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Game of Thrones S04E03: "Breaker of Chains"

Okay so maybe "Breaker of Chains" didn't involve a jerkface king being murdered or a tree giving away spoilers for future seasons of Game of Thrones, but it was still top-notch entertainment and proved that no one is making a better show featuring guys in armor and dresses than D.B. Weiss and David Benioff. And beyond that, it added another layer to the series' complex structure. In addition to being a soap opera about dysfunctional families, softcore porn for the kiddies, a fashion show for Renaissance Faire enthusiasts, and inspiration for LARPers everywhere, Game of Thrones is now a bona fide murder mystery! Who killed King Joffrey!?!? That appears to be the main story for at least this first half of Season 4, and I'm really digging it because it's very well put together with a multitude of possible suspects. I mean, everyone hates Joffrey, right?  

Gather your army of kuh-nigguts, folks, and let's discuss what happened in "Breaker of Chains."



"Money buys a man's silence for a time; a bolt in the heart buys it forever." —Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish

Oh Sansa, she's been in the wrong place at the wrong time for as long as we've known her. Given that Joffrey had her dad beheaded, killed her dog, and was partially responsible for the deaths of her mother, brother, sister-in-law, and unborn niece/nephew), Law & Order: Westeros rules say that she's the prime suspect in the murder of Joffrey thanks to a little thing called motive. And since Ser Dontos the Boozy whisked her away right after Joffrey choked, to some folks, she's looking pretty guilty. Getting as far away from King's Landing as possible is imperative for Sansa whether she knows it or not (she really has that deer-in-the-headlights look when it comes to anything more serious than teen crushes), and luckily for her, Dontos rowed her out to a ship in Blackwater Bay captained by... LITTLEFINGER. *DUN DUN*

Well isn't that peculiar!? Littlefinger just happened to show up to sail Sansa away the minute that Joffrey bit it? Sounds like we have a new suspect, and knowing Littlefinger's propensity for pulling strings from the other side of the continent, him being involved in Joffrey's demise would not surprise me. But what does he have to gain from Joffrey's death other than a chance to take advantage of the ensuing chaos? Not much, but Littlefinger loves chaos. 

Now we have to ask the question of whether or not Sansa is in better hands, given the way Littlefinger was creepily close-talking at her and brushing his disgusting, pencil-thin mustache hairs against Sansa's ear while saying, "You're safe with me, we're sailing home." Home? Where? To the Eyrie? Bleh! That place sucks and is ruled by a crazy lady and her weird little boy. As the last known living member of the Stark family, poor Sansa is just a pawn in this game, and it seems like Littlefinger is trying to rope Sansa into his ladder-climbing plans once again. 



"It's all relatively straightforward." —Tywin Lannister

Oh my gosh this scene, you guys! This was so good. First of all, Joffrey's corpse was laid out like a buffet spread with those creepy eye stones that we last saw on Jon Arryn in the first episode of the series. (Did we ever see Robert Baratheon with them? I can't recall, but I don't think we did.) Second of all, the look on Tommen's face when he realized that he would be upped to the position of king was so good. He doesn't even want to be the king, you can totally tell. Third, Tywin was already reaching so far up Tommen's rectum to start controlling him before Joffrey's corpse was even cold. Tywin essentially told Tommen that the key to being a good king was to listen to his council (led by Tywin as Hand of the King) and nod his head. But my favorite part was when Tywin told Tommen that Tommen had to further the family line. "Do you know how that happens?" he asked. Tommen pretended to know, and Tywin said, "It's all relatively straightforward." Can you imagine getting a birds-and-the-bees speech from Tywin Lannister? What would that sound like? Probably something like this:

"Well, grandson, first you find a suitable wealthy woman to be your bride. And on the night of your wedding day, if you aren't poisoned first, you take her to your bedchamber and you remove her garments. Then you do whatever it takes for you to get aroused—I like to gut a stag, crush the will of my enemies, or gently gyrate my groin against a pile of gold coins. After that, you sheath and unsheath your sword for about 12 seconds, and nine months later, you have an heir. Unless it's a girl, in which case you kill her and try again. Good luck!" 


Have you noticed that the only person who cares that Joffrey is dead is Cersei? Joffrey must've had a 0.00001 percent approval rating. Tywin was pretty comfortable with the fact that his grandson was dead, and Jaime didn't care at all that he'd lost a son. In fact, Jaime almost seemed invigorated by Joffrey's death, which led to what I think was the most disgusting, morally corrupt, and upsetting scene in all of Game of Thrones' history. Jaime raped his sister next to the death display of their son born out of incest. When horrible, terrible acts like rape and incest aren't the most depraved aspects of a scene—that designation belongs to getting it on beneath your dead kid—you know it's a real gem. It's just too bad they didn't bump the table hard enough for Joffrey's limp corpse to fall down and join the action. I still feel filthy just knowing that I saw Jaime thrust himself into Cersei while their incest lovechild's corpse lay nearby. So gross, Game of Thrones. So gross. 

Tywin would later continue cementing his mastery over everyone with a drop-in on Oberyn. Yeah, he interrupted an orgy, but talking to Tywin is more important than any orgy. Tywin cut Oberyn a deal: If Oberyn joins the judges' table against Tyrion and sits on the kings small council, he'll get to chat with the Mountain, the man who killed Oberyn's sister. And as a result, Tywin earns the trust of Dorne. It's a big step to take for Tywin, but Tywin's game is to cycle through allegiances until he finds one that works. 



"Pod, this is farewell." —Tyrion Lannister

For Tyrion, it was back into a jail cell after being accused of crimes he never committed, which he's no stranger to, but boy was his situation sad. And it got even sadder when Pod showed up to share the latest news: Sansa's missing, someone wants Pod to testify against Tyrion, and everyone thinks Tyrion killed Joffrey. Tyrion stated the obvious—that if he'd been the one who killed Joffrey, it would've been the dumbest murder plot in the history of murders, seeing as though he would've killed the most (in)famous man in Westeros in front of hundreds of witnesses. But then he floated another idea, that Tywin killed his own grandchild because the kid was difficult to puppeteer, so let's add Tywin to the list of suspects. And in case you haven't noticed, Tywin will do just about ANYTHING to make sure he's the one who's actually controlling the Seven Kingdoms, regardless of who's sitting the Iron Throne.

But this scene was all about Pod. He's a terrific kid, that Podrick Payne. He not only smuggled in some sausage for Tyrion (perhaps he hid it behind his own legendary sausage), but he refused to accept instant knighthood—every boy's dream—in exchange for testifying against Tyrion, and he put his own life in danger because he's loyal to the Imp. "Pod, there has never lived a more loyal squire," Tyrion said, and a salty drop of sensitive liquid emotion fell from my eye. Pod may be the only genuinely good person on this show.


"Raper, raper, horse thief, ninth-born son, raper, thief, thief and a raper." —Guy listing off the crimes committed by members of the Night's Watch

There's a reason they don't let women join the Night's Watch, and it has nothing to do with gender biases or stereotypes. It's that 99 percent of the guys who patrol the Wall are serial rapists who would drop their swords and immediately go into rape mode at the sight of a woman. So I was kind of on Samwell's side when he told Gilly that Castle Black, or Fort Rape, isn't the safest place for her to be. But I was kind of on Gilly's side when she turned up her nose at the craphole of a town Sam took her to for her own well-being. That's just how Game of Thrones is. A whorehouse where people drool over babies is actually the preferred hideout for a woman and her little guy! What's the better call here if you're Sam—is it to keep Gilly at Castle Black, where he can at least keep an eye on her himself? Or is it to abandon her in a pleasure house, where she's all alone? Sam means well, but I think leaving Gilly was a bad call. He's the only person in the world who cares about her, and he just put a lot of distance between Gilly and his protective eye. Sam, if the next time you see her she's wearing stripper heels and being shadowed by some big guy in a direwolf-fur hat named Luscious Leon, it's your fault.

