Lost Forums

ABC (ended 2010)

The H-bomb. Did it work or not?

  • Avatar of kidcapri73

    kidcapri73

    [21]May 26, 2010
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    cowboy2831 wrote:

    kidcapri73 wrote:
    cowboy2831 wrote:


    kidcapri73 wrote:
    HOOKEDONLOST wrote:


    It did not go off. It was the magnetic event that sent them back to 2007. If the nuke had gone they all would have died. Only Juliet died at the time due to her injuries. The DI then built the hatch to cover the area.


    I agree the bomb didn't go off, but I think Juliet should have been transported to 2007 with the rest because she wasn't dead yet. As for Miles hearing "it worked", I would like to think she would be communicating something more important than being able to get a candy bar in the afterlife.


    As far as I could tell, she was transported to 2007 along with Kate, Jack, Sawyer, Hurley, Jin, Sayid, Miles, Rose, and Bernard (may have left someone out), and then she died. Sawyer and Miles buried her, then shortly after were both captured by the Others and taken to the Temple. That all occured in 2007.


    I certainly don't recall any acknowledgement of Juliet being with them when they transported. Just Sawyer being very angry with Jack about the whole plan that didn't work and resulted in Juliet's death. No body to bury.


    Really? Did you watch LA X?


    I did watch it, but I guess I forgot it. So, she did transport with the rest of them? So many little details that one must have slipped my mind. But I still say the bomb didn't go off, nothing was reset and I'm still wondering what "worked".
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  • Avatar of ajokurvanyad

    ajokurvanyad

    [22]May 26, 2010
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    Kevnay777 wrote:



    Ok I actually wasn't sure about the sinking of the island or not but my theory is correct. If they blew up the hatch which is the place Desmond was suppose to have not pressed the button resulting in the 815 crashing, then nothing will happen. They would have still kept going and landing in LAX. However in the timeline they were suppose to have went back to 1977 to do this but since they never crashed they couldn't have time traveled. Which is why they were transported back to the present time because all the events just sort of cancelled out.



    actualy that makes absolute sense.cause and effect.brilliant.they didn't think that one through)) juliet dyed fro nothing)))


    so what triggered the jump guys?

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    Kevnay777

    [23]May 26, 2010
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    ajokurvanyad wrote:


    Kevnay777 wrote:



    Ok I actually wasn't sure about the sinking of the island or not but my theory is correct. If they blew up the hatch which is the place Desmond was suppose to have not pressed the button resulting in the 815 crashing, then nothing will happen. They would have still kept going and landing in LAX. However in the timeline they were suppose to have went back to 1977 to do this but since they never crashed they couldn't have time traveled. Which is why they were transported back to the present time because all the events just sort of cancelled out.



    actualy that makes absolute sense.cause and effect.brilliant.they didn't think that one through)) juliet dyed fro nothing)))


    so what triggered the jump guys?




    I get the impression that your being sarcastic with me.Undecided

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  • Avatar of ajokurvanyad

    ajokurvanyad

    [24]May 26, 2010
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    Kevnay777 wrote:


    ajokurvanyad wrote:


    Kevnay777 wrote:



    Ok I actually wasn't sure about the sinking of the island or not but my theory is correct. If they blew up the hatch which is the place Desmond was suppose to have not pressed the button resulting in the 815 crashing, then nothing will happen. They would have still kept going and landing in LAX. However in the timeline they were suppose to have went back to 1977 to do this but since they never crashed they couldn't have time traveled. Which is why they were transported back to the present time because all the events just sort of cancelled out.



    actualy that makes absolute sense.cause and effect.brilliant.they didn't think that one through)) juliet dyed fro nothing)))


    so what triggered the jump guys?




    I get the impression that your being sarcastic with me.


    no dude.you got the wrong impression.your theory is rock solid.i agree in fact it's logic that agrees.i just don't understand what triggered the last and final flash...

