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Who's the strongest Justice League hero/villain?

  • Avatar of Pokeysteve

    Pokeysteve

    [41]Mar 25, 2007
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    Lol i love the arguing on here. I'm gonna answer this but i'm doing a "If they all fought to the death" type thing to simple it up. Heroes: Martian Manhunter. You hit him when he wants you to hit him. Villains: Doomsday. How does everyone figure it isn't Doomsday? Just curious. And off topic does any one KNOW, not they think, if Super girl is stronger then Wonder Woman? Super girl is Kryptonian! That's enough right there no?
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  • Avatar of -Silverstar-

    -Silverstar-

    [42]Mar 26, 2007
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    Who's arguing? Anyway, no, Supergirl isn't stronger than Wonder Woman. First, to be technical, Kara isn't Kryptonian, she's from Argo, a sister planet of Krypton with a similar physiology. Second, Kara is still young, and as such, her powers aren't as developed as Wonder Woman's. (Insert your own cleavage joke here.) So, no.

    I'm not going to take part in a 'who'd win in a battle to the death?" scenario, because then we really would be arguing. Somebody made an entire thread about that very subject a while back; half of the posters here said Batman would come out on top, and the rest all had different ideas. Thus the flame wars erupted. The problem with hypotheticals like that is that very few people can be impartial about them. Most folks just pick whichever character they happen to like the most to win, simply because so-and-so is their favorite character. There's no point in even posing such a question if you're just going to choose your favorite character as the victor. We could all just pick whichever character we like the most to win, that's an indication of nothing. I say, judge impartially or don't judge at all. Who would win such a battle would depend on the circumstances of the bout and which writer was handling it.

    -I will say, however, that it's not a given that J'onn would be the victor of such a showdown. MM is formidable, yes, but let's also not forget that he could he could be beaten back by a Bic lighter.

    P.S.*In regards to the Marvel thing, fellows, Mr. Lee has stated in numerous interviews that Spidey is his favorite character. For one thing, Lee created Spider-Man, he didn't create Wolverine. Also, when Marvel had its' own TV production studio, the character which sat atop the 'M' logo was Spidey, not Wolvie. Furthermore, when Marvel Entertainment's then toy division, ToyBiz released a series of childrens' toys and storybooks featuring the Marvel superheroes in 2003, the line was named 'Spider-Man and Friends', not 'Wolverine and Friends'. Wolvie wasn't even added to the line until around 2004 or 2005. So I stand by Blackstar's original statement that Spider-Man is to Marvel what Superman is to DC. Wolverine's hot right now, but Spider-Man's been Marvel's go-to guy since the early 1960's. But I'm not arguing, merely stating facts. We're all still cool here, as far I'm concerned.*
    Edited on 03/26/2007 12:23pm
    Edited 8 total times.
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  • Avatar of gamerboy190

    gamerboy190

    [43]Mar 26, 2007
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    Hyou_Gattai wrote:
    gamerboy190 wrote:
    -Silverstar- wrote:
    Not to drag this too far off-topic, but Black's right. Spider-Man is Marvel's trademark character. Spidey basically made Marvel what it is today. He was the first teenage superhero to be a hero in his own right, rather than just being a sidekick to some adult hero, plus he's the admitted favorite character of Stan Lee. Just about every major Marvel character, from Daredevil to the Fantastic Four to Thor to Nick Fury to the Avengers to the Silver Surfer to the X-Men has crossed over with Spidey at some stage. Wolverine is popular too, but he was created in the wake of Spider-Man's success.
    I concur. Spiderman is the Superman of Marvel comics.
    ok let's get this over, you have your opinion and i have mine...fine with me

    Cool. I'm not hating on your idea if that's what you're trying to imply. It's all good in the hood.

    Edited on 03/26/2007 8:30pm
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  • Avatar of Hyou_Gattai

    Hyou_Gattai

    [44]Mar 26, 2007
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    ok getting a little off topic yet again (since we are talking about marvel...)does anyone think that Tobey should do another Spidey movie? his contract is only for 3 movies, my personal thought is that he should...he has done a wonderful job just like Hugh Jackman with Wolvie and Brandon Ruth with Supes
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  • Avatar of Pokeysteve

    Pokeysteve

    [45]Mar 27, 2007
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    [QUOTE="-Silverstar-"]Who's arguing? Anyway, no, Supergirl isn't stronger than Wonder Woman. First, to be technical, Kara isn't Kryptonian, she's from Argo, a sister planet of Krypton with a similar physiology. Second, Kara is still young, and as such, her powers aren't as developed as Wonder Woman's. (Insert your own cleavage joke here.) So, no. I'm not going to take part in a 'who'd win in a battle to the death?" scenario, because then we really would be arguing. Somebody made an entire thread about that very subject a while back; half of the posters here said Batman would come out on top, and the rest all had different ideas. Thus the flame wars erupted. The problem with hypotheticals like that is that very few people can be impartial about them. Most folks just pick whichever character they happen to like the most to win, simply because so-and-so is their favorite character. There's no point in even posing such a question if you're just going to choose your favorite character as the victor. We could all just pick whichever character we like the most to win, that's an indication of nothing. I say, judge impartially or don't judge at all. Who would win such a battle would depend on the circumstances of the bout and which writer was handling it.

