Lost Forums

ABC (ended 2010)

Are they dead? And have the last 5 seasons been a waste of time?

  • Avatar of generalbrent

    generalbrent

    [1]Mar 24, 2010
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    After watching episode 609 (Season 6, Episode 09), the "are they dead" question is really brought back into focus. At this stage, it appears that Jacob is in fact, some type of God type figure, and Smokey (my favourite nickname for him) is some type of Devil type figure. Jacob's plan of bringing people to the island to see if they do things his way or the wrong way is very similar to the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve from the Bible.



    Now, the writers have said several times that they aren't dead, and they aren't in some kind of purgatory, heaven or hell. Recent episodes would suggest otherwise.



    Given that the Smokey Vs Jacob seems to be a kind of massive deal, it kind of makes the last 5 seasons seem a little... irrelevant? I mean, given that the island is more or less a battleground for Jacob and Smokey, whats the point with the Dharma folks? What does it matter about Widmore trying to kill everyone on the Island and get it back for himself? The whole Ben vs Widmore appeared to be something to look forward to, but now seems like a pretty secondary storyline. And what about Jack/Kate/Sawyer? Seems like a pretty small thing when Jacob is trying to stop Smokey destroy the world.



    And am I the only one that thinks its stupid having Smokey appear as Locke? To me, it just sounds like an excuse to keep the actor on the show despite the character being dead several seasons ago!

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  • Avatar of taviow

    taviow

    [2]Mar 24, 2010
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    No, they are not dead because THE PRODUCERS said so.


    The last 5 seasons have been building up to this. No, not irrelevant. Also, the Widmore stuff will surface again apparently.


    And Terry O'Quinn is an excellent actor, there's no reason not to keep him around.

    Edited on 03/24/2010 7:19am
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    thedankman

    [3]Mar 24, 2010
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    The last 5 seasons are not irrelevant at all. Dig deeper my friend.
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  • Avatar of OOsteb

    OOsteb

    [4]Mar 24, 2010
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    How do we know ( or not know ) that Widmore didn't make his own commitment to Smokey or Jacob while he was on the Island ? That's why he had to get back there. Jacob could have had two or three people over the years commit to keeping MIB on the Island.
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  • Avatar of Hungry_Homer111

    Hungry_Homer111

    [5]Mar 24, 2010
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    I don't think they're dead, I just think that that was a manipulation by the smoke monster, and one that Richard was ready to believe once he realized that Jacob was dead and thought that his whole existance since the Black Rock came to the island was a waste of time and he was following false beliefs all these years. Though, even if they are dead, I won't be so quick to say that these past 5+ seasons have been a waste of time. A big part of the series has always been human nature, being given a chance at redemption, interactions between certain individuals and groups of people, etc. Whther it's all been a "game" or something that has happened, I don't think it matters. It's still saying the same thing with or without these "god" characters, and with them being dead or alive. I will say that, if they are dead, then there is a bigger chance of it being pointless though. It just depends on where they'd end up taking that element in the rest of the season. There could be an element of it that does make it pointless, but in terms of what we know so far, I would have to say that it isn't pointless.

    generalbrent wrote:
    And what about Jack/Kate/Sawyer? Seems like a pretty small thing when Jacob is trying to stop Smokey destroy the world.

    That part was always pointless and took up way too much time IMO.
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  • Avatar of AlexCoburn

    AlexCoburn

    [6]Mar 24, 2010
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    I likethe Egyptian MythologyApep(MIB)/Sobek(Jacob) theory which would make the island part of Duat (Sokar's Island?), the Underworld in Egyptian mythology. The place where people's souls go after death for judgement. So maybe theyre not quite dead, not quite alive. Or they arrived there via a short cut, meaning they got there alive. Except I believe for Claire and Sayid who are definitely dead. My guess.


    Even if they were all dead, it wouldn't make the 5 seasons before pointless.


