Last Resort Forums

ABC (ended 2013)

Poorly written and poorly researched

  • Avatar of Jobeleca

    Jobeleca

    [1]Sep 17, 2012
    • member since: 11/09/05
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    I had high hopes for this series, my father was a submariner for 17 years during the cold war and I've been fascinated with submarine movies. Unfortunately, it is obvious that the writers didn't do their research in this series, then they heaped on the cliches.

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  • Avatar of bobster_bsas

    bobster_bsas

    [2]Sep 18, 2012
    • member since: 11/10/06
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    Yeah that bugged me, too. And the only knowledge i've got of submarines is through the Tom Clancy novels.

    But i think the show isn't about subs, they had to have one because they are the vessels that carry the nuclear missiles, at least that's what i think. (I'm not from USA so i'm not sure of what i'm saying)

    The chain of command and the way they treat their superiors and subordinates also felt bad executed.

    But even with all that flaws i liked the pilot and i think i'll give this show a chance
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  • Avatar of moobear

    moobear

    [3]Sep 20, 2012
    • member since: 02/14/12
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    My brother was stationed on an Ohio class and they actually did do their research. One of the many reasons he picked being a submariner was that rules are a lot looser underway, and yes they are doing a pilot program with having women serve on subs by teaming female officers with female enlisted sailors. The reason rules are looser is best summed up by the whole metaphor of an oak tree vs a willow tree. Shoving a bunch of guys in a steel tube with no daylight, and you take away the 24 hour day (my brother's "days" were 18 hours long) is already asking a lot of them, you add in the all of the many many navy regulations and your going to have people snap, something that is a lot more dangerous in a sub then an aircraft carrier. The sub fleet takes care of their own, my brother could get away with all sorts of crap on the base, another officer would yell at him for walking around with his hands in his pockets (it was cold) and not saluting and would go and report him to his captain, who never took any action, but for example on aircraft carriers there are peoples who's job it is to write up stupid small infractions. Oh, and, emergency deep is something that is practiced in a maneuver called angles and dangles, it always sounded like that would fun to experience, though not fun enough to enlist

    Random fact, there are basically two main classes in the sub fleet (technically there is more and you can google it if interested) and then there is the seawolf class, but the two main ones are:

    Los Angeles class
    These are attack subs and can be deployed for months upon months and only have one crew assigned to it. They are small and cramp.

    Ohio class aka boomers
    These are the ones that carry the nukes, they're larger hence the reason they're doing a pilot program with allowing women serve on board. They go out with one crew for a 3 month tour, come back, spend a month being refitted, then are sent out with another crew for a 3 month tour....after all they are only worth anything as they circle around the ocean waiting to get the order to release their ICBMs.

    While the whole purpose of an Ohio class is to fire it's nukes, I think it is human nature to take that moment and question becoming the first person to deploy a nuclear bomb as weapon since WW2, yes they broke protcol by breaking radio silence and even deploying the antenna, but I still find it plausible....in a Hollywood sort of a way.
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  • Avatar of Jobeleca

    Jobeleca

    [4]Sep 21, 2012
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    I had no problems with women on board - I too am aware of the pilot program, and the crew being more relaxed.

    Here are 2 examples of where the creators did not do their basic research.

    * The Ohio Class carries 24 Tridents, not 16.
    * A Trident II launched from the Indian Ocean could not reach Washington DC, its range is about 4600mi.
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  • Avatar of spriggan1985

    spriggan1985

    [5]Sep 26, 2012
    • member since: 03/02/09
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    All details, pls remind me what was the last good submarine movie?? "hunt for red october (1990)" or " Crimson Tide (1995)" so slmost 20 years since last good sub-movie.


    I really enjoy the genre so I take what they have to offer, even with minor flaws.



    I'd like a show with "Top Gun" theme, coz this was the last good movie about fighting jets and dogfights



    ps. just checked the range on a Trident II it's 7000 mi

    Edited on 09/26/2012 11:59am
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  • Avatar of Jobeleca

    Jobeleca

    [6]Sep 26, 2012
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    7400 is the kilometer range, 4600 is the mile range, 4000 is the nautical mile range.


