Lost Forums

ABC (ended 2010)

The H-bomb. Did it work or not?

  • Avatar of cindycee

    cindycee

    [41]May 26, 2010
    • member since: 07/28/07
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 533
    KingofIPirates wrote:
    H-Bomb's can't do that, it was the eerie light that did all that and returned them to their own time as it was the light in the first place that got them in the 70's and the light is the only energy source that has demonstrated time travel.
    cindycee wrote:
    and i think it must have had something to do with 'creating' this waiting area they were all in in the sideways flash, coz christian was pretty insistent that they created that place for them to all meet, so this was the only big thing that they seemed to do that may have created it.
    How exactly does an H-Bomb create an afterlife? Specifically with the stipulations being that they're eventually going to meet up again, hug and move on. It's more likely(while still seemingly ridiculous) that when you die you gain magical abilities that allows you to create a form of purgatory


    yeah i suppose that the bomb could have broken thru to this pocket of energy though, to release that energy, i dont think it was coincidence (is this where i say dont mistake fate for coincidence lol)

    yes it is possible that they had some kind of magical ability after they died too to create this place.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [42]May 26, 2010
    • member since: 08/11/06
    • level: 32
    • rank: Whammy!
    • posts: 45,832
    The bomb was intended to destroy that energy, and the Dharma intiative had already broken through to the pocket of energy as it was being released in small amounts which was gradually increasing which was why all the metal surrounding that site was being drawn in.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ajokurvanyad

    ajokurvanyad

    [43]May 27, 2010
    • member since: 05/25/10
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 167

    KingofIPirates wrote:
    ajokurvanyad wrote:
    so you're saying if you change a past event you duplicate the time line up to the point of the change?you create 14billion years worth of cosmic interactions with one act?really?tell me you're not saying that
    Yes, because you change what occured in the past. The original past of what occured isn't all of a sudden going to be erased because that timeline would remain unaffected as it created the present enabling you to change the past.


    ok,i get that the time line wich brought you to going backwards can not be erased.but i have serious problems comprehanding how one bring into existence a whole universe.i've mentioned in this thread beofre that there are theories wich resolve the paradoxas with almoust the same thing you said.the difference is the only way time travel is possible is if you end up in one these alternate universes(wich is already in existence but not quite like our universe) so you can't create paradoxes.problem again is how these universes come to be,the basis is that whatever can happen will happen.if i am presented with a minimum of two choices than i will choose both,each one in a different universe and that is where the differences between these universes lay making their number infinite......does this make any sense to you?))

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [44]May 27, 2010
    • member since: 08/11/06
    • level: 32
    • rank: Whammy!
    • posts: 45,832
    ajokurvanyad wrote:
    but i have serious problems comprehanding how one bring into existence a whole universe.

    All right, for example you come from a future where a certain man was responsible for starting a nuclear war that destroyed much of the planet. The earth, society and technology is set back thousands of years but eventually the earth rebuilts and returns to form. You go back in time and kill that man promptly saving billions of life and create a new timeline where much of the planet wasn't destroyed and human development wasn't set back thousands of years, but instead experienced vast gains in science and technology so much so that they begin deep space exploration, the population skyrockets and with new technology comes the ability to colonize planets and a new interstellar community is born.

    So obviously this timeline is vastly different from the previous timeline as billions of lives are influenced and a quadrillion more connections were made and with those lives that were saved, it lead to extreme progress which forever influenced future generations and those future generations make more connections and the growth of connections, ideas, beliefs,etc increase exponentially the further down you go into that future.

    ajokurvanyad wrote:
    problem again is how these universes come to be,the basis is that whatever can happen will happen.if i am presented with a minimum of two choices than i will choose both,each one in a different universe and that is where the differences between these universes lay making their number infinite......does this make any sense to you?))
    And of those two choices if you go back in time and change one you create an alternate timeline similar to the one where the same choice was made.
    Edited on 05/27/2010 8:26am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ajokurvanyad

    ajokurvanyad

    [45]May 27, 2010
    • member since: 05/25/10
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 167

