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FOX (ended 2013)

Official Discussion Thread: Stowaway (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of Merlin4421

    Merlin4421

    [41]Mar 21, 2011
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    Hungry_Homer111 wrote:
    RKron wrote:
    Second comment: WATCH FRINGE LIVE! If you were not aware, Fringe ratings are quite low. Of course, it's on a friday slot, but if you are a fan, please plan ahead and make an effort to watch live on friday: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=137291516340511
    Unless you have a Nielsen box, it doesn't matter if you watch it live or don't watch it at all. They only count the people who have those, and it supposedly represents everybody who watches the show. Though I seriously question how accurate that method could be...


    We all knew this was coming friday is where fox puts shows to die. It really sux for such a great show. I agree the neilsen system is archaic and just a complete wrong method for accurate ratings....I really can't believe there isnt a better way in this day and age to get the ratings.

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    orionway

    [42]Mar 21, 2011
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    There is a creator, the universe is just too orderly and structured... but, by definition, GOD, is beyond our comprehension/understanding... therefore, all religions are **** Just mans attempt to understand infinity... we can't, but we can assume that whatever created the universe (i.e. everything) won't like us tearing it up and mangling it, poisoning it, marring it, damaging it in any unnecessary ways. So, creating these weak spots in two universes, will undoubtedly piss off at least two GODS, one for each universe? Or, just One GOD, who created both universes, and therefore probably all the others in the multiverse?

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    orionway

    [43]Mar 21, 2011
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    in answer to merlin, there is definitely a better way to get ratings, by counting the people watching the show live through their digital cable and satellite boxes... both systems can report back to the home office what people watched at home... i just don't think that the tv show producers trust the cable and satellite companies not to lie to them about the results... too much cross pollination between the big companies to trust each other fully...

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    Shreela

    [44]Mar 21, 2011
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    Only Peter can trigger that machine, so of course Bell wants Peter to drink the tea, so Bell can take over Peter's body, then control the machine.
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  • Avatar of fringelover

    fringelover

    [45]Mar 22, 2011
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    Hungry_Homer111 wrote:
    Princess_Pinky wrote:


    sramv9 wrote:
    This is what I'm wondering about too. I guess I wonder, did the writers paint Bell one way (more noble, gracious, as played by Nemoy) and then change their mind and paint Bell somewhat differently (more dirty old man style, as played by Torv) OR is this what the writers always had in mind, i.e., that they would show one side of him and then later show another....


    If they wanted Nemoy to play Bell in the way Bellivia is acting, they could have but they didn't. I reeeeeaaally wonder if the original bell and tea scene were intended at the time to be about soul magnets or if they added that in later. That Bell is just so incongruous with this Bell.



    I've been wondering this as well. Glad to know I'm not the only one who's tossing this around. I'm kind of leaning towards the idea that they didn't have the Bellivia thing in mind when they wrote this, but that could just very well be me wanting to think that, since I quite liked Bell.

    I saw this idea before this episode, and it stuck with me, and I just checked the DVDs to see if it makes sense. Back in the episode "Momentum Deferred," when Olivia remembered her meeting with Bell, there were certain skips in her memory. In order to explain this, he said "You're still a little disoriented from the time slips, aren't you? Happened to me when I first came here." However, this is an effect that I don't think has been seen since (unless I'm forgetting something) - not when the team crossed over at the end of season 2, nor with the other Olivia coming over to our universe. That's part did stick out to me when I rewatched the episode, so I did think it was a possible explanation even before we heard about the tea. Now that we've heard that part of it, and I rewatched the scene with that in mind, I'd have to say it makes sense. The first time she experienced on of those lapses in time/memory, right before it, she said "I don't want any tea!" The time jumps, and she finds herself with the tea in her hand...


