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Who is smarter?

  • Avatar of logi

    logi

    [1]Sep 29, 2006
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    I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but can someone please give me an answer? In the series finale, Luthor sais he's a level 12 intellect. Does anyone know what level are Batman, Martian Manhunter and Mr. Terrific?
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    sylent_asassin

    [2]Sep 29, 2006
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    Actually, Metron told Lex that in order to go beyond the Source Wall, he had to be at least a 12th level intellect.

    I believe Batman is more intelligent than J'onn or Mr. Terrific. Not to toot his horn, but not only is he the World's greatest detective, he a scientist and an inventor.

    It could be J'onn if he could simply absorb knowledge like Amazo. Hell, I don't know. I'm sure Wikipedia has the answer somewhere.
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    GoofyGopher121

    [3]Sep 29, 2006
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    Lex had absorbed a good deal of Brainiac's intelligence during the time he was fused with him.

    So the smarts Luthor already had were added with Brainiacs - giving him enough for 12th level status.

    Batman and Jonn are probably just a step behind Luthoriac, but they'd both be smarter then regular Luthor.

    Mr/ Terrific I think falls into the more normalized level of intelligence. It's all a matter of personal preference and opinion to who you think is smartest, though - there's not a real definite answer.

    Hope that helps.
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  • Avatar of logi

    logi

    [4]Sep 29, 2006
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    Yes, of course all that helps, and thanks. I was just wondering if they mentioned their IQ or intellect levels anywhere and I missed them
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  • Avatar of RoboAmish

    RoboAmish

    [5]Oct 14, 2006
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    Batman. In the DC world he is often implied to be the smarrtest person on earth
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    -Blackstar-

    [6]Oct 14, 2006
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    RoboAmish wrote:
    Batman. In the DC world he is often implied to be the smarrtest person on earth


    Funny, I don't recall anyone ever implying that about Batman. Lex Luthor, Ras Al Gul and perhaps Edward Nygma (aka The Riddler) are just as smart as Bruce, if not more so. Bruce is an excellent detective and a shrewd judge of character, but he's not a super genius.

    I'm not denying that Bruce has a big ol' brain on him, but calling him "the smartest person on earth" is pushing it just a tad. If Bruce were really that smart, you might as well start claiming his intellect as a super power. Then he'd be like Gear on Static Shock.
    Edited on 10/16/2006 5:38am
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of phillippejr

    phillippejr

    [7]Oct 15, 2006
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    Batman is smarter then all those guys.Do u see all the stuff he reseaches in his lab and he solves any problem.
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  • Avatar of ezeroe

    ezeroe

    [8]Oct 15, 2006
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    Batman figured out Luthor's plot first at the end of the secind season of JLU

    and Mr. Terrific was able to outsmart Lex/Flash in The great brain robbery back in the watch tower

    J'onn was able to figure out how to defeat Amazo but due to his psychic bond with batman, I cant say if it was his independent effort.

    Of course batman is the smartest guy there but Lex/Braniac has the ultimate processing power and creativity.

    Lex is the smartest of all the villains since Grodd needed his help with practically all the gizmos and he upgraded a lot of villains and simultaneously exploited their weaknesses

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  • Avatar of -Silverstar-

    -Silverstar-

    [9]Oct 16, 2006
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    phillippejr wrote:
    Batman is smarter then all those guys.Do u see all the stuff he reseaches in his lab and he solves any problem.


    Batman's smart, sure, but 'smarter than everyone'? 'Smartest person on Earth'? 'Solves any problem'? That might be pushing it. If Bruce were really that brilliant, you'd think he would've concocted a way to retard his aging process so he wouldn't become a rickety old man in the future and need to hire a protogee.
    Edited on 10/16/2006 5:32am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of phillippejr

    phillippejr

    [10]Oct 16, 2006
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    -Silverstar- wrote:
    phillippejr wrote:
    Batman is smarter then all those guys.Do u see all the stuff he reseaches in his lab and he solves any problem.
    Batman's smart, sure, but 'smarter than everyone'? 'Smartest person on Earth'? 'Solves any problem'? That might be pushing it. If Bruce were really that brilliant, you'd think he would've concocted a way to retard his aging process so he wouldn't become a rickety old man in the future and need to hire a protogee.