    KingofIPirates wrote:
    All right, for example you come from a future where a certain man was responsible for starting a nuclear war that destroyed much of the planet. The earth, society and technology is set back thousands of years but eventually the earth rebuilts and returns to form. You go back in time and kill that man promptly saving billions of life and create a new timeline where much of the planet wasn't destroyed and human development wasn't set back thousands of years, but instead experienced vast gains in science and technology so much so that they begin deep space exploration, the population skyrockets and with new technology comes the ability to colonize planets and a new interstellar community is born. So obviously this timeline is vastly different from the previous timeline as billions of lives are influenced and a quadrillion more connections were made and with those lives that were saved, it lead to extreme progress which forever influenced future generations and those future generations make more connections and the growth of connections, ideas, beliefs,etc increase exponentially the further down you go into that future.


    ok you set in motion a new chain of events from the point when you kill the dude and that is the new time line right?but that would mean the new time line's point 0 is the act of you killin him.where would you get all the events that make it possible for him to even exist in the new time line?


    KingofIPirates wrote:
    And of those two choices if you go back in time and change one you create an alternate timeline similar to the one where the same choice was made.


    my brain is meeeltiiiiiiiiing.....D'oH!

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of kidcapri73

    kidcapri73

    [46]May 27, 2010
    • member since: 02/21/08
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 58

    ajokurvanyad wrote:


    KingofIPirates wrote:
    All right, for example you come from a future where a certain man was responsible for starting a nuclear war that destroyed much of the planet. The earth, society and technology is set back thousands of years but eventually the earth rebuilts and returns to form. You go back in time and kill that man promptly saving billions of life and create a new timeline where much of the planet wasn't destroyed and human development wasn't set back thousands of years, but instead experienced vast gains in science and technology so much so that they begin deep space exploration, the population skyrockets and with new technology comes the ability to colonize planets and a new interstellar community is born. So obviously this timeline is vastly different from the previous timeline as billions of lives are influenced and a quadrillion more connections were made and with those lives that were saved, it lead to extreme progress which forever influenced future generations and those future generations make more connections and the growth of connections, ideas, beliefs,etc increase exponentially the further down you go into that future.


    ok you set in motion a new chain of events from the point when you kill the dude and that is the new time line right?but that would mean the new time line's point 0 is the act of you killin him.where would you get all the events that make it possible for him to even exist in the new time line?


    KingofIPirates wrote:
    And of those two choices if you go back in time and change one you create an alternate timeline similar to the one where the same choice was made.


    my brain is meeeltiiiiiiiiing.....D'oH!


    This is why it doesn't make sense that the bomb went off--too many things don't make sense. Now if you just for a few minutes make the assumption that the bomb never went off, and the time shift just happened at the moment that it did (after all, none of the previous time shifts required an H-bomb), how does that affect all the theories regarding paradoxes and so forth. It becomes much easier to explain the events that actually occur within the same timeline, without splitting off into a parallel universe. Things actually kinda make sense. Of course the whole afterlife timeline doesn't, but it wouldn't anyway, as it really had nothing to do with any of the events on the island, just the people within it happened to spend part of their life on the island.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [47]May 27, 2010
    • member since: 08/11/06
    • level: 32
    • rank: Whammy!
    • posts: 45,832
    ajokurvanyad wrote:
    ok you set in motion a new chain of events from the point when you kill the dude and that is the new time line right?but that would mean the new time line's point 0 is the act of you killin him.where would you get all the events that make it possible for him to even exist in the new time line?
    Why wouldn't he exist in the new timeline? You don't automatically die once the timeline changes, the events around you begin to change once that man dies. Like if that man was supposed to make an important call at exactly 12:00pm and you kill him at 11:59am, that call no longer gets made and the chain reaction ensues.
    Edited on 05/27/2010 10:23am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of valenerramouspe

    valenerramouspe

    [48]May 27, 2010
    • member since: 11/26/06
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 191
    All the bomb did (don't ask me how) was zap them back to 2007. And Juliet DID come along, remember Sawyer carrying her out and telling Jack "You did this"? Or the going dutch conversation? The writers left a million things unanswered, so we are left with the fact that the flash-sidewayses (I guess limbo or whatever) were completely unrelated to the bomb. So for all means and purposes it didn't work, though it did something else entirely.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Kevnay777

    Kevnay777

    [49]May 27, 2010
    • member since: 05/05/10
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 310

    Regardless of the alt universe being purgatory it was never created by the Losties for two reasons.


