Jericho Forums

CBS (ended 2008)

Official Discussion Thread: "Patriots and Tyrants" (Spoilers)

  • Avatar of DrLar

    DrLar

    [21]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 04/18/06
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    They could do a spin-off show called "The next civil war" or something.... Jericho did it's job and now the "real" fight begins, since it seems the war will take some years there's a lot of material... we of course see Jake and Hawkins in the front lines and Jericho mentioned some times..
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  • Avatar of gandalfwhite14

    gandalfwhite14

    [22]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 07/19/03
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    It felt way too rushed... I'll take it, but I hated the ending. I want to see the story of the War, not just how it started. My favorite line though: "Whatever you're carrying better be good because I think I just declared war on Cheyenne."
    Edited on 03/26/2008 12:09pm
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  • Avatar of PeelingSunburn

    PeelingSunburn

    [23]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 04/12/07
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    Sad to see the show go, but for different reasons then those stated thus far in the thread.
    This show was a commentary, moreover a reflection of a nation at war. The dialogues and "soap opera" feel that many hated are what make this story unique beyond the possibility of a domestic disaster like the bombs destroying the nation. Sure the latter is more glamourous and exciting, but over in Iraq there's countless lives that were royally screwed because of our invasion. Kids in love, husbands cheating on wives who were pregnant, regional governments trying to maintain power and most importantly-REAL PEOPLE. I applaud Jericho for giving the fans what they wanted in their closing act, and I enjoyed the heck out of it, but at the same time through no fault of their own, the exposition employed by the writers surely wouldn't have been present had the story had a chance to play itself out as originally intended.
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  • Avatar of cowboy2831

    cowboy2831

    [24]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 06/14/05
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    ernienet wrote:
    All I can say is, don't mess with Texas!

    You got that right, brother!

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  • Avatar of manwee

    manwee

    [25]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 05/03/04
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    Join the Sci-Fi forum and discuss everything there, so they see the interest and effort we all make to keep Jericho alive!

    Here's the link:

    http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showforum=149

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  • Avatar of nomatic11

    nomatic11

    [26]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 02/19/06
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    Did anyone notice the subtle messages in the show?

    For example, when Jakes plane was saved by the two Texan Air National guard, they were flying directly into a storm. A bit of foreshadowing of the dark days ahead?

    Did anyone else notice the wink wink of the epic Texan Battle at the Alamo? Two men took on the Mexican army. One of them was shot down in a blaze of glory, while defending the Alamo to the death with the likes of Davy Crockett. He stood his ground and delayed the Mexicans from moving further into Texas. The second man raced ahead of the invading Mexican army to round up reinforcements and bring the cavalary or good guys into the fight. This eventually led to the independence of Texas from Mexico. Does this sound like two people you may know in Jericho? The Texan legends were Sam Houston (later President of Texas twice, and governor of Tennessee) and William Travis (Alamo).

    The wink wink was when the Texas ambassador ran out the embassy front door introduced himself as, "Sam Travis."

    Don't mess with Texas...

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  • Avatar of jackjustice

    jackjustice

    [27]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 05/01/07
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    I was left wanting.

    What was Valentes' real role in all of this and why was Sarah helping? Also, why turn on Hawkins? If the Allied States Government had nothing to do with the attacks, why cover it up and destroy the evidence? When did the "old" government become the good guys? I thought that was why we got bombed to begin with. Why was there such an air of secrecy around Jakes military experience?

    P.S.

    Texas Power.
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  • Avatar of matt729

    matt729

    [28]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 02/14/08
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    Dandy, Delightful, First-Class, Five-Star, and Top-Notch all come to mind about tonights episode, "Patriots and Tyrants"! This season started excellent and it finished terrific! The cast, writers, and producers should all have their heads held high for the quality, action, drama, and the humor of this season! You guys are all great in my book!

    Jake, How GREAT was it for him to be the HERO once again, he started out being the hero and finished as THE HERO! He saved Hawkins from being killed, drove the get away car, and then flew that plane all the way to Texas! Loved how calm he stayed when the ASA threatned to shoot them down! Everything he did was talked about in prevous episodes, flying, driving get away cars, and being a hero!

    Hawkins, The guy is top notch in my book! He was going to sacarifice his life to get that bomb to Texas! He had one mission and he accomplished it! Even after being shot he still was not going to let the mission fail! If every REAL GOV official was as patriotic, strong willed, and smart as him we would have no problems! Loved how at the end he asked Jake, "how does it feel", and then Jake answers "How does it feel about what" and Hawkins replies, "making history!" It truly gave me chills! He is a HERO just as much as Jake in my book!

    Gray, Great seeing him back! Loved how he showed up and took down that stupid ASA flag and put Johnston Green's banner/logo up! Also loved how he looked when he got back to Jericho, you could tell that he was sad, mad, and confused on what all went down in Jericho!

    Heather, she was not the "shy" girl in this episode! I loved when she told Beck that he needed to open his eyes and see that the gov he was working for was corrupt! She really came out strong this season and was really another HERO in Jericho!