    The wikipedia page is incorrect.

    Edited on 09/26/2012 9:35pm
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  • Avatar of spriggan1985

    spriggan1985

    [8]Sep 27, 2012
    • member since: 03/02/09
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    i checked other sites, and trident 2 has the range over 4000 nautical miles, ofc no1 will tell u the exact range of their most powerfull weapons.


    i think it's between 10000-12000 km, i'm from europe so I use the scientific/metric standards

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  • Avatar of iy83

    iy83

    [9]Sep 28, 2012
    • member since: 10/04/11
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    Guys - Get with the plot

    This was a well written, fast paced , highly entertaining pilot of a series I have high hopes for!

    If I want to watch a program on the specs and operations of an American nuclear sub then I will turn over to Discovery!!!
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  • Avatar of Linc-o

    Linc-o

    [11]Oct 7, 2012
    • member since: 06/26/06
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    iy83 wrote:
    Guys - Get with the plot

    This was a well written, fast paced , highly entertaining pilot of a series I have high hopes for!

    If I want to watch a program on the specs and operations of an American nuclear sub then I will turn over to Discovery!!!


    Agreed. What iy83 said.

    Guys, this is A FICTIONAL STORY. This is FICTION.

    Besides, people getting high hopes for a fictional show because someone in their family was a submariner/soldier/cop/firefighter is wrong. That would be good for a documentary show, not for prime time network/cable drama. It is even disrespectful for those guys who put their life in danger every day, to be compared to fictional tv characters.

    This pisses me off because people do hate-reviews of a show for all the wrong reasons. Please get it right first, then we'll talk about if it is likeable or not.
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  • Avatar of DougClark2

    DougClark2

    [13]Oct 12, 2012
    • member since: 03/16/11
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    Jobeleca wrote:


    Here are 2 examples of where the creators did not do their basic research.

    * The Ohio Class carries 24 Tridents, not 16.
    * A Trident II launched from the Indian Ocean could not reach Washington DC, its range is about 4600mi.


    Not for nothin', but looking at the face of TV...if a few range miles and a half dozen missles are the two biggest factual mistakes, I think they're doing awfully well.

    Any show on any subject can easily be scrutinized by experts in the field as to what can and can't be done, what's possible and what's not. If that's the standard of what makes for a good show...well, there aren't nor have there every been any.
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  • Avatar of londonchadwick

    londonchadwick

    [14]Oct 17, 2012
    • member since: 09/18/12
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    Jobeleca wrote:


    7400 is the kilometer range, 4600 is the mile range, 4000 is the nautical mile range.


    The wikipedia page is incorrect.




    As far as I'm aware, the exact range and flight characteristics of the Trident II D5 are still state secrets. Any figures you may see around the web are strictly estimates but most of these sites (including the BBC who I trust significantly more than wikipedia) seem to agree that the range is in excess of 7000 miles and it is approximately 7500 miles from the Indian Ocean to Washington DC so the show is still in line with the facts in that sense.

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  • Avatar of Yaspaa

    Yaspaa

    [15]Oct 18, 2012
    • member since: 02/12/07
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    The details may annoy me if this were a documentary. But a tv show, not so much. I watch for entertainment, which is purely what the show's for.
    Edited on 11/06/2012 11:24am
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  • Avatar of Sp3kkie

    Sp3kkie

    [16]Oct 19, 2012
    • member since: 06/17/10
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    • rank: Talk Show Host
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    Indeed, it are not the biggest mistakes, if you can even call it that. And I agree with everyone who says it is a fictional show. What show isn't twisting some facts for the greater good of the story.


    Seen Person of Interest, really think that is possible. But maybe that show is not that good an example. A better one is CSI (all of them). For example, it is not possible for them to solve a crime that fast. It takes a long time to do DNA-tests, let alone the tests on soil and other stuff. And finding a specific show of a footprint? Really? I doubt it is possible but even then, not in a day. And then the fact that the CSI-agents go out in the field to arrest the purp and interrogate him. I mean, I'm not sure if that is normal or not, but I very well doubt it.


