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FOX (ended 2012)

How many Jews are there?

Percentage of Jewish ppl on House

  • Avatar of doarpr

    doarpr

    [41]Apr 12, 2009
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    FurryA wrote:
    This has no relevance to House at all.

    Exactly.
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  • Avatar of silverlukas

    silverlukas

    [42]Apr 12, 2009
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    doarpr wrote:
    Not only that that's how it goes, the post I posted earlier to support this was deleted - while all this offensive thread and original posts are still here... Quite pathetic.

    I wrote my last post before I read your well-put thoughts about the way it is provocative. And I agree, it can be considered provocative, and it indeed is suspicious whether it is made out of completely "pure" interest. But... there's no real evidence that it's not. Every sentence of the OP is quite politely phrased. S/he may be sincere about his motives or may have other unspoken motives for doing the thread, but the later is just a guess, a hypothesis. You may think that the thread is hypocritical, unnecessary, suspicious. But you can't call people "to get their semi-antisemitic threads out of here" just on a guess and be surprised if it's deleted. The last sentence of the post of yours (sorry if the quote wasn't precise) they have deleted was clearly an offence, de facto an offence. And people are innocent unless it's proven otherwise. That's imo the reason they've deleted your post.

    FurryA wrote:
    If you replace the word Jews in the question with blacks, asians, etc you would be offended. Having faced racism all my life I know a racist when I heard the words.
    Yes, that's what it is all about. Threads about jews/blacks etc. inevitably are called racist because they SOUND racist.

    But "if you replace the words" with... dead, married or something like that it was going to be OK, isn't it? If the thread was about is it statistically natural that two young doctors died for two years and a third one is sick - it was going to be OK. If we were discussing is it normal that only one of the characters is married, it was going to be completely OK. I guess we've done all of these already.

    I'm very sorry that I carried on this discussion for so long. The funny thing is that there's a good chance that all of us here have only good intentions towards Jews and we are in a war although we are on the same side. *waving the white flag beggingly*

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  • Avatar of vampiredawn

    vampiredawn

    [43]Apr 12, 2009
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    doarpr wrote:
    FurryA wrote:
    This has no relevance to House at all.
    Exactly.

    Yes it has.

    Ironic, while people here call everyone racist for even mentioning the number of Jews on a tv show, gay people on Amazon. com actually WANT their literature to be labeled as gay literature without calling anyone homophobes and are objecting, like the rest of us openminded people, that Amazon are discriminating against them by removing gay romance/themed novels from sales rank lists and other searches Oh world, you amuse me

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  • Avatar of anmakus

    anmakus

    [44]Apr 12, 2009
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    FurryA wrote:
    There are lies, damn lies - and statistics. You can't have a question that asks if this is a fair representation of the population without knowing that percentage in the first place. This has no relevance to House at all.

    And out of your 3 posts, how many are about House exactly?

    Seriously, you need to take it easy... No one here is trying to eliminate all minorities on or off the show.

    Edited on 04/12/2009 2:20pm
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  • Avatar of shui3

    shui3

    [45]Apr 12, 2009
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    silverlukas I'm pretty certain not one person here is for racial hatred.
    The only reason we're arguing here is because we don't agree on whether this topic is insulting or not to the Jews. I personally didn't sense any hostility in OP's post and for me something is racist when a race is judged and compared to others with negative intentions. This isn't the case here so really,it's a moot point by now.
    It has to do with House in the terms that it shows that the show isn't heavily biased on Jews and as the OP wrote,characters are people first and their religious views and background aren't defining them.
    Edited on 04/12/2009 2:21pm
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  • Avatar of doarpr

    doarpr

    [46]Apr 12, 2009
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    silverlukas wrote:
    But you can't call people "to get their semi-antisemitic threads out of here" just on a guess and be surprised if it's deleted.

    I was paraphrasing on the line posted by the person who started this thread, in his answer to Olgkap - and I quote: "So plz take your semi-offended nature away and try to participate.", which I find just as insulting. I wasn't surprised my post was deleted - I was surprised to see this whole thread wasn't deleted in the first place and still exists.

    As I said, "counting the Jews", which is the sole purpose of this thread, has no merit on it's own and has nothing to do with House - the plot, the characters and other topics we're supposed to discuss here. I've been here long enough and I know for sure there were no threads which counted Gays, blacks, Bi's or whatever "minority" and definitely was never put or phrased the the way it's done here.

    If you're still sure that the topic of ""Percentage of Jewish ppl on House are" with the options of

    More than there should be based on national percentage

    Less than there should be based on national percentage

    The right amount considering supposed location

    Right amount considering the show's main occupation

    is NOT about racism and doesn't consist racist stereotypes, then by all means, enjoy this thread to the fullest.

