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ABC (ended 2010)

can anybody explain to me why charlie locked himself and let himself drawn?

  • Avatar of CopyRi8

    CopyRi8

    [1]May 29, 2007
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    can anybody explain to me why charlie locked himself and let himself drawn?

     he could just left with desmond why he locked himself in that room

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  • Avatar of sunlust

    sunlust

    [2]May 29, 2007
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    There were a number of topics on this so i ended up just putting it in my sig below.  So long as you remember that Charlie was "destined" to die and had discovered he couldn't beat death, switching off his self preservation instinct, the rest of the motivations start to make sense, whether he believed dying would save claire or not.

    Oh plus that door seals from the inside for some reason, possibly to secure yourself in there in case of depressurization and radio for rescue?  Dharma only knows...

    Edited on 05/29/2007 1:46am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of TenaciouslyDark

    TenaciouslyDark

    [3]May 29, 2007
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    I suppose, as told by Desmond, that Claire would get off the island only if he dies.  I guess Charlie was afraid that if he didn't die, then she wouldn't be rescued.  Such a pity though, Charlie was cool.
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  • Avatar of sm87

    sm87

    [4]May 29, 2007
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    He did it because the door I think (im not an expert) only locks from the inside and he had to lock the door so the station didn't flood. He did it to save Desmond.

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  • Avatar of StevieGstar

    StevieGstar

    [5]May 29, 2007
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    sm87 wrote:

    He did it because the door I think (im not an expert) only locks from the inside and he had to lock the door so the station didn't flood. He did it to save Desmond.

    I doubt from the length of time it took the room charlie was in to fill up with water, that Desmond was in any danger of drowning.

    And yes Charlie believed that he was doing the right thing in drowning to get Claire and Aaron rescued. As Desmond said he had to die. It will be interesting to see whether Desmond has anymore premonitions and who may be next on the Grim Reapers list!! 

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  • Avatar of mmvv76

    mmvv76

    [6]May 29, 2007
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    but when desmond went back to his normal life just for a day (when locke didn't press the button and he had to turn the key) he saw charlie singing on the street, didn't he? so maybe that's a way you can get out of the island... you sacrifice yourself on the island and you go back to normal!!! also, when they do, they can't remember anything about it cause i don't think charlie recognised desmond.
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  • Avatar of Wrightlot

    Wrightlot

    [7]May 29, 2007
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    There is no logical reason that I can think of for Charlie to lock himself in except that he expected to die.  If the door locked from the inside then all he had to do was step outside, shut it and the force of the water will lock it shut.  He and Desmond could have then swum to the surface before there was any risk of the whole area being flooded, after all they swam down there and they are not that deep.  Unless they didn't want it flooded but why because the signal was turned off and the room that governs it is now flooded anyway.  Nothing makes sense anymore!

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  • Avatar of simpleton7

    simpleton7

    [8]May 29, 2007
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    First I thought the water might have decompressed the main room, but that line of thinking got me nowhere, so I think it was just rubbish direction/choreography. It's a shame because it made Charlie's death seem really pointless, it was hard to feel involved.
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  • Avatar of sunlust

    sunlust

    [9]May 29, 2007
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    simpleton7 wrote:
    First I thought the water might have decompressed the main room, but that line of thinking got me nowhere, so I think it was just rubbish direction/choreography. It's a shame because it made Charlie's death seem really pointless, it was hard to feel involved.

    Oh come on, would you have felt better if he met his demise after the events in his "lovefest" episode? Or would you rather have a whole new season of Desmond chasing his tail saving the damned? Either of those would seem a copout, at least this way he had an opportunity to think he was in the clear then was forced into a quick moral dilemma.  He chose to "gamble" though it wasn't Penny's boat, that his death would still spell rescue.  Plus he felt he could save Desmond from not wanting to remove himself from the "smaller room".  Truth is when you clear the "rubbish" out of your eyes, he never had and NEVER would have had a BETTER moment to die!

    I thought it was much better this way, that Charlie had the opportunity to "change his fate" but he said "enough is enough" and chose not to.  The only thing that Charlie has EVER done that was admirable, even running after Claire's baby with a hole in his head or saving Jack from the cave-in seem incredibly limp by comparison.

    I think some people need to start "waking up" about this, either reevaluate and broaden you position, or shelve it.

    If you can't it's probably time to "move on" entirely...

    Edited on 05/29/2007 5:19am
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  • Avatar of daz24

    daz24

    [10]May 29, 2007
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    here's a story, desmond really hates charlie and wants claire to himself so he tells him to kill himself, thats not a bad idea! he's using his powers for evil! lol
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  • Avatar of robbroc12

    robbroc12

    [11]May 29, 2007
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    wow people are still yammering about this?  like it's a big deal, charlie was dead from the second we realized it during flashes before your eyes, if you havent been able to realize that after this many episodes its pretty sad.
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  • Avatar of Katie_mkd

    Katie_mkd

    [12]May 29, 2007
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    BECAUSE IN DESMOND VISION HE DIED AND ALL GOT RESCUED. SO HE DIED BECAUSE DENMOND TOLD HIM THAT HE HAS TO DIE SO CLAIRE AND AARON GOT RESCUED, SO AND EVERYBODY ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  • Avatar of Katie_mkd

    Katie_mkd

    [13]May 29, 2007
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    mmvv76 wrote:
    but when desmond went back to his normal life just for a day (when locke didn't press the button and he had to turn the key) he saw charlie singing on the street, didn't he? so maybe that's a way you can get out of the island... you sacrifice yourself on the island and you go back to normal!!! also, when they do, they can't remember anything about it cause i don't think charlie recognised desmond.

