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FOX (ended 2013)

Official Discussion Thread: Letters of Transit (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of BarryWeen3

    BarryWeen3

    [22]Apr 21, 2012
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    historylover20 wrote:


    Double post, but I got some food for thought for you.


    This episode took place in 1936.


    Henrietta said the last time she saw her parents was when she was 4 years old.


    The team have been ambered for the last 20 years.


    So, they were ambered in 2016, which was the last time Etta saw her parents.


    She was born in 2012.


    Kat



    1936?


    They look pretty hip for the times. Wink

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  • Avatar of StefanPinto

    StefanPinto

    [23]Apr 21, 2012
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    ***POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT FOR NEXT EPISODE***


    The writers of fringe are amazing and I applaud them for using the word 'intention' in the way they work their magic. The reason why I say this is, because if you find out the intentions of every person you may figure out what's going to happen. My theory in order to save Bell, Astrid and Peter Walter had to use the device to protect themselves from Mad two-faced Scientist (whatshisname) from colliding two worlds. Suggesting, Bell was with them at apinnaclemoment in time to push someone out from the amber. So either *a device* is in Amber or it blew up in Mad-two-faced scientist.


    The more I think about it the more I wonder were the observers waiting for the right time to Nazi 2016? As well, are they preventing people from drinking coffee or is that the fuel for their mental probe.


    They said a war was coming a few seasons ago and I guess its a war with crazy scientists who know everything wishing they were living in their respective 'good times'.


    That bullet necklace got me thinking in the logic would you give a bullet necklace to your daughter if the mother died from it or was saved from it. Only them crazy writers with their LSD or water in a flask know how to answer that. Hopefully in the next episode

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  • Avatar of skajkingdom

    skajkingdom

    [24]Apr 21, 2012
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    FecesĀ³.

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  • Avatar of ReginaDarlin

    ReginaDarlin

    [25]Apr 21, 2012
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    This may be a stupid question, but I had to watch the ep online after the fact, and it was 42.51 long, but the very last scene was Peter and Etta on the train embracing, a train moving in the distance, then end! NOTHING after that! Was that the end???? Or did I miss several crucial minutes to close out the show???



    Because I have to admit, if that IS the way it ended, I am not too happy with the ep or where it left me - feeling VERY incomplete! I got no closure!



    Someone care to help me out and explain if I missed something, or if I didn't, how I was supposed to interpret "fin" to that ending??

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  • Avatar of historylover20

    historylover20

    [26]Apr 21, 2012
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    BarryWeen3 wrote:


    historylover20 wrote:


    Double post, but I got some food for thought for you.


    This episode took place in 2036.


    Henrietta said the last time she saw her parents was when she was 4 years old.


    The team have been ambered for the last 20 years.


    So, they were ambered in 2016, which was the last time Etta saw her parents.


    She was born in 2012.


    Kat



    1936?


    They look pretty hip for the times. Wink



    Oops! Ha. Embarassed


    Corrected here and in my original post.


    Kat

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  • Avatar of MajLorne

    MajLorne

    [27]Apr 21, 2012
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    ReginaDarlin wrote:

    This may be a stupid question, but I had to watch the ep online after the fact, and it was 42.51 long, but the very last scene was Peter and Etta on the train embracing, a train moving in the distance, then end! NOTHING after that! Was that the end???? Or did I miss several crucial minutes to close out the show???



    Because I have to admit, if that IS the way it ended, I am not too happy with the ep or where it left me - feeling VERY incomplete! I got no closure!



    Someone care to help me out and explain if I missed something, or if I didn't, how I was supposed to interpret "fin" to that ending??

    You didn't miss anything. After the shot of the train heading back to Brooklyn, it ends. Thus why most of us are not just hoping, but demanding there's an answer to everything that happened here via a 'part 2' or incorporated into the final episodes of the season.

    I do have to say I love the premise of the episode, but was disappointed at how it ended with more questions. If any are answered, I'll be happy, but if this is a one off and nothing is explained, then I'm sorry to say that d have to give this a very poor rating. I will refrain from rating this ep till the season (i hope and not series) finale.