    I still think it is racist and insulting to anyone with some sensitivity, and think I have the right to speak my mind about it, just as the ones who so eagerly support this thread do.

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  • Avatar of vampiredawn

    vampiredawn

    [47]Apr 12, 2009
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    There are more positives than negatives in that poll, so I don't see where this negative angle is supposed to be
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  • Avatar of silverlukas

    silverlukas

    [48]Apr 13, 2009
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    doarpr wrote:
    As I said, "counting the Jews", which is the sole purpose of this thread, has no merit on it's own and has nothing to do with House - the plot, the characters and other topics we're supposed to discuss here.

    Even if we assume that it has nothing to do with the show (except the show), that's a reason the thread to be considered as off-topic, but not yet racist. If the thread was about counting the obese patients and comparing it to the national percentage of obese people in USA/location/occupation would you call out against its existence? What about the same thread, but about people of Art, or younger than 30, or having high education? I think it's clear that the premise that Jews are a different object for discussion is after all the reason to consider such threads as different. "admit it admit it admit it admit it admit it" or throw a bottle and let's get out of here

    doarpr wrote:
    I still think it is racist and insulting to anyone with some sensitivity, and think I have the right to speak my mind about it, just as the ones who so eagerly support this thread do.

    Of course you have a right. And as I see they havn't deleted the following posts of yours, imo because they are in a different tone, though of the same position. (if I was administrator I wouldn't have deleted your post anyway because I appreciate the support between you and Olgkap, but I was going to be a lousy administrator) As for me I was arguing with you because I thought your opinion is arguable - for me that means that it's not completely right and at the same time logical and worthy enough for an interesting discussion.

    And I was trying to give exactly logical arguments. But I can't fight with "it's racist for anyone with some sensitivity". I thought the question whether a thread should be labelled racist should be a matter of reason, not senses. I might be wrong though. I'd understand you if you don't answer

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  • Avatar of nameless1822

    nameless1822

    [49]Apr 13, 2009
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    [/QUOTE] Cuddy is prominently Jewish; Taub is implied though it hasn't been confirmed. Given the burial service, it's clear that Kutner was not Jewish. No other main character is purported to be.[/QUOTE]

    Wilson is also jewish.

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  • Avatar of beowulf579

    beowulf579

    [50]Apr 13, 2009
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    Wow...leave a few days and blam!
    I thin a few things have been learn;
    1. That the number of Jewish characters stay within the realm of statistical probabbility.
    2. That topics on race, minorities, religions..etc are powder kegs.

    What really stikes me is the hypocritical nature I am seeing in this thread. I asked a straight forward kind of question. Didn't mean to offend anyone and I didn't. Those that were offended would have found something to upset them anyway. And anyway...they lash out at me and tried to paint me in some negative light. Some even tried to make it out that since I haven't seen every ep of House that I probably shouldn't be writing much.
    Now here comes the hypocrisy, Have you all actually watched House yourself? The namesake of the show rants racist remarks all the time...and he includes those of Jewish faith or heritage in those. He doesn't apologize for those remarks ad continues to make more. But yet...you are loyal watchers of that show. I find that quite interesting.

    Thanks again to those that dicussed the thread. I am sure there could be more interesting views on the characters, but I'm not sure if we should try and have them.
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  • Avatar of doarpr

    doarpr

    [51]Apr 13, 2009
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    silverlukas wrote:
    Even if we assume that it has nothing to do with the show (except the show), that's a reason the thread to be considered as off-topic, but not yet racist. If the thread was about counting the obese patients and comparing it to the national percentage of obese people in USA/location/occupation would you call out against its existence? What about the same thread, but about people of Art, or younger than 30, or having high education?
    Well, let's agree to discuss that the minute we will indeed see such threads? So far, this thread is the only one I can recall which "counts the numbers" and uses racial stereotypes in such a blod manner.

    silverlukas wrote:
    I think it's clear that the premisethat Jews are a different object for discussion is after all the reason to consider such threads as different. "admit it admit it admit it admit it admit it" or throw a bottle and let's get out of here
    House: "Welcome to the world. Everyone's different, everyone gets treated differently." I think you would agree that there's a reason why (most) people don't use the N word when they refer to African-Americans, or why certain non-pc words and attitudes towards gays/women/disabled people/name the minority have been almost abolished. I don't have to admit that "Counting Jews" does have certain very unpleasant (to most) associations - any history book will tell you that. And I'm glad I don't have to "throw a bottle" - but I most certainly will be happy to get out of here...

    silverlukas wrote:
    And I was trying to give exactly logical arguments. But I can't fight with "it's racist for anyone with some sensitivity". I thought the question whether a thread should be labelled racist should be a matter of reason, not senses. I might be wrong though. I'd understand you if you don't answer
    I don't claim to be nothing but logical - human beings are, well, humans - not robots... A discussion about prejudice and racial stereotypes is bound to also be about beliefs, cultural background and emotions. So I can only suggest that rather then try and fight such an argument - try to think about how it feels.

