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FOX (ended 2013)

Official Discussion Thread: Brave New World (2) (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of MOSTCAPABLEONE

    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [63]May 24, 2012
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    danharr wrote:

    Just when I thought we were going to get a positive season finale. The other shoe drops now we prepare for the Observer war. This was great episode Walter shooting Olivia and always loved Bells harmonic mode of universe travel can't wait till the fall.



    Bell's escape was a little much for me. As soon as he moved towards the bell, I would have shot him. No one told him to stop moving, halt, or nothing at all. They just watched him walk over to the bell, hit in and fade into nothingness.
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  • Avatar of raul2014

    raul2014

    [64]May 26, 2012
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    This has got to be the worst episode of Fringe ever.

    It defies logic in so many ways that I don't even know where to begin.Bell can find a way to destroy 2 universes but can't find a cure for cancer,really?Then we have to take to consideration that the universe if it isn't infinite then it is enourmous and our planet is less than nothing compared to it as a whole but Olivia has the power to destroy it all?

    And she stores soo much energy in her and there are no side effects besides the power to do anything effortesely which is absurd,her powers have no fundation in logic.Even if such powers were real you can't simply take them out of your hat and wave them in any way you(and the writers) want.Then this show takes absoluteley no risk,no matter the characters go through,no matter how they die,or how many times,they always come back in so many stupid ways. You may ask me why I watched this show in the first place and so I will answer right now: at the beginning things were plausible,some experiment that seem to be in reach of human science in the near future,but when I see actions that can destroy a universe I start to laugh.Nothing a human can do leads to something this big.There are so many thing we can't understand in our universe. Then we are introduced to reshaping a new universe.How exactly? Let's presume that destroying 2 universes is possible,how do you make the new one as you want? How can anyone know how a universe works when we don't even know how life came to be. Then after the bing bang matter moves at a velocity so high that not even the atoms can form as we know them,but Bell expect to survive? And even if he does before a planet can sustain him it would take million of years ,at least! This is simply bullshit.Ut's not science fiction,it's a fairy tale for illogical people.
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  • Avatar of danharr

    danharr

    [65]May 26, 2012
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    raul2014 wrote:
    This has got to be the worst episode of Fringe ever. It defies logic in so many ways that I don't even know where to begin.Bell can find a way to destroy 2 universes but can't find a cure for cancer,really?Then we have to take to consideration that the universe if it isn't infinite then it is enourmous and our planet is less than nothing compared to it as a whole but Olivia has the power to destroy it all? And she stores soo much energy in her and there are no side effects besides the power to do anything effortesely which is absurd,her powers have no fundation in logic.Even if such powers were real you can't simply take them out of your hat and wave them in any way you(and the writers) want.Then this show takes absoluteley no risk,no matter the characters go through,no matter how they die,or how many times,they always come back in so many stupid ways. You may ask me why I watched this show in the first place and so I will answer right now: at the beginning things were plausible,some experiment that seem to be in reach of human science in the near future,but when I see actions that can destroy a universe I start to laugh.Nothing a human can do leads to something this big.There are so many thing we can't understand in our universe. Then we are introduced to reshaping a new universe.How exactly? Let's presume that destroying 2 universes is possible,how do you make the new one as you want? How can anyone know how a universe works when we don't even know how life came to be. Then after the bing bang matter moves at a velocity so high that not even the atoms can form as we know them,but Bell expect to survive? And even if he does before a planet can sustain him it would take million of years ,at least! This is simply bullshit.Ut's not science fiction,it's a fairy tale for illogical people.


    Yeah I'm pretty sure Bell's arrogance covers most of your gripes. He may want to die of cancer to die a martyr for the new world and his arrogance makes him think his plan is perfect. Hence no question if the new universe will have the properties needed to sustain life as we know it.