    As for 'John Nobel deserves an Emmy': Hell yeah! Too long has this brilliant man been denied what is rightfully his. The range from being a carefree happy guy to a cold calculating sob, just 'fantastic'! I mean if they can give an 'obscure' show like Mad Men awards, why not a best actor award to John Nobel for this show?
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  • Avatar of BarryWeen3

    BarryWeen3

    [28]Apr 22, 2012
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    I, apparently, are one of the few that enjoyed the episode as is. It was glimpse into the future, possibly the storyline we might see unfold in season 5, and I enjoyed it as such.


    Did it raise more questions? Of course it did, but I don't think the Fringe writers threwthis episodein thisseasonwily-nily without purpose.


    Walter was fun as usual and I thought the mixture of spacey and calculating Walter was well done. Him using the anitmatter, him removing Belly's hand. I did kind of wonder what it was that Bell did to Olivia that had Walter so angry at him.


    People have talked about the absence of Olivia, which makes sense if her future which September says couldn't be changed in every timeline he looked at, though I wonder if Bell is responsible in some way for what happens to Olivia and that's what Walter is referring to in his conversation with Astrid.


    And yes, it was pretty obvious who Agent Etta was, but I don't really think that was suppose to be a mystery.


    I also liked Agent Simon.


    Long live the Resistance!

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  • Avatar of kepa55

    kepa55

    [29]Apr 22, 2012
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    If you like sci-fi, I can't see how you could not like this one; just spotting all the references to all other shows and films during first viewing is impossible. Awesome episode, and certainly reminded me of Dollhouse's finale(s). Let's just hope Fringe lives on a bit longer than that show.

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  • Avatar of historylover20

    historylover20

    [30]Apr 22, 2012
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    It already has. Dollhouse ran for 26 episodes, while Fringe is the second-longest hour-long series Fox has ever had at 84 episodes.


    Kat

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  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [31]Apr 22, 2012
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    I've been starting to think that Walter, presumably under the instructions of September, made a kind of failsafe in the machine so that if its primary user (obviously Peter) got erased from the timeline, it would pull him back in. He obviously had a strong connection to it, and it had a strong connection to the two universes it was connecting, so I could see that in a strange theoretical way. Peter is important for many reasons, and needs to exist if the Observers are going to be opposed. For one, he ends up having a daughter with Olivia, who is the Olivia that Peter was meant to have a child with according to September. Why? Because of the cortexifan experiments that were performed on her, which was passed down to Etta, who can block the Observers' thoughts. I believe she said in this episode that there are others like her (which would make sense since there are other people that were experimented on), but the world needs her specifically for events that will play a big role in the Observers' downfall. For one, she brought back Walter, Peter, and Astrid when nobody else would have. And they will probably play a big role in the Observer's downfall as well.
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  • Avatar of tommy0122

    tommy0122

    [32]Apr 22, 2012
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    I don't know what the writers are smoking. Fringe is turning into a convoluted mess that defies being able to follow. This use to be my favorite show but the writers are ruining it. Maybe I'm just thick, but I can hardly follow what's going on any more.

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  • Avatar of LalaDrake

    LalaDrake

    [33]Apr 22, 2012
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    I loved the episode and was really crazy about the new storyline and DESMOOOOOONDLaughingtill he was frozenUndecided



    BUT what happened to DRJ?... it's exactly what happened before... he was planning for the new army then they brought us the parallel universe thing!
    I was soo excited about it and I pretend to forget about David ... till they brought him backLaughingand now we have 2 forget about him once moreCry
    perhaps till they run out of storyTongue outor hmmm they get us back to our current time with the new timeline ... donno how it would happen though ....
    This time how can we forget about him when he just killed our Lee from the other universe


    oh, Olivia! where is she? maybe she dies and some of our team bring her from the past before anything happen 2 her....
    Bill again! he was always Walter's friend! what did he do to our Olivia then Frown


    What is with the Coffee! why it's a big deal? a universe without it and another chewing it ... i think one of the writers was a caffeine addict and he thinks of world free of it

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  • Avatar of buildam2005

    buildam2005

    [34]Apr 22, 2012
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    tommy0122 wrote:

    I don't know what the writers are smoking. Fringe is turning into a convoluted mess that defies being able to follow. This use to be my favorite show but the writers are ruining it. Maybe I'm just thick, but I can hardly follow what's going on any more.