    -I will say, however, that it's not a given that J'onn would be the victor of such a showdown. MM is formidable, yes, but let's also not forget that he could he could be beaten back by a Bic lighter.

    I understand you. Every one just picks their fav instead of who they really think. That's why All you read every where is Batman Batman Batman. MM isn't my favorite hero like Doomsday isn't favorite villain but i still think they would win. I wasn't saying MM was a given either. Doomsday is the given. Haha Bic lighter. That's good. Depends on which continuity you went with though. Same thing with Super girl. It depends where you look. In the JLU Argo was Krypton's sister world but else where Argo is a city on Krypton. Personally i think it's stupid how they changed it. Either way Wonder Woman has the edge in the clevage department.

    Lol Lobo kicked supes in the goodies lol that's cause he's the MAIN MAN! I just watched Hereafter too what are the odds huh?

    Edited on 03/27/2007 12:11am
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  • Avatar of -Blackstar-

    -Blackstar-

    [46]Mar 27, 2007
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    Hyou_Gattai wrote:
    ok getting a little off topic yet again (since we are talking about marvel...)does anyone think that Tobey should do another Spidey movie? his contract is only for 3 movies, my personal thought is that he should...he has done a wonderful job just like Hugh Jackman with Wolvie and Brandon Ruth with Supes


    I'm going to see how Spider Man 3 turns out, then I'll decide on whether or not I think there should be a 4th movie. I'm not a huge Spiderfan (there are other Marvel characters that I like more than him), but I liked the 1st movie. Spider Man 2 wasn't as good as 1 (IMHO), but it was still OK. It remains to be seen how well Topher Grace is going to do as Eddie Brock. Physically, Grace is all wrong for the part, but he might surprise me.
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  • Avatar of gamerboy190

    gamerboy190

    [47]Mar 27, 2007
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    Hyou_Gattai wrote:
    ok getting a little off topic yet again (since we are talking about marvel...)does anyone think that Tobey should do another Spidey movie? his contract is only for 3 movies, my personal thought is that he should...he has done a wonderful job just like Hugh Jackman with Wolvie and Brandon Ruth with Supes


    It depends. Spiderman 1 was pretty good, but Spiderman 2 was well...Meh. Enjoyed the plotline, but could've done better, IMHO. If Spiderman 3 is good, and seeing the trailers of it, it looks good, but it could be a dud in a hurry of the plotline becomes too boring and reptitive. So it really all depends on the character development that Peter received in the movies and overall movie feel to be even worthey for him to have a fourth movie.
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  • Avatar of Hyou_Gattai

    Hyou_Gattai

    [48]Mar 27, 2007
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    -Blackstar- wrote:
    Hyou_Gattai wrote:
    ok getting a little off topic yet again (since we are talking about marvel...)does anyone think that Tobey should do another Spidey movie? his contract is only for 3 movies, my personal thought is that he should...he has done a wonderful job just like Hugh Jackman with Wolvie and Brandon Ruth with Supes


    I'm going to see how Spider Man 3 turns out, then I'll decide on whether or not I think there should be a 4th movie. I'm not a huge Spiderfan (there are other Marvel characters that I like more than him), but I liked the 1st movie. Spider Man 2 wasn't as good as 1 (IMHO), but it was still OK. It remains to be seen how well Topher Grace is going to do as Eddie Brock. Physically, Grace is all wrong for the part, but he might surprise me.
    there will be a 4th movie, they are still deciding the actor, or if Tobey will re-sign...
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  • Avatar of MarWash

    MarWash

    [49]Mar 27, 2007
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    Hyou_Gattai wrote:
    -Blackstar- wrote:
    Hyou_Gattai wrote:
    ok getting a little off topic yet again (since we are talking about marvel...)does anyone think that Tobey should do another Spidey movie? his contract is only for 3 movies, my personal thought is that he should...he has done a wonderful job just like Hugh Jackman with Wolvie and Brandon Ruth with Supes


