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Do you think female detectives are treated differently than male detectives?

  • Avatar of CrazyChick111

    CrazyChick111

    [1]May 18, 2008
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    I am not trying to bash the show. I love the show and the characters. I am just analyzing the show.

    In Wrath and Stalked, Munch, Elliot, and Cragen were all worried about Olivia going out and doing her job because of the men who were stalking her. Elliot even got her a protective detail. Do you think that Elliot would have gotten a protective detail for Munch or Fin if they were being stalked and they were his partner?

    Now, thinking of all the detectives who have come and gone and stayed. The women seem to be treated a lot more gentle than the men are. I have seen Elliot come to blows with another detective (episode about the overweight teens who attacked a piano player, it was after Olivia had left). I have seen Munch and Fin almost come to blows (earlier season). I have seen Fin and Elliot almost come to blows in the episode COLD. I have never seen any female detectives come to blows with the male detectives. The worse I have ever seen is Elliot raise his voice while in a heated moment with Olivia because they were sleep deprived over a case. Does it have to do with women being biologically the weaker sex? Does it have to do with the fact that the male detectives would feel bad for almost coming to blows with a female colleage more than a male colleage even if they are all cops?

    Is it right or is it wrong? Does it exist or does it not exist?

    Tell me what you think... if you think I'm crazy you can tell me that

    Edited on 05/18/2008 5:15pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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    cfenn2010

    [2]May 18, 2008
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    I think you may be referring to the dubious fact that men and women are DIFFERENT. Not only physically, but psychologically as well. Women tend to talk out a situation and be more reasonable and cool-headed, whilst men are determined to beat something. It's harder to get mad at someone who's not. Elliot and Olivia have argued plenty of times--but have you ever heard or seen her shout and rant and get all up in someone's face (and punch them)? Nope, but I've certainly seen Stabler do it...on occasion. It all kind of has to do with how we evolved--men had to be strong and solo, the providers, not compliant. When something goes wrong and stress goes up for a man, primitive instincts tell him to "fight" or run the risk of losing his position. Women had to survive in groups and therefore developed more malliable personalities--if you argued or hurt a member in rage, you were outcast, left alone to die. If something went wrong and stressful, the females used the good sense to work it out peacefully and avoid conflict at all costs. This, however, is very generic, and not mean to demean either of the sexes. Physically, women are weaker than men, with the tendency to build more fat than muscle (for child bearing). But, just to cheer you girls up, I'm sure you'll be happy to know that at birth, females are more neurologically developed than males (and I'm not sure if they ever quite catch up).
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  • Avatar of CrazyChick111

    CrazyChick111

    [3]May 18, 2008
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    I have seen Olivia be just as agressive as her male colleages when it comes to certain perps.... kicking the crud out of the guy in the interrigation room in the episode "florida" I think. In earlier seasons she has slammed a perp into the wall in order to stop him from fleeing but I can't remember the name of that episode. So I can see what you are saying but it can go both ways. Women can be aggressive just like men.
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    jo_idnew

    [4]May 18, 2008
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    As far as agression goes, men are socialized to stand up for themselves. When someone messes with you, you need to show them they can't get away with it. Women are socialized to be people-pleasers. When someone messes with you you either ignore it or try to figure out what they don't like about you so you can 'fix' it (even if there is nothing wrong with you).

    In nine years teaching in public schools, I have learned that fights between boys and girls are different in nature. Boys use violence to maintain staus (like wolves), and they use it more readily, which allows them to vent their anger before it becomes dangerous. Girls use violence to hurt one another, and they do it only when they are about to explode, which makes them more dangerous than boys.

    Boys fight for honor. They get their blows in to show they aren't a wuss, and then it's over. A boy fight is usually easy to break up. Girls fight because they want to draw blood. They wait until they get so mad at the other b***h that they want to seriously hurt her. I only ever tried to break up one girl fight, and I messed up my shoulder doing it. Never again!