    Edited on 04/13/2009 4:08pm
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  • Avatar of beowulf579

    beowulf579

    [52]Apr 13, 2009
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    "So far, this thread is the only one I can recall which "counts the numbers" and uses racial stereotypes in such a blod manner."

    I really don't see what the problem is on knowing how many characters are of a certain faith, ethnicity or culture in a show. I mean we could ignore that important detail I guess and focus on the characters sexuality, genetics and drug habits. I mean...let's hope no one out there would be offended by any of those topics.
    But what bothers me here is the generalizations....who has used any racial stereotypes? So far it seems those offended are the ones that have implied stereotypes.

    In the end, I think that ppl of Jewish ancestry or faith have had a big impact on television..though usually don't get directly represented by the main characters of those televison shows. Can anyone out there name another American show other than House that has main characters representing the Jewish ppl?
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  • Avatar of olgkap

    olgkap

    [53]Apr 13, 2009
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    beowulf579 wrote:

    Thanks again to those that dicussed the thread.

    You are very welcome.

    beowulf579 wrote:
    In the end, I think that ppl of Jewish ancestry or faith have had a big impact on television..though usually don't get directly represented by the main characters of those televison shows. Can anyone out there name another American show other than House that has main characters representing the Jewish ppl?

    Yes, and Hoeech already kindly answered that question of yours...So it's time to move on and create other promised threads. Have fun.Goodbye.

    Edited on 04/13/2009 5:18pm
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  • Avatar of doarpr

    doarpr

    [54]Apr 13, 2009
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    beowulf579 wrote:
    So far it seems those offended are the ones that have implied stereotypes.

    Riiiight - what's so stereotypical about asking "what is the right amount of Jewish people on the show?"

    And what's so stereotypical about asking if the "right amount" of Jews is o.k. "considering the show's main occupation?" Well, we all know Jews are either doctors or lawyers - nothing stereotypical about that...

    And how nice it is to find out that at least 7 people here chose the first option - i.e. "there are more Jews then there should be based on national percentage"... So, to indulge those - which characters should the show eliminate based on their Jewish origins? Wilson? Cuddy? Taub?

    But why stop here? Let's see - what's the right amount of sick Jews that should be admitted in the ER? And how about the clinic? since the visits there are shorter, maybe a few more Jews will be allowed?

    What a lovely and enlightening discussion this is.

    I just hope I didn't hurt your feelings somehow - it wasn't my intention at all. I'm just pointing facts here, that's all.

    Edited on 04/13/2009 5:40pm
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  • Avatar of beowulf579

    beowulf579

    [55]Apr 13, 2009
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    doarpr wrote:

    beowulf579 wrote:
    So far it seems those offended are the ones that have implied stereotypes.

    Riiiight - what's so stereotypical about asking "what is the right amount of Jewish people on the show?"

    And what's so stereotypical about asking if the "right amount" of Jews is o.k. "considering the show's main occupation?" Well, we all know Jews are either doctors or lawyers - nothing stereotypical about that...

    And how nice it is to find out that at least 7 people here chose the first option - i.e. "there are more Jews then there should be based on national percentage"... So, to indulge those - which characters should the show eliminate based on their Jewish origins? Wilson? Cuddy? Taub?

    But why stop here? Let's see - what's the right amount of sick Jews that should be admitted in the ER? And how about the clinic? since the visits there are shorter, maybe a few more Jews will be allowed?

    What a lovely and enlightening discussion this is.

    I just hope I didn't hurt your feelings somehow - it wasn't my intention at all. I'm just pointing facts here, that's all.



    Don't worry my friend...you have no power to upset me in any way.
    But lets go through your questions and thoughts shall we:

    You state, "what is the right amount of Jewish people on the show"
    See...no one actually asked it in that manner, so you are O'reillying the statement. No one asked what the "right" amount is. I asked:
    A: The right amount considering supposed location
    B: Right amount considering the show's main occupation
    Now I do apologize that you don't understand what the question has to do with. You see...there are these funny things called percentages. I suggest you look up this term and apply it to the questions.

    Next you go on with, ""there are more Jews then there should be based on national percentage"... So, to indulge those - which characters should the show eliminate based on their Jewish origins? "
    Again...you are doing the implying when there is no reason. So this is up to you to decide. I'd suggest that you look up the national averages, state averages and so forth and do a comparison. That's what this was about.