    I'm going to see how Spider Man 3 turns out, then I'll decide on whether or not I think there should be a 4th movie. I'm not a huge Spiderfan (there are other Marvel characters that I like more than him), but I liked the 1st movie. Spider Man 2 wasn't as good as 1 (IMHO), but it was still OK. It remains to be seen how well Topher Grace is going to do as Eddie Brock. Physically, Grace is all wrong for the part, but he might surprise me.
    there will be a 4th movie, they are still deciding the actor, or if Tobey will re-sign...
    i saw an interview after they showed that 7 minute clip after Heroes, and everyon said Spiderman 3 is definately the last movie, they said the way it ends there cant be another movie
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  • Avatar of sylent_asassin

    sylent_asassin

    [50]Mar 28, 2007
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    Hyou_Gattai wrote:
    ok getting a little off topic yet again (since we are talking about marvel...)does anyone think that Tobey should do another Spidey movie? his contract is only for 3 movies, my personal thought is that he should...he has done a wonderful job just like Hugh Jackman with Wolvie and Brandon Ruth with Supes


    I fail to see how they can't bring back Tobey with the success of the first two flicks and the impending success of the upcoming film. It's a cash cow. As long as they keep making Spidey films with good stories and don't stray too far away from the core values of the character, they can make as many flicks as they want. Personally, I think they should end it at 4 with Venom... and speaking of Venom, Grace doesn't fit the role from a physical standpoint as Eddie Brock is supposed to be a bodybuilder, but I'll keep an open mind.
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  • Avatar of Pokeysteve

    Pokeysteve

    [51]Mar 28, 2007
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    Did you guys see the pics of venom that were up? The behind the scenes type ones? The Venom suit is padded in the arms. It looks ok but nowhere near the hulk like cartoon Venom. He has potential.
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    Orpheus2017

    [52]Mar 28, 2007
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    J'onn suffers only from a weakness to fire which is responsible for annihilating almost his entire race(Telepathic plague). It wasn't that stupid Jello-race that killed his people.J'onn was a scientist on his world turned Manhunter(police). Their is no strain on his strength other than his arms getting tired the same way Flash runs out of juice. I wasn't saying Darkseid isn't strong, but that we all know that, I just simply chose to measure his strength in a way I haven't seen documented yet. And Yes, Darkseid is a NEW GOD born on Apokolips, after killing his mother and taking the reins; when not hurting BluBoy he routinely wages war with New Genesis against other New Gods. They didn't "de-emphasize" him and you know it, they de-powered him.
    Edited on 03/28/2007 1:26pm
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  • Avatar of -Silverstar-

    -Silverstar-

    [54]Mar 28, 2007
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    Orpheus2017 wrote:
    J'onn suffers only from a weakness to fire which is responsible for annihilating almost his entire race(Telepathic plague).
    Not exactly. J'onn's 'weakness to fire isn't physical, it's psychosomatic: all Martians fear fire as their fire god, H'ronmeer was also a god of death, hence all Martians associate fire with death.
    :
    Their is no strain on his strength other than his arms getting tired the same way Flash runs out of juice.
    Wrong again: "The Martian's superhuman strength comes from his plasmorphic structure formed from immensely long and complex molecular chains, augmented with his psionic and telekinetic abilities allowing him to lift incredible weights without these weights crumbling under the stress. The Martian has been seen lifting small tankers out of the ocean for short distances. By modifing the density of these bio-polymers, the Manhunter can make himself stronger by forcing the polymers into tighter bundles. At a rest state, the Manhunter can lift approximately 20 tons. Given a few minutes to reconfigure, he could match Superman pound for pound for about a minute. Then the bio-polymer would begin to suffer under the strain and begin to unravel. While the Manhunter's strength can be on par with Superman and he lacks the long term endurance and stamina of the Kryptonian. This probably has to do with the Kryptonian's storage and creation of MetaATP which the Martian biology would not have developed being so far from the Earth's sun." BTW, I think you meant 'there', not 'their', chief.
    Edited on 03/28/2007 7:49pm
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    -Blackstar-

    [55]Mar 28, 2007
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    Orpheus2017 wrote:
    J'onn suffers only from a weakness to fire which is responsible for annihilating almost his entire race(Telepathic plague). It wasn't that stupid Jello-race that killed his people.J'onn was a scientist on his world turned Manhunter(police). Their is no strain on his strength other than his arms getting tired the same way Flash runs out of juice. I wasn't saying Darkseid isn't strong, but that we all know that, I just simply chose to measure his strength in a way I haven't seen documented yet. And Yes, Darkseid is a NEW GOD born on Apokolips, after killing his mother and taking the reins; when not hurting BluBoy he routinely wages war with New Genesis against other New Gods. They didn't "de-emphasize" him and you know it, they de-powered him.
    I said that they de-emphasized J'onn's super strength. Period. Not J'onn himself. Do yourself a favor and lay off of the beer.

    It's evident to me that you don't know what the smeg you're talking about. The reason that J'onn was de-powered was because that shows' producers were concerned that MM was too similar to Superman, power-wise, what with them both being space aliens and all. And also because omnipotent characters tend not to work well in a group/team dynamic. And before you go off on another "I hate Blue Boy" tangent, you may as well know that other DC heroes were powered down for the sake of the show. Including Flash and yes, even Superman himself. Shocking!

