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Official Discussion Thread: Brave New World (2) (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of Gislef

    Gislef

    [1]May 10, 2012
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    Please direct all general and specific discussion of the 5/11/12 episode "Brave New World (2)" to this thread.

    Enjoy!
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  • Avatar of Sugar2U

    Sugar2U

    [2]May 11, 2012
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    So this is a different version of William Bell? I am guessing when Peter went missing and changed the timeline Belly may have changed too. Did we ever know what happend to the "other" Bell fromt he other side? Even in the first part of the series I never knew why Bell lived on the other side. Anyone have answers for that. Cannot wait for season final tonite. So so glad we have 13 more episodes to watch...

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  • Avatar of historylover20

    historylover20

    [5]May 11, 2012
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    I got to be honest--until Walter shot Olivia, I really wasn't feeling this season finale. (Still overjoyed it's a season finale and not a series finale!) I was also glad that we found out what happened to September.


    I did love every scene with John Noble and Leonard Nimoy. Don't stay away too long, Bell!


    I also loved the interrogation of the dead Jessica. Nice and creepy. Her blinking her eyes one at a time was a nice and extremely creepy sights. Kudos to the actress.


    So glad I called Olivia being pregnant! (Of course, that was an easy one.)


    And the evil Observers are coming! Great cliffhanger for the last 13 episodes (although we do know the aftermath of it: the Fringe team is defeated, and Bell comes back to do something bad to Olivia.)


    Hey--did that bullet that came out of Olivia look to anyone else like the bullet that Etta was wearing around her neck in "Letters of Transit"?


    I'm now very glad that, thanks to Walter shooting Olivia, she is now "normal." She'll never be completely normal. But, I started thinking that Olivia is getting to be a very boring invincible hero. Too many superpowers make for someone who isn't relatable. It's also why I find Superman a lot more boring than Batman, or most of the Marvel comic book heroes--too many superpowers starts to become kind of unbearable. And I think the writers were wise to say "Enough is enough!" (Can you imagine season 5 with Olivia stopping bullets and healing others and controlling everyone's minds?) I'm very glad the writers ended the superpower escalation before Olivia did become practically a goddess.


    OK episode. It wouldn't have been that great as a series finale, but it's OK as a season finale. I have seen better episodes though (like part 1.)


    Kat

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  • Avatar of MOSTCAPABLEONE

    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [6]May 11, 2012
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    historylover20 wrote:

    I got to be honest--until Walter shot Olivia, I really wasn't feeling this season finale. (Still overjoyed it's a season finale and not a series finale!) I was also glad that we found out what happened to September.


    I did love every scene with John Noble and Leonard Nimoy. Don't stay away too long, Bell!


    I also loved the interrogation of the dead Jessica. Nice and creepy. Her blinking her eyes one at a time was a nice and extremely creepy sights. Kudos to the actress.


    So glad I called Olivia being pregnant! (Of course, that was an easy one.)


    And the evil Observers are coming! Great cliffhanger for the last 13 episodes (although we do know the aftermath of it: the Fringe team is defeated, and Bell comes back to do something bad to Olivia.)


    Hey--did that bullet that came out of Olivia look to anyone else like the bullet that Etta was wearing around her neck in "Letters of Transit"?


    I'm now very glad that, thanks to Walter shooting Olivia, she is now "normal." She'll never be completely normal. But, I started thinking that Olivia is getting to be a very boring invincible hero. Too many superpowers make for someone who isn't relatable. It's also why I find Superman a lot more boring than Batman, or most of the Marvel comic book heroes--too many superpowers starts to become kind of unbearable. And I think the writers were wise to say "Enough is enough!" (Can you imagine season 5 with Olivia stopping bullets and healing others and controlling everyone's minds?) I'm very glad the writers ended the superpower escalation before Olivia did become practically a goddess.


    OK episode. It wouldn't have been that great as a series finale, but it's OK as a season finale. I have seen better episodes though (like part 1.)


