Legion of Super Heroes Forums

The CW (ended 2008)

Official Discussion Thread - Dark Victory (2) (possible spoilers)

  • Avatar of jsmith000

    jsmith000

    [61]Apr 6, 2008
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    Thought "Dark Victory" part 2 was pretty good. I never expected Brainac 5 to become human like he was in the comics. I guess it's good when the writers keep surprising us. The one thing I felt was detrimental was the third half of Triplicate Girl to return. I sort of half expected her to be the "dark" in "Dark Victory" since everyone had half forgotten about her. I figured in the great time conundrum, the third half would be come evil . . . or become something akin to Glorith (who was the equally wicked counterpart to Mordru) in the comics.

    Hmm. In the comics, Brainiac 5 become evil when he went insane for awhile and created the evil Omega. I guess this was the animated take on the tale. With Impereix/Brainiac 1 filling in for the villain.

    The cancellation of Legion is really discouraging. Nearly all my favorite shows aren't returning. Avatar will be done with in two months, Legion is gone. Kim Possible ended last September. And I don't like too many live action shows (not cartoony enough).

    One great thing about LSH is guessing what characters and and plotlines from the seventies they would use (my favorite period). Ultra Boy and Phantom Girl were too of my favorites, along with Shadow Lass . . .whom in one issue had a big fight with Saturn Girl over the way she treated some refugees.

    Ah. . .Good Times. . . Good Times.

    JThree

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  • Avatar of theportal

    theportal

    [62]Apr 6, 2008
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    I'll hold my back my full thoughts until the episode officially airs in the UK next month, but for now...

    This was a satisfying ending to the series, though it was even more rushed than "Sundown part 2". I have to admit that Brainiac 5 overpowering his ancestor simply because the Supermen had faith in him was weak (it reminded me of several Teen Titans season finales)... but then he became human. That's one of the best moments in the series, right there. I loved Shrinking Violet's reaction! The shock and horror on her face. However, I really wish we could have spent more time on the newly human Brainiac 5 facing the Legion again. That could have been the focus of the episode's conclusion, rather than Kel stealing the spotlight and 1.0 returning (with a terrible design to boot).

    The brief appearance by the Thanagarians is something I have to mention, especially considering how the speaking Thanagarian looks exactly like one of the soldiers from "Hunter's Moon". Speaking of that saga... this episode almost pulled a "Starcrossed", but not quite. Maybe that's a blessing (considering that this is the end)... I don't know. But maybe if there had been more intensity rather than the needless sentimentality that we got when Brainiac 5 stood up to his ancestor, then this would have been up there with "Starcrossed". But it's not a fair comparison. And hey, some of that sentimentality was quite touching - Brainiac 5 as a human would be cool to explore... Very good episode, which I will probably be even more thrilled with when I view it again in light of the entire series next month.

    Edited on 04/06/2008 6:29am
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  • Avatar of Fekul_the_Baby

    Fekul_the_Baby

    [63]Apr 6, 2008
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    The series finale LOSH delivers a superb and intense episode that only makes me sorry we won't be seeing a season three--esp. the way it ended with a reborn Brainiac's chilling last reflection on the nature of evil. Kell discovers his purpose is not to bring death and destruction, but offer life and hope. Superman's "final" sendoff and his speech about Brainiac-5, as I've noted, recall Mr. Spock's death and James Kirk's reflection on his old friend: that he was the most human of anyone he's ever met. And how much butt does the Composite Superman kick, am I right?

    If I'd have done anything differently, I'd have had Violet in the infirmary with a head bandage after Brainy's attack. Either she's a surprisingly resilinent little thing or they have a Legionare with the power to heal mild injuries on staff. Picture this: a now flesh-and-blood Brainy approaches Vi to apologize for his earlier actions...and she snubs him, turns on her heels and walks away. She's the only one who can't seem to forgive Brainy, because she cared about him the most--even more than Superman--and she took his betrayal deeply to heart.

    It seems stopping Brainiac's madness changed the future so that the apocolypse didn't happen, and the 41st century wasn't destroyed...however, will Kel-El be able to adjust with still carrying the memories of a future that never happened? Will he still exist? It was only because of the cataclysm that he and Terra-Man were created, so wouldn't his existance be a temporal anomoly? Actually, wouldn't much of this season--the new allies found, the new enemies made, the business with the bottled city of Kandor, Lightning Lad's lost arm--not have occurred? Time travel is very confounding. But on the other hand, Trippy White is back!