    This show is great, and I was very sceptic about it before it aired

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  • Avatar of Daniel-Jackson

    Daniel-Jackson

    [17]Oct 26, 2012
    • member since: 05/30/10
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    Jobeleca wrote:
    * The Ohio Class carries 24 Tridents, not 16.



    You didn't even get the numbers mentioned on screen right. On screen they said the Colorado has 18 Tridents. They also said that the Colorado has 28 Tomahawks. Now if you check the numbers about actual Ohio-class subs you will find that there are 2 variants:


    1. The original SSBN-variant carries 24 Tridents as you said


    2. The refitted SSGN-variant carries 154 Tomahawks. In effect they replaced 22 of the Tridents by 7 Tomahawks each and 2 Tridents with swimmer lockout chambers.


    Now if you look at things from a writes perspective you will find that mixing those two types is the best option for this show as you have the Tridents which are the basis for the whole idea but also the ability to let your sub fire on land based targets with Cruise missiles (as you would not want to have to use nukes in a possible story that requires to fire on land based targets). If you take out the 6 missing Tridents and replace them with those 2 swimmer lockout chambers and the rest with 7 Tomahawks each (7x4 = 2 you get exactly the numbers you have on Last Resort.


    Bottom line: You are right that this configuration does not exist. But you are also wrong about the writers not doing their research as the configuration is completely plausible and could have been built. And since the USS Colorado itself is fictional this is not a big stretch at all I see nothing wrong with that. It's fictional because it's a TV show. And an awesome one at that.

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  • Avatar of BlargMuffinz

    BlargMuffinz

    [18]Nov 8, 2012
    • member since: 11/08/12
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    Jobeleca wrote:


    7400 is the kilometer range, 4600 is the mile range, 4000 is the nautical mile range.


    The wikipedia page is incorrect.


    The Trident I has a range of roughly 4000nmi (7408km). The Trident II, which is used in the show, has a range of roughly 6100nmi (11297km).


    You're confusing the two.

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  • Avatar of blazer666_uk

    blazer666_uk

    [20]Nov 25, 2012
    • member since: 10/04/06
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    The trident D5 missile has a range in excess of 7500 Miles so that fact is ok.... also Trident subs never carry a full compliment anyway due to each missile weighing over 60 tonnes and costing over $25 million each!

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  • Avatar of tvcricket

    tvcricket

    [21]Jan 7, 2013
    • member since: 07/22/12
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    Well, the show has finally been cancelled, and it's no wonder. The writers apparently had one thought, what would happen if a nuclear submarine with the power to wipe out most of the planet went rogue? Nothing bad with the concept, but then they fell short to create a plausible scenario and properly develop the story. Instead, we are left with a spaghetti of plot inconsistencies that insult viewer's intelligence (assuming fans of this show are as such).


    The purpose of protocol on a nuclear ballistic submarine is to fire without hesitation once the correct codes are provided. This is the reason POTUS (President of the United States) carries what's referred to as "The Football" (missile launch codes) everywhere he goes. Imagine what could happen if a confirmed nuclear ICBM from North Korea is in flight to a US target and an order to fire with the proper confirmation, on enemy launch sites is disobeyed simply because the crewhas second thoughts about starting WWIII.


    Of course, the show is poor fiction and may be appealing to some. My exceptionto it is the blatant anti-American theme; the tag line being "Honor in Defiance" as if it was patriotic for an officer to disobey orders. The U.S. government is portrayed as corrupt at the highest levels, with only the mutineers standing against them. In later episodes, even communist China is portrayed as a reasonable, benevolent country offering needed supplies, seemingly in exchange for nothing. When the Chinese envoy offers the captain a board game as a gift, the captain comments "Chess is more my game", to which theenvoy replies "Chess is a game where you destroy your enemy, my game is to gain territory with minimum losses". In yet another exchange the captain "I swore an oath to my country, not necessarily my government", with the envoy replying "One reflects on the other".


    Indeed, the show gets more ridiculous with every episode; we now have Chinese envoysoffering assistance, members of the seal team sneaking out of the island to rescue an American held in the Philippines, floggings, the launch keys getting stolen from the captain, the local island thugs roughing up officers with little consequence.... I could go on and on.

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