    Edited on 03/24/2010 9:44am
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  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [7]Mar 24, 2010
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    Hungry_Homer111 wrote:
    I don't think they're dead, I just think that that was a manipulation by the smoke monster, and one that Richard was ready to believe once he realized that Jacob was dead and thought that his whole existance since the Black Rock came to the island was a waste of time and he was following false beliefs all these years.
    Agreed, and not to mention Jacob issued his own brand of reaffirmation which confirming to Richard he was in fact alive.
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    SgtCashmere

    [8]Mar 24, 2010
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    I don't think the last five seasons were a waste of time. Even if it turns out the characters are dead, the past five seasons have been entertaining pieces of story telling.


    However, I don't believe the characters are dead. I think there's a bigger explanation for the Island's mysteries. After all, the Oceanic Six rejoined the real world, right? They must have been alive in order to do that... or, so it seems LOL I guess everything will be revealed in the next few weeks.

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  • Avatar of Codgin

    Codgin

    [9]Mar 24, 2010
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    Richard thought he was in hell cause how else do you explain black smoke ripping people a part, the island is simply a prison, they've left and returned to the real world, how'd that be possible if they were all dead

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  • Avatar of fish7474

    fish7474

    [10]Mar 24, 2010
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    I don't believe they are dead, either. Richard is just questioning everything Jacob told him because, if Jacob can give Richard eternal life, how can he (Jacob) die? I am anxious to see how it all unfolds in the finale, but if this turns out to be the freakin' Matrix or some kind of crap like that, I'll be pissed!
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  • Avatar of Guildy

    Guildy

    [11]Mar 24, 2010
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    generalbrent wrote:


    After watching episode 609 (Season 6, Episode 09), the "are they dead" question is really brought back into focus. At this stage, it appears that Jacob is in fact, some type of God type figure, and Smokey (my favourite nickname for him) is some type of Devil type figure. Jacob's plan of bringing people to the island to see if they do things his way or the wrong way is very similar to the Garden of Eden and Adam and Eve from the Bible.



    Now, the writers have said several times that they aren't dead, and they aren't in some kind of purgatory, heaven or hell. Recent episodes would suggest otherwise.



    Given that the Smokey Vs Jacob seems to be a kind of massive deal, it kind of makes the last 5 seasons seem a little... irrelevant? I mean, given that the island is more or less a battleground for Jacob and Smokey, whats the point with the Dharma folks?



    I would assume that Jacob brought these "enlightened" flower children to the Island, as he apparently has with everyone else



    generalbrent wrote:


    What does it matter about Widmore trying to kill everyone on the Island and get it back for himself?



    Wouldn't that just be proving Smokey's argument, that we come, we fight, we kill??


    generalbrent wrote:


    The whole Ben vs Widmore appeared to be something to look forward to, but now seems like a pretty secondary storyline.



    Unless Ben is the key. Then it's Ben and the forces of Light vs Widmore & Smokey


    generalbrent wrote:


    And what about Jack/Kate/Sawyer? Seems like a pretty small thing when Jacob is trying to stop Smokey destroy the world.



    And am I the only one that thinks its stupid having Smokey appear as Locke? To me, it just sounds like an excuse to keep the actor on the show despite the character being dead several seasons ago!



    It was a necessary part of the subterfuge, to get Ben to kill Jacob. Now that people have seen DeadLocke, he's stuck in that form.

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  • Avatar of buildam2005

    buildam2005

    [12]Mar 24, 2010
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    Anyone else think the whole "we're in hell" was a (in a good way!) cheeky way for the writers to acknowledge the theory that they're all dead? That's all I could keep thinking whenever Richard was saying that.

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  • Avatar of D-DawgMan1

    D-DawgMan1

    [13]Mar 24, 2010
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    "Hell" is a very vague term for this show.

    I mean, face it. If you crashed on an island with a black smoke monster roaming the place, killing at random, with a bunch of "Others", time traveling, DHARMA Initiative Stations, a button you have to press every 108 minutes, blah, blah, blah!

    Let's face it! That is hell. But it's a figurative form of hell. There are too many things to indicate that they're still alive, and I've always felt that way. Some of them got to the island in ways where they had to have been alive in order to do so.

    I mean, the Others that came on the submarine, the DHARMA Initiative. They all came to the island alive. There is no way possible that they arrived dead.

    And you can't say the juice had a poison in it because they offer it on the ride out too. I remember that from the fifth season finale.