    Kell seems a bit harsh to say he was never one of the Legion...after all, he did have the honor of sitting on Timber Wolf's tribunal (and by the way, note how easy Wolvie manhandles Kell there!), and Duo Damsel was very nice to him in "Unnatural Alliances". If he felt like he didn't belong, it was through no lack of trying on the Legion's part...the guy's just got some serious trust issues to work through.

    I just hope our little Pinnochio doesn't burn out enjoying all humanity has to offer now that he's a real boy. I mean, I don't want to see the Brainster turn up a couple of years later sporting a mullet, a couple of tattoos, and a pack of smokes rolled up in his sleeve, shacking up with some trashy beer-swilling girl from the bad side of the galaxy in a cruddy little apartment with a cruiser up on blocks on his front lawn. Maybe he can grow a bad teenage mustache, but that's it....
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  • Avatar of BrodieBanks

    BrodieBanks

    [64]Apr 6, 2008
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    Fekul_the_Baby wrote:
    If I'd have done anything differently, I'd have had Violet in the infirmary with a head bandage after Brainy's attack. Either she's a surprisingly resilinent little thing or they have a Legionare with the power to heal mild injuries on staff. Picture this: a now flesh-and-blood Brainy approaches Vi to apologize for his earlier actions...and she snubs him, turns on her heels and walks away. She's the only one who can't seem to forgive Brainy, because she cared about him the most--even more than Superman--and she took his betrayal deeply to heart.
    I would have cried, once again, saying a lot for a guy like me. Than again, ANYONE would have cried.

    Edit: Fanfic time!

    Edited on 04/06/2008 8:37pm
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  • Avatar of dOMITUPSYK

    dOMITUPSYK

    [65]Apr 7, 2008
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    Fekul_the_Baby wrote:
    I just hope our little Pinnochio doesn't burn out enjoying all humanity has to offer now that he's a real boy. I mean, I don't want to see the Brainster turn up a couple of years later sporting a mullet, a couple of tattoos, and a pack of smokes rolled up in his sleeve, shacking up with some trashy beer-swilling girl from the bad side of the galaxy in a cruddy little apartment with a cruiser up on blocks on his front lawn. Maybe he can grow a bad teenage mustache, but that's it....


    X3 Nor addicted to drugs. O_o
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  • Avatar of Emfrbl

    Emfrbl

    [66]Apr 7, 2008
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    Did anyone notice Brainy had a different voice as a human to robot? Thats good Voice Acting! From going from sounding like a duck as he spoke to a softer, more sincere voice.
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  • Avatar of BrodieBanks

    BrodieBanks

    [67]Apr 7, 2008
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    It's because Adam Wylie is badass.
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  • Avatar of Hellkitty2001

    Hellkitty2001

    [68]Apr 7, 2008
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    I missed out on the episode when it first aired, but I managed to catch up soon after.

    Anyway, it was a very good episode. I really like the whole concept of a character "going to the dark side" as it were, and that's part of what make the episode great, with everything leading up to the climactic final battle. (The Thanagar refrence was certainly unexpected.) Of course, I kinda knew they wouldn't really kill Superman, seeing as it sorta has happened before...

    And did I mention Human Brainiac 5 is cute? Oh yeah, I also like how the missing third of Triplicate Girl returned, that was a nice closure. But wait, shouldn't Superman X dissappear or something now that Imperiex is gone? Gah, time travel always gives me a migraine...

    However, I'm really mad that the show is cancelled, especially on the way the episode ended with a cliffhanger...
    Stuff like this is part of the reason why I don't trust TV stations anymore...

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  • Avatar of SharanMcQuack

    SharanMcQuack

    [69]Apr 7, 2008
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    How story REALLY ended.

    Shrinking Violet made herself so small, she entered Brainaic undetected. She found the digitized Legionaires and rally them, fighting Brainaic from within, striping Brainaic away, looking for the "real" Brainy... and found nothing. Big surprise. Androids don't have hearts anymore than they have livers. But they "distroyed" Brainaic, undid all he did...including bringing back 1/3 of Triplet Girl.

