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FOX (ended 2013)

Observer invasion and time paradox

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  • Avatar of Lccf

    Lccf

    [1]Oct 30, 2012
    • member since: 11/18/09
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 136

    I was asking myself a question I'm sure has crossed everyone's minds : how can humans from the future slaughter and enslave their ancestors without jeopardizing their own existence ?


    The question arose also in "Doctor Who" : in "The last of the time lords", the machines who killed 10% of mankind and enslaved the rest are revealed to be humans from the deep future. They can kill their ancestors because the Master has hijacked the Tardis and turned it into a "paradox machine" - making a time paradox sustainable for the space-time continuum. We can't expect such an explanation for Fringe, so what ?


    We know the Baldies can move between dimensions and timelines. So the obvious answer would be : they are from A future, but not from the blue/amber universe future. The people they killed were not their direct ancestors.


    So where are they from ? Maybe their home reality is the Red universe.So what if ... the only way to get rid of them is ... to destroy or radically alter the Red universe, to make sure the Observers never come to existence ? We've already seen the team using ZFT's methods ( and toxin ), but would they go that far ?

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  • Avatar of Rob_85

    Rob_85

    [2]Nov 3, 2012
    • member since: 09/24/12
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 2

    So far the Observers have gone to fairly grate lengths to maintain their own evolutionary history. What if this is just another part of that? I mean no where have they said the Observers want to wipe humanity from the face of the planet. They seem perfectly happy to share with us regular humans as long as we stay in line. Perhaps this is the ultimate evolution of their plan to make sure they evolve properly?


    Especially in the light of "An Origin Story"'s cliffhanger, not giving anything away, but it IS called "An ORIGIN Story"...

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  • Avatar of Erebus69

    Erebus69

    [3]Nov 17, 2012
    • member since: 11/10/06
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 2

    No matter how you look at it, its always a paradox.


    If you are insinuating that Peter is the first observer, thats a paradox by it self, he only has the tech because he took it from the observers. So if Peter was the first observer how could he ever have been the first, if he only got the tech from Future observers!


    If you would have been born without arms, and your future self had been born with two and wants to give you one, thats impossible, how can your future self have been born with two born arms if your present self was born with no arms! Thats a paradox!



    Peter can never be the first observer because he got the tech from future observers!

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  • Avatar of aluciddreamer03

    aluciddreamer03

    [4]Nov 17, 2012
    • member since: 11/02/12
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 1

    Rob_85 wrote:


    So far the Observers have gone to fairly grate lengths to maintain their own evolutionary history. What if this is just another part of that? I mean no where have they said the Observers want to wipe humanity from the face of the planet. They seem perfectly happy to share with us regular humans as long as we stay in line. Perhaps this is the ultimate evolution of their plan to make sure they evolve properly?


    Especially in the light of "An Origin Story"'s cliffhanger, not giving anything away, but it IS called "An ORIGIN Story"...
    Actually, with the development of the air degradation equipment, the Observers are threatening human life. Whether intentionally or not.

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  • Avatar of Rob_85

    Rob_85

    [5]Dec 4, 2012
    • member since: 09/24/12
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 2

    Erebus69 wrote:


    No matter how you look at it, its always a paradox.


    If you are insinuating that Peter is the first observer, thats a paradox by it self, he only has the tech because he took it from the observers. So if Peter was the first observer how could he ever have been the first, if he only got the tech from Future observers!


    If you would have been born without arms, and your future self had been born with two and wants to give you one, thats impossible, how can your future self have been born with two born arms if your present self was born with no arms! Thats a paradox!



    Peter can never be the first observer because he got the tech from future observers!



    I'm not necessarily saying its not a paradox, I'm just saying that perhaps the observers are using a form of the Predestination Paradox to insure their creation, in much the same way Syknet is perported to have done in Terminator 2/3 (other examples include Continuum and the Andromida episode "Angle Dark, Daemon Bright"), implying that the observers are from the future of our (blue) universe, and that Peter, as you said, isthe first observer.


    Your argument about the arms makes no sense, as assuming that both mes are in the same liner timeline then I cannot be born twice, if however a stranger comes back in time and give the armless me some sort of treatment that allows me to grow arms, and I then dedicate my life to coming up with said treatment (possibly using samples taken from my own treated body), only to become the stranger and got back in time to give myself the arms so the timeline can continue as I remember it.


    aluciddreamer03 wrote:


    Actually, with the development of the air degradation equipment, the Observers are threatening human life. Whether intentionally or not.


    They said in one of the first couple of episodes that the high CO2 content in the atmosphere will reduce the non-observer lifespan to 40 years, hardly a plan for extermination.

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  • Avatar of Selaspy

    Selaspy

    [6]Apr 16, 2013
    • member since: 11/14/06
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 26

    Rob_85 wrote:


    I'm not necessarily saying its not a paradox, I'm just saying that perhaps the observers are using a form of the Predestination Paradox to insure their creation, in much the same way Syknet is perported to have done in Terminator 2/3 (other examples include Continuum and the Andromida episode "Angle Dark, Daemon Bright"), implying that the observers are from the future of our (blue) universe, and that Peter, as you said, isthe first observer.


    Your argument about the arms makes no sense, as assuming that both mes are in the same liner timeline then I cannot be born twice, if however a stranger comes back in time and give the armless me some sort of treatment that allows me to grow arms, and I then dedicate my life to coming up with said treatment (possibly using samples taken from my own treated body), only to become the stranger and got back in time to give myself the arms so the timeline can continue as I remember it.



    Or to quote Scotty "How do we know he didn't invent the stuff" (Star Trek IV if you're not as nerdy as I am).


    Basically it's using time as a loop - no one "invents the stuff" - someone in the future goes back in time and gives the tech to someone in our time who in turn is credited with "inventing it" so people in the future have it to be able to go back in time to give it to them and round and round.

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