Nearby, in a village full of peaceful artisan potato-boilers, Ygritte and her gang of Wildlings and cannibalistic Thenn decided that killing everyone in sight was a great way to get the attention of the Night's Watch. It was a good plan, because boiled spuds thrown by noodle-armed farmers are no match for warriors who are professional murderers—and the result was an outright slaughter. Like, we're talking the Game of Thrones version of the Harlem Globetrotters versus the Washington Generals. And I'm sorry, but anytime a scary bald guy tells a kid, "I'm going to eat your dead mama, and I'm going to eat your dead papa, now go tell Castle Black," I shed a tear of happiness. I love the Thenn. I loved this scene. Does that make me a jerk? Maybe. 

When Castle Black got word of what'd happened, the response was pretty much as expected. Some called for retaliation, but the wiser members of the group knew it they'd be walking into trap intended thin out their forces. You see, Mance Rayder still thinks the Wall is populated by thousands of men, when really it's much less. So when Grenn and Dolorous Edd returned from the carnage of the mutiny up at Craster's Keep to let Castle Black know that a bunch of defectors were still chillin' at Craster's, it meant the Night's Watch was screwed because Mance would find the defectors, torture them, and get the truth: Castle Black is ripe for the taking. And then the Wildling army will march south and destroy everything. Add that to the list of things that could go terribly wrong for everybody in this godforsaken world! 



"You're the worst shit in the Seven Kingdoms." —Arya

Of all the odd-couple pairings on this show, Arya and the Hound consistently rank near the top. They're both fiercely stubborn in their own ways of thinking, and they both know how to deliver a good insult. They're like two Jewish grandmothers, basically, and whenever they share the screen, it's gold. When you think about it, they haven't even done anything except ride around the countryside beating people up and changing their minds about what they should be doing, and it's been much more entertaining than Dany's forever-long side story of freeing slaves. 

We got to see each person's point of view when a humble man and his puny daughter who couldn't even lift a bale of hay (hit the weight room, little girl!) offered to take them in and feed them in exchange for protection and some help with the yardwork. The Hound agreed to "a fair wage for a fair job," and then as soon as the guy's back was turned, the Hound bopped him on the head and robbed him. Classic Hound. Arya was very disappointed in her surrogate dad, and the Hound had to deliver some tough love and hard truths: Everyone who doesn't have a name on this show is definitely going to die, so the no-name farmer guy had no need for his silver coins, and it's time Arya realized that. It's every Hound for himself. Could this be the incident that finally breaks these two up? Arya is no dummy, and I'm betting her storyline with the Hound will soon come to an end.


"If I do not press my claim, my claim will be forgotten. I will not become a page in someone else's history book." —Stannis Baratheon

Not much to report from Dragonstone this week. Stannis informed Davos that Joffrey was dead, and that now's the time for him to make a run at the Iron Throne—except he needs Davos to get him an army first. Later, Davos had a reading lesson from Shireen, and in the middle of whining about the difference between a pirate and a smuggler, a lightbulb sparked on over his head and he came up with an idea: Write a letter to the powerful and wealthy leaders of Braavosi under the guise of Stannis. Why is he doing this? I'm not sure. Stannis needs men, but he doesn't want to pay sellswords, so maybe Davos is recruiting folks who don't want money, but who could use a foot in the door with the the future powerful King of Westeros. I honestly don't know what Davos is up to.



"He claims you are no woman at all, but a man who has his cock in his own asshole." —Missandei, translating for some chump

The sexy platinum blonde Abraham Lincoln of Essos continued her slave-freeing rampage through violence and bloodshed, this week setting her sights on Meereen, a city that had never bothered Dany but that deserved to be sieged because its foreign culture frightened her. Okay, that's a bit extreme, but I think I speak for most when I say that Dany should spend more time finding a boat that accepts dragons as passengers and less time dragging hundreds of people miles through the deserts of Essos. 

At least her opening salvo on Meereen was cool. Meereen sent out its champion, and all of Dany's sycophantic lapdogs—Ser Jorah, Ser Barristan, Grey Worm, and Daario—volunteered to kill this man in Dany's honor. Dany said no to Jorah, Barristan, and Grey Worm because she felt they were too valuable to her, but allowed Daario to take on the fight. If I'm Daario, my feelings are hurt a bit, especially since I've been kicking my best game to Dany. And how did she repay Daario's masterful flirting? By essentially telling him that it wouldn't be so bad if he died. Ouch! Rayna James would've NEVER treated him like that. Daario killed the guy by knifing his horse first, which I think goes against the unwritten rules of noble combat, but hey, this is Essos, where peeing on the ground in front of thousands of people is met with cheers. 

But that was just the undercard to the main event. Once the noggin of the champion of Meereen had been sufficiently separated from his body, Dany ordered a bunch of catapults (HOLY CRAP WHEN DID SHE GET CATAPULTS and how did they get those catapults across that narrow mountain pass?) to shoot some heavy-handed metaphors at the walls of the city. As the barrels crashed into buildings, broken slave collars rained down from their splintered remains in the most complicated message ever sent. It was totally badass and worth it, though I would've been even less subtle. I would have catapulted the corpses of slavers over the wall, but hey, that's just me! Will the slaves of Meereen revolt now that Dany has put so much effort into heavily symbolic warfare? Let's hope not, because you and I both know that what we really want to see is Dany's dragons setting the whole damn place on fire. 



WEEKLY POWER RANKINGS

Each week, I'll rank the episodes of Season 4 from best to worst. But remember, these are just my opinions! Feel free to post your own in the comments!

This week: "The Lion and the Rose" was a tough act to follow, but "Breaker of Chains" did an admirable job of defining what this season is about—a murder mystery.

1. "The Lion and the Rose" (Episode 2)

2. "Breaker of Chains" (Episode 3)

3. "Two Swords" (Episode 1)



NOTES FROM THE RAVENS

– Based on that quick survey of the Night's Watch, there are a lot of rapists in that club!

– Shireen to Davos: "You won't be a very good Hand if you see the word 'knight' and say 'kuh-niggut.'" Haha.

– Tyrion: "Say what you will of Cersei, she loves her children. She is the only one I'm certain had nothing to do with this murder, which makes it unique as King's Landing murders go."

– Arya was so smart to say that her "dad" fought for the Tullys, as opposed to the Lannisters or the Starks, because who hates a Tully? They're like the Green Party. Nobody worries about the Green Party when Republicans and Democrats are out there ruining the country.

– Did Littlefinger really have to kill Ser Dontos? I guess, but man that's low. What do you think of Littlefinger? Is he a smart player in this game or just a jerk?

– I loved seeing the Queen of Thorns shake off Joffrey's death so easily while sipping on martinis. She really does not give an eff. 

– Ser Davos really hasn't shown much character, but Liam Cunningham was brilliant in that scene with Shireen. So full of life and fun to watch. 


What'd you think of "Breaker of Chains"?


Please, no book spoilers in the comments!


Previously Aired Episode

AIRED ON 6/26/2016

Season 6 : Episode 10

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I'd say the scene also maks the end of the relationship, the "end of the affair" if you will because the only way they've been able to connect in the past is through a sexual manner.

No matter how many differences they may have had - over Bran, Tyrion, Ned, Robert, Jon Arry, etc - Jaime and Cersei could always count on sex to find a common ground.

However, these aren't 2 kids learning to have sex, but 2 experienced lovers that can no longer relate in a sexual manner. It's uncomfortable to watch because they have nothing else to rely on to fix the connection, despite the fact they are brother and sister.
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I want to talk about this "scene", since it seems like everyone else has.

The idea that it's different from the book is probably the only disconcerning part. Aside from that, it seems like every con-goer who has had a discomforting experience in their life (aka all of them) is up in arms over this horrible betrayal.