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  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [66]May 30, 2012
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    MOSTCAPABLEONE wrote:
    There is no way on heaven and earth I would work with a man that tried to collapse two world's(one being mine) and has a god complex. Even beyond that, he can't be trusted. He has proven that. He would be killed on sight. The no friendship part was partially explained by Walter when he said, "After what he did to Olivia". Well in our universe, he not only tried to do something to Olivia. He tried to destroy our world.


    On one hand, that's true. Literally trying to destroy the world to create it in your image, AND almost succeeding, kind of makes all of the war criminals in the past look like shop lifters.



    However, if faced with a threat as great as the Observers... you might have to take whatever help you can get. And you have to figure that Bell can at least be PARTIALLY trusted, if for no other reason than his goals/desires are in direct conflict with "a human race that destroyed the Earth in the future, and are now ruling the present and acting like the same jerks that destroyed the Earth in the first place."


    Seriously, the Observers apparently embody everything that Bell hates: greed, doing whatever they want, no thought for their affects on the Earth, etc. They're caricatures of humanity, representing all of our faults.



    It's like in the comics: Lex Luthor is a tool. You'd have to be crazy to trust him and work with him. But when an even BIGGER bad like a COSMIC threat has come to destroy the Earth... heroes and villains often work side by side.

    Edited on 05/30/2012 6:00am
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  • Avatar of MOSTCAPABLEONE

    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [67]May 30, 2012
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    kanniballl wrote:

    MOSTCAPABLEONE wrote:
    There is no way on heaven and earth I would work with a man that tried to collapse two world's(one being mine) and has a god complex. Even beyond that, he can't be trusted. He has proven that. He would be killed on sight. The no friendship part was partially explained by Walter when he said, "After what he did to Olivia". Well in our universe, he not only tried to do something to Olivia. He tried to destroy our world.


    On one hand, that's true. Literally trying to destroy the world to create it in your image, AND almost succeeding, kind of makes all of the war criminals in the past look like shop lifters.



    However, if faced with a threat as great as the Observers... you might have to take whatever help you can get. And you have to figure that Bell can at least be PARTIALLY trusted, if for no other reason than his goals/desires are in direct conflict with "a human race that destroyed the Earth in the future, and are now ruling the present and acting like the same jerks that destroyed the Earth in the first place."


    Seriously, the Observers apparently embody everything that Bell hates: greed, doing whatever they want, no thought for their affects on the Earth, etc. They're caricatures of humanity, representing all of our faults.



    It's like in the comics: Lex Luthor is a tool. You'd have to be crazy to trust him and work with him. But when an even BIGGER bad like a COSMIC threat has come to destroy the Earth... heroes and villains often work side by side.



    First of all, Bell demonstrated future technology. Even September mentioned it when he was captured on that platform that Bell built. Also, the way Bell disappeared into thin air at the end of the episode was some form of technology we never seen before. We have no idea if Bell created this technology on his own or if he was working with somebody else with advanced technology...like the Observers. How can you trust someone under any circumstances that tried to destroy two worlds just to create a world in his image and is using future tech from either his own creation or possibly an unknown accomplice with future tech? He could be working with the evil Observers all along.

    Secondly, I don't feel that the Observers embody everything that Bell hates. In fact, I believe they have the same agenda but are going about it differently. In both cases, they want to reshape the world in their own image. Bell wishes to destroy the world first then rebuild in his image whereas the Observers want to keep the world in tact but enslave the world and have it ran in their image and based on their visions according to what we saw in Letters in Transit. Finally, it is true that sometimes villains join forces with heroes to thwart a larger threat, however, Lex Luthor would never destory universes and should not be mentioned within that analogy. I believe Randall Savage would have been a better choice. He is someone who has actually tried to destroy our world more than once and I still can't see no hero aligning themself with him under any circumstances. Also, what larger threat can there be other than someone that wants to destroy two universes and that has a god complex?
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  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [68]Jun 1, 2012
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    *Vandal Savage you mean. Yes, in the series finale of JLU, Luthor and the league worked together to stop Darkseid. Obviously they wouldn't have let Luthor go free (he 'vanishes' in the explosion), but they had to work with him against a greater threat. But in JL, Vandal Savage did destroy earth, but a time displaced Superman still worked with him to go back in time to prevent the younger Savage from detroying the earth.So as horrible as Bell was, under some circumstances, even enemies must work together against an even greater threat.