    I don't think you're too thick to follow what's going on, but you're being a bit close-minded about whether the writers know what's going on. They've always followed through with explanations and a plotting that has, by the end of major story markers, made sense. Why should we assume that this season and what they did in this episode were any different? What we've gotten so far this season has made complete sense to me. Until this episode. I have no idea how all of the pieces work together, but considering how well the writers made those pieces work together in seasons 1-3, don't they deserve the benefit of the doubt?
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  • Avatar of HotStuff1026

    HotStuff1026

    [35]Apr 22, 2012
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    I haven't read all the replies, but here's my take on this (strange, weird) episode:


    WTF?!?!?


    This episode made NO sense whatsoever. Yes, we know Fringe is preparing for it's End Game. But this...was a serious "jump the shark" moment.


    First of all: William Bell. HE'S DEAD. Bell died in Season 3:


    SEASON 1, 2009: Olivia Dunham travels to the Other Side, where she encounters William Bell in his office in the World Trade Center. She is given a cup of tea containing "soul magnets" that will propel Bell's consciousness into her body in the event of his death (ref. There's More Than One Of Everything, Stowaway) SEASON 3: Triggered by the ringing of a bell, the soul magnets ingested by Olivia at the end of Season One are activated and her body is taken over by William Bell (ref. Os)


    It is impossible for him to be there, encased in amber, with Walter and the rest of them. Period. Just. Not. Possible. He's dead. Without him being dead, the story line in Season 3 wouldn't have been possible. The "soul magnets" wouldn't have worked, and he couldn't have taken over Olivia's body, unless he was dead.


    Secondly: They introduce a kid Peter and Olivia had? And the Observers haven't killed her? OF COURSE THE OBSERVERS WOULD KNOW ABOUT HER. How? That's brings up my next point:


    THE OBSERVERS: They see the past, the present, and the future - all at once. While we pretty much always assumed this fact, we learned it as a definite fact in Season 4, Episode 11 (Making Angels), when the Fringe team investigates a series of murders committed by a former MIT professor who has adapted Observer technology, which he found at Reiden Lake, for his own use.


    Also: the Observers are able, via the use of their hat and a device, use any door as a gateway to somewhere else. We saw this, too, in a previous episode. Apparently, they are no longer able to do that.


    Any such "human uprising" against the Observers would fail - simply because the Observers can see the past, present, and future, all at once. They'd know exactly what we were going to do, when we'd do it, and who'd be doing it. They'd know Peter and Olivia had a daughter. Hell, they'd know where Walter, Peter, Astrid, and Bell were encased in amber - because they'd know they were going to do that. DUH.


    This episode was far too confusing. So much so, I thought that maybe I'd missed a few episodes or something. No back story, no building up, confusing information...well, it is close to the end of Season 4, and with the possibility of no Season 5, they have announced that they've prepared the End Game, "just in case". But still, this is as confusing as Lost was.


    IMO? Epic fail. As in JUMPED THE SHARK fail.

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  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [36]Apr 22, 2012
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    HotStuff1026 wrote:


    I haven't read all the replies, but here's my take on this (strange, weird) episode:


    WTF?!?!?


    This episode made NO sense whatsoever. Yes, we know Fringe is preparing for it's End Game. But this...was a serious "jump the shark" moment.


