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Official Discussion Thread: Lockdown (possible spoilers)

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    Gislef

    [1]Sep 9, 2011
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    Please direct all general and specific discussion of the 9/9/11 episode "Lockdown" to this thread.

    Enjoy!
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    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [2]Sep 9, 2011
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    I don't know about this episode. Too many things that made absolutely no sense.

    1) Why did Nathan tell Evie that Duke discovered her text?
    2) Why did Evie go outside to get answers knowing she would be shot?
    3) Why didn't Evie tell Duke everything she knew?
    4) Why did Chris give a gun to a complete stranger on a silly plan?
    5) Why didn't Duke or Nathan become ill?

    Shaking my head on this one.
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    mattgus

    [3]Sep 10, 2011
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    I recorded this ep and stopped it to come to the forum to see if i was the only one wondering if the writers just got lazy or what? all of what mostcapableone said AND why, if they are "all" quarantined are they not together in a room? running about bumping into each other one on one so they can have these private talks..ie as with getting the gun... there should be a crowd of people. nobody outside is making demands. why are they not investigating who is behind the assult? why out of the blue is one officer in love with chris and why was'nt the doc (abuser)affected by him all of the time? and for that matter nobody seemed to notice him much....we were lead to believe that the trouble and acting captains lockdown were connected,but they were'nt so was it just happenstance that the captain ordered a lockdown and the guys were shooting people exiting the station? why did the assault stop all of a sudden, did i miss something? and why did i ff thru priestly's exit from the show...was it that bad??? lol the whole thing was stupid,but not as dumb as me tunning in next week! which i will do...there just is not enough sci fi on tv.
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    timewar

    [4]Sep 10, 2011
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    This episode was all kinds of bad. Duke's 180 thanking the Rev and Evie playing naive ? and dying? Does not fit with anything we have seen.


    I literally fell asleep with the soapy 2nd breakup scene (granted it was close to 1am but still...) A love interest for Parker just doesn't work (rather see her w Nathan anyway

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    haldrey

    [5]Sep 10, 2011
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    Lame episode just to get rid of two persons.
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    kanniballl

    [6]Sep 11, 2011
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    MOSTCAPABLEONE wrote:
    I don't know about this episode. Too many things that made absolutely no sense. 1) Why did Nathan tell Evie that Duke discovered her text? 2) Why did Evie go outside to get answers knowing she would be shot? 3) Why didn't Evie tell Duke everything she knew? 4) Why did Chris give a gun to a complete stranger on a silly plan? 5) Why didn't Duke or Nathan become ill? Shaking my head on this one.


    2) My "impression" was


    A) she'd completely lost it


    AND B) She thought she was too valuable to "kill." So she went outside to plead for someone that "knew something" to give him the intel he wanted.



    3) How much do we know that she knew? Only that she worked with the Rev and did some work with him. And that she found something that proved to her that he was right about something.



    4) Definitely dumb.



    5) Did they talk to her? I didn't watch the whole episode, but my impression was people got infected that spent a while talking to her.

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    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [7]Sep 12, 2011
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    mattgus wrote:
    I recorded this ep and stopped it to come to the forum to see if i was the only one wondering if the writers just got lazy or what? all of what mostcapableone said AND why, if they are "all" quarantined are they not together in a room? running about bumping into each other one on one so they can have these private talks..ie as with getting the gun... there should be a crowd of people. nobody outside is making demands. why are they not investigating who is behind the assult? why out of the blue is one officer in love with chris and why was'nt the doc (abuser)affected by him all of the time? and for that matter nobody seemed to notice him much....we were lead to believe that the trouble and acting captains lockdown were connected,but they were'nt so was it just happenstance that the captain ordered a lockdown and the guys were shooting people exiting the station? why did the assault stop all of a sudden, did i miss something? and why did i ff thru priestly's exit from the show...was it that bad??? lol the whole thing was stupid,but not as dumb as me tunning in next week! which i will do...there just is not enough sci fi on tv.


    I had watched this episode three times hoping that I missed something. However, each time I watched it, I began to notice more breakdowns with the writing of this episode and I felt your point even stronger. It was like the writers just got lazy. People were doing things totally unlike their previously displayed character and they did things that made no sense. Check out these one liners I neglected to add in my first post:

    1) Chris glamour effect not working on the guy holding everybody hostage with the gun...selective glamouring all of a sudden???

    2) Duke thanking the Reverend not yet knowing the full story behind his plot...are you serious????

    3) Parker's almost High School like breakup at the end for reasons that made no sense...or do I need to watch the episode a 4th or 5th time to understand that better???