    Eric, I really started to hate him this season but tonight i loved him! I thought he was going to join in with Constantino, but thank God he din't! He showed that he has a heart and wants to do good and I questioned him early this season!

    Mimi, Did not say much but when she did talk, I loved it! It is amazing how much her character has changed from season 1 to season 2! Loved how she asked Stanley to marry her, again!

    Stanley, great to see how he finally got to lay Bonnie to rest! He also showed signs that he was getting back to normal, which was great to see!

    I have no key questions but a hope that we all get a season three! I am not giving hope because I feel the show will be back somehow, someway, and by some chance it is truly over well, long live Jericho for all the memories, laughs, and cry's, it has been one GREAT ride, but I am still in line, and still waiting, wanting, and needing more!
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  • Avatar of ilee1990

    ilee1990

    [29]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 02/14/08
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    jackjustice wrote:

    I was left wanting.

    What was Valentes' real role in all of this and why was Sarah helping? Also, why turn on Hawkins? If the Allied States Government had nothing to do with the attacks, why cover it up and destroy the evidence? When did the "old" government become the good guys? I thought that was why we got bombed to begin with. Why was there such an air of secrecy around Jakes military experience?

    P.S.

    Texas Power.

    Well to start with, Jake wasn't military. The air of secrecy is that he was a J&R mercenary and he took part in some illegal killings in Iraq. We've known about this for awhile now.

    The Cheyenne government are the people who bombed us. Or more to the point it was Mr. Smith, Valente and J&R that created the plan and executed it. The old government ARE the good guys. That's the point.

    Valente agreed with Smith's point of view, as did Sarah. They are what we call traitors.

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  • Avatar of inspi

    inspi

    [30]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 03/19/06
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    I know this is offtopic atm, but what song or melody is played during the scene in the ambulance (at the end of the episode, around 38:40). This same piano tune was played in the season 1 finale after the death of mayor Green, but I still haven't found it yet.

    Somebody please help me with this one!! Drives me crazy

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  • Avatar of PabloExobar

    PabloExobar

    [31]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 07/08/07
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    Its part of the score done by David Lawrence. I doubt you can find it unless they release a soundtrack CD.
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  • Avatar of ktfahel

    ktfahel

    [32]Mar 27, 2008
    • member since: 07/19/07
    • level: 16
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    • posts: 1,856

    matt729 wrote:
    Dandy, Delightful, First-Class, Five-Star, and Top-Notch all come to mind about tonights episode, "Patriots and Tyrants"! This season started excellent and it finished terrific! The cast, writers, and producers should all have their heads held high for the quality, action, drama, and the humor of this season! You guys are all great in my book!

    Jake, How GREAT was it for him to be the HERO once again, he started out being the hero and finished as THE HERO! He saved Hawkins from being killed, drove the get away car, and then flew that plane all the way to Texas! Loved how calm he stayed when the ASA threatned to shoot them down! Everything he did was talked about in prevous episodes, flying, driving get away cars, and being a hero!

    Hawkins, The guy is top notch in my book! He was going to sacarifice his life to get that bomb to Texas! He had one mission and he accomplished it! Even after being shot he still was not going to let the mission fail! If every REAL GOV official was as patriotic, strong willed, and smart as him we would have no problems! Loved how at the end he asked Jake, "how does it feel", and then Jake answers "How does it feel about what" and Hawkins replies, "making history!" It truly gave me chills! He is a HERO just as much as Jake in my book!

    Gray, Great seeing him back! Loved how he showed up and took down that stupid ASA flag and put Johnston Green's banner/logo up! Also loved how he looked when he got back to Jericho, you could tell that he was sad, mad, and confused on what all went down in Jericho!

    Heather, she was not the "shy" girl in this episode! I loved when she told Beck that he needed to open his eyes and see that the gov he was working for was corrupt! She really came out strong this season and was really another HERO in Jericho!

    Eric, I really started to hate him this season but tonight i loved him! I thought he was going to join in with Constantino, but thank God he din't! He showed that he has a heart and wants to do good and I questioned him early this season!

    Mimi, Did not say much but when she did talk, I loved it! It is amazing how much her character has changed from season 1 to season 2! Loved how she asked Stanley to marry her, again!

    Stanley, great to see how he finally got to lay Bonnie to rest! He also showed signs that he was getting back to normal, which was great to see!

    I have no key questions but a hope that we all get a season three! I am not giving hope because I feel the show will be back somehow, someway, and by some chance it is truly over well, long live Jericho for all the memories, laughs, and cry's, it has been one GREAT ride, but I am still in line, and still waiting, wanting, and needing more!

    What I noticed about most of the scenes listed above was that all of the actors were really giving it all they had. In the scene with Heather & Beck (also with Mimi & Stanley), you can almost see the emotion of having to leave the show. That made for compelling performances all around.