    So are you saying that the tea caused the lapses in memory....? I always thought that her being disoriented was because she was pulled over by Bell, she did not cross on her own. That's the way I explain in my own mind why no one else has been disoriented...or we were not shown that. We were shown that Walternate need help after he crossed the first time. I also thought part of the disorientation was having the accident when she returned and being in the tank.


    As far as the episode goes, I too am dissappointed we didn't get any answers or back story. If you add up the amount of time we've seen Bell in the past 3 seasons, it's small as compared to our main characters, so we don't have a good read on who he really is. His consciousness has been floating around for about a year...so being able to once again communicate, be human again, we're seeing other parts of his personallity. The last 2 times we've seen him, he's been on a mission...working so to speak...so now we're seeing him back with Walter after having his consciousness floating in the universes...and he's acting differently than we've seen him before. In a way it's kinda like last week when we saw Olivia & Peter being a couple. It is very different that what we're used to....a new side to the character. As to why he is being portrayed this way...we'll have to wait and see. Though I did likeseeing Walter with more confidence.


    I like our Lincoln, he can join the team and things will be good. (My opinion!)


    With the Bell comment that he's lived a long time, it made me wonder if he's somehow related to the "first people". Was he collecting the books to research or keep them out of "certain" hands?


    The comment about Fate to Peter.....Dana changed her mind and decided to save the people, and in turn received what she wanted - death.

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  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [47]Mar 22, 2011
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    fringelover wrote:


    So are you saying that the tea caused the lapses in memory....? I always thought that her being disoriented was because she was pulled over by Bell, she did not cross on her own. That's the way I explain in my own mind why no one else has been disoriented...or we were not shown that. We were shown that Walternate need help after he crossed the first time. I also thought part of the disorientation was having the accident when she returned and being in the tank.



    As I said in my post, Bell said that he experienced the same thing when he crossed over. So the accident doesn't have anything to do with it. Also, I believe that Bell went to the other side on his own terms, so it wasn't that which would cause it. So either he lied, or I'm missing something important about the effects of crossing over, and why that happened for them, and not others. But considering the fact that he said he put the soul magnet into the tea, it is interesting to know that the time/memory skips started around the time she drank the tea.


    As for Dana Gray's death, I have come up with my own theory, outside of the "destiny" theory that Bell presented. Earlier in the episode, they came up with the idea of hera "soul vampire," who steals the souls of the dead. However, once they realized that she wanted to die, this idea was pretty much tossed out. However, I think there was some truth to it, and that whenever she's near somebody who dies, she lives. Her family in the accident, the people who committed suicide, etc. She didn't know why she couldn't die, so she took a wild guess at the reason, thinking that she could "hitch a ride" into heaven, but it turned out that that's the exact opposite of what she should have done. Andonce she did move the bomb away from people, so nobody died, that is when she was able to die.

    Edited on 03/22/2011 11:20am
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  • Avatar of fringelover

    fringelover

    [48]Mar 22, 2011
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    Hungry_Homer111 wrote:


    fringelover wrote:


    So are you saying that the tea caused the lapses in memory....? I always thought that her being disoriented was because she was pulled over by Bell, she did not cross on her own. That's the way I explain in my own mind why no one else has been disoriented...or we were not shown that. We were shown that Walternate need help after he crossed the first time. I also thought part of the disorientation was having the accident when she returned and being in the tank.



    As I said in my post, Bell said that he experienced the same thing when he crossed over. So the accident doesn't have anything to do with it. Also, I believe that Bell went to the other side on his own terms, so it wasn't that which would cause it. So either he lied, or I'm missing something important about the effects of crossing over, and why that happened for them, and not others. But considering the fact that he said he put the soul magnet into the tea, it is interesting to know that the time/memory skips started around the time she drank the tea.