    I have never seen boys rip each other's clothes off in a fight or tear out fistfuls of hair. Most of the time when I have seen girls fight, that's what they do.
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    svuiskool

    [5]May 18, 2008
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    jo_idnew wrote:

    In nine years teaching in public schools, I have learned that fights between boys and girls are different in nature. Boys use violence to maintain staus (like wolves), and they use it more readily, which allows them to vent their anger before it becomes dangerous. Girls use violence to hurt one another, and they do it only when they are about to explode, which makes them more dangerous than boys.

    Boys fight for honor. They get their blows in to show they aren't a wuss, and then it's over. A boy fight is usually easy to break up. Girls fight because they want to draw blood. They wait until they get so mad at the other b***h that they want to seriously hurt her. I only ever tried to break up one girl fight, and I messed up my shoulder doing it. Never again!

    I have never seen boys rip each other's clothes off in a fight or tear out fistfuls of hair. Most of the time when I have seen girls fight, that's what they do.


    You have no idea how right you are. I am that close to punching some of the stupid b!tches in my school, that I would be happy to cause some serious damage to them.
    CrazyChick111 wrote:

    I am not trying to bash the show. I love the show and the characters. I am just analyzing the show.

    In Wrath and Stalked, Munch, Elliot, and Cragen were all worried about Olivia going out and doing her job because of the men who were stalking her. Elliot even got her a protective detail. Do you think that Elliot would have gotten a protective detail for Munch or Fin if they were being stalked and they were his partner?

    Now, thinking of all the detectives who have come and gone and stayed. The women seem to be treated a lot more gentle than the men are. I have seen Elliot come to blows with another detective (episode about the overweight teens who attacked a piano player, it was after Olivia had left). I have seen Munch and Fin almost come to blows (earlier season). I have seen Fin and Elliot almost come to blows in the episode COLD. I have never seen any female detectives come to blows with the male detectives. The worse I have ever seen is Elliot raise his voice while in a heated moment with Olivia because they were sleep deprived over a case. Does it have to do with women being biologically the weaker sex? Does it have to do with the fact that the male detectives would feel bad for almost coming to blows with a female colleage more than a male colleage even if they are all cops?

    Is it right or is it wrong? Does it exist or does it not exist?

    Tell me what you think... if you think I'm crazy you can tell me that



    I think that your right. I think that because they ARE women, that they do- IN A WAY- get treated differently. I strongly doubt that any of the men would ever hit any of the women, because OBVIOUSLY it is illegal. But I guess that you are right, because women are the weaker sex.

    And it's okay. I don't think you crazy.
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  • Avatar of CrazyChick111

    CrazyChick111

    [6]May 19, 2008
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    [/QUOTE] I don't think you crazy. [/QUOTE]

    Good. I'm glad.

    Now that I think about it... Fin did hit Olivia in undercover in order to keep his cover as a prison guard but you could tell he felt horrible about it by the look on his face. I don't think he meant to hit her that hard!

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    X-RayVision

    [7]May 19, 2008
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    I think that Olivia could come a blow with anyone she wanted to just like anyone else in the Squad. She and Elliot had a moment in "Countdown" I think where they were pretty pissed at each other that could have led to a slap or two without Cragen seperating them.

    I think the women get treated somewhat different because they're women, I also think that men get treated differently in comparison to women because they're men. It's just the way things happen.

    I don't think that had that many positions been reversed there would have been vastly different outcomes. If Elliot had been the one targetted by those guys, Olivia would have been the first to put a protective detail on him.
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  • Avatar of Mishellie26

    Mishellie26

    [8]May 23, 2008
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    X-RayVision wrote:
    I think that Olivia could come a blow with anyone she wanted to just like anyone else in the Squad. She and Elliot had a moment in "Countdown" I think where they were pretty pissed at each other that could have led to a slap or two without Cragen seperating them.

    I think the women get treated somewhat different because they're women, I also think that men get treated differently in comparison to women because they're men. It's just the way things happen.

