Lost Forums

ABC (ended 2010)

Who really crashed the plane?

  • Avatar of AlexanderZhao

    AlexanderZhao

    [1]May 29, 2010
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    I keep hearing that it's Jacob that ultimately brought the Candidates to the island, but it was really Desmond who crashed the plane due to him not entering the sequence of numbers in the hatch. I don't recall this being influenced by Jacob in any way...


    So Jacob only orchestrated the candidates to take the same flight?

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  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [2]May 29, 2010
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    Jacob through some means probably orchestrated them taking the same flight but Desmond was the one who brought them down, I suppose without Desmond's interference they would've been brought down anyway.
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  • Avatar of AlexanderZhao

    AlexanderZhao

    [3]May 30, 2010
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    Ah damn. So sounds more like a coincidence than anything... I guess this is somewhat similar to the old ship getting marooned on the island years ago. Jacob/MIB just knew how to deal with it.



    What about "The Others"? Were they led by Jacob to come to the island? Or was it just Ben pretending that he was taking instructions from "someone"?

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  • Avatar of lostfan111

    lostfan111

    [4]May 30, 2010
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    Lets say Desmond saw Jacob on the island so he went to talk with him and forgot to push the button

    Edited on 05/30/2010 10:53pm
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  • Avatar of DARKANGEL_42

    DARKANGEL_42

    [5]May 31, 2010
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    Others have discussed this already. I think the overall feeling is that Jacob calls people to the island but individual circumstances make this happen as well. So for the Black Rock there was a storm, for Oceanic 815 it was Desmond not pressing the button. As to whether Jacob made Desmond not push it or not, we don't know. Maybe as someone else pointed out, if it wasn't Desmond then something else would make it happen later on, as Jacob had touched each one of the candidates and they would get to the island in the end.


    As for the Others, the way i see it is that Jacob gave Richard the job of guiding the ones he called as he would not interfere. Richard guides the others and their leaders (who are also potential candidates.) Over time they become corrupt (Whitmore, Ben) and so need a new leader - Locke. But smokey tricks Locke into leaving the island and ultimately Ben kills him, which Smokey uses to finally kill Jacob and then trounce the temple and the rest of the others. With the others now gone, the remaining candidates get to go straight to Jacob (as he realises his time is running out) and hence they get to make the decision as to who replaces him.

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  • Avatar of Woongo

    Woongo

    [6]May 31, 2010
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    lostfan111 wrote:


    Lets say Desmond saw Jacob on the island so he went to talk with him and forgot to push the button


    He actually forgot, because he was talking to that other guy on the cliffs(I forgot his name), then he accidentally killed him and was too late to push the button.

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  • Avatar of Pb_BigFan

    Pb_BigFan

    [7]May 31, 2010
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    Woongo wrote:

    lostfan111 wrote:


    Lets say Desmond saw Jacob on the island so he went to talk with him and forgot to push the button


    He actually forgot, because he was talking to that other guy on the cliffs(I forgot his name), then he accidentally killed him and was too late to push the button.



    His name was Kelvin
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  • Avatar of motleylil

    motleylil

    [8]Jun 13, 2010
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    I just say it's Desmond, with a little help from either fate or Jacob.

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  • Avatar of buildam2005

    buildam2005

    [9]Jun 13, 2010
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    My opinion? It was definitely Desmond, and the writers backtracked to add history late in season five to make it seem like they were saying Jacob orchestrated everything, which clearly was not their intention way back in season 2 and early 3.

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  • Avatar of madassmark

    madassmark

    [10]Jun 13, 2010
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    how about...


    - Jacob sent them to 1977 when they came to the island the second time


    - He did this knowing that they would set off the nuke in an attempt to destory the Swan which ultimately results in the crash of Oceanic 815


    - The detonation didn't destroy the hatch, but created the leak in energy under the Swan which required the button to be pushed every 108 minutes


    - And because Desmond failed to push the button on that fateful day the leak of energy they caused crashed their plane



    Maybe?


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  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [12]Jun 14, 2010
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    madassmark wrote:
    The detonation didn't destroy the hatch, but created the leak in energy under the Swan which required the button to be pushed every 108 minutes
    The bomb didn't create the leak; the leak was already in effect due to the Dharma Initiative drilling and breaking through to the pocket of energy despite Chang's repeated warnings.
    Edited on 06/14/2010 5:36pm
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  • Avatar of ajokurvanyad

    ajokurvanyad

    [13]Jun 15, 2010
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    DARKANGEL_42 wrote:


    As for the Others, the way i see it is that Jacob gave Richard the job of guiding the ones he called as he would not interfere. Richard guides the others and their leaders (who are also potential candidates.) Over time they become corrupt (Whitmore, Ben) and so need a new leader - Locke. But smokey tricks Locke into leaving the island and ultimately Ben kills him, which Smokey uses to finally kill Jacob and then trounce the temple and the rest of the others. With the others now gone, the remaining candidates get to go straight to Jacob (as he realises his time is running out) and hence they get to make the decision as to who replaces him.



    i've got a question that's off-topic regarding the others.


    so jacob was briniging people to the island to toy around with for a while now.then comes richard,becomes jacobs PR-guy,the others are formed,right?so jacob has a group of people,wich he needs to make his point to his brother,that are also aware of him and are willing to do his biding.


    my question would be: why the hell did jacob bring the losties to the island when he already had people who shared his beliefs on the island??!!!! and please spare me the theories of jacob being all-knowing and forsaw one of them replacing him.