    Please explain how Brainy became human. Did the Blue Fairy show up when I wasn't looking, wave her wand and turn Pinoccho into a real boy? And if he's human, why is he still green.

    Now that Brainy's gone (Scram! Your MOTHER wants you! DON'T COME BACK, EITHER!)maybe Bouncing boy can marry Triplet girl, both retire which would make the show MUCH better. Losing her would be worth it to get rid of HIM.

    Edited on 04/07/2008 11:15am
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  • Avatar of Emfrbl

    Emfrbl

    [70]Apr 7, 2008
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    You really don't like a guy who is hardly in it... And another guy who makes the whole storyline of LoSH's generally work. If you don't like the characters, don't watch the show I always say. Part of me thinks Brainy only got so much coverage because he had a big time VA voicing him. Superman will always be the star hero, but Adam Wylie was the star VA in this show.
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  • Avatar of warnerbroman

    warnerbroman

    [71]Apr 7, 2008
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    who was the guy with the big "e" on his chest
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  • Avatar of TeenTitans_LOSH

    TeenTitans_LOSH

    [72]Apr 7, 2008
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    no clue, but...

    when brainy turned human i couldn't help saying 'pinnocchio! he's a real boy!' then i had to apologize for making fun of him.
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  • Avatar of dOMITUPSYK

    dOMITUPSYK

    [73]Apr 7, 2008
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    warnerbroman wrote:
    who was the guy with the big "e" on his chest


    Element Lad, maybe? (I don't know myself. I'm guessing. X3)
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  • Avatar of Fekul_the_Baby

    Fekul_the_Baby

    [74]Apr 8, 2008
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    [QUOTE="SharanMcQuack"]

    Please explain how Brainy became human...And if he's human, why is he still green.


    Well, he's not human, strictly, no more than Superman is...he's still a Coluan, though less...er...mechanical. I can explain his newfound fleshiness no more than I can the concept of time paradoxes in fifty words or less, I fear...but I willl adress why seeing Vi hurt was so upsetting. It's because she was the only girl struck; all the others Brainy attacked were male. You never hit the girl. Art Holscomb, who wrote DOGS OF WAR #1 and #2, reflected in his letter column that readers got mad at him for having the book's hero clobber a woman--an evil woman, yes, but a woman nonetheless. He also noted that no one minded the two dozen or so men the hero also happened to beat up as a matter of course. I always say if you want to make the villain look like a real s.o.b., let him do something bad to a girl. It was poor little Gwen Stacy's death that signaled a pivotal change in the comic industry; would it have been as powerful and shocking if Green Goblin had thrown a dude off that bridge? Cute and shy and wee as V may be, we would have gotten just as mad if Brainy'd hit Duo Damsel, Saturn Girl, Phantom Girl, or Dream Girl (although she could at least defend herself--she knows karate!) And we should be thankful it was just a push--he could have given her a backhand slap roundly across the face, or worse, simply grabbed her head and broken her neck like a breadstick. I must wonder what the writer's meetings were like for this episode. I see some network suits poring over a script and intoning, "Hmmm...yes...you may only vaguely suggest any injury to Shrinking Violet's person, and not by Brainiac Five's hand, foot, or other part of his body, but through colliding with the floor or wall when she loses her balance. You may not subsequently show Shrinking Violet with any bruises, cuts, bumps, or suggestions thereof via neck braces, bandages, or slings. When she appears in part two she must be injury-free and smiling. And you certainly can't use this passage on page 43 when she walks up to Brainiac Five while he's packing and call him a (bleep)ing(bleep). In fact, she won't speak at all, so we don't have to pay her v.a." I admit, Brainy becoming humanoid surprised me...as did his self-imposed exile. I figured he'd stand before a tribunal for crimes unbecoming, as Timber Wolf did. Though the law is a little fuzzy on whether digitizing victims is actually murder, I imagine.... Oh, hey, did anyone else dig seeing Tyroc in action? His scream sounded quite beastly...Apparantly sound waves are red...who knew....
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    BrodieBanks

    [75]Apr 8, 2008
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    [QUOTE="Fekul_the_Baby"]
    SharanMcQuack wrote:

    Please explain how Brainy became human...And if he's human, why is he still green.