    1.The alt universe was way to different to just have been a what would of happened if they didn't crash story. Jack having a son is an example.


    2.An alt universe is always there because an alt universe theory says that for their are already alt universe existing. Another theory states that for everything you do their are 2 or more outcomes/possibilities.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of kidcapri73

    kidcapri73

    [50]May 27, 2010
    • member since: 02/21/08
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 58
    valenerramouspe wrote:
    All the bomb did (don't ask me how) was zap them back to 2007. And Juliet DID come along, remember Sawyer carrying her out and telling Jack "You did this"? Or the going dutch conversation? The writers left a million things unanswered, so we are left with the fact that the flash-sidewayses (I guess limbo or whatever) were completely unrelated to the bomb. So for all means and purposes it didn't work, though it did something else entirely.

    Agreed, the afterlife existence had nothing to do with the bomb. I maintain that nothing at all was related to the bomb because it didn't go off. If it did explode, there would have been evidence of an H-bomb explosion 30 years later. There would have been no equipment left over from the 1970's and they would have been standing in the middle of an enormous crater. I concede that Juliet did indeed flash ahead with them, it was a detail I had forgotten, but it doesn't change anything else. None of the previous time shifts required a bomb to trigger them, so there is no reason to believe that a bomb blast was necessary to get them back to 2007.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of kidcapri73

    kidcapri73

    [51]May 27, 2010
    • member since: 02/21/08
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 58

    Kevnay777 wrote:


    Regardless of the alt universe being purgatory it was never created by the Losties for two reasons.


    1.The alt universe was way to different to just have been a what would of happened if they didn't crash story. Jack having a son is an example.


    2.An alt universe is always there because an alt universe theory says that for their are already alt universe existing. Another theory states that for everything you do their are 2 or more outcomes/possibilities.


    We were given the impression that the alt universe was somehow a result of the bomb going off and the Losties were now living lives that had been altered because of the explosion 30 years earlier, but in the end, that did not turn out to be the case. The bomb didn't go off. It wasn't even an alternative timeline, nor an alternate universe. It was an afterlife experience that had no real timeline or actual existence in the real world.


    In the real island world and the years the Oceanic 6 were in LA, there was only 1 universe and only 1 timeline that they all experienced and jumped back and forth within.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Kevnay777

    Kevnay777

    [52]May 27, 2010
    • member since: 05/05/10
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 310

    kidcapri73 wrote:


    Kevnay777 wrote:


    Regardless of the alt universe being purgatory it was never created by the Losties for two reasons.


    1.The alt universe was way to different to just have been a what would of happened if they didn't crash story. Jack having a son is an example.


    2.An alt universe is always there because an alt universe theory says that for their are already alt universe existing. Another theory states that for everything you do their are 2 or more outcomes/possibilities.


    We were given the impression that the alt universe was somehow a result of the bomb going off and the Losties were now living lives that had been altered because of the explosion 30 years earlier, but in the end, that did not turn out to be the case. The bomb didn't go off. It wasn't even an alternative timeline, nor an alternate universe. It was an afterlife experience that had no real timeline or actual existence in the real world.


    In the real island world and the years the Oceanic 6 were in LA, there was only 1 universe and only 1 timeline that they all experienced and jumped back and forth within.




    I know all of that you missed the point. I was trying to explain it to another person on here who thought that the bomb went off and created the alt universe.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of valenerramouspe

    valenerramouspe

    [53]May 27, 2010
    • member since: 11/26/06
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 191
    kidcapri73 wrote:
    valenerramouspe wrote:
    All the bomb did (don't ask me how) was zap them back to 2007. And Juliet DID come along, remember Sawyer carrying her out and telling Jack "You did this"? Or the going dutch conversation? The writers left a million things unanswered, so we are left with the fact that the flash-sidewayses (I guess limbo or whatever) were completely unrelated to the bomb. So for all means and purposes it didn't work, though it did something else entirely.