    No than Desnmond WENT BACK TO THE PAST!!!!! When he and Charlie didn't knew each other. That's why Desmond recognise Charlie, but Charlie didn't recognised Desmond
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  • Avatar of sfaberge

    sfaberge

    [14]May 29, 2007
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    There was no logical reason why Charlie HAD to die other than that he wanted to.

    The door had a wheel on both sides, he could easily have shut it from the outside and Desmond could have opened once Charlie had shut it (unless Charlie deliberately locked it). Even if he didn't shut the door there would still have been enough time for him too leave the station before it was flooded. The porthole was small and it took ages to fill that tiny room so it would have taken even longer to fill the whole station. Even if the door was never shut, and the station completely flooded, they could still survive until they got their scuba gear on. The water would only have risen to the level of the porthole which was well below the top of the station.
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  • Avatar of DJ-Mateo

    DJ-Mateo

    [15]May 29, 2007
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    He's dead because writers decided so, there's no "what if" or "why". Charlie doesn't make the calls, the writers do End of story
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  • Avatar of locke-ness

    locke-ness

    [16]May 29, 2007
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    This is a popular topic. Just a few thoughts that I have posted at length in other threads:

    Practically speaking, Charlie couldn't lock the hatch from outside the room.

    1. The hatch secured from the inside. That means that the air tight seal could only be made by securing the hatch from inside. Unless there was an air tight seal the force of the water would not have kept it closed.

    EDIT: The door to the looking glass opens out into the Moon Pool compartment.  Which means that the pressure from the flooding water would have forced the door open.  Check out the pics here: Link   The pic about three quarters of the page down shows the female with the rifle standign in front of the hatch.  the hinges arew on the outside (it opens out into the moon pool room)

     

    2. Not securing the hatch would have led to a disaster for the Lookin Glass. Water is only prevented from flooding in from the moon pool because there is a pocket of air inside the looking glass. Once the porthole was breached water began to flood in BUT air also began to flood out (water and air cannot occupy the same space). If Charlie hadn't closed the hatch immediately, the flooding would have been much greater because the moon pool would have flooded into the compartment as the air escaped through the porthole. The result may well have been a vacuum effect (as when a ship sinks).

    Philosophically speaking, the story is about sacrifice for redemption.

    Sunlust has made some good points about Charlie fighting off or switching off his survival instinct. personally, I think what the producers intended was to put Charlie in a position where he had to make that one final decision whether or nto he was willing to sacrifice his life for someone else. For Claire and Aaron it was a little easier for Charlie (he cared deeply about them) and he had time to psych himself up for the job. With the breach of the porthole, Charlie had a split second decision. Stop the flood or run for safety. Save Desmond or not. That was what made his death heroic. He was in many ways a pitiable and unsavory charcater. But, in the end, Charlie was willing to sacrifice himself for the well-being of someone else. That was why he had to die. The act redeemed him for his past actions and brought hmi more in line with who he could have been had he not fallen into drugs.

     

    Edited on 05/29/2007 7:41am
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  • Avatar of ssa2204

    ssa2204

    [17]May 29, 2007
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    I do not have a problem per se when a character dies, but I did have a problem of how this one died. It seemed afterwards that the writers just could not come up with a better way, which they should be faulted on. Some of you are very precise in pointing out that there was no logical reason to stay in that room and close the door. Considering that they both swam down, what exactly was stopping them from simply swimming up? Consider also that it is easier to go up than down! Also consider at which the rate of the water was flooding into that room, and now consider how big the entire area was and you can easily see that there was more than enough time to easily swim out. In fact I am sure both would have had enough time to enjoy a smoke break before going up. 

    If he was destined to die by the writers whim, it would have been better to have written a scenario where that Russian guy gets up and knifes him in the back. 

    Other than Desmond simply no longer wanted to see Charlie in his visions, there was no reason not to tell him in advance how things were going to happen. In this event Charlie need only to have left the room beforehand. In this event, it should be the writers job to show us that Desmond wanted Charlie to die for this reason.

    All in all I just find this another link in a whole chain of plotholes and poor and illogical writing. The story of Lost may be interesting, but I do find the actual writing leaves too much to be desired 

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  • Avatar of SmkDrgn

    SmkDrgn

    [18]May 29, 2007
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    Charlies death was badly done, the door can be shut form the outside, yes it has a lock on the inside, so does my front door.  The door can be closed and sealed from the outside using the wheel, and to be honest it is irrelevant as he could have easily just walked out and swam to freedom with desmond.  It wouldve made more sense if Mikhael had detonated the grenade inside injuring Charlie and damaging the station.  That wouldve made sense.  Also I bet you that Mikhael comes back next season even though the explosion surely wouldve killed him.
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    paul2k4

    [19]May 29, 2007
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    Yes. Somebody can explain it.
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  • Avatar of Pahana

    Pahana

    [20]May 29, 2007
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    mmvv76 wrote:
    but when desmond went back to his normal life just for a day (when locke didn't press the button and he had to turn the key) he saw charlie singing on the street, didn't he? so maybe that's a way you can get out of the island... you sacrifice yourself on the island and you go back to normal!!! also, when they do, they can't remember anything about it cause i don't think charlie recognised desmond.

     

    All of that happened in the past before Desmond ever came to the island.  That's why Charlie didn't recognize him. 

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