First of all, the scene still made PLENTY of sense, all in all. Jamie's and Cercei's relationship is complicated. Was what happened disgusting? Yes, but so is a lot of stuff in Westeros, have you not been paying attention the last MANY seasons of the show? This scene is really where people drew the line? I say deal with it. And if you can't, stop watching the show like many threaten to do. Honestly, the scene was not nearly as bad as I anticipated it would be. Cersei told him to stop and struggled, but she still kissed him back, with all that was going on, a grey area rape scene between two characters that have had insane tension (and yes an odd kind of resentment of past taboo loves) actually is perfectly sensible, and having it done in the presence of their dead bastard child only adds to that.

Like I said, the scene, as discomforting as many find it, works on many levels. I'm not sure why they made it "rapier" than it was in the book, but given all that is/was happening, it seemed to make perfect sense that all the built of tension, plus the death of their (horrible) love-child, would lead to something ugly, visceral, savage and likely sexual. Sorry viewers, maybe you'll be able to handle someday that some people do, sadly, get raped (if not gruesomely murdered) in Westeros.
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Just so people understand my meaning, Cercei kissing Jamie back was not a justification, just to show that this rape scene was obviously not even designed to seem one sides, Cersei was an emotional wreck. I'm sure the last thing she wanted was to have sex with Jamie right then and there (or maybe at all), but it's hard to believe that two people who went through what these two characters went through wouldn't still have lingering feelings for each other, and that kind of all came out during the rapey hate copulation they had.

In the end, I think the Hound put it best earlier in the episode (which may have almost been a direct message to people to brace themselves to what was about to come). I forget what the quote was specifically, but he basically informed Aria that Westeros is a very bad place and how bad things are are all relative. The hound was (well is) a monster, but there are worser monsters out there. Even int he grand scheme of things rape in that world doesn't sound so terrible (well maybe it is given it's the most popular crime to wind you up at castle black). Just remember what his older brother (probably) did to Prince Oberon's sister..
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Tywin: "In the east a Targaryen girl has three dragons. Before long she will turn her eyes to Westeros."

Yeah, I wouldn't hold your breath...
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Ugh, I'd forgotten just how little I care about the whole Sam and Gilly thing. I hope she's now staying in that village never to be seen again.
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I think they might cut out that part of the long journey of Sam & Gilly with Maester Aemon in the boat and with the singer! I hope they do!!!
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Jorah's face when Dany refused him to be the champion. "You're my dearest friend". Simultaneously delighted and gutted. I adore Iain Glen!
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Poor dearest friend, maybe if he should find someone his own age. I mean, the Lady Melisandre is single and she has that powerful look about her.
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Friendzoned again! Poor Ser Jorah :)
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Couldn't stop laughing at Joffrey with those eye stones. It was heartbreaking to see Pod and Tyrion say their goodbyes. Daenerys speaking in Valyrian with such authority was badass and sexy!!
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Pod sneaking candles was the sweatest thing ever.
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and the sausage lol
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huge nerdy fangirl of the books and now the show. I think HBO has done a crazy good job of making littlefinger the exact right balance of nice and extremely creepy. those who have read the books know how it all plays out with that crazy hot mess. also, as much as I &3 GOT, I have to agree with Tim. Got mad love for emilia clarke, but i ain't f@*%ing with no Daenerys Targaryen...
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Arya's "Father!" felt so natural, for a millisecond I forgot her mother wasn't burned down with their home while The Hound was fighting for the Tullys.

And damn those Thenn for showing me why the little girl & her father will be dead come winter! I wanted to believe they stand a chance...
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* No, Arya and the Hound haven't been much more interesting than Danerys's current story. The Dany part of this episode was pretty much the only exiting part of the episode. Most of this episode was boring, including the Arya-The Hound scenes.

* Arya currently is far better off with the Hound than the would be on her own. She'd be being extremely stupid to try to abandon him. This episode makes it clear that Arya and the Hound have been pretty much starving.

And Arya does need to "wake up". "Niceness" resulted in Ned Stark dying. "Niceness" resulted in Rob Stark and Catelyn Stark dying. And Arya thinks her other brothers are also dead.

* Dany's army and power is continuing to grow, but her dragons aren't full size yet, she has like one member in the Queensguard, her army are her army because they were former slaves and now they are free and it's assumed part of their loyalty to Dany is because she's the Breaker of Chains, and it doesn't seem Dany currently has a ton of money. She needs money to buy ships and get captains and such.

* Also, the wars in Westeros aren't over it and perhaps it's better to wait to let the families of Weseros continue to kill each other while Dany gains more 'legions', war machines, money, power, and wait for her dragons to continue to grow.

* I was confused by Dany and Dario in their saying Dario was less important. Daario seems to have better advice than Ser Jorah Mormont. And isn't Dario the leader of the Second Sons? Aren't there around 2,000 Second Sons in Dany's army? Someone else could obviously lead the Unsullied. Ser Jorah didn't and doesn't seem to want Dany to have her dragons (because she'd have to more rely on him if she didn't have her dragons). Ser Barristan Selmy while being her Queensguard only comes with himself. He doesn't seem to have much advice for Dany. Daario is the reason Dany conquered that second city.

- It seems Daario threw his knife into the man's chest -- possibly his heart and then decapitated him.

* I assume either Dany wants the slaves to kill the slavers or she's going to enslave the slavers.
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The knife hit the horses head
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Bahaha totally read that Tywin 'birds-and-the-bees' speech in Charles Dance's voice! Nice work!

And now he's changed his face, how much of a badass is Daario Naharis? That knife chucking stunt was straight out of Spartacus. They send a champion, he'll kill him... and his horse... then piss on their arrows.

I was hoping Davos was going to go all pirate and nick one of them minted Braavosi ships... but now he's writing them love letters I hope that means the bankers get stuck between a rock and, well, 3 hungry dragons and an army of warrior slaves. As hot as she is there needs to be a bit more to Daenerys' story than 'wander through the countryside, free MORE slaves, rinse, repeat'.

Also, Arya and the Hound need their own spinoff show. The Wolf and the Hound. I would totally watch that.
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I've always been partial to the Braavosi because Syrio was from Braavos. And Jaqen wanted to take Arya there 2 seasons ago.

For some reason that makes feel attached to the people from the Iron Bank, whoever they may be.
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For a character that appeared only briefly in the beginning, Syrio certainly made quite an impact. The first sword of Braavos does not die!
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What do we say to the God of Death?

All together now: NOT TODAY!
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Why's Sansa still alive? Seriously, on the dullness rating of characters, she's next to Stanis. Out of all her siblings, she's the weakest and lives on only at other's mercy and pity over her family.

IS MARJORY QUEEN OR NOT?? Will she remarry Joffrey's brother? (sorry little Lannister, no offense, but I have trouble remembering your name cause you're invisible till now)

I haven't read the book and I'm wondering where Bravos is? Seems like heaven compares to Westeros and all the slave lands that dragon mother's passing. There are swords masters, gold bank and other stuff. Danerys should conquer Bravos first, no?
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You may have already seen this, but an interactive map for the GoT world is available here:
http://quartermaester.info/
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Okay first. The books are great, really great depending on who you are. Lots of people get very angry at the amount of detail and varying number of "points of view" aka long length. So. If you're like me, and have literally endless amounts of free time read the books in about two weeks and you'll almost salivate at the release of the next one and maybe even lose a bit of interest in the show.

I don't want to give out spoilers, but the show doesn't quite follow the books exactly and from the current point in the show Daenerys is very far away from the Free CITY of Braavos along with the other free cities such as Pentos (mentioned decent amount, the primary location Dany was hiding out at over the last I don't know how many years) if you can remember from Season 1 Dany was there (just outside the city) with the rich dude with the beard and her brother. The Khal, Drogo comes to "inspect" her at the gates of the rich guy's estate, I guess you could call it.