    I don't think that had that many positions been reversed there would have been vastly different outcomes. If Elliot had been the one targetted by those guys, Olivia would have been the first to put a protective detail on him.


    i agree with the first part of what u said, but if elliot had been targeted, then olvia wouldnt dare put a protective detail on him...he'd get pissed cuz she underestimated his masculinity or something...it would be like saying like he cant protect himself and his big manly ego would get bruised...plus, i would think liv would assume that el can protect himself and the idea wouldnt pop into her head just cuz he IS a man. u cant change it--its just the way things are
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    X-RayVision

    [9]May 24, 2008
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    I get the whole Masculinity barrier that Olivia wouldn't want to break. But Elliot put the protective detail on her not because he didn;t think she couldn't take care of herself but because he thought it might be too much for even her to deal with by herself combined with not wanting to take a big risk with her safety. Under similar conditions with the roles reversed, I could see Oliva not giving a damn about whether or not Elloit suffered bruised machismo and just wanting to do whatever it took to ensure his safety even if it meant he'd never want to be within 10 city blocks of her again. Olivia and Elloit have such a who cares about the consuquences tendency that this could happen beliveably.
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    svuiskool

    [10]May 25, 2008
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    Well, I was watching season 1, and I sorta think that Jefferies was the most sort of sexist in the show. In Payback, her comment, "That's not the only thing John never gets to er.... Eat." And all those comments were between her and Munch, like when she tells Munch to stop staring at her a$$. Just thought I'd share.
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  • Avatar of CrazyChick111

    CrazyChick111

    [11]May 25, 2008
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    How do you think Olivia would respond to being punched in the face by one of the guys? Elliot? Fin? Munch? Do you think she would be surprised? Think she deserved it? Punch back? Would she respond differently to being punched by a female detective rather than a male detective? Example: Dani Beck or Jeffries versus Elliot or Fin???
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    smawls

    [12]May 25, 2008
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    CrazyChick111 wrote:
    How do you think Olivia would respond to being punched in the face by one of the guys? Elliot? Fin? Munch? Do you think she would be surprised? Think she deserved it? Punch back? Would she respond differently to being punched by a female detective rather than a male detective? Example: Dani Beck or Jeffries versus Elliot or Fin???
    i dont think the any of the guys would ever punch her. but for arguments sake, i think it would depend on the situation if she would be surprised by it. and i doubt that, whatever the circumstances were, that she would think she deserved it, though.

    my theory goes the same for both the guys and girls; if she was arguing with them and it got extremely heated i think she would hit back despite gender. if she was taken by surprise and sucker punched, i dont think she would hit back. (and after whatever detective punched her realized what they had just done would probably be EXTREMELY remorseful. lol.) remember when she got punched in the face in "futility"? she didnt hit back, (i know the other dets got to him the second after he did it, but hear me out) and she never got revenge by hitting him in interrogation or anywhere else. all she said to him was that she "had certainly been hit much harder" when she was on the stand in court. but all in all, i think it depends on the situation.
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    jsswope

    [13]Jul 19, 2008
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    Oh, this is a great discussion. I would actually love to see someone come to blows because it hasn't been done and I could see it happening very easily. I do tend to agree though that I think hitting Liv would probably be the least likely scenario, but probably the most interesting to follow. And I think that absolutely has to do with gender. Men are taught never to hit girls, and with everything that they deal with every day, I think that is ingrained in them. I think the more likely scenario for Liv getting hit would be if there were 2 detectives (my guess would be on El and Fin) who get in a fight, Liv steps between them to break it up and gets caught in the crossfire. Hmmm, wouldn't I love to see that (especially if it was El who hit her). I could see Liv being the one to start it if she got pissed off enough. I'm not so sure anyone would hit back though.

    I think she would handle herself just fine, and I think it depends on the situation whether she'd retaliate. I do agree that Liv would be the first to put a protective detail on El if necessary.

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    jo_idnew

    [14]Jul 19, 2008
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    I actually think Fin is the only one who really sees Olivia as a cop and not a female cop. That's not to say the others don't respect her abilities, but I do think they have blind spots when it comes to Liv. I think they see her as a woman first and a cop second, and that leads them to treat her differently.

    I'll get the quick ones out of the way first.

    I am ignoring Lake because he disappeared so quickly.

