by a hair's breadth. No, to be completely honest, it really does feel like this was decided at the last moment, to boost ratings. (I got the exact same feeling when something similar happened recently on 24.) Heh, and for the record, when she made those excuses while under interrogation regarding her absences, and whipped out the info about the possible mole, I immediately thought, "Gee, that was convenient. She just jumped to the top of my list." I know, I said it didn't make sense for her to be the mole, but that's based on prior eps. In this ep she came across as suspicious from that point on. Of course, I fell for the act *after* that, and forgot all about my suspicions until she spilled the beans in the garage. Sheesh, I'm such a sucker.



    It may have been a cheap ploy as you suggest to boost ratings or whatever but it probably worked it was a great ending to a fantastic episode.



    I didn't see her treachery coming until she mentioned Simon's message being received I just put her info on Mole #2 down to good FBI Work Isn't that what Agents are meant to do anyway? But after reading last week that the actress had already announced she was leaving the show at season's end regardless of whether or not it was renewed I should have known, At least Mark and Co. will discover her deception by the end of the season.



    This show just keeps getting better and I hope ABC don't cancel it.

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  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [14]Apr 10, 2010
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    Pretty terrible episode overall, and that's coming from somebody who has actually been enjoying the series overall, especially starting with the Bryce/Keiko episode in the first half of the season. OK, let's start with the main story in this episode, the search for the mole. For most of this episode, I thought that it was very safe to assume that the one guy working with Mark to find the mole was the only mole on the show. So with that information in my mind, all the tension that could have come with the story just vanished. Then it's revealed that one person we don't really know well is the mole (meh), and eventually find out that Janis is the mole. At first I was happy enough about this reveal, but then I started to actually think of it, and came up with the same conclusion that a couple other people on here came up with: It makes absolutely no sense at all! On top of that, now we have 3 moles working together, that we know of? How long until we find out that Mark is going up against 100 moles, and the only one on his side is Demitri, who ends up dead? I'm hoping that, as was brought up here earlier, it's part of a plan to get closer to finding out Simon's true nature, and Janis is lying. Otherwise, this could easily be the point where I lose interest in the show.


    Now, let's look at the side-stories. First Bryce and Keiko. OK, I'll just say that this is probably the best part of the episode for me. Not so much because it was great, but because I didn't really care for the other aspects of the episode. On one hand, there's the Bryce part of the story. I was expecting Bryce to start to be interested in Nicole, and I didn't really mind that direction too much. But really,they just happen to go to the same restaurant that Keiko and her employer went, Keiko and her employer just happen to be sitting right in front of the door so that she can see them kissing? OK... And as for the Keiko side of the story, I didn't really care that much about it. OK, she came here looking for Bryce. That's fine. But once she wandered into the place with all those cars, that's where I started to completely lose interest in her story. Nothing really interesting happened with her at all. The most "interesting" thing was her being arrested, but even that was pretty "meh."


    And then there's the whole "stalker" story with Olivia and Charlie. Completely anti-climactic, and just there to build a sense of urgency over something that, in the end, was a complete waste of time. Despite what I said before, about not wanting more moles in the FBI, I'm willing to make one exception for the "stalker" guy, and having something more come out of this story. Otherwise, what was the point? Also, why wouldn't Mark tell Olivia about sending that guy to look after her? Is he that stupid to think that she wouldn't notice that creepy guy stalking her and Charlie? What did he think would happen?


    Meh. There are two possible ways that I can change my mind about this episode in the future: finding out that Janis is not really a mole, and finding out that the one guy stalking Olivia and Charlie was really working with that one group, and something bigger is planned with that story. If either of those things happen, I'll happily look back on this episode as a better one than I think it is now. But for now... I just hope the season makes up for this bad episode. It may not be as annoying as "Scary Monsters and Super Creeps," But I'd actually say that this was the worst episode of the season so far.

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  • Avatar of CharlesTheBold

    CharlesTheBold

    [15]Apr 10, 2010
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    D-LinkUK wrote:


    Personally ( and like some others have said ), i think Janis being a mole is a bluff for Simon's benefit, it just would'nt make sense otherwise for her to turn just like that. Mark knows there's something not right with Simon and has instigated the whole Janis is amole story to get info from him.