Dany also doesn't want to cause harm to innocent people, if you have watched the show the primary reason she hasn't gone to Westeros yet (besides lack of ships), is that she doesn't want to leave her free-d slaves to die and/or be recaptured and become slaves again. She is a soft-hearted ruler, yet still strong. Her kindness prevents her from skipping over everything and going to achieve her heart's desire of being the rightful Queen of Westeros. So to answer why she "hasn't" gone to somewhere like Braavos is A. Too far, B. She doesn't care so much about wealth (it's simple a means to an end of getting say ships/food), she cares about her people whether they be former slaves, or loyal advisors.
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lol, that was a very diplomatic response. I too am an avid book fan and when friends who havent read the books ask me westeros questions because the show is "too confusing", I just shake my head and walk away.
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I looove when Emilia Clarke speak foreign languages on GOT!. :D

This show is so awesome!... even the average episodes are good, interesting, and enjoyable!.

In your face season 4 of TWD... :P
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I just love that, whatever Missandrei and Daenerys are speaking is considered a foreign language!

Whoever thought a made-up dialect would beat fake accents was so right its scary.
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Can we please get more badass Dany and less underlit north? Can she get a spin-off maybe?
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As long as she stays on the other side of the narrow sea, we can't have more of her. Can't wait for the day she lands her feet on king's landing and start the real war!
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I for one would love "Mother of Dragons" the sitcom!
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NO COMMENTS ON HOW HOT DAARIO IS?????
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Well that would be normal , the previous actor was better looking and more suave not to mention a change rather radical from the long blonde hair and shaved look
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Totally agree! The former one's way better and younger!!
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I kind of like Jon Snow better, but the new Daario is still cute.

Now, Prince Oberyn, on the other hand, that's what I would call damn hot!
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Sure the so called infamous scene didnt happen the same way that in the books , but it was impossible to do , for starters , without Jaime's narration and and insight into his head and Cersei's . Still i'm very glad it happened for one reason , when i see the reaction from some of the public and commenters . it's one think to like Jaime , i love Jaime actually , as a character .

But to start believing he's on the good side or on the verge of redemption because of a few cheap shows of benevolence ? Get out of your heads already . Those people needed a fresh reminder of how amoral and self serving Jaime is , not even as bad as he can be good , but easily worse than all the good he does , and it's one of those reminders .
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If you think this is a straight redemption arc...you haven't been paying attention!

Also, I want to add that just because it didn't happen exactly the same way in the books doesn't make the book-scene less of a rape. It was. And frankly, having the show depict violence against women in a less morally ambiguous way than the books (or Martin in is comments) do is fine with me.
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seriously... the series (sorry, you mean the books?!)is showing violence against women? so according to you the show (and books) would be better if the men turned: excuse me, can I put my penis in your vagina?

it's Game of thrones!!! and this show is not about what's political correct! it's about who has the power and who knows how to use it, if you're expecting sensitivity, just stop watching. (same as the books)

As it is known, if a series shows rape then there's gonna be a massive increase in rape - or if a show has episode after episode of people being nice to each other, everyone is going to start being nice to each other. ...(please detect my sarcasm)
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Uh ? i'm talking about other people's assumptions there about Jaime . Of course it's not going to be straight redemption , if even a redemption at all . Those people are mixing added layers to a complex character , with some 360 turn for the character imo .

And i never said it aint a rape in the books . The scene is just impossible as depicted in the books that's all . I dont care much about it frankly , like others pointed out , there have been worse done through the whole serie and books . I just welcome it as a fresh reminder that Jaime isnt a good or reformed guy , far from it
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It was no rape i n the books
what you see on tv is just PC crap (they have the guts to show how it really was)
I have to say in the show I hated Jamie at first and when they cut off his hand I started to changed my view on him
but when I read the book to see whats coming next
I acuttaly saw how he becomes a more likable and somewhat nobel character
This scence ruin it
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ANd since you pressed the issue , no anyway , in the book it didnt feel like a rape . She mostly showned discomfort about the time and place , but easily gave in . And a rather forgettable scene either way , all things in Westeros considered
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I may have to watch it again ... but I really don't see what the fuss is all about. When I first saw it (and i only saw it once), I didn't think it was rape. Didn't she say "No, not here. It isn't right here" or something like that? That implies more that she didn't want him there, in front of their dead kid (extremely understandable!) instead of rape ... doesn't it? Also .. don't you think that a woman like cersei would have fought a lot more than that, if she was getting raped? Come on ppl ... stop being so ultra-sensitive!
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nah man...no rape what so ever
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yeah i was wondering where those catapults came from too. they werent there in the previous shot of the army. it's like they built them on the spot with no one noticing.

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I just assumed they made it out of the wood where the Mereen people nailed the corpses of the children.

It would be just like Daenerys to send the kids's collar using the very weapon the slave owners used to kill them.
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this dario sux big time...and feel sorry for you non book readers..you are missing a great character - strong belwas
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You spoiled my breakfast with your words. Nah, I completely agree. The show cuts out a lot, and changes a lot but they have to in order to fit it in a show. However Strong Belwas shoulda been there and the new Daario is lame "apparently" the other actor left to star in Transporter #7. That FOOL. He could of been all up on Daenerys. Damn I'd cut me off some of that pie, eat it nice and slow to savor every bite.
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I agree .. strong belwas is awesome. And this Daario is so mellowed down from the books. A pity!
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and not just belwas... donal noye aswell. he's super cool char..
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True. The "old" Daario - the blonde underwear-model - was a lot better (looking).
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i agree! i still can't get past this. the old daario had soooo much chemistry with daenerys, whew.
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Neither looked like the real Daario anyway. The old pretty one looked like some reject from the Kevin Sorbo Hercules serie (or Groo , the Conan the Barbarian parody from the Angel tv show) .

And the new one looks more serious , but not suave enough thus far .
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yes. and previous daario looked like proper merc. this one looks like highschool history teacher
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A Strong Belwas scene would have been amazing - he would make for a nice break from the monotony of Dany's scenes. God there becoming dull!
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How ironic did the khaleesi call his army as free. haha
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Why is that? I don't get what you're saying?
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I honestly don't understand why everyone gets so worked up over that rape-scene. Jamie raped Cersei - brother rapes sister in front of their dead son - big deal. Well, not on GoT.

It's not like the rest of the show is all peachy and full of roses. There is all kinds of sick shit going on everywhere and no one batted an eyelash.

  • Remember Craster? He lived and bred his daughters and handed over baybies to the whitewalkers. But the rape scene is upsetting?
  • Theon kills a couple of farmers kids and burns their corpses just to cause a diversion and lay a false trail.
  • Slavers in Mereen kill 100+ kids to use as signposts
  • A guy tortures Theon, cuts off his manhood and sends it to his dad via FedEx
  • Rob's wife is pregnant and before she gets murdered the guy killing her stabbs her in the belly with some sick pleasure - and everyone else is killed as well. And all that during a supposed wedding.
  • Joffrey tortures and killes a hooker just because he is a sadistic pig...

Now, can you explain why the rape scene - not even the first rape scene on GoT - is SO different and SO upsetting to some? This is GoT and not DisneyWorld. And remember: books and TV are two very different mediums.


ARape in real life - THAT is something to get upset about. Take a look at Inda. In that setting not very many people seem to care - and we really should.
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True. All those collars thrown against the City belonged to dead children and no one adresses it?!

Not even after Daario pissed on Mereen? I want the head of whoever gave the order! I can't believe I'm the only one mad about this.
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Gave what order? What are you upset about?
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The order to kill the slave children of Mereen.

According to Ser Barristan, there were 163 miles between Daenerys and the City, each and every mile was "marked" by the corpse of a child crucified to death by the end of the second episode of this season.

Daenerys ordered to remove the collar of every boy & girl before the unsullied would bury them. And those were the broken collars that were thrown to the City.

By the end of this episode, there were 326 parents whose only comfort is that they've just received the collar of their dead children.