    First of all: William Bell. HE'S DEAD. Bell died in Season 3:


    SEASON 1, 2009: Olivia Dunham travels to the Other Side, where she encounters William Bell in his office in the World Trade Center. She is given a cup of tea containing "soul magnets" that will propel Bell's consciousness into her body in the event of his death (ref. There's More Than One Of Everything, Stowaway) SEASON 3: Triggered by the ringing of a bell, the soul magnets ingested by Olivia at the end of Season One are activated and her body is taken over by William Bell (ref. Os)


    It is impossible for him to be there, encased in amber, with Walter and the rest of them. Period. Just. Not. Possible. He's dead. Without him being dead, the story line in Season 3 wouldn't have been possible. The "soul magnets" wouldn't have worked, and he couldn't have taken over Olivia's body, unless he was dead.


    First of all, I should point out one thing: What we've been seing in season 4 is a different timeline that what we saw in seasons 1-3. It's what would have happened if Peter wasn't rescued from the lakeby September, but for some reason (as I said in a previous post, I think it's because of the machine that Peter used at the end of season 3) he was brought back into the new timeline as an adult. David Robert Jones died in season 1, but he's back now. Alternate Broyles died in season 3, but he's back now.


    That being said, you're right. Even in this new timeline, it was said that he was dead. But that doesn't really matter, because this show is known for shifting things around so that people can be brought back in some form after their death. Be it a parallel universe, altered timeline, or whatever. On first glance, it's easy to assume that this is the same universe, and same timeline that we're watching in the rest of season 4,but itmight not be as straight-forward as that.One thing I've read about online but didn't notice myself while watching was the fact that there's one of the World Trade Center towers still standing in this episode, which would be the most clear hint that this is a different universe or timeline than what we've been watching (as long as you were paying close enough attention, which it seems neither you nor I were). The way I see it, there's two likely possibilities of what we saw in this episode: either David Robert Jones succeeds in his plans and combines both the blue and red universes to create a new universe, in which William Bell managed to survive, or we are simply seeing the end results of more timeline manipulations in order to create the perfect world to settle down into and take over.


    Believe me, I can easily understand why you can get confused. The leaps from one universe to another or one timeline to another can be confusing, and even I can get dizzy thinking about it all. I do think that the writers have done a fantastic job of handling it all, but I can understand why somebody may not like it, even if they can keep up with it all.



    :
    Secondly: They introduce a kid Peter and Olivia had? And the Observers haven't killed her? OF COURSE THE OBSERVERS WOULD KNOW ABOUT HER. How? That's brings up my next point:


    THE OBSERVERS: They see the past, the present, and the future - all at once. While we pretty much always assumed this fact, we learned it as a definite fact in Season 4, Episode 11 (Making Angels), when the Fringe team investigates a series of murders committed by a former MIT professor who has adapted Observer technology, which he found at Reiden Lake, for his own use.


    Also: the Observers are able, via the use of their hat and a device, use any door as a gateway to somewhere else. We saw this, too, in a previous episode. Apparently, they are no longer able to do that.


    Any such "human uprising" against the Observers would fail - simply because the Observers can see the past, present, and future, all at once. They'd know exactly what we were going to do, when we'd do it, and who'd be doing it. They'd know Peter and Olivia had a daughter. Hell, they'd know where Walter, Peter, Astrid, and Bell were encased in amber - because they'd know they were going to do that. DUH.



    This is actually a very good point, and one that I've been thinking about as well. However, I did read a post on another site addressing this issue.


    You brought up the one device that the Observerse use to see past, present, and future, as well as various alternate timelines. I believe that these devices were given to a handful of scientests in order to find the perfect world for them to take over, and to make sure events go just right so that that future becomes a reality. Only those Observers have that power, and only while they have that device in their possession. September lost that device, and it was found by that one scientistfrom "Making Angels," who then was able to do the same thing as the Observers. I believe that once they found their perfect world, those devices were considered useless. Of course, the scientists who were sent to create the world we saw in this episode do have their experiences from when they had those devices. However, you have to remember, there are an infinite number of possible futures that occur based on the choices people make. They can't possibly know which one of those futures will actually happen once they take over.