    As for someone saying LOT was 'amber' universe, unless both universes were merged, it has to be the blue universe because the Twin towers are not there and there's just 1WTC and 7WTC was the old Massive dynamics HQ. So unless they say the 2 universes were merged, I still say it is just the blue universe.

    Edited on 06/01/2012 10:59am
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  • Avatar of MOSTCAPABLEONE

    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [69]Jun 4, 2012
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    MajLorne wrote:

    *Vandal Savage you mean. Yes, in the series finale of JLU, Luthor and the league worked together to stop Darkseid. Obviously they wouldn't have let Luthor go free (he 'vanishes' in the explosion), but they had to work with him against a greater threat. But in JL, Vandal Savage did destroy earth, but a time displaced Superman still worked with him to go back in time to prevent the younger Savage from detroying the earth.So as horrible as Bell was, under some circumstances, even enemies must work together against an even greater threat.


    As for someone saying LOT was 'amber' universe, unless both universes were merged, it has to be the blue universe because the Twin towers are not there and there's just 1WTC and 7WTC was the old Massive dynamics HQ. So unless they say the 2 universes were merged, I still say it is just the blue universe.



    Yea but once again, I can see nobody foolish enough to work with Vandal Savage to save the world...a world that he has been trying to destroy and recreate in his own image. Similarly, I cannot see anybody working with Bell for the same reasons. When somebody's ultimate endgame is to destroy the world and then recreate it in their own image, they can never be trusted. As far, as what universe is shown in LOT, I hope that is cleared up next season by the writers. That whole subject reminds of the show "Sliders" a little where even they didn't know most of the times if they were in their home universe until the latter part of some episodes.
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  • Avatar of Sugar2U

    Sugar2U

    [70]Jun 4, 2012
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    I loved the first seasons of Sliders but then some charactors left and they got " the brother "....but I liked how they had multi-universes instead of just two. This show is better however.

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  • Avatar of MOSTCAPABLEONE

    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [71]Jun 5, 2012
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    Sugar2U wrote:

    I loved the first seasons of Sliders but then some charactors left and they got " the brother "....but I liked how they had multi-universes instead of just two. This show is better however.



    Agreed!

    When the main characters from Sliders left, wasn't getting the main character's real life brother to play his brother the worse choice ever????

    Also, was it necessary to basically kill off all of the original characters except Rembrandt???

    Geez...
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  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [72]Jun 5, 2012
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    I wasn't too upset over his brother being added on the show. But season 5 was just forgettable, and of course it ended on a cliffhanger never to be resolved. But I do agree that it was better with the original group especially with the professor. Heh speaking of sliders, I was very upset that one of the times they were on earth prime, they left right away because the gate didn't squeak. Are you friggin kidding me?!? And the other time it was because Maggie couldn't handle the atmosphere. I'm sorry to "dump her on the curb" but I would've given her the device and wish her luck and stay home.

    To me. If they were to have done a true finale, rembrandt would've ended back on earth prime in the past to stop "Jerry's character" from sliding in the first place and end there about the possible adventures they could've had.
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  • Avatar of MOSTCAPABLEONE

    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [73]Jun 6, 2012
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    MajLorne wrote:
    I wasn't too upset over his brother being added on the show. But season 5 was just forgettable, and of course it ended on a cliffhanger never to be resolved. But I do agree that it was better with the original group especially with the professor. Heh speaking of sliders, I was very upset that one of the times they were on earth prime, they left right away because the gate didn't squeak. Are you friggin kidding me?!? And the other time it was because Maggie couldn't handle the atmosphere. I'm sorry to "dump her on the curb" but I would've given her the device and wish her luck and stay home.

    To me. If they were to have done a true finale, rembrandt would've ended back on earth prime in the past to stop "Jerry's character" from sliding in the first place and end there about the possible adventures they could've had.