    Kat



    The evil Observers??? Interesting...Looking forward to see how that is going to be presented and how they will relate that to Letters of Transit...if they relate that to Letters of Transit at all. Also, I predicted this ending in the thread for the previous episode.

    http://www.tv.com/shows/fringe/forums/official-discussion-thread-brave-new-world-1-possible-spoilers-89686-3356140/?page=2
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  • Avatar of JoshuaFraim1

    JoshuaFraim1

    [7]May 11, 2012
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    you considered that a great cliffhanger? maybe for a regular episode but for a season ending cliffhanger. how can that be compared to peter is dead, the olivia that escaped back to our universe is really the fauxlivia and our olivia is being held by walternate or peter dissappears and ceases to exist having served his purpose(those being the other season ending cliffhangers)?


    this whole ending made me think of the risky move of "what's the best way to shock people expecting a cliffhanger, don't do a cliffhanger". but that works with shows that normally don't end on a cliffhanger. this show is nothing but cliffhangers and when we know we have months to wait we expect something to wait for.



    finally what was this bullsh*t about the battle to save our universe ends in a moment you won't forget ever. yeah right i'll never forget it as one of the worst over hyped moments on the show.

    Edited on 05/11/2012 7:20pm
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  • Avatar of historylover20

    historylover20

    [8]May 11, 2012
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    Yes, I thought it was a great cliffhanger, and I can't wait to see the evil Observers again. And the start of the resistance. I like stuff like that. While the season 2 and 3 cliffhangers were powerful and still my favorite all-around season finales, I'm excited to see how the last 13 episodes will go.


    And I don't appreciate you knocking my opinion like that. You're free to disagree with me, but you don't have to be rude about it.


    Oh, I forgot--


    Josh Jackson knocked it out of the park this evening. Although I really wasn't that worried about Olivia, he killed that scene.


    Kat

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  • Avatar of JoshuaFraim1

    JoshuaFraim1

    [9]May 11, 2012
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    i'm sorry i didn't mean to insult your opinion. i was just really upset and didn't mean to take it out on you. this is just been a year of disappointments for me. i feel like i can't believe anything i read or hear. between two games and now this. believed the hype on all of them.
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    renaldsRAP

    [10]May 11, 2012
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    Loved it. Perfect ending to the season as a whole. The episode itself had its little flaws here and there - but I personally blame most of them on the fact that we KNOW what's on the horizon for next season and that took a lot of wind out of the sails of the collapsing universes storyline. Looking back on it tho, this was an excellent two part finale to an excellent season that played out like a game of chess (except Bell was the only one who knew they were playing). It may have suffered from some lackluster moments that could've been given a little more dramatic impact, but the story was nice and tight and character driven and full of so many awesome things you can only find in "FRINGE" - like Rebecca Mader's weird out of sync blinking after being back to life and speaking in creepy sing-song nursery rhymes. The ending with Olivia was a little too Deus Ex Machina even if it was set up in the first part of the season finale. These last 3 episodes would have been even better if "Letters Of Transit" hadn't come along and made everyone go "David Robert Who?"


    But all in all this episode set out to do what it needed to do. And if Fringe had been cancelled this season, this episode would go out as the embodiment of what we love about it: A little rough around the edges, but with enough enough heart, soul and creativity to be remembered as Timeless.


    This is portrayed perfectly by the end of the episode. September comes to warn Walter about something that will put the world in jeopardy again and Walter gives a performance that's more human than human by speaking 2 words that potentially accomplished 2 things: It set up the storyline for next season regarding The Purge and 2036, but it also could have worked as a de-facto ending that would have left us all wondering what the Fringe Team would be faced with next while leaving no major series long story threads going unanswered. Kudos to the writers, director, producers, cast and crew and everyone who had a hand in this show for being able to pull that off.