And I can't believe I'm the only one whose mad about this.
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Who are you suggesting we be mad at?

I don't see why the parents would be mad at Dany.

The broken collars were a message that they, too, can be free -- and perhaps a reminder of how brutal their current masters are.
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Because it wasn't like that at all in the books. Yes all those other scenes were horrific but the only one of those that we actually saw was the Red Wedding. Jaime is supposed to be in love with his sister and suddenly he's pinning her to the ground next to the corpse of her murdered son and forcing himself on her? That's not a development you make if you want us to like a character which is what the show has been doing with Jaime
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What do you mean we didn't see the other stuff? You didn't SEE the actual rape either. Just like we didn't see them cut of Theons parts or see them kill the kids for the singposts etc. And we DID see Craster give away his baby. Also: Thats not really the point.

LIKE Jamie? I could never like him. He gained a few points while on the road with Brienne. But he shoved a kid out a window, so no, I don't like him. But I like him as a character on the show just fine. Same as Cersei. She is an awful person, that makes her such a great character. I like her a lot more than Jamie.
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Well, just because something in the show is not exactly like in the book is no reason to make such a big fuss about it. I read the books about a year ago and yes I noticed, but to me it was merely a small detail.

This series is SO close to the books, much closer than almost ANY other screen-adaptation of a book. I think you would be hard pressed to find a movie/tv-series that is closer to it's literary original than Game of Thrones.

I for one am very impressed and very happy (for now) with the way they adapted the books for the small screen.
If you take a look at other adaptations - Harry Potter for example - there is much more reason to be upset and annoyed.
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Damn, that last scene was awesome!!! Great episode :)
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Wow. Just wow. I'm going to focus and discuss some other things rather than what happened in The Sept. Tywin's conversation with Tommen was perfect! When Charles Dance shares a scene with younger child actors there is some underlying gentleness there. I'm remembering his scenes with Arya. Oh trust me I totally think his character is a low tyrant but he is a brilliant actor! His "training" of Tommen was kind of sweet but the underlying motives were there as well.
Oberyn...Love him! Every word that comes out of his mouth is like music. I just want to hear more! His little deal is very intriguing. However what's more intriguing is how Littlefinger gets his little fingers in and on EVERYTHING! Could he have been any creepier towards Sansa?! He was practically slurring his speech because of the drooling he was doing. What a perv! Poor Sansa just doesn't know what just happened or what all of it even means! She might not be safer with Littlefinger but at least she won't be tormented by Joffrey any longer.
Tyrion....things aren't looking good for him. His farewell with Pod was so sad. Both looked so wounded but it is for the best. Pod needs to hightail it out of there. Just like the Tyrells, but it doesn't look like they will be going anywhere! So Margery will probably marry Tommen. Does anyone else think this comical? Holy cow that girl has some bad luck or good? ;) I really enjoyed how mostly everyone shook off Joffrey's death like NBD, onward and upward!
A ton happened in this episode! Jam packed. This season is full of shock and awe! Keep it up.
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It was the most enjoyable episode of the season for me, with a very good flow. Except for the disturbing reports of unnecessary alterations made to Jaime and The Hound...

I don't understand changing something for the sake of changing, especially if it backfires in the process by painting a character in a completely different light. Benioff and Weiss have gotten away with a number of "rewrites" so far, but this time it seems like a step too far.
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Found this blog while searching the meaning of a "ninth born son", and so glad I did! Laughed out laud while being able to settle that crazy feeling of "you'll never be able to keep up with us", I get after watching each episode! Did not get my answer, but might have hit a jackpot! Thank You Mr. Surette!
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Not sure if this will help, but in terms of succession, the ninth son of a family has very little chance of inheriting the title from his father. So, many younger sons will forswear any claims to the lordship of their house, and take the black as a way to seek glory or honor.
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It just bugs me that the show writers would do that to Jaime. What was the point? Jaime was on the golden track to 'beloved anti-hero' (from my perception), and they didn't even consult GRRM (or so he says)!

Fans won't forget about this shit. People will be pissed if my lovely Brienne furthers any relationship with Jaime because he's a rapist. If people find out (Brienne) then they will scorn him more. We will never let the writers forget... The long-time consequences seem a bit drastic. And for what? Shock? Disgust? 'Layering his character?' Because they succeeded for the first two, but all they did was set his character back three seasons and seal his fate with a deed he can't repeal. I'm not saying that I personally think rape is a worse crime than others, but it is common flaw amongst viewers of any show that while murder, thieving, lying, and betrayal can forgiven and forgotten and become the troubled past of an anti-hero, rape, somehow, cannot.

People who start reading the books from now on will be tainted by this mindset that Jaime is rapist. This kinda shit is potent! Do the writers not understand this? And they pulled it off in the grossest, most disturbing way possible: the rape of a grieving woman literally right over the body of their murdered incest child. Hell, if I didn't know Jaime's character from the books so well and still believed in his character from past seasons, I wouldn't like Jaime! How dare they ruin his character like that!

Yeah, yeah, it's a show. I geddit. But you know what? This pissed me the hell off. I have to work tomorrow. I just cut my hand with a serrated knife while chopping ham. My dog has a broken leg, and now Jaime fucking Lannister just got turned into a rapist for no goddamn reason. I can deal with the useless demonstrations of sex and nudity and vulgarity, but this is the useless marring of a character, and I cannot fucking stand it.

If you can't stand it either, go read the books. Trust me, it'll be a bit more arduous overall, but it's much more enjoyable--with every character.
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Seriously, Brienne isn't a prize: she's a person.

Jaime is not Damon Salvatore/Vincent/Klaus, Brienne is not his reward for good behavior. Just like Ellaria and Oberyn on this show, Brienne is a complex person that just figured out she's no longer in love with the gay guy she thought she was in love with before Jaime.

Ellaris isn't changing Oberyn because he sleeps with other men, he isn't changing her because she's a bastard, that's not how it works in Game of Thrones. And it's not how it works for Brienne.

Just ask Renly
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*unattractive yelp* I'm sorry if it came out that way! Shit, that was not what I intended. I was just trying to say that Brienne is an honest-to-goodness character that 'fell in love' with Jaime (I love implied canon) because she saw the cracks in the facade that was the Kingslayer. She truly believes, as far as I can see, that there is a layer of goodness to him. If she were to discover somehow--although I don't know how anyone would know, but it's GoT, everybody knows something--that Jaime had raped Cersei or anyone, I personally see her reverting to her initial ideas: he's bad and she was wrong about him. This is more than assumption, this is how she really thinks of him and men in the book and show. She assumes everything is a trick because she's been insulted and toyed with so much. I see her thinking that Jaime played with her feelings to get the upper hand in the situation or something like that. She'd scorn his affections--because, let's be straight, some of this stuff he's done has been pretty affectionate.

I don't think that Jaime deserves Brienne, not book-Jaime, not pre-rape-Jaime, and not post-rape-Jaime. The majority of GoT characters don't deserve my precious flower. When I said that people would be pissed about their relationship furthering, if it does, I meant that--no matter who it was and in what context--I don't believe people would approve of his relationships with everyone (but the victim of rape) chugging along like nothing happened. The beauty of Braime, for those who like it, is the beauty of every anti-hero/hero relationship: it develops the understanding and emotions of the hero, and develops the goodness and character of the villain or anti-hero. That type of development and relationship is not believeable if the rape isn't properly addressed.

If Brienne finds out and Jaime somehow redeems himself? If they (not just him and Brienne, but Jaime, Jaime and Cersei, any Jaime relationship really) work it out and this miraculously leads to some character arc? Then it will be understandable for Brienne to be with him. But until then, I just don't see the public approving of an intimate relationship between the two--especially if Brienne knows. Say Jaime redeems himself and they still don't have that relationship. I'll snap my fingers and drink something strong, but I'll get over it. Why? Because I definitely do not think Brienne is a prize to be handed to him when Jaime gets all goody-good again. I just think Brienne wouldn't allow herself to be with him until he has redeemed himself in her eyes. (bolding 'cause it's the main point)

Sorry for blabbering. I basically just gave you an entire analysis of this scene linking to their relationship, but whatever. If I missed anything, note it. I'll reply.
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Brienne saw there was still honor in Jaime, that he lived by it not unlike Renly did.