    Low blow.So ur acting like superman didn't get old too.He got weaker(even tho he is styill strong).Batman just gave up being batman and told someone else to be batman.Well IMO Batman>> anyone else in justice league.He figured out everyone idendity the day he met them.When hawkgirl people invaded earth he  new everyone's true identity.LOL Flash couldn't believe it.

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    -Blackstar-

    [11]Oct 16, 2006
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    No one said that Superman didn't get older. If you will recall in the Batman Beyond episode titled "The Call", we saw future Superman. He had gotten older, but was still very much active in the superhero biz due to the fact that Kryptonians age slower than humans.


    Phillipejr wrote:
    Well IMO Batman>> anyone else in
    justice league.He figured out everyone idendity the day he met them.When
    hawkgirl people invaded earth he new everyone's true identity.

    All right, let's break this down, shall we?:

    1. Batman found out Superman's identity back in "World's Finest" (Keep in mind also that Supes found out who Batman was by using his X-ray vision in the same episode). Clark and Bruce already knew each other's identities before the League was formed.

    2. John Stewart and Diana don't have secret identities, so there was nothing for Bats to figure out there.

    3. OK, you're a Batfan. That's all fine and grooy, but that doesn't answer the question. The topic of this thread is "Who is smarter?" Not "Which character do you like more?" Whom your favorite League member happens to be is irrelevant to this converstaion. (FYI, Hawkgirl's people are called the Thanagarians.)


    I'm going to say this one more time: I'm NOT saying that Batman isn't smart, just that he's not THE smartest person on the planet! Batman hired someone to build the Batmobile. If he were truly the biggest brain on the planet, he could have built it himself. Bats didn't build the Watchtower either, although his money may have helped to finance it.

    There are several humans and humanoids in the DCU that are just as smart as Bruce, if not smarter. If you're going to declare Bruce Wayne to be THE smartest person alive, then you might as well say that he has a super power: the ability to know everything and to never screw up. Ever.
    Edited on 10/16/2006 3:48pm
    Edited 14 total times.
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  • Avatar of -Silverstar-

    -Silverstar-

    [12]Oct 16, 2006
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    Phillippejr wrote:
    Low blow.So ur acting like superman didn't get old too.He got weaker(even tho he is still strong).


    Um, yeah, I never said that Superman didn't get older. More to the point, I didn't say anything about Superman at all. You brought up Supes for some reason, not me. And that statement wasn't a "low blow", it's the truth. If Batman were truly as uber-brilliant as all that, he would be able to devise a way to defy old age (i.e., a youth serum, a homemeade Lazarus pit, a cybersuit, what have you) and continue to be Batman, since he clearly still possesses the fighting spirit and will to be Batman (as evidenced by the Batman Beyond episode in which Bruce states, "in my subconscious mind, [Bruce] isn't what I call myself.").
    :
    Batman just gave up being batman and told someone else to be batman.

    Incorrect. Batman had to give up being Batman, because he had gotten too old and couldn't do it anymore. Also he didn't tell Terry to be Batman; Terry found out who Bruce was by a series of circumstances and forced himself on Bruce in order to settle his score for the murder of his father. As long as Bruce is alive, HE is Batman in his mind, which only reinforces my original point: that if Bruce were truly "the smartest person on Earth", then he could, and in all likelyhood would, find some way to continue to be Batman. The fact that he ISN'T defying age in the Beyond timeline indicates that he simply doesn't know HOW to. It's lack of ability, not lack of desire, that's keeping Bruce from continuing to be Batman..
    :
    Well IMO Batman>> anyone else in justice
    league.He figured out everyone idendity the day he met them.When
    hawkgirl people invaded earth he new everyone's true identity.LOL
    Flash couldn't believe it.
    OK, your favorite character is Batman. Great. But that's not the subject of this thread. The question being posed here is "Who is the smartest?" not "Who's your favorite?" You're so busy defending Batman that you're not listening to what we're saying. Bruce didn't invent half of the equipment that he employs in his career; he hired others to do so for him. It wasn't Batman who figured out how to remove Darkseid in "Destroyer", it was Luthor. It wasn't Batman who figured out how to stop the alien invasion in "Dark Heart", it was Ray Palmer. If Bruce were "smarter than all those guys" and "able to solve any problem" as you claim, the he'd have done all those things, but the fact that he didn't proves that there are indeed minds on the planet bigger than his. And FTR, I'm not denying that Batman is among the smartest individuals in the DCU, I just don't think he's THE smartest person on Earth, that's all. No one's dissing your favorite hero, so relax. Go sit in a freezer and chill.