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  • Avatar of Kevnay777

    Kevnay777

    [25]May 26, 2010
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    ajokurvanyad wrote:


    Kevnay777 wrote:


    ajokurvanyad wrote:


    Kevnay777 wrote:



    Ok I actually wasn't sure about the sinking of the island or not but my theory is correct. If they blew up the hatch which is the place Desmond was suppose to have not pressed the button resulting in the 815 crashing, then nothing will happen. They would have still kept going and landing in LAX. However in the timeline they were suppose to have went back to 1977 to do this but since they never crashed they couldn't have time traveled. Which is why they were transported back to the present time because all the events just sort of cancelled out.



    actualy that makes absolute sense.cause and effect.brilliant.they didn't think that one through)) juliet dyed fro nothing)))


    so what triggered the jump guys?




    I get the impression that your being sarcastic with me.


    no dude.you got the wrong impression.your theory is rock solid.i agree in fact it's logic that agrees.i just don't understand what triggered the last and final flash...




    O ok cool. I mean like I said again if they were never on the island they couldn't have time traveled and detonated the bomb which meant that the bomb technically didn't work. Which is why they flashed back into the present time because they still crashed on the island despite trying to prevent it. I mean theirs really no way to prove me right but thats how I thought everything happened. If you want you can look up the grandfather paradox, its pretty much the same concept and maybe you can understand what I'm trying to say better. Smile

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  • Avatar of ajokurvanyad

    ajokurvanyad

    [26]May 26, 2010
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    Kevnay777 wrote:


    ajokurvanyad wrote:


    Kevnay777 wrote:


    ajokurvanyad wrote:


    Kevnay777 wrote:



    Ok I actually wasn't sure about the sinking of the island or not but my theory is correct. If they blew up the hatch which is the place Desmond was suppose to have not pressed the button resulting in the 815 crashing, then nothing will happen. They would have still kept going and landing in LAX. However in the timeline they were suppose to have went back to 1977 to do this but since they never crashed they couldn't have time traveled. Which is why they were transported back to the present time because all the events just sort of cancelled out.



    actualy that makes absolute sense.cause and effect.brilliant.they didn't think that one through)) juliet dyed fro nothing)))


    so what triggered the jump guys?




    I get the impression that your being sarcastic with me.


    no dude.you got the wrong impression.your theory is rock solid.i agree in fact it's logic that agrees.i just don't understand what triggered the last and final flash...




    O ok cool. I mean like I said again if they were never on the island they couldn't have time traveled and detonated the bomb which meant that the bomb technically didn't work. Which is why they flashed back into the present time because they still crashed on the island despite trying to prevent it. I mean theirs really no way to prove me right but thats how I thought everything happened. If you want you can look up the grandfather paradox, its pretty much the same concept and maybe you can understand what I'm trying to say better.



    yeah i'm familiar with the paradox theory.they have some theories on resolving that one but they're really a long shot and involve paralel universes based on schroedinger's cat.if time travel backwards is possible then the only way to avoid the grandfather paradox is if you end up in a "paralel" universe.

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  • Avatar of Kevnay777

    Kevnay777

    [27]May 26, 2010
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    @ajokurvanyad


    Yea I have read about the paralel universe theories but in Lost's case none of them applied. They didn't travel to the parelleluniverse they just jumped back to present time. The alternate universe was always there knowing what we know about it, it wasn't what would have happened if they didn't crash, it was more like a completely different life without the island at all. So the Losties didn't create the parellel universe which meant that time traveling theories apply.

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    KingofIPirates

    [28]May 26, 2010
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    Kevnay777 wrote:
    Ok I actually wasn't sure about the sinking of the island or not but my theory is correct. If they blew up the hatch which is the place Desmond was suppose to have not pressed the button resulting in the 815 crashing, then nothing will happen. They would have still kept going and landing in LAX. However in the timeline they were suppose to have went back to 1977 to do this but since they never crashed they couldn't have time traveled. Which is why they were transported back to the present time because all the events just sort of cancelled out.
    Yeah... except there was an old picture of them in the current time showing them back in the 70's so they did time travel..
    The problem with this is your basically placating a paradox when it doesn't have to be. What Daniel was trying to do was create an alternate timeline where the events changed and they didn't crash; not necessarily reverse and change the events of the current timeline they were in because that timeline would still be in effect no matter what you do. So by blowing up the bomb the Losties would naturally die in that timeline they time traveled in but it would in turn create a new timeline where the electromagnetism that brought there plane down would cease to exist.