That's what she fell in love with (or, at least, what last season seems to hint she fell in love with).

And we must always keep in mind that honorable men
  • kill (The Hound, Jaqen, Ned),
  • break their vows (Jon, Stannis, Robb)
  • and even lie (Davos, Beric Dondarion, Ser Barristan Selmy)
in this world too.

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Book Jaime: Strangely likeable bad-to-good anti-hero.

Show Jaime: Well, laDEE FUCKING DA, NOW HE'S A RAPIST AND THE SHOW HAS SEALED IT'S DAMN FATE AND QUITE POSSIBLY GRRM'S.
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Seriously, capital letters now? And not a single thing on Jon's logic to kill the actual rapists at Craster's rather than the wildlings slaying mothers and children?

Oberyn's "fivesome"? That thing at least counts as an orgy, someone must have something to say about it now...

Joffrey posing as Jon Arryn's corpse three seasons ago? Jon Arryn?? As in the actual murder that started this whole thing???

Brienne not being arrested despite her connection Catelyn & Renly?

Tywin training Tommen as if he had planned the whole thing?!

No Capital letters for any of this?!
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Man, I don't even know anymore. This rape scene is, like, the pinnacle of the crap for me. All of that stuff you listed (amongst other things) really, really sucks. And then this stupid scene comes along and I lose it. It's the breaking point. All of my hatred and boredom and irritation with the show (even though I adore it, it's true) is just being pinpointed on this damn rape. And stupid stuff.

WHY ARE PEOPLE BLAMING TYRION (even in the book they did that and people are just really dumb)? WHY DID THEY CHANGE THE HOUND'S CHARACTER? HE NEVER ROBBED THE DAMN FARMER! HE HELPED HIM, AND WHEN THE FARMER WAS AFRAID TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH HIM, HE LEFT! WHY DOES JAIME HAVE TO HAVE THAT DAMN HAIRCUT? IT'S AWFUL. I HATE IT. I DISLIKE SHALLOW COMMENTS LIKE THIS, BUT I HATE IT AND I WANT PRINCE CHARMING HAIR BACK!

UUGHHSFJLSJNLFNENNWLKNK
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What I hate the most is that is necessary to kill those rapists at Craster's, not because of what they did to Gremm & Edd - so good to see you alive, you guys! - or what they did to Craster's daughters-wives, but so that they would not talk once the Thenn get to them.

It's just so wrong when compared to what Ygritte, Tormund and Co did-are doing to those families that even I feel the urge to put the whole thing in capital letters.

I just don't understand why is that I'm the only one.
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ehmm ... they are both tactical decisions. In wars, commanders have to make harsh decisions like that all the time. Not sure why you find it so hard to understand, really.
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Oh, and they killed their own Lord Commandaer, I'm mad about Mormont too!

But is Jon going to avenge him? Noooo, he just has to silence the idiots before the Thenn extract information.

And it makes me furious!
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SERIOUSLY, RIGHT?
This may sound pretty bad, but people need to have their crimes addressed and--if they are to be killed--they need to be killed for the right reason. The rapist thing is like me starting a fire in my bedroom and saying, "I should put out that fire not because it could burn down the house and kill us all, or because it's already burned a hole in my desk, but because my mother might know I was messing with the goddamn lighters." I don't approve of wildling or Crow actions, but if it's gonna be done, do it right.
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Back to the actual episode: what really got my attention about the "fivesome" is how the male whore couldn't believe Oberyn would like both genders, given how Ellaria was actually enjoying both genders at the same time.

For a world that wasn't chocked something as Renly & Loras existed, it sounde as if bisexual people are as mythical as dragons.
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"shocked" instead of "chocked" (You know nothing ionee snow)
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My biggest problem with the rape scene now is no longer that it was changed to a rape instead of a sex scene that was a result of pent up feelings after his initial return. They can change it to rape if they want, the have made a lot of changes that have really worked well with in the story. So if they aren't going to change the exact way Cersei and Jaime's relationship deteriorates, that is up to them.
My problem is the director says in an interview that it eventually "becomes consensual". Which is one of the most ignorant things you can say about rape, fictional or otherwise. So I am hoping that they do not continue to delude themselves that rape can ever become consensual in the same way he seems to think it can.
35 years ago, general Hospital did the same thing with Luke raping Laura and then passing it off as something she really wanted, and wrapping it nicely in a love story. It took them years to get around to finally addressing their mistake and have Laura dealing with it as a rape victim. Three decades later, to have someone saying the same thing isn't insulting to viewers, it is sad that he actually feels that way.
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Ohmigosh...Luke & Laura! I couldn't hear the song "Rise" by Herb Alpert the same way ever again after that!
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I haven't read the books.
The Walking Bran meets the 1 eyed snake 3 eyed raven and then he can "warg" dragons
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From what I understand a warg can get into any animal, and dragons are animals.
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Disclaimer: I have not read the books. My best guess is that Davos is writing to the iron bank in order to gain their support, ie money for sell swords. If you recall from season 1, the throne is heavy in debt to the iron bank, and while I don't recall who said it, it was mentioned that one way or the other they always get their gold, also implying that the bank could fund enemies of the crown. I think this was pre-Robert death, because I think Ned brought it up, but I don't recall exactly.
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That was brought up by Tyrion when he inherited the 'Master of Coin' title from Littlefinger early in season 3. He outright stated that if they didn't repay their debts to the Iron Bank of Braavos, it might fund their enemies. I'm assuming that this is what Davos' plan is. Although I'm a little confused as to why they're still plotting ways to claim King's Landing, when it seemed like they were heading to the Wall at the end of Season 3 to do something more selfless and useful.
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Hodor.
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ur hate of shae is completely based on book spoilers
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I myself hated her before I even read the books
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I don't hate Shae, she fell in love with the wrong person and, unlike Ellaria or Jaime, she really can't handle the situation.
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The only question I have after this episode is, why does everyone in Game Of Thrones have a big dick? Does George R.R Martin have an obsession?
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*sings* Weiner weiner weiner weiner weiner weiner weiner
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You need to watch (unless you already have) the Southpark episodes based on GoT and Black Friday. It expands on GRRM's fascination and it's hilarious!
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I only saw a huge peed, nothing else was shown.

Seriously though, What's up with mercenaries and peeing in public? Daario, the Mereen "knight", the second sons, the Hound wanting to joins the second sons

(Should I tell him they are dead since last season?)
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In regards to the whole controversial creepy sex scene of Cersei and Jaime. Here is the quote from the book illustrating how it is not rape and is very different. Note: Jaime has only just returned to King's Landing in the books which is (partly) why Cersei mentions "home" so much.

"Hurry," she was whispering now, "quickly, quickly, now, do it now, do me now. Jaime Jaime Jaime." Her hands helped guide him. "Yes," Cersei said as he thrust, "my brother, sweet brother, yes, like that, yes, I have you, you’re home now, you’re home now, you’re home." She kissed his ear and stroked his short bristly hair.

In my opinion this is one of those rare moments where a slight change they made did not bring an interesting spin on things but was instead a bit of a blunder which does Jaime's character harm. Rarely do I think this of an otherwise fantastic show.
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It's hard to sometimes comment here because of book reading but I agree. I almost think Jaime "raping" her is showing that he is losing himself. He is struggling with what he use to know/was and what he could be becoming. The show is slapping us with the change rather than a books slower progression.
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Quite possible, I hope they build it into something more. Because at present I thought it did a bit of harm, but there is still most of a season left so not finally judging it by any means.