    Elliot is super-protective of Olivia. In "Stalked," he picked her up at her apartment "on the way" to work, though it was really quite a ways out of his way. In "Wrath," he put the protective detail on her. In "Bad Blood," he jumps on Munch for his wisecrack about her leaving her father's side of the new insurance forms blank and then gets on his case about "bothering" her later in the episode. In "Fault," he goes to her instead of Ryan. Whether you ship EO or not, you can't deny that he has a special kind of affection and concern for her that he wouldn't have with a male partner. I'm not saying he wouldn't watch a male partner's back, but I don't think he would go to such lengths to protect a man.

    Munch is also more protective of and patronizing toward Olivia. "In Stalked," he offers her a ride home despite claiming not to have brought his car to work. In "Bad Blood," rather than suggesting that she track down the tapes of her mother's statement to the detectives after her rape, he does it for her. In "Legacy," he confides in Olivia (not his partner, not his captain) about the little girl in his neighborhood who was abused and eventually murdered by her mother, I guess because women are so much easier to talk to.

    Cragen is the complicated one. His relationship with the squad is very much that of a father figure, even with Munch to some extent. Now, as males (offspring or proteges) mature, father's proudly look forward to the day when their "boys" become "men." Females, on the other hand are always "daddy's little girl."

    Like most fathers, Cragen is a pushover when it comes to disciplining his girl. In "Payback," when Olivia blows two first degree murder convictions, he tells her she just used her one 'get out of jail free' card, but in "Victims," when Elliot (correctly) refuses to bring in the parents of a child rape victim in to question them on suspicion of murdering their daughter's rapist because he doesn't feel they have enough evidence, Cragen suspends him for insubordination. Olivia broke the rules and weakened their case, Elliot refused to follow a bad order, yet Elliot got punished more severely.

    In "Informed" when Olivia steals evidence (making it useless in court and putting a dent in the integrity of Warner's lab) he yells at her and then advises her on how to continue working the case, but in "Ripped," when Elliot, confronted with a victim who doesn't want to press charges and a perp whom he personally knows to be a 'sweet kid,' decides to give the kid a break until he can get to the bottom of whatever is making him act out of character, Cragen suspends him. Olivia broke the law and blew a case. While his actions might not have demonstrated the highest degree of integrity, Elliot didn't break any rules or laws, and in the end, he was right that the kid was not really a batter but suffering from some other condition (granted, he brought it on himself, but he really wasn't in control of his actions when he hit the girl). Yet Elliot got the more severe punishment.

    In Philadelphia, when Olivia loses a suspect because she is talking on her cell-phone with her long-lost brother's girlfriend (whom she located by illegally running her DNA through the system for partial matches, by the way), he chews her out, gives her another job to do, and orders them both in for psychological evaluation; but in "Blood," when Elliot tries to help his daughter by getting her DUI charges dropped, he punishes him by making him "stay after school," so to speak, and complete his reports for Casey. Olivia broke the rules and screwed up on the job because she let her personal business interfere with her work, and another victim was raped as a consequence. Elliot broke the rules for his daughter, but no one was hurt and it didn't (at the time) interfere with his work. Again, Olivia got only a lecture and Elliot faced punishment.

    So, Cragen is more lenient with "daddy's little girl" than he is with his "favored son." Also, like Munch, he confides in her in a way that he does not do with the men. In "A Single Life," he tells her the story of how his wife died by way of explaining why he doesn't go home at quitting time.

    Fin, on the other hand, treats Olivia just like one of the guys. In "Counterfeit," he follows her lead in tailing the suspect rather than arresting him as ordered because he knows she's right that another victim will be killed unless they can follow the suspect to wherever he is hiding her. In "Strain," they work side by side with little conflict. In "Venom," he's straight and direct with her about how he sees her dealings with Ken as interference that is only getting in the way of them patching up their strained relationship, with no effort to spare her feelings and no sexist comments about a woman's meddlesome nature.

