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Flash Vs Superman (who is faster)

  • Avatar of kwydjebo

    kwydjebo

    [21]Oct 24, 2006
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    Points of comic fact.
    1) The Flash does not "Run" to other dimensions, he vibrates across the dimensional walls, and keeps his vibrations in tune with the other dimension. This was established in the 60s with Barry Allen when he vibrated to Earth 2, and met Jay Garrick (That Earth's Flash) whom Barry had read about in comic books (THe explanation was that Comic Writer Gardner Fox was actually viewing the other dimension when he thought he was imagining it and putting it into comic form)...of course multiple earths were removed in the 1985 Crisis.

    2) As of pre-Infinite Crisis, the Flash (Wally West) could move at speeds approaching light speed....to actually hit light speed however would lead to him being sucked into the speed force.

    3) Flash vs Supes....who's faster.....
    Comic wise...First off Supes is (Again Pre-Infinte Crisis) one of the Few heroes capable of super fast speed that did NOT use the speed force (All other speedsters used the speed force) THat said, I believe they established that running, Flash was in fact faster (only just) than SUperman, although Supes could fly faster. JLU-verse wise....I would tend to go by whatever canon they have set up in the shows, and they seem to give Flash the edge for speed (this is likely because making Supes to uber-powerful negates both the need of any other Leaguer, and also because it is hard to make interesting stories for someone so powerful.)

    4) Speed caps on both Supes and Flash have been set over the years for various reasons (In most cases, usually I assume, the REAL reason for any limits was to allow villains to have some way to trump the hero...thus leading the viewer to ask "How is he gonna beat this guy")
    As mentioned, pre Crisis, Superman had become amazing powerful, to the point where he could jugle planets, easily travel through time and move at speeds that were probably in excess of the speed of light.
    The Flash, likewise, had uber speed, and it was established that Barry Allen had complete control of his molecules (The victim of a few transformations this ability came in handy)
    Wally West (The Flash) was limited to just being barely able to break the Sound barrier (When he took up the mantle of The Flash after Barry Allen perished in Crisis). Later Mark Waid revelaed that this was a Mental block of Wally's and he then could go much faster (In one instance he refered to "Moving at Mach 10 (10 times the speed of sound) is a slow crawl")
    Superman's speed (To my knowledge) has never been given a clear maximum, but after his resureection in 1993, he commented "4 hours to fly across country, I used to be able to do it in less than 4 minutes" 5) CURRENT LEVELS.....
    1 year after Infinite Crisis......
    Bart Allen has reluctantly taken up the mantle of Flash. He is the only one using the fabled Speed force (Jay Garrick is suddenly a Metahuman...) He should be plenty fast, although I don't think they've really established just how fast yet.
    Like Wally in JLU and Wally in the Comics (Around issue 100 of the flash) he is afraid to go to fast, lest he be sucked into the speed force, never to return.
    Superman had his power cut off in IC, but it seems to have returned....speed levels...unknown.

    But as long as they call the Flash "The fastest Man Alive" I will always believe Kal-el is at best, number 2 in the department.
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  • Avatar of saiyanman5215

    saiyanman5215

    [22]Oct 26, 2006
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    thanks for the excellent explaination....being away from reading comics on a regular basis since '99 it's hard to tell what's being based on what. Thanks for the information ........

    and I agree with that last line of yours as well .........(as long as we're not using that pre-1985 Supes)
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  • Avatar of The_Question84

    The_Question84

    [23]Nov 1, 2006
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    flash since creation (i may be wrong) but he has always been the faster one
    superman started out "faster than a speeding bullet"
    flash would do the mexican hat dance around the bullet while superman would try and stop it
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  • Avatar of -Redwolf-

    -Redwolf-

    [24]Apr 24, 2007
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    -Blackstar- wrote:
    No contest. Flash is the "Fastest Man Alive", or at least in the DCU. Flash can move at speeds approaching the speed of light, wheras Superman cannot acheive light speed under his own power. Supes' upper limit is the speed of sound.

