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Why no Shadow in Blackwater?

  • Avatar of django_palcich

    django_palcich

    [1]May 29, 2012
    • member since: 09/29/05
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    I don't get one thing. Stannis killed Renly using that shadow thingy child, in essence Melisandre's magic. Why didn't he use it in the battle of Blackwater? Odds would certainly have been in his favor. Now, you may say that he told Davos he wouldn't, and wanted the victory at Blackwater to be his own. As House would say, that is logical if you don't think about it for more than 3 seconds. Stannistook Renly's ships with the help of magic, so even without Melisandre at the scene, his victory would be hers. So, why not go all the way? He had already dipped in, he might have as well gone for the swim. In essence, he should have turned down Melisandre the night she promised him a son. Every moment after that is hers too. In that sense, I find Stannis a lot less satisfying than I would have if he either went with just his (and not Renly's army), if he killed Renly in the battlefield and then took what left, or if he took Melisandre and let her do her thing at Blackwater. All three scenarios would present a more consistent motivation

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  • Avatar of Phoenix250

    Phoenix250

    [2]May 29, 2012
    • member since: 06/22/06
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    It is stated in the GoTwiki that the Shadow-child requires a man's essence (Stannis) to be created. But each time this happens, the man gets weaker as part of his essence is take away.

    I'm sure even Melisandre wouldn't risk weakening Stannis during a battle.
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  • Avatar of django_palcich

    django_palcich

    [3]May 29, 2012
    • member since: 09/29/05
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    Thanks a plenty, it wasn't said in the series, so I didn't know. I will start looking at GoTWiki
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  • Avatar of Xaios

    Xaios

    [4]Jun 1, 2012
    • member since: 05/31/12
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    Phoenix250 makes a good point, but there's a couple more reasons:

    1) Melisandre wasn't present at the battle because Davos believed that her presence would ultimately subvert Stannis' authority by making it appear to his men as if he were simply Melisandre's puppet. As a result, Stannis didn't bring her along.

    2) The reason the shadow assassin worked with Renly is because Renly was Stannis' brother. With Renly dead, the only leader left for most of the lords of the Stormlands to follow after they'd already openly rebelled against the crown was Stannis. The only house that defected to the Lannisters were the Tyrells (which ultimately did turn the tide). It wouldn't have worked Joffrey because, even if they did kill Joffrey with a shadow assassin, the Lannisters would then have simply crowned Tommen in his stead and kept fighting as if nothing had changed.

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  • Avatar of ionee24

    ionee24

    [5]Jun 7, 2012
    • member since: 07/05/06
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    django_palcich wrote:
    I don't get one thing. Stannis killed Renly using that shadow thingy child, in essence Melisandre's magic. Why didn't he use it in the battle of Blackwater? ...

    Because he thought he didn't need it, he already had Renly's men.

    He didn't count on Ser Loras joining Tywin forces because of what the shadow man did to Renly. In a way, his baby brother still won ...even if he wasn't alive to do so.

    That's how good is this show!
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