    Agreed, the afterlife existence had nothing to do with the bomb. I maintain that nothing at all was related to the bomb because it didn't go off. If it did explode, there would have been evidence of an H-bomb explosion 30 years later. There would have been no equipment left over from the 1970's and they would have been standing in the middle of an enormous crater. I concede that Juliet did indeed flash ahead with them, it was a detail I had forgotten, but it doesn't change anything else. None of the previous time shifts required a bomb to trigger them, so there is no reason to believe that a bomb blast was necessary to get them back to 2007.


    You're right, I know there's no real reason for the bomb causing the flash, but they hadn't flashed at all in three years, and suddenly juliet hits the bomb and they go to the future/present. I don't know, maybe the energy got released and that's what zapped them. It's all I can come up with.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of valenerramouspe

    valenerramouspe

    [54]May 27, 2010
    • member since: 11/26/06
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 191
    kidcapri73 wrote:
    valenerramouspe wrote:
    All the bomb did (don't ask me how) was zap them back to 2007. And Juliet DID come along, remember Sawyer carrying her out and telling Jack "You did this"? Or the going dutch conversation? The writers left a million things unanswered, so we are left with the fact that the flash-sidewayses (I guess limbo or whatever) were completely unrelated to the bomb. So for all means and purposes it didn't work, though it did something else entirely.

    Agreed, the afterlife existence had nothing to do with the bomb. I maintain that nothing at all was related to the bomb because it didn't go off. If it did explode, there would have been evidence of an H-bomb explosion 30 years later. There would have been no equipment left over from the 1970's and they would have been standing in the middle of an enormous crater. I concede that Juliet did indeed flash ahead with them, it was a detail I had forgotten, but it doesn't change anything else. None of the previous time shifts required a bomb to trigger them, so there is no reason to believe that a bomb blast was necessary to get them back to 2007.


    You're right, I know there's no real reason for the bomb causing the flash, but they hadn't flashed at all in three years, and suddenly juliet hits the bomb and they go to the future/present. I don't know, maybe the energy got released and the bomb enhanced it or something and that's what zapped them. It's all I can come up with.
    Edited on 05/27/2010 6:31pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [55]May 27, 2010
    • member since: 08/11/06
    • level: 32
    • rank: Whammy!
    • posts: 45,832
    Kevnay777 wrote:
    1.The alt universe was way to different to just have been a what would of happened if they didn't crash story. Jack having a son is an example.
    Christian confirms that they did it. And way too different? Dude in Lost when your dead you have magic powers so the very fact they're able to construct an entire city with people inside means it's not above the realm of possibility they can create new people that weren't in their lives before. So it being slightly different is not an issue. In fact if you look at it they pretty much got what they wanted, Sayid got Nadia to be alive; Locke had an excellent relationship with his father; Desmond was pals with Widmore and Widmore finally showed him the respect Desmond always wanted; Jack had a son who he could connect to; Kate got to be a truly innocent fugitive instead of guilty fugitive,
    valenerramouspe wrote:

    You're right, I know there's no real reason for the bomb causing the flash, but they hadn't flashed at all in three years, and suddenly juliet hits the bomb and they go to the future/present. I don't know, maybe the energy got released and the bomb enhanced it or something and that's what zapped them. It's all I can come up with.
    Only the flashes have been shown to time travel and they were able to easily travel several decades without the help of a bomb so it really had nothing to do with it.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Kevnay777

    Kevnay777

    [56]May 27, 2010
    • member since: 05/05/10
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 310

    @king of pirates


    See I get what your saying because you keep using what Christian said as evidence. However I think that their is a plot hole to all of this. That is if the Losties really did create this alt universe/purgatory then how come they had to go through the whole process of remembering again? I mean I guess either the writers screwed themselves over or that it really was an alt universe. See this season I sort of connected with the alt universe thats why I sort of don't believe that it was purgatory all along and if it was what was the point of the whole flash sideways? I just believe that it became purgatory or whatever anyone wants to call it when they went in the church.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [57]May 27, 2010
    • member since: 08/11/06
    • level: 32
    • rank: Whammy!
    • posts: 45,832
    Kevnay777 wrote:
    However I think that their is a plot hole to all of this.
    There are massive plotholes in the Purgatory universe in general.