    4) The wrestler making it to the door before any shot is fired then as he gets into the precinct back door he is hit with a barrage of bullets so that we can see bullets find him....you must be kidding????

    I could go on. But I will stop here and watch next week to hope for a better episode.
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    kanniballl

    [8]Sep 12, 2011
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    MOSTCAPABLEONE wrote:
    4) The wrestler making it to the door before any shot is fired then as he gets into the precinct back door he is hit with a barrage of bullets so that we can see bullets find him....you must be kidding???? I could go on. But I will stop here and watch next week to hope for a better episode.


    Possible, in the following (completely made-up scenario).


    He could've incapacitated the guy(s) that were specifically watching that door and then made a run for it. However he knew that the others would notice him running and try to take him out, but to do so they would have to reposition themselves (ie also run).


    He probably figured it was going to be a close call, and was right.



    OR... just *very* convenient writing.

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    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [9]Sep 12, 2011
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    kanniballl wrote:

    MOSTCAPABLEONE wrote:
    4) The wrestler making it to the door before any shot is fired then as he gets into the precinct back door he is hit with a barrage of bullets so that we can see bullets find him....you must be kidding???? I could go on. But I will stop here and watch next week to hope for a better episode.


    Possible, in the following (completely made-up scenario).


    He could've incapacitated the guy(s) that were specifically watching that door and then made a run for it. However he knew that the others would notice him running and try to take him out, but to do so they would have to reposition themselves (ie also run).


    He probably figured it was going to be a close call, and was right.



    OR... just *very* convenient writing.



    I like how you prefaced your thought by saying "completely made-up scenario".

    And I would agree with you to say just "very" convenient writing. If you remember, the bad guys had people stationed outside and all around the precinct. I find it very difficult to believe he was able to take out all of the shooters as they were stationed on roof tops and in the streets and was watching the entire building. Also, as he ran into the precinct, he shouted something to the effect, "They are coming!" or "They are right behind me!" Then, as he closed the door behind himself the shooting began. Which is strange as the only way they could be chasing him is if they physically saw him. Is that shooting people on " FIRST SIGHT". Who shoots at a person on first sight after they chase them into a building and they close the door behind themselves?

    Also, the writers in my opinion made a mistake trying to let the viewers know that Duke was a no shoot. The way it was done made the people outside the precinct seem extremely organized and somewhat trained (with their walkee talkees). If that's the case, how did the wrestler make it to the precinct?

    Honestly, I think the writers were fixated on trying to show the viewers the wrestler's "troubles" and didn't think of a more clever way of demonstrating it. Very disappointing.
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    WCSU1987

    [10]Sep 12, 2011
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    I am not sure anyone made not of this. Was the people outside kept saying is it him is it him. Then when Nathan opened the door they said take him down. Then Edge came in. The question is the Rev. the one in control or someone above Rev. Other is I think Duke is basically pulling a con on the Rev. to gather more information. See what happens.

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    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [11]Sep 13, 2011
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    WCSU1987 wrote:

    I am not sure anyone made not of this. Was the people outside kept saying is it him is it him. Then when Nathan opened the door they said take him down. Then Edge came in. The question is the Rev. the one in control or someone above Rev. Other is I think Duke is basically pulling a con on the Rev. to gather more information. See what happens.



    That's not what happened with Dwight (Edge). Nathan tried to reach Dwight (Edge) on the walkee talkee and was unable. As Nathan walked towards the back door with the gun drawn that Parker gave him, Dwight (Edge) pulled the door open quickly ran in and said, "They're coming, get back!" The door closes on its on behind Dwight (Edge), then a barrage of bullets come through the door all hitting Dwight's bullet proof vest. You hear a car peeling off and away in the background.

    As far as the Rev. being the one in control or having someone above him, Evie told Nathan that the Rev. was one of them while he was questioning her and asking her why she sold him out. So we know there are others, however, we don't know any hierarchy. Also, for me, I do want to know who is pulling the strings, however, for the moment, I am now more interested in what makes Duke so important or special that people will devise such an elaborate scheme around him.
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    SheWhoTangles

    [12]Sep 15, 2011
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    I like the kind of episode that if you blink, you might miss something! I thought there were a lot of surprises, ones placed where they were for good reasons.



    For starters, Duke saw the text on Evi's phone and, in a move I thought really showed how much his friendship with Nathan means to him, Duke didn't approach her himself on the issue—he waited and filled in Nathan the next day for them to confront her together. Wow, betraying Nathan's attempt to defend the troubled actually means that much to Duke. Could this mean he isn't going to the dark side with Rev?