    But this attempt failed because the burst of electromagnetism did go off before the bomb exploded transporting them back to the present and in effect changing nothing.
    Edited on 05/26/2010 2:50pm
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  • Avatar of kidcapri73

    kidcapri73

    [29]May 26, 2010
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    .[/QUOTE]Yeah... except there was an old picture of them in the current time showing them back in the 70's so they did time travel..
    The problem with this is your basically placating a paradox when it doesn't have to be. What Daniel was trying to do was create an alternate timeline where the events changed and they didn't crash; not necessarily reverse and change the events of the current timeline they were in because that timeline would still be in effect no matter what you do. So by blowing up the bomb the Losties would naturally die in that timeline they time traveled in but it would in turn create a new timeline where the electromagnetism that brought there plane down would cease to exist.


    But this attempt failed because the burst of electromagnetism did go off before the bomb exploded transporting them back to the present and in effect changing nothing.[/QUOTE]
    This was my premise for this thread from the beginning. There was only 1 timeline and the bomb changed nothing--it didn't even go off. If it had exploded and they jumped to 2007 just before it did, there would have been a huge crater there from the explosion or some other evidence of it, because they were still in the same timeline, just 30 years later.
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    ajokurvanyad

    [30]May 26, 2010
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    KingofIPirates wrote:
    Yeah... except there was an old picture of them in the current time showing them back in the 70's so they did time travel..
    The problem with this is your basically placating a paradox when it doesn't have to be. What Daniel was trying to do was create an alternate timeline where the events changed and they didn't crash; not necessarily reverse and change the events of the current timeline they were in because that timeline would still be in effect no matter what you do. So by blowing up the bomb the Losties would naturally die in that timeline they time traveled in but it would in turn create a new timeline where the electromagnetism that brought there plane down would cease to exist.
    But this attempt failed because the burst of electromagnetism did go off before the bomb exploded transporting them back to the present and in effect changing nothing.


    so Daniel was trying to create a new time line with the moment of the explosion being this new time lines 1st nano-second.the big bang?they wouldn't even exist in that time line. nothing would....well maybe some matter but...i give up

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    Kevnay777

    [31]May 26, 2010
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    @king of pirates


    So what are you saying about me putting a paradox in my explanation? I get the impression that you know more about the paradox theory than I do and I'm interested to see your full explanation.

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    KingofIPirates

    [32]May 26, 2010
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    ajokurvanyad wrote:

    so Daniel was trying to create a new time line with the moment of the explosion being this new time lines 1st nano-second.the big bang?they wouldn't even exist in that time line. nothing would....well maybe some matter but...i give up

    Once you go back in the past and change the events of what occured in that past you usually create a new timeline. If the bomb exploded a different future stemming from that explosion would emerge where the electromagnetic energy ceased to exist. The electromagnetic energy still exists in the timeline that brought down their plane but in the new timeline that no longer happens.
    Kevnay777 wrote:

    @king of pirates


    So what are you saying about me putting a paradox in my explanation? I get the impression that you know more about the paradox theory than I do and I'm interested to see your full explanation.

    The problem with a paradox is that there really is no way to solve it as it basically makes both sides of a contradictory statement true. In your theory you make the bomb go off, altering the current timeline instead of just creating a new one and then wrap it up by making the events cancel each other out. But the events can't cancel each other out because they both would technically still happen and they both can't be wrong because both were shown and stated to occur. So you can't negate the experience the Losties had in the 70's because we saw that happen and you can't negate the fact the bomb went off which would've made them not be on the island in the first place, so you end up with both sides being true despite both of them contradicting each other.
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    ajokurvanyad

    [33]May 26, 2010
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    [QUOTE="KingofIPirates"]

    ajokurvanyad wrote:


    so Daniel was trying to create a new time line with the moment of the explosion being this new time lines 1st nano-second.the big bang?they wouldn't even exist in that time line. nothing would....well maybe some matter but...i give up