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  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [14]Jun 15, 2010
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    ajokurvanyad wrote:

    my question would be: why the hell did jacob bring the losties to the island when he already had people who shared his beliefs on the island??!!!!
    Well if they shared Jacob's belief's they wouldn't really be a completely impartial party.
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  • Avatar of FLASHASDF

    FLASHASDF

    [15]Jun 15, 2010
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    Actually Jacob's real aim was to bring people to the island so that one of them could kill Smoky and be his replacement.


    I would like to mention the scene where Desmond first met Locke in the hatch, he said something like "Are you my Replacement" though he was saying it indifferentcontext.

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  • Avatar of ajokurvanyad

    ajokurvanyad

    [16]Jun 15, 2010
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    KingofIPirates wrote:
    ajokurvanyad wrote:
    my question would be: why the hell did jacob bring the losties to the island when he already had people who shared his beliefs on the island??!!!!
    Well if they shared Jacob's belief's they wouldn't really be a completely impartial party.


    so then the sole porpouse of the others was that when somebody came to the island they would have someone to fight....with?that's certainly what the others were doing for the past century.doesn't their presence kinda defeat the point jacob was trying to make all along?i mean these are jacob's chosen people,and they're doing absolutely horrible horrible things.sure big smoke shares the responsibility in that but then there's also the fact that richard IS AMONG THE OTHERS.he is the voice of jacob.the spokesman.jacob has a direct and an indirect line to his people....aahhh it's just stupid.i give up.rubbish.it's all a bunch of rubbish.

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  • Avatar of Kevnay777

    Kevnay777

    [17]Jun 15, 2010
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    Jacob's goal was just to find a replacement. He choose candidates that were missing something in their lives and brought them to the island. Then Jacob just left them to do their thing until he finally felt that someone was the one to replace him. Jacob never really wanted to kill smokey, just to contain him. In order to do that Jacob had to find a replacement which pretty much sums up the whole Jacob's purpose thing. As for who crashed the plane, here is my conclusion.


    Desmond technically crashed the plane because he didn't push the button. Actually if you wanted to get more technical then the Desmond's partner crashed it because he tried to escape causing Des to go out of the hatch which in the end resulted in Des not pushing the button and the plane crashing.


    Jacob brought them to the island because they were candidates.


    I really don't think Jacob sent them to 1977 like some people were saying. It was already proven that he didn't really interfered with anything because in the Richard episode Jacob told Richard that.

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  • Avatar of ajokurvanyad

    ajokurvanyad

    [18]Jun 15, 2010
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    @kevnay


    jacob's only objective wasn't to find a replacement.he was also trying to prove a point,wich he made clear from the end of season 5,the whole "everything in between is progress" thing.


    also if he was only bringing candidates why'd he bring the whole dharma initiative to the island?surely they weren't all candidates.that would be to convinient.


    as for the not interfering bit,he did interfer.he pulled sayid away from certeine death...and i'm pretty sure it was his "divine intervention" that allowed locke to survive a freefall from the conman penthouse suite.


    finaly it's about time i adress the topic as well i guess )) technically it's desmond's fault.he chose to abandon the button,but it would be again to big of a coincidence so jacob might have had a hand in the timing there.proly did.bastard.

    Edited on 06/15/2010 1:56pm
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  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [19]Jun 15, 2010
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    FLASHASDF wrote:
    Actually Jacob's real aim was to bring people to the island so that one of them could kill Smoky and be his replacement.
    It was only during his final 'hours' did he now hope that Smokey could be killed. He already explained the reason he brought them so that he could convince MIB through them that not everyone is corruptible and prove him wrong.
    ajokurvanyad wrote:

    so then the sole porpouse of the others was that when somebody came to the island they would have someone to fight....with?

    No, as revealed in Richards first conversation with Richard, the others were supposed to act as mediators so Jacob wouldn't have to step in himself.

    RICHARD: But if you brought them here. Why didn't you help them?
    JACOB: Because I wanted them to help themselves. To know the difference between right and wrong without me having to tell them. It's all meaningless if I have to force them to do anything. Why should I have to step in?
    RICHARD: If you don't, he will.
    JACOB: Do you want a job?
    RICHARD: A job?
    RICHARD: Doing what?
    JACOB: Well, I don't want to step in. Maybe you can do it for me. You can be my...my representative and intermediary between me and the people I bring to the island.
    ajokurvanyad wrote:

    that's certainly what the others were doing for the past century.doesn't their presence kinda defeat the point jacob was trying to make all along?i mean these are jacob's chosen people,and they're doing absolutely horrible horrible things.sure big smoke shares the responsibility in that but then there's also the fact that richard IS AMONG THE OTHERS.he is the voice of jacob.the spokesman.jacob has a direct and an indirect line to his people....aahhh it's just stupid.i give up.rubbish.it's all a bunch of rubbish.
    You have a point but I suppose it comes down to leadership. And I don't think Jacob brought the Dharma Initiative to the island, as they apparently discovered the island themselves through the The Lamp Post which explains much of the conflict between them.
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  • Avatar of ajokurvanyad

    ajokurvanyad

    [20]Jun 15, 2010
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    @king


    i remember that bit from across the sea,but jacob offered richard the mediator job,no word of the others.they became richard's posse,his entourage?


    the lamp post being the way dharma found the island makes sense.i guess,never really got how that station worked so i'm not gonna go into a chicken and egg debate with that.


    really liked the idea of the u.s. military finding the island and doing atomic tests there.now that was probably an awesome "war",u.s. army vs the others lol.they should make a spin-off ))

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