    The scene with Evi and Nathan, then Duke, left me wondering how Rev found her once she got herself in too deep and who else is behind the scenes (and helping the Rev from the outside) and feeding the frenzy to rile up the troubled as much as possible.


    Evi did what she did because she was forced by someone to think Duke would be in danger, but the unknown bad guys covered their bases by not telling her more. Smart on their part, as when she was found out, no one believed or trusted her no matter what she said (making her very expendable—hence no need for the bad guys to protect her). I was upset that she ran outside to get herself killed, but she might have thought she was going to die anyway and my guess is, she figured she was safe because she was feeding them info on Duke and his friends. That worked out great, Evi, didn't it?


    So the score goes: Evi, 0; the Rev's sniper friends, 1.


    Whoever Duke is made him one person on the kill list the shooters were told about and were told not to shoot. If the showdown got that far, I suspect a shootout would have resulted in just Duke (and maybe the new chief if he hadn't quickly croaked) the only ones walking out alive.



    The Duke and Nathan storyline is getting more intense, and I liked that the trouble trapping them in the building offered a convenient showdown opportunity for the guys. (Keeping the guys out the line of fire by never actually having them personally interact with our troubled woman helped keep their little storyline their own during the building's lockdown.) Nathan also saw Duke loose a 2nd woman he cared about. I thought Nathan looked pretty upset after he knocked out Duke and at the jail cell later.


    But Duke's scene at the end… oh, I really hate the Rev… I could see the wheels turning as he nearly let the Rev walk away without saying a word after that 'worthy' comment. But looking down at Evi's body, Duke knew he'd never find out why Evi died or what he was supposed to be to these people seeking him for some 'purpose' unless, of course, he can find some way to get closer. Duke's 'thank you' nearly had me hurling with disgust when the words emerged from his lips, but the Rev has all the answers Duke is looking for about Evi, his dad, and Duke's future in Haven. I think he's going to play the Rev the way they played Evi, but Duke may have to work really hard to convince the Rev he's chosen the dark side before he gets the info he wants.



    The betrayal by Chris was less shocking to me. He has proven repeatedly he lacks compassion and concern for anything other than what immediately interests him. He wanted out of the station for his own self preservation; Chris was an idiot. On the floor with a gun pressed to her head Audrey was totally ripped angry mad, and I was thrilled to see her ticked at Chris and his selfish, thoughtless, once again reckless behavior toward others and in a time and place where Audrey couldn't ignore his behavior as he risked many lives this time, not just his own. In the last episode with Chris included, Audrey got a lot dumped on her shoulders worrying about getting those she cared about getting hurt if she couldn't protect them. This episode she learned, among other things, Chris was more dangerous for her, making officially dumping him a pleasure to watch.



    I like the scene with Dwight. There were only 3 snipers I thought from what Dwight said, and help on the way from the Sheriff on their way. Dwight had no trouble monitoring radio talk, I'm sure the guys didn't either. (With the new chief dead, there might not have been anyone left to tell them what to do on the immediate scene.) Dwight seemed like someone with enough ability to avoid being seen by the 3 men he had spotted. The others might not have been in position yet or comfortable about storming a police department with others on the way. I think they were looking for Nathan to kill at the door, as he's in the way with Duke... I liked how the introduced Dwight's trouble. Hoping he'll have lots to tell us in the next episode about Haven's past... maybe even family stories with Lucy events?

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    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [13]Sep 16, 2011
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    "Evi did what she did because she was forced by someone to think Duke would be in danger, but the unknown bad guys covered their bases by not telling her more. Smart on their part, as when she was found out, no one believed or trusted her no matter what she said (making her very expendable-hence no need for the bad guys to protect her). I was upset that she ran outside to get herself killed, but she might have thought she was going to die anyway and my guess is, she figured she was safe because she was feeding them info on Duke and his friends. That worked out great, Evi, didn't it?"

    I am not buying it. Evi's involvement and actions in that episode made no sense. If Evi was so concerned about Duke being in danger, how come she didn't come completely clean about everything she knew when Duke busted her?

    Also, her walking outside defies all logic. How can she feel that she was safe when she knew it was orders to shoot on sight anyone who left the precinct? Evi appeared to be quite cunning and resourceful. Keeping this in mind and knowing that she fed the people outside information about Duke, wouldn't she have thought her knowledge was reason enough to make them want to shoot her to keep her quiet?
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    SheWhoTangles

    [14]Sep 16, 2011
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    Quote from MostCapableone: "I am not buying it. Evi's involvement and actions in that episode made no sense. If Evi was so concerned about Duke being in danger, how come she didn't come completely clean about everything she knew when Duke busted her?