     

    Do you even know how fast the speed of sound is?  It's around 761 mph a bullet can travel at 2,200 mph.  You know the old saying that Superman is "Faster than a speeding bullet"?  Which means Superman's upper limit is not the speed of sound.  In the comics Superman's upper limit is 99% the speed of light.  A couple of years back when Bart Allen was "Impulse" he told Superman this.  Superman is a step or two slower than the Flash.

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  • Avatar of -Redwolf-

    -Redwolf-

    [25]Apr 24, 2007
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    -Silverstar- wrote:
    Let's compare, shall we? Flash=able to move at lightspeed Superman=can not Flash=able to vibrate the moecules in his body to pass through solid barriers Superman=can not Flash=able to increase his speed to travel into other dimensions Superman=can not Conclusion: This is a no-brainer. Flash is faster.

    You are wrong on one point....

    Yes Flash can reach light speed but Superman is only a step or two below that.  When Bart Allen was still known as Impulse he told Superman that Superman moved at 99% the speed of light.

    Superman also can vibrate his molecules in his body to pass through solid barriers.  It's been shown in comics even recently.

     

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  • Avatar of -Redwolf-

    -Redwolf-

    [26]Apr 24, 2007
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    In the early 2000's when he fought an intelligent Doomsday Superman vibrated his molecules to intangiblity, in which Doomsdays fist passed through his body.  Obvisously Superman doesn't do this trick often but he can do it.  Here is the scan...

    http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/8848/supermanfast8mt1xe.jpg

    Edited on 04/24/2007 9:26am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of -Redwolf-

    -Redwolf-

    [27]Apr 24, 2007
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    I should also add that this scan.  Check out what Superman says about the Flash.

    "Wally is fast enough to see it coming, but not fast enough to do anything about it."

     http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8161/12052005011813pm4dw2ai.jpg

     Of course since the Infinite Crisis things have changed.  I assume Bart Allen is just as fast as Wally was.  As for Superman, I don't know.  Since his powers have returned he's gained "super intelligence" again.  One wonders if his other powers have been amped up aswell.

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    -Silverstar-

    [28]Apr 24, 2007
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    Ooooookay. 

    Let's just continue to act under the hypothesis that Flash is faster than Superman, shall we?. After all, speed is Flash's thing. It's what he does; all of Flash's powers revolve around speed. If Supes could move as fast as Flash, what would be the point of having Flash on the team at all?

    Edited on 04/24/2007 9:38am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of JLU51306

    JLU51306

    [29]Apr 24, 2007
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    -Silverstar- wrote:

    Ooooookay. 

    Let's just continue to act under the hypothesis that Flash is faster than Superman, shall we?. After all, speed is Flash's thing. It's what he does; all of Flash's powers revolve around speed. If Supes could move as fast as Flash, what would be the point of having Flash on the team at all?



    I agree.
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  • Avatar of Pokeysteve

    Pokeysteve

    [30]Apr 25, 2007
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    -Silverstar- wrote:
    Let's compare, shall we?

    Flash=able to move at lightspeed
    Superman=can not

    Flash=able to vibrate the moecules in his body to pass through solid barriers
    Superman=can not

    Flash=able to increase his speed to travel into other dimensions
    Superman=can not

    Conclusion:
    This is a no-brainer. Flash is faster.


    IT.....DEPENDS.....ON.....THE.....CONTINUITY!!!! Lois and Clark TNAS he vibrates his molecules. Precrisis Supes can do light speed. JLU Supes.....he's a pansy compared to other incarnations (except Superman TAS) but in both is WAY quicker then sound.
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    Lena_Wayne15

    [31]Apr 25, 2007
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    Yes, but Silver is describing Post-Crisis's Supes powers. But let it be noted, that is was the Flash, in every instance that discovered the Multiverse. Not Superman. Meaning he has the power to surf the Multiverse.
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    sylent_asassin

    [32]Apr 26, 2007
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    -Redwolf- wrote:
    Superman also can vibrate his molecules in his body to pass through solid barriers.  It's been shown in comics even recently.