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  • Avatar of Melzias

    Melzias

    [33]Mar 27, 2008
    • member since: 02/11/03
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    Did any JAG fans recognize a familiar face during the episode? I wish we could have seen more of that character * aside from his horrible mustache* .
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  • Avatar of CommanderShiro

    CommanderShiro

    [34]Mar 27, 2008
    • member since: 06/15/05
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    I loved the episode. And I always knew Major Beck had good intentions.
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  • Avatar of jackjustice

    jackjustice

    [35]Mar 27, 2008
    • member since: 05/01/07
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    ilee1990 wrote:
    jackjustice wrote:

    I was left wanting.

    What was Valentes' real role in all of this and why was Sarah helping? Also, why turn on Hawkins? If the Allied States Government had nothing to do with the attacks, why cover it up and destroy the evidence? When did the "old" government become the good guys? I thought that was why we got bombed to begin with. Why was there such an air of secrecy around Jakes military experience?

    P.S.

    Texas Power.

    Well to start with, Jake wasn't military. The air of secrecy is that he was a J&R mercenary and he took part in some illegal killings in Iraq. We've known about this for awhile now.

    The Cheyenne government are the people who bombed us. Or more to the point it was Mr. Smith, Valente and J&R that created the plan and executed it. The old government ARE the good guys. That's the point.

    Valente agreed with Smith's point of view, as did Sarah. They are what we call traitors.

    In what ep. did it state he took part in illegal killings in Iraq? I may have missed that scene.

    Why would Mr. Smith, Valente, and J&R want to blow themselves up in Cheyenne?

    Mr. Smith stated that he was tired of the power J&R had over the "old" government and he was trying to purge it.

    Or maybe i misinterpreted the whole convo. Mr. Smith had with Hawkins in which he stated" I grew tired of the power of J&R, so I tried to destroy them". And "I need the bomb so I can finish them off in Cheyenne."

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  • Avatar of catvmfanaust

    catvmfanaust

    [36]Mar 29, 2008
    • member since: 02/20/07
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    It was mentioned in a couple of episodes that Jake's team killed a small girl in Iraq - when he almost froze to death, he told them he deserved it because of that.

    Smith (did anyone recognise him from a certain show with a ticking clock on a nuecleur weapon??? lol) created a contingency plan that would allow Jennings and Rall to take over America if anyone placed strategic weapons and took out the main centres.

    Valente acted out the plan. Sarah was working for him and not the US Govt when she tried to take out Hawkins.

    Smith then wanted the bomb to take out the remaining govt and J&R people in one go.

    Valente wanted the bomb to destroy it and remove evidence that it was him who sent them in the first place.

    Edited on 03/29/2008 2:22am
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  • Avatar of jackjustice

    jackjustice

    [37]Mar 29, 2008
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    Smith (did anyone recognise him from a certain show with a ticking clock on a nuecleur weapon??? lol) created a contingency plan that would allow Jennings and Rall to take over America if anyone placed strategic weapons and took out the main centres.

    Wasn't that plan created by Jennings and Rall FOR the Department of Defense in 1993? I do not believe it was to be used to destroy the government, but to warn them how a group could do it. I will need to re-watch that scene between Hawkins and Smith.

    And according to Smith, J&R already had control of the government, so why destroy it?


    Valente acted out the plan. Sarah was working for him and not the US Govt when she tried to take out Hawkins

    I must have missed when he ordered the bombing. I thought he was actually making an effort to stop it. Why would he bring Hawkins and a few others on to the team when they were not part of this plan/members of the coup?

    Smith then wanted the bomb to take out the remaining govt and J&R people in one go.

    correct.

    Valente wanted the bomb to destroy it and remove evidence that it was him who sent them in the first place.

    This was never made very clear.

    If someone could attach quotes from the episodes where it ties the entire plot together without added assumptions, it would be most appreciated by all. There seem to be 2 groups on both here and IMDB that believe Valente/J&R did do it, and others(myself included) that believe Smith used the old 1993 plan to remove J&R from the Government, whom he grew to distrust. And Valente/J&R really did not have a hand in the actual bombing.


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    ladybugastryd

    [38]Mar 29, 2008
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    i think the Smith , Valente, J&R thing is that Smith wrote the attack plan right? well he probably wrote it knowing that J&R and Valente would want to blow up cities and take over, Smith knew they would use the plan, so he knew what they would do, so it makes it easier for him to take over, once Valente and J&R did all the dirty work
    He basically made them put themselves in a vulnaruble postion to be easily over thrown
    Kinda like using the bad guys to do the first step, and making his move

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    racergoil89

    [39]Mar 30, 2008
    • member since: 08/21/07
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    Awesome last episode but it only left me wanting more!!! Come on someone PLEASE pick up Jericho!!
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    danharr

    [40]Mar 30, 2008
    • member since: 04/30/05
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    Great ending may have been a short season but at least we got an ending. All aspects I loved and all the characters storylines we're cleaned up perfectly but it would've been nice to see the civil war but oh well.
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