    It's just not possible. They're alive, end of discussion.
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  • Avatar of shan73

    shan73

    [14]Mar 25, 2010
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    How can Richard say he is in hell?? when he can come and go from the island??
    He went to see Locke when he was born? and again and again...
    This episode has now generated more questions in my mind...
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  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [15]Mar 25, 2010
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    After MIB revealed that Jacob had been hiding vital information from him all this time coupled with Jacob's death his convictions were shaken to the core.
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    cindycee

    [16]Mar 25, 2010
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    i wonder if jacob really wanted to be killed so that he could get the mib stuck in lockes body and therefore make him easier to kill, i mean if prior to jacobs death mib was able to be anyone, he would be kinda hard to kill. i just wonder how mib can be killed now, does jacob hafta find his own loophole, and what will it be!
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  • Avatar of generalbrent

    generalbrent

    [17]Mar 28, 2010
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    All good answers, but doesn't it seem like we've gone from a show about "people crashed on an island wanting to survive and get home (with people already living on the island)" to "The fate of the world rests on one clearly supernatural being's ability to keep an evil supernatural being on an island and away from the rest of the world, and the role that the crash survivors are fairly small in comparison"???

    Just like Alias, this feels like its gone from a cool show to a supernatural and completely unbelievable show.
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  • Avatar of Codgin

    Codgin

    [18]Mar 28, 2010
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    generalbrent wrote:
    All good answers, but doesn't it seem like we've gone from a show about "people crashed on an island wanting to survive and get home (with people already living on the island)" to "The fate of the world rests on one clearly supernatural being's ability to keep an evil supernatural being on an island and away from the rest of the world, and the role that the crash survivors are fairly small in comparison"??? Just like Alias, this feels like its gone from a cool show to a supernatural and completely unbelievable show.


    When you consider the show started with people surriving a plane crash, a man who couldn't walk but suddenly could (Just like that),a black smoke monster ripping up trees, polar bears in the jungle, a pirate ship, a kid who could appear places he shouldnt and summon birds??, a hatch that was saving the world, I'd say the show hasn't got any less belivable as time has passed...
    And the journey the "Losties" have taken to get to this point makes sense, they all wanted to get home, some did and soon learnt that there was nothing back home for them, so they came back because "Fate" had something bigger planned for them on island and it does they have all been a part of a massive game/war all along and one must take the place of Jacob to keep BSG on island and save the world (Who knows maybe they do this by pressing a button every 108 minutes...), this makes the Losties the most important people in the world. Especially Jack look at the journey he has took to get to this point

    Edited on 03/28/2010 6:12am
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  • Avatar of rondetto

    rondetto

    [19]Mar 28, 2010
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    I know my thoughts have been said to be rubbish. But I do have my theory which I guess we all have, though


    we all differ on what we think the ending will be.


    Firstly, maybe they are dead, maybe not. It doesn't really matter. Simply because....there is no such thing as time travel, no


    such thing as smoke monsters, no such thing as dead people coming alive etc etc etc.


    So, back to my theory, and some will recall I've said this from series 1.


    I think someone has been undergoing an operation, maybe Jack or his father are operating or being operated on.


    It may be a near death experience or a dream while under anaesthetic, but whoever it is has met all these people


    and has dreamt about all this during their operation.


    Ok, kick that one about.

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  • Avatar of Codgin

    Codgin

    [20]Mar 28, 2010
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    so basically a wizard of oz? a life on mars (Not the US rubbish the UK)? See the main problem with that ending is this theres been no real clues to that being so, and all the other charchters flash back forward side and so on would render useless. The show would have been soley on one charchter all along (Like LOM, Sam Tyler, and how he kept hearing the nurses and people talking to him whilst he lay there) and it hasn't. Although you could argue Jacob represents white cells, a cure, an antidote and bsg represents some sort of cancer and keeping him on island is a metaphor for stopping the infection spreading... actually the more I type the more this makes sense... so ill stop. Wouldnt it be great if we had a waynes world ending, were they experimented with different ones and there was no definitive, and on the DVD you can chose which you enjoyed most and make that the ending lol

    Edited on 03/28/2010 6:57am
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