    Frosty!
    Edited on 10/16/2006 4:02pm
    Edited 7 total times.
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  • Avatar of sylent_asassin

    sylent_asassin

    [13]Oct 16, 2006
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    phillippejr wrote:

    -Silverstar- wrote:
    phillippejr wrote:
    Batman is smarter then all those guys.Do u see all the stuff he reseaches in his lab and he solves any problem.
    Batman's smart, sure, but 'smarter than everyone'? 'Smartest person on Earth'? 'Solves any problem'? That might be pushing it. If Bruce were really that brilliant, you'd think he would've concocted a way to retard his aging process so he wouldn't become a rickety old man in the future and need to hire a protogee.

    Low blow.So ur acting like superman didn't get old too.He got weaker(even tho he is styill strong).Batman just gave up being batman and told someone else to be batman.Well IMO Batman>> anyone else in justice league.He figured out everyone idendity the day he met them.When hawkgirl people invaded earth he  new everyone's true identity.LOL Flash couldn't believe it.

    You're confused. Batman is NOT the smartest person on Earth. Amanda Waller knew Batman's secret identity. Does that make her the smartest person on Earth? No. Let's break down what Batman is:

    World's Greatest detective? Yes.

    Most resourceful? Probably and that's debatable.

    Smartest? No.

    There's a reason the League kept around members like John Henry Irons and Ray Palmer... Batman can't do everything. Additionally, Batman had the chance to be reborn so to speak with the Lazurus pit and rejected it because it was false; unnatural. He gave up being Batman because he was old and his body couldn't handle it.

    Lastly, Bruce didn't just tell someone else to become Batman. Terry McGinnis stole the suit to avenge his Father's death. It was by chance that he ended up becoming Batman even though Amanda Waller's assassination plot of Terry's parents (Project Batman Beyond- to put Terry on the path to becoming Batman) with the Phantasm failed.

    Edited on 10/16/2006 1:40pm
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  • Avatar of phillippejr

    phillippejr

    [14]Oct 16, 2006
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    -Blackstar- wrote:
    No one said that Superman didn't get older. If you will recall in the Batman Beyond episode titled "The Call", we saw future Superman. He had gotten older, but was still very much active in the superhero biz due to the fact that Kryptonians age slower than humans.

    Phillipejr wrote:
    Well IMO Batman>> anyone else in justice league.He figured out everyone idendity the day he met them.When hawkgirl people invaded earth he new everyone's true identity.

    All right, let's break this down, shall we?:

    1. Batman found out Superman's identity back in "World's Finest" (Keep in mind also that Supes found out who Batman was by using his X-ray vision in the same episode). Clark and Bruce already knew each other's identities before the League was formed.

    2. John Stewart and Diana don't have secret identities, so there was nothing for Bats to figure out there.

    3. OK, you're a Batfan. That's all fine and grooy, but that doesn't answer the question. The topic of this thread is "Who is smarter?" Not "Which character do you like more?" Whom your favorite League member happens to be is irrelevant to this converstaion. (FYI, Hawkgirl's people are called the Thanagarians.)


    I'm going to say this one more time: I'm NOT saying that Batman isn't smart, just that he's not THE smartest person on the planet! Batman hired someone to build the Batmobile. If he were truly the biggest brain on the planet, he could have built it himself. Bats didn't build the Watchtower either, although his money may have helped to finance it.