    I agree.We know too much about Janis for her to suddenly be "revealed" as evil. She's humoring Simon in hopes that he'll tell her more secrets. After all, she and Simon have been trying to outmaneuvre each other for weeks.


    Vogel is really the one with the suspicious background. When the warlord goes bersek, Vogel shoots his down while everybody else is still offguard. Because he wanted to shoot him anyway? And why would he tell X that "Mark Benford is dead" before the family is informed, unless they wanted him dead?

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    KingofIPirates

    [16]Apr 10, 2010
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    CharlesTheBold wrote:
    Vogel is really the one with the suspicious background. When the warlord goes bersek, Vogel shoots his down while everybody else is still offguard. Because he wanted to shoot him anyway? And why would he tell X that "Mark Benford is dead" before the family is informed, unless they wanted him dead?
    While suspicious he had reason to as the berserk man IIRC still happened to have a gun and based on prior experience had little issue killing their comrades. Probably the news is 'broadcast' within agencies First as a means to immediately come up with contingency plans or reassignments on the operations/investigation that agent happened to be working on. Thus he was probably telling Agent X so that another Agent could be reassigned to immediately take over the Mosaic investigation given the fact it was a pressing issue before he officially informed the Family.
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    AymanAlturki

    [17]Apr 11, 2010
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    i only hate Marshall Vogel i hope they can kill him off some how

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    ma_liky

    [18]Apr 12, 2010
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    This ep was stunning. I personally thought that there was no mole, because there was no one we knew that could have been one. And when they started to search for one, I immediately started to think that it had to be someone we now and trust. When Janis was in the room with Mark and Vogel she immediately started pointing finger on to someone else, get them off her, cause one had to be found. I told my husband that it was her but he said noooooo. And when Janis kicked her a$$ in that fountain I said I still think it is her, and he said nooooooooooooo. I said tell me Who is that girl Marcy, what do we know about her, nothing, she is completely useless character. Maybe she did appear in one of the episodes but I dont remember her, and If she was the only mole it would have been better if there were no mole at all, it would have been just stupid. And about Janis, I think that she is the perfect mole. When you think about it closely from the beginning, she was the one to suggest the making of the Mosaic site, she was the one to have found suspect zero, and I think she got shot cause she let them get close to D.G. at the start. He had to make sure she gets the message. And I think that her flashforward is a fake, cause who gets a ultrasound at 10pm. Her flashforward would be realistic if she was in other time zone or if she had some problems with her pregnancy and was in the hospital, but as I remember it was all fine. So that did bother me since the beginning but I pushed it aside thinking about different things.
    This was nicely played out, cant wait for next.
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    SamuelTee

    [19]Apr 12, 2010
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    Hm, as some of you already mentioned. That ending seems a bit too hasty and loose. And, what reason should Simon have NOT to tell the others?


    As for that Olivia-and-her-daughter-get-stalked thing: Olivia told Marc on his mailbox but he never replied to that. Seems like a non-finished plot.


    I hope next episode will solve some of these mysteries. If not, I'm just disappointed.

    Edited on 04/12/2010 7:06am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of ma_liky

    ma_liky

    [20]Apr 12, 2010
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    SamuelTee wrote:

    Hm, as some of you already mentioned. That ending seems a bit too hasty and loose. And, what reason should Simon have NOT to tell the others?


    As for that Olivia-and-her-daughter-get-stalked thing: Olivia told Marc on his mailbox but he never replied to that. Seems like a non-finished plot.


    I hope next episode will solve some of these mysteries. If not, I'm just disappointed.


    Everything is putting Simeon off on telling the others, he wont tell Mark, he is way to interested in what comes next of it. It is his project, his dream put to life, he has to see it through, but he will not be manipulated or blackmailed into it, he will do it on his own conditions, he is egomaniac. The whole deal with the "uncle" is just the test for Simon, witch he passed with flying colours, he is happy to do it, happy to see his project in real time, it was all in his imagination and now it is real and he is not afraid to see it all the way to the end. Simeon is, if you want to call it bad/evil side of the story, he had always been there, he just didnt know who else is on there and now that he knows some of them he is interested and happy to be there. his character is so well done, hats down to the writers.
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