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ABC (ended 1995)

Michelle's disappearing rude language (esp. calling adults "dude")

Why'd Michelle stop calling the adults "dude," saying "duh," etc.

  • Avatar of dtf955

    dtf955

    [1]Apr 23, 2007
    • member since: 06/17/05
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    You know, one of the biggest problems with sassiness is I can't detect it unless it's really bad. Nor can I detect sarcasm at all. It's just a normal tone of voice to me - I have to look at what someone says to know what's being said. I can't pick up every little nuance some people detect. (And, sometimes in normal conversation, people are imagining thigns that might not be there.)

    That has nothing to do with punishing Michelle for diving into the samples (which i showed earlier had to have been done) or other things where it's clear she would have been much, much worse at age 2 and 3 and gotten into much more without it. Why didn't Michelle color on walls any other times after that time in Beach Boy Bingo? The house would have been a big mess in later season 2 if D.J. didn't stop that. *This* is something anyone D.J.'s age - or even Steph's - would see that something has to be done and punish her. Or, at least, put her in timeout - if it's just one minute per age, and Danny ups it to 5-7 minutes in the corner, that's going from mere timeout to punishing. (Little kids punish dolls when playing house, after all.)

    Yes, D.J.'s actions could be just the "I'm looking out for you" type, but let's not forget, there has to be some explanation here, and making a 2YO sit in timeout when they get into cleaning supplies *is* looking out for them. Not every child does that, but some do.

     If - *if* - one argues that D.J. did the bare minimum, telling Michelle to sit on a "naughty step" for a couple minutes for something really bad at age 2 and 3, and had to do that maybe a dozen times as a reaction ove rthose 2 years, that would be a plausible explanation. Hey, I'll give you that *Steph* could have done that; as I say, girls punish dolls like that.

    However, that's reacting, not being proactive. I can see what a few others have said about D.J. not correcting every little sassy thing when they're alone - but I also think the writers only have limited time to show that it could have happened. She *never* calls the others "dude" after season 4. (And never says "duh" after season 5, I don't think.) Children don't just decide to get out of a bad habit like that. Someone has to at least tell them it's wrong, even if they're the kind who just automatically listen to that. (And, I see one case where D.J. is letting Michelle say "duh" and might be giving her a look like, "Okay, I'm ignoring you, but you know better, and if this keeps up, no dessert tonight." It's in "Take My Sister, Please." I do know some parents who allow a little, and are like, "Okay, get it out of your system, but you know better. I expect that to be *it*".)

    So, which of these do you think happens?

    1. The problem with telling her this in a reverse psychology way would be that she had also pick it up from somewhere, and Jese's band seems the likely culprits. Still, he could tell his band to stop, and they'd probably try, too.

    2. Were the Tanners the kind to use sticker charts like that? it's a proven method to some, it accentuates positive behavior in whatever they want to encourage in those cases. However, we never see *any* indication of this, nor hear any mention. Yet, there would be an extra wall in every room which we can't see becasue of cameras, and if Michelle wouldn't keep adding stickers, and if a certain bad behvior still means punishment, and if Danny sought advice for how to correct because he didn't want to punish Michelle when she was 2...I don't know, some of you might agree with it, and it could explain discipline, too, and something had to happen all the other time we don't see. I just wonder about those ifs,, though it could be just for that talk.

    3. Stephanie does correct Michelle clearly a couple times. In "Silence is Not Golen," she correct Michelle for calling Danny mean for punishing her. In "Girls Just Wanna have Fun," she tells the story of the boy who cried wolf, and then tricks Michelle to teach her a lesson about lying. Maybe Michelle gets tired of that - she can ramble like Danny, after all.

    4. As noted in the "Take My Sister, Please" example, D.J. might give her more leeway, not wanting to bother, but yet correct it offscreen, saying something like, "Okay, that's enough!" this would only work if two things were true. Michelle was very docile and didn't test the rules much. The first I can see, not so sure about the second, but maybe. She didn't say bad words, so, yeah, I can see it. And, D.J. giving a little leeway could also be part of her just not being proactive, figuring, "She's not hurting anyone like if she dives into samples, then I have to react somehow."

    5. This, of course, would be reacting still, and if D.J. had permission to do this, then yes. I think she did, but as they say on some parenting groups when discussing discilpine methods, YMMV. (Your mileage may vary.)

    I'm willing to admit that D.J. is much more of a mother figure in books - I always have. That's being proactive versus reacting; and, i know of cases where girls of 10 have taken on that role, though it's rare.  (Remember, this is D.J. we're talking about - a girl who generally is very mature. And even with that, I posit some decision made in church or something)

    Michelle's never rude like that in books - maybe a touch wilder showing some are TV Universe, but that's neither here nor there. The important thing is,  something had to stop some of her rude talk on TV - what was it?

    Edited on 04/23/2007 6:30am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of Drewchic

    Drewchic

    [2]Apr 23, 2007
    • member since: 07/09/06
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 630
    dtf955 wrote:

    You know, one of the biggest problems with sassiness is I can't detect it unless it's really bad. Nor can I detect sarcasm at all. It's just a normal tone of voice to me - I have to look at what someone says to know what's being said. I can't pick up every little nuance some people detect. (And, sometimes in normal conversation, people are imagining thigns that might not be there.)