    There are several humans and humanoids in the DCU that are just as smart as Bruce, if not smarter. If you're going to declare Bruce Wayne to be THE smartest person alive, then you might as well say that he has a super power: the ability to know everything and to never screw up. Ever.

    yeah kidding right?He figured out GL and flash identity and how could he build a watch tower?LMAO he might be able to draw up the skeches for the watch tower, but he can't build a whole tower by him self.Do u know how big that thing is?(he is a normal man not superman).He build the bat cave and he reseaches everything.speciments etc...(watch batman TAS).He solves the riddlers problems and other things.When did i say bats was the smartest in the world?I said in the league.(Learn to read).When did i say anything about batman being my fav character?What are u reading?????????Please

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  • Avatar of phillippejr

    phillippejr

    [15]Oct 16, 2006
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    -Silverstar- wrote:
    Phillippejr wrote:
    Low blow.So ur acting like superman didn't get old too.He got weaker(even tho he is still strong).
    Um, yeah, I never said that Superman didn't get older. More to the point, I didn't say anything about Superman at all. You brought up Supes for some reason, not me. And that statement wasn't a "low blow", it's the truth. If Batman were truly as uber-brilliant as all that, he would be able to devise a way to defy old age (i.e., a youth serum, a homemeade Lazarus pit, a cybersuit, what have you) and continue to be Batman, since he clearly still possesses the fighting spirit and will to be Batman (as evidenced by the Batman Beyond episode in which Bruce states, "in my subconscious mind, [Bruce] isn't what I call myself.").
    :
    Batman just gave up being batman and told someone else to be batman.

    Incorrect. Batman had to give up being Batman, because he had gotten too old and couldn't do it anymore. Also he didn't tell Terry to be Batman; Terry found out who Bruce was by a series of circumstances and forced himself on Bruce in order to settle his score for the murder of his father. As long as Bruce is alive, HE is Batman in his mind, which only reinforces my original point: that if Bruce were truly "the smartest person on Earth", then he could, and in all likelyhood would, find some way to continue to be Batman. The fact that he ISN'T defying age in the Beyond timeline indicates that he simply doesn't know HOW to. It's lack of ability, not lack of desire, that's keeping Bruce from continuing to be Batman..
    :
    Well IMO Batman>> anyone else in justice league.He figured out everyone idendity the day he met them.When hawkgirl people invaded earth he new everyone's true identity.LOL Flash couldn't believe it.
    OK, your favorite character is Batman. Great. But that's not the subject of this thread. The question being posed here is "Who is the smartest?" not "Who's your favorite?" You're so busy defending Batman that you're not listening to what we're saying. Bruce didn't invent half of the equipment that he employs in his career; he hired others to do so for him. It wasn't Batman who figured out how to remove Darkseid in "Destroyer", it was Luthor. It wasn't Batman who figured out how to stop the alien invasion in "Dark Heart", it was Ray Palmer. If Bruce were "smarter than all those guys" and "able to solve any problem" as you claim, the he'd have done all those things, but the fact that he didn't proves that there are indeed minds on the planet bigger than his. And FTR, I'm not denying that Batman is among the smartest individuals in the DCU, I just don't think he's THE smartest person on Earth, that's all. No one's dissing your favorite hero, so relax. Go sit in a freezer and chill.

    Frosty!

    I know bats was too old so he gave up.(thats kinda what i meant.).Once again i never said he was the smartest in the world just in the JL.Anyways bats outsmarted alot of people who are smarter then him.

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  • Avatar of -Blackstar-

    -Blackstar-

    [16]Oct 17, 2006
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    Is Batman smart? Yes.

    Is Batman the smartest of the "Super 7"? Maybe, but that's debatable. J'onn has been alive for centuries. There's no way that Bats is smarter than him.

    Is Batman the smartest person in the DCU? Hell no! Ray Palmer (the Atom) and John Henry Irons (Steel I) are both super scientists. I don't think Batman is smarter than either of them. Lex Luthor is probably smarter than Bats also, or at least is just as smart as Bruce. Lex made his fortune from nothing, as opposed to Bruce who merely inherited his vast fortune.

    Anyway, this thread isn't supposed to be about Batman, as it's been established that, while he is indeed brilliant, he is NOT the smartest person in the DCU.
    phillipejr wrote:
    He figured out GL and flash identity and how
    could he build a watch tower?LMAO he might be able to draw up the
    skeches for the watch tower, but he can't build a whole tower by him
    self.Do u know how big that thing is?(he is a normal man not superman).

    You're telling me to read? Why don't you practice what you preach? Here it is once again: John Stewart doesn't have a secret identity! Everyone already knows that John is a Green Lantern. Bats didn't figure out squadoo about John's identity because there was nothing for him to figure out. I own the season Justice League 2 DVD and I can tell you without fear of contradiction that the only names that Batman read off were "Wally West, Clark Kent" (and, after removing his own cowl) "Bruce Wayne!" And I said that Batman did NOT build the watchtower or the Batmobile. Do you know what a 'hypocrite' is? Look it up sometime.