    My post about this was at least a page ago. Try using the quick quote button in the future. It would make your feckless meandering a lot easier to follow.

    Edited on 03/28/2007 8:05pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of JLU51306

    JLU51306

    [56]Mar 28, 2007
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    i saw an interview after they showed that 7 minute clip after Heroes, and everyon said Spiderman 3 is definately the last movie, they said the way it ends there cant be another movie

    I get on this website and it says they making a spider-man 4
    heres the link http://videoeta.com/month_theaters.html?month=all and scroll down to 2010 releases.
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  • Avatar of -Silverstar-

    -Silverstar-

    [57]Mar 29, 2007
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    Here's another source of information which disproves Orpheus' claims that J'onn is stronger than Superman. (I meant to edit this into my previous post, but the board has gave birth to a new glitch as of last night, so I wasn't able to.) This is direct from Wikipedia:

    Wikipedia wrote:
    Martian Manhunter has been described as "the Swiss Army knife of superheroes." He possesses many similar powers to those of Superman -- super-human strength, stamina, durability, flight, speed and "Martian" vision -- at levels close to those of Superman himself. In various altercations with Superman, Martian Manhunter is usually able to stun the Man of Steel, but ultimately loses the fight.


    Note that the author said that MM's power levels are CLOSE to those of Superman's, not the equal to or greater than. Case in point, in a physical throwdown between the 2, J'onn can hold his own, but ultimately, Supes is stronger.

    As for the 'de-emphasized' bit, here's another Wiki quote:
    Wikipedia wrote:
    For the animated series, executive producer Bruce Timm revised and reduced J'onn's powers somewhat; his superstrength was vastly downplayed (though he was still seen performing great feats of strength on occasion), his superspeed and Martian Vision removed altogether and emphasis was placed on his telepathy, shapeshifting and density alteration, specifically his ability to become intangible.


    The reason? Justice League was J'onn's first-ever TV appearance, and the producers wanted him to stand out and catch on with fans. They were smart enough to realize that if his powers were more or less just a copy of Superman's, then viewers wouldn't take to him. Obviously there'd be no point in giving J'onn superspeed with Flash on the team. Timm specifically got rid of the Martian Vision because he felt that it made no sense for a pyrophobe to possess a power similar to heat vision. But even before those alterations, MM has always been below Superman in terms of physical strength.

    Now no one here is trying to discredit J'onn, least of all myself. J'onn is actually one of my favorite Leaguers. But let's not let our fanboyness cloud our capacity for logic, m'kay? Let's be real here: J'onn is a formidable superhero, and quite capable of dealing some major damage with his absolute control of his molecular structure in addition to his awesome mental abilities. But he is NOT physically stronger than Superman.

    It sounds to me like Orphey is simply a die-hard J'onn fan who's also an avid Supes hater, so he'll say anything to validate his points. My advice: in the future, the next time you have a statement to make, I would suggest that you be able to cite a more reliable source for your information other than "your own ass."
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    sylent_asassin

    [58]Mar 29, 2007
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    dwayneotto

    [59]Mar 29, 2007
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    When trying to decide who is the strongest hero I'm following two strict guidelines: I'm only judging it based on animated DCU continuity (after all, this is a forum about the TV show) and I'm putting aside personal opinions and just looking at the facts. Physically Superman has been shown to be much stronger than J'onn. You think J'onn could punch Darkseid through a couple of skyscrapers AND fly fast enough to meet him on the other side in time to hammer him into the ground? I'm sorry, but I don't think J'onn is capable of that. To be honest, the only other person I think could pull that off is someone who hasn't even been mentioned yet: Captain Marvel. Seriously, there's only been a couple of heroes/villains that have gone toe-to-toe with Supes and gave what they got, and Captain Marvel is right up there. But here's one thing to think about: Right from the very first episode (Secret Origins), it was shown that J'onn's mental powers would knock Superman on his ass. Even stuck in a machine that was suppressing his powers, he was still able to blast Superman's mind to the point that Superman had to have his unconscious self carried to safety by Batman. And all J'onn was trying to do was get ol' Clark's attention. Consider that.
    Edited on 03/29/2007 10:29pm
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    Pokeysteve

    [60]Mar 31, 2007
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    [QUOTE="-Blackstar-"]

    Orpheus2017 wrote:
    My post about this was at least a page ago. Try using the quick quote button in the future. It would make your feckless meandering a lot easier to follow.



    I read his post and was like where the hell did this come from. I can't believe the MM and Supes discussion has gone on this long. Off the top of my head only two characters in the DC universe are stronger then Superman and MM isn't one of them. I think with his other powers he would win in a fight but not a straight out boxing match. Looks like arguing now Silverstar lol.
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