    As for Dana Gray's death, I have come up with my own theory, outside of the "destiny" theory that Bell presented. Earlier in the episode, they came up with the idea of hera "soul vampire," who steals the souls of the dead. However, once they realized that she wanted to die, this idea was pretty much tossed out. However, I think there was some truth to it, and that whenever she's near somebody who dies, she lives. Her family in the accident, the people who committed suicide, etc. She didn't know why she couldn't die, so she took a wild guess at the reason, thinking that she could "hitch a ride" into heaven, but it turned out that that's the exact opposite of what she should have done. Andonce she did move the bomb away from people, so nobody died, that is when she was able to die.



    OK, I've got it...sorry, my mind was being dense....thank you for clarifying it....


    As a side note and just a personal observation ofmine...it's interesting how crossing over effects people differently...is it based on how they cross over coupled with who they are (their personal phsyiology)?


    About Dana....does that correspond to Bell's observation that the farther away you get from your fate the more likely you are to be on fates doorstep?

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  • Avatar of Merlin4421

    Merlin4421

    [49]Mar 23, 2011
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    orionway wrote:


    in answer to merlin, there is definitely a better way to get ratings, by counting the people watching the show live through their digital cable and satellite boxes... both systems can report back to the home office what people watched at home... i just don't think that the tv show producers trust the cable and satellite companies not to lie to them about the results... too much cross pollination between the big companies to trust each other fully...



    Yah I just read an article. It isnt so much the tv shows actual ratings they use to cancel or renew a show. Nielsen records the tv ad ratings for each show as well. So the better ratings the shows commercials get the better its chances of being renewed.It even knows if you fast forward. BUT Nielsen is still innaccurate with its small number of nielsen families that represent us all, and they know they are part of it so it affects what they watch.

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    DeodatusGirl

    [50]Mar 23, 2011
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    [QUOTE] Only Peter can trigger that machine, so of course Bell wants Peter to drink the tea, so Bell can take over Peter's body, then control the machine. [QUOTE]


    OMW that's genius, how did I not think of that? i hope it doesn't happen thought I'll hate the writters -and Bell- for it!

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    dif_frent

    [51]Mar 23, 2011
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    Great acting by Anna Torv again, although playing alter-Olivia must be more challenging. Olivias have to be quite similar, yet different, Beautifully played scenes of Bell-Olivia and Walter working together -- that happiness on thier faces.

    When Bell says, "I'm afraid it's a little bit more complicated than I thought," I feel he means that it won't be as easy to leave Olivia's body as he thought.
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    BarryWeen3

    [52]Mar 23, 2011
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    dif_frent wrote:
    Great acting by Anna Torv again, although playing alter-Olivia must be more challenging. Olivias have to be quite similar, yet different, Beautifully played scenes of Bell-Olivia and Walter working together -- that happiness on thier faces. When Bell says, "I'm afraid it's a little bit more complicated than I thought," I feel he means that it won't be as easy to leave Olivia's body as he thought.


    See, I saw that last scene as referring to the fact that the church bells caused Bell to momentarily leave Olivia's body. I'm assuming that Bell thought he specifically set up the soul magnets to react to the specific frequency of the ringing of the bell he left to Nina Sharp. And that he was suprised when the ringing of the church bells pushed him out of Olivia's body.

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    kanniballl

    [54]Mar 24, 2011
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    Hungry_Homer111 wrote:


    ...


    However, I think there was some truth to it, and that whenever she's near somebody who dies, she lives. Her family in the accident, the people who committed suicide, etc. She didn't know why she couldn't die, so she took a wild guess at the reason, thinking that she could "hitch a ride" into heaven, but it turned out that that's the exact opposite of what she should have done. Andonce she did move the bomb away from people, so nobody died, that is when she was able to die.



    A valid point.


    While I would imagine that she would've tried attempting it solo before getting other people involved, I don't recall any lines from the episode stating whether or not that was the case. It might've been that she got the hitch-hiking idea very early. But I don't think we got much back-story from her point of view other than her motives.