    Then you say, "What a lovely and enlightening discussion this is."
    It could have been...and was with a few ppl. But alas...some had to come in and yelling "fire" in the crowded theatre.

    And yes..in a manner olgkap, Hoeech did answer it. But if I recall...there wasn't a show mentioned that had a higher percentage...right? So *gasp* there was point to be made then. I'll let you all decide what that point it. House could figure it out.

    Hmmm...I would mention that none of the characters seem to be celebrating a certain major holiday. If the show is following the same time frame as we are. But I would be afraid of mentioning relevant points about certain characters...might anger someone
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  • Avatar of doarpr

    doarpr

    [56]Apr 14, 2009
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    beowulf579 wrote:
    You state, "what is the right amount of Jewish people on the show" See...no one actually asked it in that manner, so you are O'reillying the statement. No one asked what the "right" amount is. I asked: A: The right amount considering supposed location B: Right amount considering the show's main occupation

    So if you ask about the right amount considering location and occupation, then it's not about "the right amount" and it's not stereotypical at all... I wonder who's really "O'reillying" now.

    And if 7 board participates choose the option of "the percentage of Jews is more then it should be", it is again not stereotypical or racist at all...

    Oh well, enjoy keep thinking that there's nothing wrong with that and all is well.

    Edited on 04/14/2009 12:53am
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  • Avatar of anmakus

    anmakus

    [57]Apr 14, 2009
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    doarpr wrote:

    silverlukas wrote:
    Even if we assume that it has nothing to do with the show (except the show), that's a reason the thread to be considered as off-topic, but not yet racist. If the thread was about counting the obese patients and comparing it to the national percentage of obese people in USA/location/occupation would you call out against its existence? What about the same thread, but about people of Art, or younger than 30, or having high education?
    Well, let's agree to discuss that the minute we will indeed see such threads? So far, this thread is the only one I can recall which "counts the numbers" and uses racial stereotypes in such a blod manner.

    Actually, there was a thread last summer about the number of blue-eyed people. I'll try to dig here for the link but I can't promise anything. But I am pretty sure that no one complained about it.

    Edit: Found it here As I said no one was calling anyone a racist...

    Edited on 04/14/2009 2:09am
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  • Avatar of doarpr

    doarpr

    [58]Apr 14, 2009
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    anmakus wrote:
    Actually, there was a thread last summer about the number of blue-eyed people. I'll try to dig here for the link but I can't promise anything. But I am pretty sure that no one complained about it.

    Edit: Found it here As I said no one was calling anyone a racist...

    I do admire the length you'll go to prove the trivia points I was making, while totally ignoring the more important ones. We all have our priorities.

    As for the theard - I'm just guessing no one was calling anyone a racist, because there's no "blue eyed people" race?

    But I can see that some, myself included, did hint the whole idea was pretty stupid - so maybe we can learn something from that too...

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  • Avatar of anmakus

    anmakus

    [59]Apr 14, 2009
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    doarpr wrote:

    anmakus wrote:
    Actually, there was a thread last summer about the number of blue-eyed people. I'll try to dig here for the link but I can't promise anything. But I am pretty sure that no one complained about it.

    Edit: Found it here As I said no one was calling anyone a racist...

    I do admire the length you'll go to prove the trivia points I was making, while totally ignoring the more important ones. We all have our priorities.

    As for the theard - I'm just guessing no one was calling anyone a racist, because there's no "blue eyed people" race?

    But I can see that some, myself included, did hint the whole idea was pretty stupid - so maybe we can learn something from that too...

    Trivial points are closely connected to the big one - is "counting minorities" wrong? I'm saying that you are being picky about what's offensive and what isn't. Even though you did point out the idea was stupid, you never said it was discriminating against people who have lighter eyes by discussing how many of them are there.

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  • Avatar of doarpr

    doarpr

    [60]Apr 14, 2009
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    anmakus wrote:
    Trivial points are closely connected to the big one - is "counting minorities" wrong? I'm saying that you are being picky about what's offensive and what isn't. Even though you did point out the idea was stupid, you never said it was discriminating against people who have lighter eyes by discussing how many of them are there.

    Of course trivial points are connected, but they're still not the major issue and only a small part of the argument. I may be picky, but I also still don't see the complete parallel comparison you're making between blue eyed people and Jews. I know it's all one big joke for you, but if you really think that couning the "right amount" of each said categories is on the very same level - then I can only feel sad about your lack of historical references and associations.

    I guess it'll be better if we'll agree to disagree, but in any case, it would be nice if you'd notice that you're just as picky - by choosing to focus on half of the sentence I wrote and ignoring the rest of it. So just a quick reminder: "So far, this thread is the only one I can recall which "counts the numbers" and uses racial stereotypes in such a bold manner."

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