    I was very upset over the brother joining the cast because he couldn't act at all and he had a dufusocity level of 12. (I know, I just made up a word...but I think it fits well)

    That gate incident was horrible. I would have felt better if when he returned to Earth Prime, the entire gate was replaced by his mom without his knowledge and that fooled him as opposed to just a non squeaking gate. Also, Maggie not handling the atmosphere was a joke to me as well. You had three choices, one let her stay there and perhaps the effects were temporary or not as severe as first suspected (which was the case), two give her the sliding device, tell her to use it and slide alone and wish her luck, three put her in a room as soon as possible isolated with the air quality that she could temporarily survive in while they try to build another sliding device or create her some healing injection or medicine that would allow her to breathe on Earth Prime. Another thing that bothered me is they never explored or cleared up whether or not the original Professor was with them after he fought his duplicate on one of the universes. The writers of the show said they were going to do something with that but it never materialized.

    I was thinking a good finale would have been if they all returned to Earth Prime and battled the Kromags and had a surprise ending with either most of or all of the original cast members being brought back. They could have based their return on utilizing Kromag technology. The real professor should have still been alive anyway in a different universe but he could have made it back to Earth Prime, Wade's body could have been somehow reassembled to her brain and consciousness, Quinn could have been reintegrated into his former body and so on. Just for that last final episode making all issues come full circle.
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  • Avatar of kanniballl

    kanniballl

    [75]Jun 26, 2012
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    MOSTCAPABLEONE wrote:


    ...Secondly, I don't feel that the Observers embody everything that Bell hates. In fact, I believe they have the same agenda but are going about it differently. In both cases, they want to reshape the world in their own image.


    ...


    Bell wished to destroy the universe and remove humans from the equations because he felt they were doing more harm than good. TRUE, he wanted to re-make it in his image, but his ultimate plan was for there to be no more humans. Hence he said that he'd hoped he and Walter would just live the remainder of their days in the new world and when they died a couple of years later... humans == gone.


    Observers ARE humans, just insanely advanced and evolved humans. As we've seen and learned: they're big on fulfilling their vices. They're greedy. And they destroyed their earth to the point of making it inhabitable (even with their tech).


    So as messed up as Bell was: he was trying to remake paradise, while the Observers just wanted to eat+drink+screw and destroy the environment.

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  • Avatar of MOSTCAPABLEONE

    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [76]Jun 27, 2012
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    kanniballl wrote:

    MOSTCAPABLEONE wrote:


    ...Secondly, I don't feel that the Observers embody everything that Bell hates. In fact, I believe they have the same agenda but are going about it differently. In both cases, they want to reshape the world in their own image.


    ...


    Bell wished to destroy the universe and remove humans from the equations because he felt they were doing more harm than good. TRUE, he wanted to re-make it in his image, but his ultimate plan was for there to be no more humans. Hence he said that he'd hoped he and Walter would just live the remainder of their days in the new world and when they died a couple of years later... humans == gone.


    Observers ARE humans, just insanely advanced and evolved humans. As we've seen and learned: they're big on fulfilling their vices. They're greedy. And they destroyed their earth to the point of making it inhabitable (even with their tech).


    So as messed up as Bell was: he was trying to remake paradise, while the Observers just wanted to eat+drink+screw and destroy the environment.



    Ultimately, both Bell and the Observers wanted the same thing which was to reshape the world as we know into their own images...regardless of what was the drivers behind both of their ideals. Also, besides Bell, there was workers on that barge that would have survived his "remove humans from the equation" idea as well.
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    metsla99

    [77]Jul 2, 2012
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    question to everyone... i know i heard that short music theme before but in this episode it got to me...
    i really want to know where is it from... what song ect.... it was just as the tracking of the ship finished and helicopters were sent out .... around when broyles said "call upstairs, tell them we need choppers"

    i know i have heard that theme or really similar ones before but i just cannot place it...
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