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    pinkydog123

    [15]Jul 20, 2008
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    even though earlier on when i watched the show at first, i thought no, theyre pretty equal, but now that i look more closely, dont think they are, they hardly ever have liv catch or run down perps, she gets the car, elliot always gets shot or hit, and shes just miraculously not there whenever it happens, and every cop except her is like said to be a lesbian, so i think yes, they do treat them differently,
    Edited on 07/19/2008 11:54pm
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    jo_idnew

    [16]Jul 20, 2008
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    pinkydog123 wrote:
    every cop except her is like said to be a lesbian

    Say what?

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    smawls

    [17]Jul 20, 2008
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    jo_idnew wrote:

    pinkydog123 wrote:
    every cop except her is like said to be a lesbian

    Say what?

    ditto. i know quite a few (ok, three) female cops, all who arent lesbian. and when im a cop, im not going to "play for the other team." im sticking with the men...

    i will say that one of those officers does get hit on by women a lot because even the lesbians assume she's gay because she wears a uniform (but she does get hit on by lots more guys. you should of heard 'em all last night when they were coming out of the beer garden "hey we got the hottest cop here!" -she loves getting hit on by drunk people. not. lol)
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    jsswope

    [18]Jul 20, 2008
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    Great points jo_idnew. I have to agree with you on all of the above. However, I think there's more to it than just that. Liv's success as a cop is based on two things--one her gut instinct, and two her ability to get inside someone's head, whether that's getting a victim to trust her or relating to a perp to coherce a confession. The second half of this carries over in her interaction with the rest of the squad, and I think you're probably right--only Fin really truly is immune to it. Liv doesn't use violence and intimidation like Elliot to win a case. She listens, assesses the situation, and performs accordingly. And in that sense, she literally has them wrapped around her finger. I don't think anyone can really truly say "no" to her. Yes, Cragen disciplines her when she screws something up, but every time he does, you just have this feeling that he's secretly proud of her for it. And believe me, she knows it.

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    jenny_d_b

    [19]Oct 1, 2008
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    I think they treat her differently, but I think its mostly because it's Olivia. She's so gentle, in a way they arent (it could be because she's a woman, or it could be another reason), she's got a rocky backstory... Elliot wants to take care of her, but as an equal, not like a poor little girl who can't take care of herself... The team never treated her that way. She shows her emotions more often than them, like when she cried in "Signature". I think sometimes the guys want to cry too, but they won't let themselves do it, so they are glad Olivia does. I think they admire that she shows her emotions like that. And they deal with raped and abused women every day. Olivia is a woman. It's natural that it affects her in another way than the guys, because they have never been women, they can never understand how it feels like to be touched here or there... They can understand it feels good, or that it hurts, but they don't have the possibility to fully understand it. I think Olivia places herself in the victims' position in a way they don't. Elliot places his kids or wife in that position instead, so he gets angry. I can't really define the difference in another way.
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    K-Dizzle09

    [20]Nov 2, 2008
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    My dad has been a police officer for about 32 years now, so I have hung around the station a lot and have talked with and know personally many female and male detectives, officers, and others.

    I believe that the occupation of a police officer is typically known as a male profession. It's not a traditional role for that of a female. Females are supposed to be feminine and not want to take down the bad guy, and they are traditionally seen as weaker than males, therefore apparently it's not the job for them. From talking with female detectives at my dad's department they are treated different, treated as they can't do as much as the guys, nor can they keep up with them. Yet when I read this I just had to ask my dad. My dad said "I see it day in and day out with the many high testosterone men treating the women as they can not do as much as them. Then it is comical to watch the female whoop the guy's butt in the monthly PT (physical test). There will always be the macho guys who think they are all that, yet I believe police forces have come along way with excepting the non-traditional roles, and believe me the women are holding their own and then some." I know my dad has all the respect towards his female officers, mainly from what he tells me is because they do a far better job than half of the male officers. I think that female detectives are still treated differently, that will never change, although I can say they are gaining respect one step at a time, and showing the world we can do just as much if not more than males can.

    All the words of my father, so there you go. He has done it all and his work is so interesting to me, why do you think that I'm so interested in police work and of course SVU.

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