    Well, he's not human, strictly, no more than Superman is...he's still a Coluan, though less...er...mechanical. I can explain his newfound fleshiness no more than I can the concept of time paradoxes in fifty words or less, I fear...but I willl adress why seeing Vi hurt was so upsetting. It's because she was the only girl struck; all the others Brainy attacked were male. You never hit the girl. Art Holscomb, who wrote DOGS OF WAR #1 and #2, reflected in his letter column that readers got mad at him for having the book's hero clobber a woman--an evil woman, yes, but a woman nonetheless. He also noted that no one minded the two dozen or so men the hero also happened to beat up as a matter of course. I always say if you want to make the villain look like a real s.o.b., let him do something bad to a girl. It was poor little Gwen Stacy's death that signaled a pivotal change in the comic industry; would it have been as powerful and shocking if Green Goblin had thrown a dude off that bridge? Cute and shy and wee as V may be, we would have gotten just as mad if Brainy'd hit Duo Damsel, Saturn Girl, Phantom Girl, or Dream Girl (although she could at least defend herself--she knows karate!) And we should be thankful it was just a push--he could have given her a backhand slap roundly across the face, or worse, simply grabbed her head and broken her neck like a breadstick. I must wonder what the writer's meetings were like for this episode. I see some network suits poring over a script and intoning, "Hmmm...yes...you may only vaguely suggest any injury to Shrinking Violet's person, and not by Brainiac Five's hand, foot, or other part of his body, but through colliding with the floor or wall when she loses her balance. You may not subsequently show Shrinking Violet with any bruises, cuts, bumps, or suggestions thereof via neck braces, bandages, or slings. When she appears in part two she must be injury-free and smiling. And you certainly can't use this passage on page 43 when she walks up to Brainiac Five while he's packing and call him a (bleep)ing(bleep). In fact, she won't speak at all, so we don't have to pay her v.a." I admit, Brainy becoming humanoid surprised me...as did his self-imposed exile. I figured he'd stand before a tribunal for crimes unbecoming, as Timber Wolf did. Though the law is a little fuzzy on whether digitizing victims is actually murder, I imagine.... Oh, hey, did anyone else dig seeing Tyroc in action? His scream sounded quite beastly...Apparantly sound waves are red...who knew....

    *Vi goes in for her meeting with the writers*

    Shrinking Violet: I'm extremely happy you guys are building the tension with me and Querl! I can't wait to-

    Writer #1: Well Salu, we actually called you here to make sure that you wouldn't talk in exchange for large sums of Earth dollars.

    Shrinking Violet: I don't get it...

    Writer #2: Listen, kids today aren't going for that "romance" thing. We saw zero interest from kids ages 6-12, when we tried to link Bouncing Boy and Trips, as well as Imra and Garth.

    Shrinking Violet: Older kids watch it too! Not to mention Chained Lightening and Message in a Bottle were two of the best episodes this season! I mean, the freak hit me! Closure people, closure!

    Writer #1: $ 20,000 take it or leave it Ms. Digby.

    Shrinking Violet: *Sigh* Well there's always next season...

    *Writers look at each other paniced*

    Shrinking Violet: Oh you've gotta be *beeping* me.

    Edited on 04/08/2008 12:41am
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of SharanMcQuack

    SharanMcQuack

    [76]Apr 8, 2008
    • member since: 04/23/05
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    Emfrbl wrote:
    You really don't like a guy who is hardly in it... And another guy who makes the whole storyline of LoSH's generally work. If you don't like the characters, don't watch the show I always say. Part of me thinks Brainy only got so much coverage because he had a big time VA voicing him. Superman will always be the star hero, but Adam Wylie was the star VA in this show.


    Who the bleep is Adam Waylie? You actually give a flying leap about the VOICE ACTORS? Why?

    and the legion is so blame big, at least one member had to bug me. and I never liked know it all. I'm an old FF fan and I never liked Reed Richards.
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    BrodieBanks

    [77]Apr 8, 2008
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    To address Brainy turning human, you can say he surpassed his need for his mechanical parts and eventually just evolved out of them. I mean, yeah it's a bit whack, but can you think of anything else?