    I doubt religion prevented her from committing suicide solo since she was fine doing it with someone else. If she cared about suicide being a sin then she wouldn't trust hitch-hiking to someone else that just comitted suicide because she might not go to heaven. For example: many Catholics believe suicide is a mortal sin and an instant-ticket to heck, as bad as murder and such.




    Bell's Destiny thing seemed fine, but a little self-serving since it seems like the whole episode he's trying to convince Peter that he might have to go through with the machine.




    Another theory, though a bit religious. She saw herself as being inpurgatory, perhaps saving all of those people from the bomb at the sacrifice of (what she believed to be) a solid chance was enough to let her go to heaven? Either literally / religiously, or some mental component that enabled her to "let go" and die.



    Edited on 03/24/2011 7:37am
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    kanniballl

    [55]Mar 24, 2011
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    What concerned me about the final scene wasn't so much that Bell stated things might be complicated, but Olivia's reaction. Bell and Walter said that she was in a dormant state, like she was asleep, but her reaction was less like waking up from a dream and more like awaking from something tortorous... perhaps even more-so than a nightmare.


    Perhaps the "dormant" personality isn't as serene as Bell had hoped.

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    fringelover

    [56]Mar 24, 2011
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    kanniballl wrote:


    What concerned me about the final scene wasn't so much that Bell stated things might be complicated, but Olivia's reaction. Bell and Walter said that she was in a dormant state, like she was asleep, but her reaction was less like waking up from a dream and more like awaking from something tortorous... perhaps even more-so than a nightmare.


    Perhaps the "dormant" personality isn't as serene as Bell had hoped.



    I took it more as Olivia was surprised/confused, but you could be reading it correctly.


    Ialso think that the church bells were signaling a switch, and Bell's soul had to take control - again.


    Edited on 03/24/2011 10:27am
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    historylover20

    [58]Mar 24, 2011
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    fringelover wrote:


    kanniballl wrote:


    What concerned me about the final scene wasn't so much that Bell stated things might be complicated, but Olivia's reaction. Bell and Walter said that she was in a dormant state, like she was asleep, but her reaction was less like waking up from a dream and more like awaking from something tortorous... perhaps even more-so than a nightmare.


    Perhaps the "dormant" personality isn't as serene as Bell had hoped.



    I took it more as Olivia was surprised/confused, but you could be reading it correctly.


    Ialso think that the church bells were signaling a switch, and Bell's soul had to take control - again.




    I agree that she was more surprised/confused. I mean, she could have been terrified and gone through hell, but I read it as her reaction that she was JUST in Peter's lab, and now she's in the Bishops' kitchen. What happened? How did she get there?


    Because she says, "Peter? Wha....?" before Bell takes back over. I took it to mean "Peter? Wha(t am I doing here)?"


    Kat

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    lancerino

    [59]Mar 25, 2011
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    sramv9 wrote:


    kanniballl wrote:



    Bell's Destiny thing seemed fine, but a little self-serving since it seems like the whole episode he's trying to convince Peter that he might have to go through with the machine.


    It did seem that way, so my question is, why would it serve Bell for Peter to go into the machine?




    I had a theory i was discussing with friends a couple of days ago. If Peter chooses alt-olivia he would go to the other universe and get into the alt-machine wich would destroy our universe and fix the other one. If he chooses our Olivia he would get into our machine destroying the alt-universe and fixing ours. If you take this into consideration then it would make sense for Bell to want Peter to get into our machine. It would also make sense for Bell want to "posses" Peter and be able to save our universe as he might be indefferent to the emotional love triangle. This makes Bells Teaoffer to Peter alot creepier than it allready is :S

    Edited on 03/25/2011 5:34pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    danharr

    [60]Mar 28, 2011
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    Good episode the Bellivia thing being the main draw the case was interesting I was floored by how selfish that woman was going to take a whole train with her. I agree with the theory that she had to die alone to die and the ringing bell thing I doubt is a big deal just a red herring he didn't know any bell would dislodge him from Olivia.

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