I was mainly just posting it for any who might be interested to know the difference that everyone is citing. In general it seems most show watchers weren't fans of it, most book readers weren't either but because of the slight but important change.

Normally I like the little changes, and all the invented scenes in this week's episode were pretty awesome, Tyrion and Pod was particularly great, but this scene I thought maybe should have been left as more consensual.
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Agreed! I'll make a larger comment for all as well but I felt so sad for Pod and Tyrion. That scene was beautiful.
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Pod smuggling candles for Tyrion must have been the single most cutest thing since Arya called The Hound "father".
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I might be crazy, but I think Davos applied for a loan from the Iron bank of bravos.
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And he forged Stannis' signature (or whatever the equivalent of a signature is)!
:P
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Whatever he did Davos used money rather than magic, so kudos to him!
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CSI: Medieval. The necklace.
This week, Lord Baelish (with an unusually deep brogue) fingers Sansa and the fool but ultimately frees the Imp.
So Lord Baelish arranged it all hey. He gets Sansa to wear a prominent necklace before and on the day of the wedding; gifted indirectly by the fallen Knight. The latter The Court all know to have been saved by Sansa and who she now has befriended further and is to be seen both 'in the shadows' and in public with. But wait, they're both missing. But wait more, his dead body is to be found adrift in a row boat with the now broken necklace upon his person. What are we to conclude? Could it be that Sansa's murderous relationship with the Jester came to a rude end and now she's in the wind - literally. And, more importantly, that the dear and yet much derided Imp was innocent all along? Gasp!
Watching Danny is like is funny as she struggles from Moth of Dragons to near teen-like indecision over which dress to wear.
I'm looking forward to The Mountain and Oberon meeting. to see whether the latter can beat an arse and not just bonk one.
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My money is on Prince Oberyn, I don't care how many people he fucks with.
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Another unnecessary rape scene in the TV world. I expected better from you, GoT. The rest of the episode was great, but that just bothered me throughout.
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I take your point and would never justify rape, but can't help wonder if the books (which I haven't read) are littered with scenes of those two (or other relatives with her) having incestuous sex, in which Cersei speaks those words as a twisted motivator.
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Well, that scene in particular is not of rape. Neither was Khal Drogo and Dany's wedding night scene.
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Just because a scene isn't filled with candles and characters with orgasmic faces since the first kiss doesn't make it rape: there's a lot more to sex than what the CW is trying to sell as such.

Unfortunatelly, there doesn't seem to be many adults to actually discuss it at this point.
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Rape isn't sex.Do not make that mistake and do not make assumptions about people you don't know.
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It did not happen in the book. In the book, the sex , however abject, being incestuous and in front of their child's corpse, is consensual.
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one of the best episodes till date!!!
Time just flew by!!!
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I blame Daario, he beat those Mereen people with a wink and a knife!

He will never be Khal Drogo, but he'll do for now.
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Im a little confused by the time line of the show.. Littlefinger told Sansa that Joffrey had tormented her for years... So how many time have passed since Ned and his daugthers came to King`s landing, to joffrey´s murderer??
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Well, Gilly had a baby while Bran & Rickon escaped Winterfell, so at least there must have passed 9 months since Jon joined the Night's Watch.
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The baby was Castor's not Sam's. She was pregnant when they got there.
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They are being vague about the years because of the children's ages. In the books this is all in the first year or so of the war, but the younger children were aging and the producers moved up shooting back-to-back seasons to help work around it. Some of them go away, but others, like Sansa and Arya are clearly going to be around and they no longer look close to their age from when they started. So it is only a small change, but a necessary one to keep it believable. I think this episode was the first to use the word years, though.
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I think it is somewhat unclear in the show, but safe to say at least a few years. In the books the characters such as Robb are quite young at the beginning and he's starting to grow into a full adult (maybe 19 or so) by the time he loses his head at the Red Wedding, so Sansa has been in King's Landing quite a while.

Just in case this also confuses at all, the seasons of Westeros are not annual, so Winter comes every number of years and not every year. I think the current Summer has lasted 14 years of something to that effect and is now ending.
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I think they do want to use the same actors for the roles instead of re-casting them (which would be weird for the audience). So where it's easy for a book to span over a number of years it's not really easy to shoot a TV Show in that same manner because if you cast a 15 year old to play a role he can't suddenly be playing a 19 year old.
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Oh yea of course, it makes complete sense to go the route they did. I was never saying otherwise, I was just trying to make a rough guess to answer the question by CarmenGarcade about how long is supposed to have passed since Sansa arrived in King's Landing.

In the books, Robb, Dany and Jon are all about 14 at the beginning so it much better to age them all up for the show.
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I don't think so, the show has messed with the ages a lot, all the boys seem to have been made much older than they were in the book, but they didn't age the girls for some reason. I am assuming because they didn't want to cast a 14 year old in the role of Rob or Jon.
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Yea I was just saying that even though the ages are different in the show and we don't get any real indication of the amount of time that has passed it is pretty safe to guess at a few years. All the stuff that has happened since the pilot did not occur in the space of one year but a fair bit longer. After all it is meant to take weeks to ride from Winterfell to King's Landing alone, and months with Robert's extravagant coaches.

I was mainly giving an estimated guess to answer CarmenGarcade's question.

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I'm not sure in the book at this point I think it has only been just over a year.
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I think perhaps 2 years-remember that Dany went through almost an an entire pregnancy, plus traveling to different city states taking control. All the fighting and battles. Plus these folks are on foot or horseback. And Rob's wife last season was almost ready to give birth. So I think a reasonable time line is 2 years.
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Yes but in the books Rob's wife was never pregnant and Dany got pregnant very fast. So I think it has almost been 2 years but I don't think it has got there yet.
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I think it was Tywin Lannister
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I know who. And more than oneis involved. I will not say unless you want to know. it is from the books.
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Really? What part of Please, no book spoilers in the comments! Is unclear to you Belwyn? If we want to know we'll google it or read up on the books.
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People have been discussing whether it was rape or not. All I know is that I don't like anybody in this show. Well, almost anybody. Those I don't dislike are either dead, or I haven't found a reason good enough to hate them yet. Whatever happens to them, they deserve it. So i'm not sorry for Cersei, and I'm not disappointed in Jaime.
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Seriously, this whole rape thing has become way too childish for me to believe I'm actually discussing Jaime & Cersei scene with adults.
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What's childish about what I said? The characters characters are essentially rotten. It's a different world that operates under very different rules. We can't apply to them the same ethics and moral standards that we uphold in our lives in the modern world.
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You are not the childish one, the whole argument has become childish hence why I no longer believe I'm dicussing it with adults.
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Oh, well. We're here to talk about the show, and that's an aspect that stood out this time. And it's the first time I've mentioned it and it was just more of a passing remark. But honestly I just read a couple comments down below that addressed the issue, but I have no idea how far this has gone.
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Superb article here re the "rape" scene. http://www.avclub.com/article/rape-thrones-203499

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While I agree with the author's assessment on Dany's rape, I apparently saw a different scene than she last night: At one point she talks of the"[...] long, brutal scene of Cersei’s rape [...]". I saw a brutal scene, yes. But I didn't see a scene all that different from the one depicted in the books. If we don't call it rape there, I would argue it can't be here.
The author even gives the passage which basically reads: She wants it, but not in the sept. Jaime doesn't care. Then she digs it. The show did: She wants it, but not in the sept. Jaime doesn't care. Then it goes over to ambiguous sobs (ever thought those were sobs over Joffrey?)

I don't want to play anything down if this was truly meant to depict a merciless rape, as everyone everywhere is calling it. However, television is also up for interpretation and I just didn't see it that way. This didn't compare to how they depicted rape with Dany.
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Joffrey's assassination is a big thing... he was the King. I doubt that it was just one person pulling the strings, instead more like a bunch of people collaborating together to all of their advantages. Or maybe it was just all Littlefinger, who knows.