    One more thing: Back on page 1, RoboAmish said this:
    RoboAmish wrote:
    Batman. In the DC world he is often implied to be the smarrtest person on earth


    That's what I was responding to. Everything's not about you, you know. Egomaniac.
    Edited on 10/17/2006 6:08am
    Edited 6 total times.
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    -Silverstar-

    [17]Oct 17, 2006
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    phillippejr wrote:
    He figured out GL and flash identity


    GL (John Stewart) doesn't have a secret identity.. Did you not read Blackstar's post? I think you're the one who needs to learn how to read, chum. Or at least comprehend.
    :
    i never said he was the smartest in the world just in the JL


    That's debatable. As Sylent pointed out, the guy can't do everything. There are other brains in the organization like Mr. Terrific, J'onn J'onnz, John Henry Irons and Ray Palmer, who are all experts in fields which Bruce does not excel in, such as robotics, mechanics, microscience, and alien cultures. Batman is among the smartest in the JL, sure, but THE smartest? I'm not buying that. If he were really"the smartest guy in the JL", they wouldn't need those other aforementioned guys.

    :
    Anyways bats outsmarted alot of people who are smarter then him.


    OK, you've just said that there are people who are smarter than Batman. Therefore, by your own argument, Batman is NOT the smartest. You just contradicted yourself.
    :
    When did i say anything about batman being my fav character?

    When you said "Batman>>everybody else in the Justice League", and "Sorry, Batman. ur still the best" and all of this other pro-Batman stuff you keep spouting. Ask a silly question.
    Edited on 10/17/2006 7:02am
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of Lena_Wayne15

    Lena_Wayne15

    [18]Oct 17, 2006
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    Like the Star Bros. said, Batman is not the smartest person in the League. I've always cosidered that to go to either Ray Palmer, Mr. Terrific, or John Henry Irons.

    Bruce has tons of gadgets and stuff, true, but he also has a couple million to play around with.

    Anyway, the smartest man in the Legue wouldn't create protocols against his team that are able to get stolen...twice.
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  • Avatar of phillippejr

    phillippejr

    [19]Oct 17, 2006
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    -Silverstar- wrote:
    phillippejr wrote:
    He figured out GL and flash identity
    GL (John Stewart) doesn't have a secret identity.. Did you not read Blackstar's post? I think you're the one who needs to learn how to read, chum. Or at least comprehend.
    :
    i never said he was the smartest in the world just in the JL
    That's debatable. As Sylent pointed out, the guy can't do everything. There are other brains in the organization like Mr. Terrific, J'onn J'onnz, John Henry Irons and Ray Palmer, who are all experts in fields which Bruce does not excel in, such as robotics, mechanics, microscience, and alien cultures. Batman is among the smartest in the JL, sure, but THE smartest? I'm not buying that. If he were really"the smartest guy in the JL", they wouldn't need those other aforementioned guys.
    :
    Anyways bats outsmarted alot of people who are smarter then him.
    OK, you've just said that there are people who are smarter than Batman. Therefore, by your own argument, Batman is NOT the smartest. You just contradicted yourself.
    :
    When did i say anything about batman being my fav character?

    When you said "Batman>>everybody else in the Justice League", and "Sorry, Batman. ur still the best" and all of this other pro-Batman stuff you keep spouting. Ask a silly question.

    Batman>>>JL(I was talking about the topic.I said smarter not him being my fav character.)I never admitted that he wasn't the smartest in the league.(I think u need to learn how to read)I said he outsmarted people who are smarter then him.(Bad guys i mean).Anyways we will never know who is the smartest until someone confirms it.So we are just speculating.

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  • Avatar of phillippejr

    phillippejr

    [20]Oct 17, 2006
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    Lena_Wayne15 wrote:
    Like the Star Bros. said, Batman is not the smartest person in the League. I've always cosidered that to go to either Ray Palmer, Mr. Terrific, or John Henry Irons. Bruce has tons of gadgets and stuff, true, but he also has a couple million to play around with. Anyway, the smartest man in the Legue wouldn't create protocols against his team that are able to get stolen...twice.

    Well batman has a trust problem.

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