    That has nothing to do with punishing Michelle for diving into the samples (which i showed earlier had to have been done) or other things where it's clear she would have been much, much worse at age 2 and 3 and gotten into much more without it. Why didn't Michelle color on walls any other times after that time in Beach Boy Bingo? The house would have been a big mess in later season 2 if D.J. didn't stop that. *This* is something anyone D.J.'s age - or even Steph's - would see that something has to be done and punish her. Or, at least, put her in timeout - if it's just one minute per age, and Danny ups it to 5-7 minutes in the corner, that's going from mere timeout to punishing. (Little kids punish dolls when playing house, after all.)

    Yes, D.J.'s actions could be just the "I'm looking out for you" type, but let's not forget, there has to be some explanation here, and making a 2YO sit in timeout when they get into cleaning supplies *is* looking out for them. Not every child does that, but some do.

     If - *if* - one argues that D.J. did the bare minimum, telling Michelle to sit on a "naughty step" for a couple minutes for something really bad at age 2 and 3, and had to do that maybe a dozen times as a reaction ove rthose 2 years, that would be a plausible explanation. Hey, I'll give you that *Steph* could have done that; as I say, girls punish dolls like that.

    However, that's reacting, not being proactive. I can see what a few others have said about D.J. not correcting every little sassy thing when they're alone - but I also think the writers only have limited time to show that it could have happened. She *never* calls the others "dude" after season 4. (And never says "duh" after season 5, I don't think.) Children don't just decide to get out of a bad habit like that. Someone has to at least tell them it's wrong, even if they're the kind who just automatically listen to that. (And, I see one case where D.J. is letting Michelle say "duh" and might be giving her a look like, "Okay, I'm ignoring you, but you know better, and if this keeps up, no dessert tonight." It's in "Take My Sister, Please." I do know some parents who allow a little, and are like, "Okay, get it out of your system, but you know better. I expect that to be *it*".)

    So, which of these do you think happens?

    1. The problem with telling her this in a reverse psychology way would be that she had also pick it up from somewhere, and Jese's band seems the likely culprits. Still, he could tell his band to stop, and they'd probably try, too.

    2. Were the Tanners the kind to use sticker charts like that? it's a proven method to some, it accentuates positive behavior in whatever they want to encourage in those cases. However, we never see *any* indication of this, nor hear any mention. Yet, there would be an extra wall in every room which we can't see becasue of cameras, and if Michelle wouldn't keep adding stickers, and if a certain bad behvior still means punishment, and if Danny sought advice for how to correct because he didn't want to punish Michelle when she was 2...I don't know, some of you might agree with it, and it could explain discipline, too, and something had to happen all the other time we don't see. I just wonder about those ifs,, though it could be just for that talk.

    3. Stephanie does correct Michelle clearly a couple times. In "Silence is Not Golen," she correct Michelle for calling Danny mean for punishing her. In "Girls Just Wanna have Fun," she tells the story of the boy who cried wolf, and then tricks Michelle to teach her a lesson about lying. Maybe Michelle gets tired of that - she can ramble like Danny, after all.

    4. As noted in the "Take My Sister, Please" example, D.J. might give her more leeway, not wanting to bother, but yet correct it offscreen, saying something like, "Okay, that's enough!" this would only work if two things were true. Michelle was very docile and didn't test the rules much. The first I can see, not so sure about the second, but maybe. She didn't say bad words, so, yeah, I can see it. And, D.J. giving a little leeway could also be part of her just not being proactive, figuring, "She's not hurting anyone like if she dives into samples, then I have to react somehow."

    5. This, of course, would be reacting still, and if D.J. had permission to do this, then yes. I think she did, but as they say on some parenting groups when discussing discilpine methods, YMMV. (Your mileage may vary.)

    I'm willing to admit that D.J. is much more of a mother figure in books - I always have. That's being proactive versus reacting; and, i know of cases where girls of 10 have taken on that role, though it's rare.  (Remember, this is D.J. we're talking about - a girl who generally is very mature. And even with that, I posit some decision made in church or something)

    Michelle's never rude like that in books - maybe a touch wilder showing some are TV Universe, but that's neither here nor there. The important thing is,  something had to stop some of her rude talk on TV - what was it?

    I think it was Stephanie well I think she did a good job with her I mean (specifically with the Silence Is Not Golden episode...kudos to her!) for those two occasions that you mentioned and for a few more without Stephanie but Danny or Jesse or Joey in charge.
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  • Avatar of dtf955

    dtf955

    [3]Apr 24, 2007
    • member since: 06/17/05
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    Yes, I go with what I know psychologically to be necessary as far as limit setting even witht he best kids - hence I say the bare minimum above, an average of once a month or so with some form of punishment, be it timeout or revoked privileges or whatever, more of that in the "Terrible Twos." That was necessary for someone to have done for the concept of right and wrong to be established. And, psychologically, it's easier for the oldest sibling, and it usually is her. (It's probably less common for a different sibling to do it as it is for a 10YO to go above and beyond such reacting - and D.J. is more mature, so I go with the odds as far as what happened offscreen.)

    But, this is less important. It's not something D.J. would have had to do, or tha someone would have to have punished for. It all depends on the kid.

    BTW, I just thought of something - how long do girls play with dolls normally? Steph could have longer because of Michelle - she still had "baby stuff" dolls iafter the wedding, when jesse and Becky move back in. And, that could be a subtle clue it was her timing out Michelle.

    However, as I said, such reacting is not being proactive,a nd hence it is not going above and beyond to be a mother figure like in books. It's more a case where the older sibling would lecture/punish, and the little one, after it's over, would mutter something like, "Can you go back to just bein' my sister now?"
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  • Avatar of Tippa-

    Tippa-

    [4]Aug 9, 2008
    • member since: 08/05/08
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