    Of course, that still leaves the question of why they wouldn't know who Etta was. She does have the Corexiphan in her blood, which allows her to hide her thoughts from the Observers, so that takes care of any of the Observers who weren't part of the team sent to create the perfect world, but the ones who were part of that team would probably know her. Honestly, I have no answer for this issue, except for the possibility that maybe they were killed between the events of "The Consultant" and this episode so they couldn't help the others locate her. Hopefully this point is addressed if they ever come back to this storyline in the future.


    ... And after writing all of that, it's even easier to see why some people would be confused by all of this, lol.

    Edited on 04/22/2012 8:52pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of buildam2005

    buildam2005

    [37]Apr 22, 2012
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    Why does everyone assume that this is the William Bell from our universe? We never really knew what happened to the William Bell originally from the red universe. Why couldn't it be him?



    It's simply poor logic to just assume that this is a plothole. Of course the writers know that we saw Bell die in season two. You honestly think they forgot that? Surely, this is at least partly explained by the shifts in timeline--Peter had a profound effect on the Fringe team ending up in the red universe, so there's no reason to assume Bell would have had to have sacrificed himself for them to get there in the alternate timeline. Even with that said, and even with one version of Bell dead, THERE'S STILL HIS RED UNIVERSE VERSION THAT COULD HAVE BEEN ENCASED IN THE AMBER.



    And what do we really know about the Observers fully? It's simply unfair to assume that this story line makes no sense. Hardly a clear jump the shark event. How do we really know that this wasn't their plan THE WHOLE TIME? Just because a human character claims that they came back in time doesn't mean that's what they really did--could have just been the observers' cover story.

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    Hungry_Homer111

    [38]Apr 22, 2012
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    buildam2005 wrote:


    Why does everyone assume that this is the William Bell from our universe? We never really knew what happened to the William Bell originally from the red universe. Why couldn't it be him?


    In the original timeline, they mentioned that the other William Bell died as a kid. I believe that this was mentioned when everybody crossed over to the other universe at the end of season 2. Since this new timeline is the world as it would have been without Peter surviving as a kid, this would have been too early into the timeline for that to be one of the changes.

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    Hungry_Homer111

    [39]Apr 22, 2012
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    Sorry for the double post.


    I just rewatched this episode, and got so much more out of it this time. Part of the reason I disliked this episode so much the first time was that I was expecting one thing (a seperate, and complete story set in the future, that leaves just enough open to expand on in season 5) when I got something else entirely (the first chapter in a story that leaves a big hole to be filled in the next season). Now that I knew that to expect, and have thought about the implications for the bigger picture, this episode seemed so much better. I loved the characters that it set up, and the dynamics between Simon and Etta. If the show does get a 5th season for the writers to explore these ideas more, I would love to see more of Simon's character, if they can realistically write him back in. Also, the world as a whole was developed a lot better than I innitially thought there were a few layers that I somehow missed the first time which seemed interesting and could lead to some interesting storytelling in the future. Of course, a big part of the rewatchability of the episode later on will depend on if it does get renewed, but for now this episode when from "worst Fringe episode ever" to yet another great episode in this fantastic season.

    Edited on 04/22/2012 8:40pm
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  • Avatar of Lccf

    Lccf

    [40]Apr 23, 2012
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    buildam2005 wrote:


    even with one version of Bell dead, THERE'S STILL HIS RED UNIVERSE VERSION THAT COULD HAVE BEEN ENCASED IN THE AMBER.



    No, there isn't. "Red" Bell died in a car crash as a young man, before he even met Walternate ( Bell said that in "Over there" ). No reason to think it changed with the timeline reboot.

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  • Avatar of buildam2005

    buildam2005

    [41]Apr 23, 2012
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    Ah. That is something I did not recall. My apologies, then.

    However, that still doesn't mean that the blue universe Bell is necessarily dead--perhaps the one mentioned in early season four was the young man version of William Bell? Who knows. Point is, I doubt the writers would have forgotten that plot point. They know what's going on.

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