    Also, her walking outside defies all logic. How can she feel that she was safe when she knew it was orders to shoot on sight anyone who left the precinct? Evi appeared to be quite cunning and resourceful. Keeping this in mind and knowing that she fed the people outside information about Duke, wouldn't she have thought her knowledge was reason enough to make them want to shoot her to keep her quiet?" Evi's action are incomprehensible if she really loved Duke, but the fact that she's deceived Duke before and had again makes me doubt the smartness she was credited with. I agree with an earlier statement that she was freaking out and scared and not thinking clearly. As soon as she stepped outside, we expected her to be shot--and silencing her, as you said, would be the best way to keep her quiet. I wondered if maybe they had the place bugged, but as yet, we haven't seen any hints of that--though I can't help but remember Max (who was troubled like Nathan) was working with the Rev against other troubled. (It wouldn't surprise me to find a troubled-traitor feeding info to the Rev and wonder if a message couldn't have been relayed to Evi so she would think she was safe... but that would be me writing the episode, not them.) I think any redemption of Evi's behavior or actions will have to come later, if at all, in the season when Duke starts getting some answers. Don't hate me for liking Evi. I thought she was a character that would have been spilling some of the beans once she was found out. I'm very upset she's out. I liked her, but I think her death is going to prompt Duke from sitting back and following the moves of others in the show to making some moves, aggressive moves, against those that are threatening him and his friends in Haven. I enjoyed this episode and I'm really looking forward to the next one.
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    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [15]Sep 16, 2011
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    SheWhoTangles wrote:
    Quote from MostCapableone: "I am not buying it. Evi's involvement and actions in that episode made no sense. If Evi was so concerned about Duke being in danger, how come she didn't come completely clean about everything she knew when Duke busted her?

    Also, her walking outside defies all logic. How can she feel that she was safe when she knew it was orders to shoot on sight anyone who left the precinct? Evi appeared to be quite cunning and resourceful. Keeping this in mind and knowing that she fed the people outside information about Duke, wouldn't she have thought her knowledge was reason enough to make them want to shoot her to keep her quiet?" Evi's action are incomprehensible if she really loved Duke, but the fact that she's deceived Duke before and had again makes me doubt the smartness she was credited with. I agree with an earlier statement that she was freaking out and scared and not thinking clearly. As soon as she stepped outside, we expected her to be shot--and silencing her, as you said, would be the best way to keep her quiet. I wondered if maybe they had the place bugged, but as yet, we haven't seen any hints of that--though I can't help but remember Max (who was troubled like Nathan) was working with the Rev against other troubled. (It wouldn't surprise me to find a troubled-traitor feeding info to the Rev and wonder if a message couldn't have been relayed to Evi so she would think she was safe... but that would be me writing the episode, not them.) I think any redemption of Evi's behavior or actions will have to come later, if at all, in the season when Duke starts getting some answers. Don't hate me for liking Evi. I thought she was a character that would have been spilling some of the beans once she was found out. I'm very upset she's out. I liked her, but I think her death is going to prompt Duke from sitting back and following the moves of others in the show to making some moves, aggressive moves, against those that are threatening him and his friends in Haven. I enjoyed this episode and I'm really looking forward to the next one.


    Evi demonstrated smartness up until that episode. She had Duke completely fooled about her intentions. Duke is not dumb in fact he is quite suspicious and yet he knew absolutely nothing. A chance text message gave her away. I love this show but I fail to see any enjoyable part of that particular episode. It was just too poorly written. We shouldn't have to speculate on a lot of maybes and might haves to make a show appear to make sense or seem better.
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    SheWhoTangles

    [16]Sep 16, 2011
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    I can agree to disagree with you. An opinion is an opinion and a preference is a preference. I like being able to guess at the possibilities of a show and enjoy the questions of what can/could happen. Keeps things from becoming predictable for me.


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    MOSTCAPABLEONE

    [17]Sep 17, 2011
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    SheWhoTangles wrote:

    I can agree to disagree with you. An opinion is an opinion and a preference is a preference. I like being able to guess at the possibilities of a show and enjoy the questions of what can/could happen. Keeps things from becoming predictable for me.




    Agreed. However, for me, opinions backed up with supporting details opposed to opinions backed up by feelings carry more weight towards guessing at the possibilities of a show and enjoying the quality of its presentation. The quality of the writing of a show does not have to be lowered to make the show less predictable.
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