    Once you go back in the past and change the events of what occured in that past you usually create a new timeline. If the bomb exploded a different future stemming from that explosion would emerge where the electromagnetic energy ceased to exist. The electromagnetic energy still exists in the timeline that brought down their plane but in the new timeline that no longer happens.
    Kevnay777 wrote:



    so you're saying if you change a past event you duplicate the time line up to the point of the change?you create 14billion years worth of cosmic interactions with one act?really?tell me you're not saying that

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    Kevnay777

    [34]May 26, 2010
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    @king of pirates


    So basically me saying that if the bomb went off and it worked, and they were never on the island to be able to time travel thus not being able to detonate the bomb, and finally them ending up in the present timeline is the paradox? I think I worded my first statement wrong by saying that the events canceled.

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    kidcapri73

    [35]May 26, 2010
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    KingofIPirates wrote:
    ajokurvanyad wrote:


    so Daniel was trying to create a new time line with the moment of the explosion being this new time lines 1st nano-second.the big bang?they wouldn't even exist in that time line. nothing would....well maybe some matter but...i give up


    Once you go back in the past and change the events of what occured in that past you usually create a new timeline. If the bomb exploded a different future stemming from that explosion would emerge where the electromagnetic energy ceased to exist. The electromagnetic energy still exists in the timeline that brought down their plane but in the new timeline that no longer happens.
    Kevnay777 wrote:


    @king of pirates


    So what are you saying about me putting a paradox in my explanation? I get the impression that you know more about the paradox theory than I do and I'm interested to see your full explanation.


    The problem with a paradox is that there really is no way to solve it as it basically makes both sides of a contradictory statement true. In your theory you make the bomb go off, altering the current timeline instead of just creating a new one and then wrap it up by making the events cancel each other out. But the events can't cancel each other out because they both would technically still happen and they both can't be wrong because both were shown and stated to occur. So you can't negate the experience the Losties had in the 70's because we saw that happen and you can't negate the fact the bomb went off which would've made them not be on the island in the first place, so you end up with both sides being true despite both of them contradicting each other.
    I think it's easier to explain what happened by the bomb not going off at all. If the bomb didn't go off (which is what I believe), they flashed ahead to 2007 in the same way they were flashing back and forth in time previously. The bomb wasn't needed for that to happen. No new timeline, everything that happened on the island and off of it for the 3 years that the Oceanic 6 were away and all of the events of the '70's really did occur.


    If the bomb did go off all those in the vicinity of the blast would have died right then and there. You might say they time shifted just before the blast, but that would mean there would be evidence of huge explosion at the spot even 30 years later, which there wasn't.

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    KingofIPirates

    [36]May 26, 2010
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    ajokurvanyad wrote:

    so you're saying if you change a past event you duplicate the time line up to the point of the change?you create 14billion years worth of cosmic interactions with one act?really?tell me you're not saying that
    Yes, because you change what occured in the past. The original past of what occured isn't all of a sudden going to be erased because that timeline would remain unaffected as it created the present enabling you to change the past.

    Kevnay777 wrote:

    @king of pirates


    So basically me saying that if the bomb went off and it worked, and they were never on the island to be able to time travel thus not being able to detonate the bomb, is the paradox?.

    That is a paradox.
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    Kevnay777

    [37]May 26, 2010
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    @King of pirates


    So do you think if I went back in time and changed something when I go back to my present will it be the same present or will I end up in an alternate universe that I created while changing the event?

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    OOsteb

    [38]May 26, 2010
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    Coffee any one ?

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    KingofIPirates

    [39]May 26, 2010
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    Kevnay777 wrote:
    So do you think if I went back in time and changed something when I go back to my present will it be the same present or will I end up in an alternate universe that I created while changing the event?
    It really depends on the writer. Some make it so that you can change the past, altering everything that occured in the timeline basically erasing that timelines previous past(But that tends to create paradoxes). Some have it where if you change something, the original past of that timeline doesn't get erased and remains the same but a new timeline with a new past and future develops.
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    OOsteb

    [40]May 26, 2010
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    I think Back To The Future had it right when it came to changing things in the past.

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