    It's gonna be a long wait for season 5, but I have 86 episodes of FRINGE to re-watch and study and be blown away yet again by how tightly woven and carefully thought out this show was from Day 1 so I think I'll be alright for a few weeks.



    P.S.: The Holodeck moment with Spock and Walter had the geek in me pumping his fist at the screen in euphoria

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  • Avatar of JoshuaFraim1

    JoshuaFraim1

    [11]May 11, 2012
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    yeah i was wondering if the ending was because they thought the show was going to be canceled. when they said they never filmed two versions of the ending i thought they meant because they were confident enough that the show would be renewed to take a risk. but it looks like it was because the ending was a very safe choice that sacrificed a good shock for a way to end the show.
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  • Avatar of historylover20

    historylover20

    [12]May 11, 2012
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    JoshuaFraim1 wrote:
    i'm sorry i didn't mean to insult your opinion. i was just really upset and didn't mean to take it out on you. this is just been a year of disappointments for me. i feel like i can't believe anything i read or hear. between two games and now this. believed the hype on all of them.


    You're forgiven.


    Also, I think that this episode would have worked as a series finale (kind of a disappointing series finale because it kind of goes out with a whimper and not a bang) by just cutting the last little bit with Walter and September.


    Kat

    Edited on 05/11/2012 7:41pm
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  • Avatar of JoshuaFraim1

    JoshuaFraim1

    [13]May 11, 2012
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    historylover20 wrote:


    JoshuaFraim1 wrote:
    i'm sorry i didn't mean to insult your opinion. i was just really upset and didn't mean to take it out on you. this is just been a year of disappointments for me. i feel like i can't believe anything i read or hear. between two games and now this. believed the hype on all of them.


    You're forgiven.


    Kat


    i admit that some of what i said was as knee jerk reaction and coming down from a hype high expecting something much bigger. but this was their last chance to leave us reeling all summer long and they didn't take it. i just hope that the series finale is better than j.j.'s last series finale.



    i still wonder about that whole quote "the battle to save our universe ends in a moment you will never forget...ever." maybe if olivia was still dead at the end then yes that moment would be impact-full.

    Edited on 05/11/2012 7:44pm
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    buildam2005

    [14]May 11, 2012
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    I don't know. I figured/knew that Olivia would end up alive (or at least hoped), but seeing Walter actually shoot and kill Olivia (in a nice nod to last season's finale with Walternate shooting her in the head--nice touch there) certainly was emotionally powerful. Yes, she came back, but to me that doesn't undo how watching it made me feel in that moment.

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    JoshuaFraim1

    [15]May 11, 2012
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    i guess my memories of the episode are dirtied as "seen" through hype colored glasses. my friend will want to see it on sunday and so i will see it again when i'm not coming down from a major hype expecting high and i will see the episode differently.
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    CharmedOneP391

    [16]May 11, 2012
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    JoshuaFraim1 wrote:


    historylover20 wrote:


    JoshuaFraim1 wrote:
    i'm sorry i didn't mean to insult your opinion. i was just really upset and didn't mean to take it out on you. this is just been a year of disappointments for me. i feel like i can't believe anything i read or hear. between two games and now this. believed the hype on all of them.


    You're forgiven.


    Kat


    i admit that some of what i said was as knee jerk reaction and coming down from a hype high expecting something much bigger. but this was their last chance to leave us reeling all summer long and they didn't take it. i just hope that the series finale is better than j.j.'s last series finale.



    i still wonder about that whole quote "the battle to save our universe ends in a moment you will never forget...ever." maybe if olivia was still dead at the end then yes that moment would be impact-full.




    I'll still never forget Walter putting a bullet through Olivia's head. Even if I knew or 95% knew that Olivia's brain would heal because she had to give birth to Henrietta.


    I'd say if Letters of Transit was the Season 5 Premiere than the Cliffhanger(s) for this episode would've been more, well...cliffhangery. This did seem like one of the few "possible Series Finales" that Chuck had..could've ended the show somewhat satisfyingly..but there's still threads to be tied up.