What do I think of him after this episode? The same thing I've thought about him ever since he gave up Ros to Joffrey and gave his ugly speech to Varys about spies and plans. That he's sick and evil. Sansa is NOT safe with him.

Like others, I could not have cared less about Gilly's scenes. It was boring as hell and could have all been summed up by Sam casually mentioning to Jon that "oh hey, I took Gilly to the town nearby because I didn't think she was safe there." Sam say. Jon nods his head in approval, "Nice. Did you grab some bread before you left? I haven't had bread in ages and you don't want to know what the wildlings eat..."

Where were the dragons this episode? Tywin mentioned them, but then pretty much blew it off, like uh I'm not going to worry about that though.. Dragons? NBD. I'm going to go crash an orgy!
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This is a good point, because of the several ramifications Joffrey's murder may have very well be a conspiration of several parties that would benefit from it.

What really bother me is not the rationale behind Gilly, but the rationale behind going to murder the renegades at Craster's now.
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It wasn't the rational of Gilly's predicament that bothered me, it was the length of time spent on it. I really don't care if she lives, whores, cleans, or dies. She's just annoying and a terrible waste of the limited time they have to tell a giant, epic story.

The reasoning behind killing the turn coats north of the wall at Castors is because if Mance runs into them -and with his army's numbers that beyond highly likely- that he'll torture them to find out everything about the soldiers on The Wall. Ie. the amount of soldiers, a huge tactical disadvantage to Jon and his brothers. Not only that, but those guys who took over Castors are petty killers. They could be bought to not only give up important information about The Wall -any weakness- and also bought to help fight WITH the wildlings. Therefore, as a quick tactical solution. Wipe them out, to avoid any issue.
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"What do you think of Littlefinger? Is he a smart player in this game or just a jerk?" - While he is a rather unlikable and unpleasant guy, I truly believe he is one of the smartest and most cunning individuals in this entire series. He may not be the king in King's Landing, but Littlefinger is the one that sees everything and gets almost everything done while still remaining relatively unseen.
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I wonder if the writers are now regretting their idiotic interpretation of the scene with Cersei and Jaimie. It was not rape in the books, so I'm unsure why they went the route of this. If the effort was to put Jaimie back in the villain category, well it worked. If the effort was to make Cersei more empathetic, it worked for a nanosecond. If it was to reinforce the perversion of the Lannisters, why bother, we hadn't forgotten. But whatever the reason really was, I think it might have been lost in translation. Although I'm glad Sansa got away, the fact Littlefinger was the reason is not a good thing for her, I don't believe. Stannis the boring, sorry my eye lids got heavy watching him.

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I wonder if I'm actually the only viewer who noticed the similarity with Jaime & Cersei scene besides Jon Arryn's corpse.

Rest in Peace Jon Arryn, now Cersei's son is no longer posing as Robert's (and you never really checked on Tommen to worry about him)
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Oberyn is the BEST I WANT MORE!!!!!!!!!!!
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Me too!!!
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Littlefinger is smart, or well smarter than a good deal of the players. However, he has a flaw, he thinks he is better and more deserved than everyone else. He is greedy for both money and power and that makes him predictable. Well at least to the man that is smarter and far more cunning than Littlefinger and that is Varys.

Littlefinger plays a good game, he set up Ned to get killed by Joffrey. He worked with whomever (are we not spoiling that? I mean the last episode we watched who palmed the jewel on Sansa's necklace?) In doing so he likely knew who Cersei was going to blame, which was Tyrion, another man who is smarter than Littlefinger. Anywho, he gets Dontos to smuggle Sansa out of King's Landing. Kills Dontos because like he said once he runs out of silver and drink he is someone that couldn't be trusted. Gets Sansa in a weird I used to be in love with your mom and you kind of look like her thing. And he was never a suspect. It is a good plan, but it is reckless in that it is an over reach and it teaches Sansa a very valuable lesson if she is capable of learning it. And that is you can't trust Littlefinger. Littlefinger, I believe will eventually get his. It is going to take a few more books for that, mostly because he is kind of fun to watch. Better than Cersei and her 1 dimensional hatred and power hungry self.

The rest was all right. Dany was perfect. Emilia Clarke just plays her so very well.

And as fun as Arya and the Hound are, Arya needs to strike out on her adventure, hopefully before the end of the season.
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I agree that Varys is the one who is smarter than Littlefinger. I also hope the same for Arya, I think we will see the beginning of it but not much more than that, there's just so much story with other characters to fit in as well.

However I think one thing Littlefiner is not is predictable. There is a direct quote which they left out of the scene with him and Sansa on the boat about being unpredictable, I won't say more as I hope it is part of a future conversation but as you seemingly have read the books you are safe to read it here: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Petyr_Baelish scroll down to the quotes and some of his best are all about the very subject of predictability.

Although I suppose Varys did sum it up well when talking about how Littlefinger hides what he cares about very well but he does have a weakness, so I suppose what you said is true for Varys. I also agree about your predictions for Littlefinger but I hope not for some time, he is thoroughly entertaining even if pretty dam creepy with Sansa.
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The only difference between them is that Littlefinger plays the game for himself and Varys for someone else. Other than that they both lie, spy, bribe and murder and still remain both sympathetic and enigmatic. It's what makes them two of the most unique-to-ASOIF characters there are.
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Great post. I agree with a lot of what you said. In the story I agree he is one of the better ones at playing the game. But that is within the story and within the characters he deals with. We as viewers and as readers get to see more of him then the characters do. Littlefinger for those others that are playing the game, isn't really regarded.

Ned regarded him as a coward and a weakling, Cersei regards him as a greedy man that would betray anyone for money, position and power. The only two that ever really seem to have the best evaluation of him is Varys and to a lesser extent Tyrion. The rest underestimate him or disregard him. Which in a way fuels him. But he is after position, he is after the throne. And if a more intelligent character within the game could see that then he becomes incredibly predictable. Especially to Varys, because though I think Littlefinger likes to think 3 or 4 moves ahead. Varys is playing the long game and is 12 moves ahead.

It isn't difficult, I was able to discern his motives and moves in the books way before I read them on the page. I think it might be Sansa that actually inevitably beats him at his own game. She gets to see him in ways that no one has. It is an interesting relationship and tutorship between he and her and I think she finally starts to grow up and learn.

As for his end. For some reason I see him meeting Arya in the distant future.
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No spoilers ahead, just some filler for the folks that haven't read the books...
Just a quick note, and something that is clearer in the books: it's not that Stannis doesn't want sell swords, he can't afford them. For this reason, Davos has been stuck trying to rally the support of Stannis' remaining bannermen and their armies- this tactic is not going well, as Stannis so eloquently put it. So now Davos has the idea to petition the Iron Bank of Braavos for a loan in order to bring in some mercs, like the Golden Company that was mentioned. The Iron Bank of the Free Cities is one of the few entities out there with enough gold to compete with the Lannisters and support kings. Also note that Stannis was skeptical of Davos' plan because the loyalty of sell swords can be bought, but the Golden Company is renowned for honoring their contracts.
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This was such great television and even better than last week's episode! I know, I know, that's a crazy thing to say but I always love the GoT episodes that are all about the verbal combat and charading and piece moving. Sure, a sweet death here or there sweetens the pot (loved how the Magnar of Thenn just let that one chick's head fly!), but this was top notch entertainment from top to bottom with a short detour along Sam's story line.
Seriously, that lovebird! I would like him to shut up now if he won't have anything important to do or say or if Gilly isn't going to be important (she isn't). Don't take us away from awesome stuff to see these two be awkward around each other, show!

It was filled with tons of perfect scenes with important characters talking pressing matters, yet Davos's two scenes were the ones that stood out to me the most in this episode although he just isn't that important right now. I quite agree with you - Liam Cunningham did some fine work here.

By the way: Daario handled the shit out of that duel, just sad he didn't let the dude make a notch on his belly.
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