    It's just a great metaphor for gaining humanity. I remember way back right before the beginning of this season Adam was on Avi Mellman's VO podcast and he was hinting at BIG things for Brainy.
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  • Avatar of Glitch4

    Glitch4

    [78]Apr 8, 2008
    • member since: 09/30/07
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    SharanMcQuack wrote:

    How story REALLY ended.

    Shrinking Violet made herself so small, she entered Brainaic undetected. She found the digitized Legionaires and rally them, fighting Brainaic from within, striping Brainaic away, looking for the "real" Brainy... and found nothing. Big surprise. Androids don't have hearts anymore than they have livers. But they "distroyed" Brainaic, undid all he did...including bringing back 1/3 of Triplet Girl.

    Please explain how Brainy became human. Did the Blue Fairy show up when I wasn't looking, wave her wand and turn Pinoccho into a real boy? And if he's human, why is he still green.

    Now that Brainy's gone (Scram! Your MOTHER wants you! DON'T COME BACK, EITHER!)maybe Bouncing boy can marry Triplet girl, both retire which would make the show MUCH better. Losing her would be worth it to get rid of HIM.

    Yeah...I'd rather go with the fight with Brainiac than that...>>;

    I like to say 'Logic? We don't need no steenkin' logic' for LoSH. It seems they really don't need logic. There can be plenty of ways to say as of why Brainiac 5 became human, though it was weird that his costume shed off. O_o

    And I don't think he's exactly human, but humanoid. In the comics, Coluans were green, and, since I think the new Brainiac 5 is a new Brainiac 5.1, they had to keep him green, considering the fact they want to stick pretty close to the comic.

    And if he was flesh-colored, I would hurl. Sorry, but I like Brainy green, like he always should be. ^^

    Does anyone else find it kind of funny that first Adam voices a robot, and then someone humanoid and green? Kind of wicked, isn't it? (I can't believe I missed him when he was Boq in LA. >> I would have loved to see Adam in a play...especially that play)

    I really loved Dark Victory part two, half because I had hyped myself up before it aired by watching the first part on my DVR(it beats what's on before LoSH), and half because...it. Was. Awesome. I mean, we finally get to see the inhabitants of Colu, and how fragile their world actually is, along with the Thangarians. ^^

    And, as one of the many Brainiac 5 fangirls, I almost spazzed on the couch when he became humanoid, right after feeling joy when he punched Brainiac 1.0(why do they say 1.0 anyways? Is there a 1.5 or something?) in the head, after saying that awesome quote: 'Get. Out. Of. My. Head!'

    But I have to admit, Supreme Superman looked reallly off. Wow. O__o They could have tried slightly harder to make it look more like a fusion of Supes and X(Kel) than X looking even uglier.

    I wish they'd spend all the time they wasted on X's leave on Brainy. Then maybe this ff.net girl would have a better idea of his new personality, and how to roleplay him as a humanoid.

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  • Avatar of Emfrbl

    Emfrbl

    [79]Apr 8, 2008
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    SharanMcQuack wrote:
    Emfrbl wrote:
    You really don't like a guy who is hardly in it... And another guy who makes the whole storyline of LoSH's generally work. If you don't like the characters, don't watch the show I always say. Part of me thinks Brainy only got so much coverage because he had a big time VA voicing him. Superman will always be the star hero, but Adam Wylie was the star VA in this show.


    Who the bleep is Adam Waylie? You actually give a flying leap about the VOICE ACTORS? Why?

    and the legion is so blame big, at least one member had to bug me. and I never liked know it all. I'm an old FF fan and I never liked Reed Richards.


    Voice actors bring characters to life... Ever watched a show where the good storyline was ruined by lame voice acting? It sucks. Quite often good voice actors make bad stories work, but bad voice actors rarely make good stories work.
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    BrodieBanks

    [80]Apr 8, 2008
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    As an aspiring VA, I couldn't agree more. This show's voice acting was simple great. Adam is one of my biggest inspirations along with Jason Marsden, Greg Cipes, Brad Swalie, and Will Friedle. Also, some of my favorite girls are Tara Strong, Grey Delisle, and Maggie Blue O'Hara.
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