    Loved Rebecca Nader's performance, did anyone else notice that her character's death in both Fringe and Lost were very similar, in that they were both spitting out memories from their past.


    Loved the scenes in the helicopter, loved seeing Broyles get a promotion, makes me think next Season the Fringe Division will be more efficient like in Red-Verse.


    Again, the scene with Walter, Bell, Olivia and Peter on the "ark" was very, very intense for me. Loved every second.


    & as always..Loved September. Loved the explanation of his shooting. Was a little offput that the only reason why he goes to warn Olivia is because she told him he did. But then again, excellent use of a Paradox, perfect for Fringe. I'm assuming, since I didnt see him bleeding when he warned Olivia, that after the events of "The End of All Things" when he dissapeared from the lab, he went to 2036(ish?) or 2609 when The ObserverspoisonedThe Earth, and found out that The Observers were planning on moving on from "observing their beginnings" to "Taking Over The Past".


    Can't wait for Season 5. This episode was very, very satisfying as the end of the 4th Season of this great saga. (wouldn't had been the ending I hoped Fringe, though. Thank You FOX for the Final 13)

    Edited on 05/11/2012 8:05pm
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  • Avatar of JoshuaFraim1

    JoshuaFraim1

    [17]May 11, 2012
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    what's bothering me is this last season seems to over complicated things to the point that all answers can't possibly be given in 13 episodes. like why is this timeline so drastically different from the other ones. it couldn't be just because peter didn't grow up. so peter growing up kept william bell from becoming a megalomaniac, peter growing up stopped the observers from taking over (or is the 2026 future from last season not really the future of the shows main timeline).



    the whole thing reminds me of the side flashes from the final season of lost. when that started we thought they were simply about what would happen if the plane had never crashed but then little things popped up that couldn't exist in the same timeline whether the plane crashed or not (jack has a kid suddenly). this new timeline can't be about peter not having grown up and nothing else.

    Edited on 05/11/2012 8:15pm
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  • Avatar of JoshuaFraim1

    JoshuaFraim1

    [18]May 11, 2012
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    i know the show people said there are still only 2 universes and we haven't been seeing a 3rd. but they also said leonard nimoy wasn't returning so who knows. i think that everything after we saw peter wake back up in the machine last season was a new universe (which is why we aren't seeing red or blue openings) and the reason why peter never returned to his universe is because his destiny is to save these two universes from the observers. the series will end with him finally returning home (hopefully unless they kill him off as a martyr like they did with lost).
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  • Avatar of MoRestrepo

    MoRestrepo

    [20]May 11, 2012
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    Sugar2U wrote:


    So this is a different version of William Bell? I am guessing when Peter went missing and changed the timeline Belly may have changed too. Did we ever know what happend to the "other" Bell fromt he other side? Even in the first part of the series I never knew why Bell lived on the other side. Anyone have answers for that. Cannot wait for season final tonite. So so glad we have 13 more episodes to watch...



    I guess the only character without an alteruniverse version so far is Belly. I wish we could know what happened to the other William Bell. Loved the episode, btw


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    MaKTaiL

    [21]May 11, 2012
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    MoRestrepo wrote:

    Sugar2U wrote:


    So this is a different version of William Bell? I am guessing when Peter went missing and changed the timeline Belly may have changed too. Did we ever know what happend to the "other" Bell fromt he other side? Even in the first part of the series I never knew why Bell lived on the other side. Anyone have answers for that. Cannot wait for season final tonite. So so glad we have 13 more episodes to watch...



    I guess the only character without an alteruniverse version so far is Belly. I wish we could know what happened to the other William Bell. Loved the episode, btw




    Willian Bell said that his counter part died when he was little. So I guess changing the timeline did not affect that (why would it anyway, not peter's fault).
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