    In what comic? I've never seen that. I remember many, MANY years ago Flash and Superman switched powers and Supes was able to vibrate his molecules, but other than that, I don't recall Superman having that ability; Not when he was that horrible Electric Blue and Red or otherwise.
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  • Avatar of Pokeysteve

    Pokeysteve

    [33]Apr 26, 2007
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    He did it once in Lois And Clark The New Adventures Of Superman. He has the ability just never needs to use it.
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    sylent_asassin

    [34]Apr 26, 2007
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    I'm talking in the Comic continuity. Dean Cain could pretty much do anything on Lois and Clark including learning a Kryptonian Martial art that took his people YEARS to learn in 5 minutes and defeating their leader in a battle challenge. If it weren't for Teri Hatcher showing her legs in every episode, I would have never watched L&C.
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    -Silverstar-

    [35]Apr 26, 2007
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    Yeah, it might be best to just stick with the continuities of the comics and the Justice League TV show. The live-action shows, like the Christopher Reeve movies, tended to make it seem like Supes could do anything. I'd hardly consider the power to throw a cellophane imprint of his 'S' shield at someone a canon ability.
    Edited on 04/26/2007 11:54am
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    Pokeysteve

    [36]Apr 26, 2007
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    You guys forget Supes has more abilities then then movie and tv show writers care to use. His intelligence and infa-red vision are always left out. The movies and LaC are way more accurate then any of his cartoons because Supes could do just about anything. He's not "Some-what-cool-man The cellophane thing was weird to me too though. Just came out of no where.
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    sylent_asassin

    [37]Apr 26, 2007
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    As weird as "point and levitate, disappearing" and the ever popular "hypnotic kiss"?
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    Pokeysteve

    [38]Apr 26, 2007
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    Supes never did the point and levitate and i'm still pissed there was no explanation for that. They dumbed him way down for tv shows though. He's probably smarter then Batman. I'm getting S**t for that, but it's true.
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  • Avatar of -Silverstar-

    -Silverstar-

    [39]Apr 26, 2007
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    Pokeysteve wrote:
    Supes never did the point and levitate and i'm still pissed there was no explanation for that. They dumbed him way down for tv shows though. He's probably smarter then Batman. I'm getting S**t for that, but it's true.
    Lest we forget his powers of Super-Coordination and the ability to perform Super-Surgery (which he did on Captain Marvel, Jr.)?

    IMHO, they kind of had to take away some of Superman's powers. It had gotten to the point where he was traveling through time like it was a trip to the grocery store, juggling planets like a circus act and changing the rotation of the Earth when he was a month late with the cable bill. Omnipotent characters don't make for very interesting television. Superhero stories are only interesting when evil and disaster at least stand a chance. Supey already has a lot of detractors who feel that he's too powerful; the guy shouldn't be able to do everything.

    As for Supes being smarter than Batman, Pre-Crisis Supey with his computer-like brain who came from an entire planet of super geniuses might have been smarter, but presently, I'd say they're more or less even in the smarts department, just in different ways. Bats is more street savvy than Supes, and knows more about the human psyche, whereas Superman's energized alien brain processes information very quickly, so he's no slouch intellectually either. Black already elaborated on this point: the producers had to amp up Batman's intellect so he could pull his weight on the team, since he has no superpowers to bring to the table, the best way for him to contribute was to be portrayed as scary-smart.

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    Pokeysteve

    [40]Apr 26, 2007
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    I agree he had way too many powers. We didn't even list them all. I still think it's friggin stupid how they dumbed characters down to make other characters feel special. They should have them all at their fullest. The show would have kicked even more ass! I disagree about Batman though. I think he's one of the three they didn't change (WW & Flash also).
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