    Kevnay777 wrote:
    then how come they had to go through the whole process of remembering again? I mean I guess either the writers screwed themselves over
    Writers made it that way which is where the first major plothole begins.

    Kevnay777 wrote:
    or that it really was an alt universe.
    Even during interviews after the finale they still confirmed the alt universe was a fake.

    Kevnay777 wrote:
    See this season I sort of connected with the alt universe thats why I sort of don't believe that it was purgatory all along and if it was what was the point of the whole flash sideways?
    Ultimately there was no point as the finale made the Flash sideways pointless and it pretty much discredits everything that happened on the island which is why much of the fanbase is in an uproar over the finale in the first place.
    wrote:

    Locke could have killed all the candidates, sunk the island to the bottom of the ocean and escaped to destroy the world and the ALT REALITY ENDING WOULD STILL WORK. Jack could have killed Locke and escaped with everyone else to America and the ALT REALITY ENDING WOULD STILL WORK. Aliens could have burst out of the islands glow hole and reduced them all to ashes with their ray guns and the ALT REALITY ENDING WOULD STILL WORK.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ajokurvanyad

    ajokurvanyad

    [58]May 28, 2010
    • member since: 05/25/10
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 167

    KingofIPirates wrote:
    Why wouldn't he exist in the new timeline? You don't automatically die once the timeline changes, the events around you begin to change once that man dies. Like if that man was supposed to make an important call at exactly 12:00pm and you kill him at 11:59am, that call no longer gets made and the chain reaction ensues.


    ok i think i figured out how to explain my dilemma.you look at the time line as straight line if you don't f&^k around with it.once you go back and change something it splits off in a new direction,like a Y(two now different time lines sharing a common base axe),right?my problem is that i thought you were talking bout creating a paralel time line,like I I,where you would need a longer base than the point where you changed something

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ajokurvanyad

    ajokurvanyad

    [59]May 28, 2010
    • member since: 05/25/10
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 167

    kidcapri73 wrote:
    valenerramouspe wrote:
    All the bomb did (don't ask me how) was zap them back to 2007. And Juliet DID come along, remember Sawyer carrying her out and telling Jack "You did this"? Or the going dutch conversation? The writers left a million things unanswered, so we are left with the fact that the flash-sidewayses (I guess limbo or whatever) were completely unrelated to the bomb. So for all means and purposes it didn't work, though it did something else entirely.
    Agreed, the afterlife existence had nothing to do with the bomb. I maintain that nothing at all was related to the bomb because it didn't go off. If it did explode, there would have been evidence of an H-bomb explosion 30 years later. There would have been no equipment left over from the 1970's and they would have been standing in the middle of an enormous crater. I concede that Juliet did indeed flash ahead with them, it was a detail I had forgotten, but it doesn't change anything else. None of the previous time shifts required a bomb to trigger them, so there is no reason to believe that a bomb blast was necessary to get them back to 2007.


    there was equipment left over from the '70s?wasn't a whole sopposed to be there from when the hatch imploded?


    the bomb was just there to raise tension,a tool the writers used to make something you know is going to happen seem even more dangerous.the last flash,in my opinion,probably occured because dharma hit the pocket of energy and it got released....probably same energy/light/WHATEVER that the donkey wheel)) does something with)) i'm sorry that part was just ridicolous

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [60]May 28, 2010
    • member since: 08/11/06
    • level: 32
    • rank: Whammy!
    • posts: 45,832
    ajokurvanyad wrote:

    KingofIPirates wrote:
    Why wouldn't he exist in the new timeline? You don't automatically die once the timeline changes, the events around you begin to change once that man dies. Like if that man was supposed to make an important call at exactly 12:00pm and you kill him at 11:59am, that call no longer gets made and the chain reaction ensues.


    ok i think i figured out how to explain my dilemma.you look at the time line as straight line if you don't f&^k around with it.once you go back and change something it splits off in a new direction,like a Y(two now different time lines sharing a common base axe),right?my problem is that i thought you were talking bout creating a paralel time line,like I I,where you would need a longer base than the point where you changed something

    No not parallel, you can't create one like that as you'd be basically making a copy and only omnipotent and nigh-omnipotent(like the Phoenix of the White Crown, Living Tribunal, The Presence,etc) characters in fiction can do that.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.