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ABC (ended 2010)

Why Do Finale-Lovers Find It So Easy To Believe??!!

  • Avatar of ajokurvanyad

    ajokurvanyad

    [21]May 29, 2010
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    cindycee wrote:
    perhaps jacob saw smokey as evil BECAUSE he wanted to leave the island, knowing that in order to do so the light would have to be put out, and so that is why he is calling him evil also, jacob doesnt speak very straight forwardly, so it just could be a matter of that i suppose.


    jacob can do whatever the hell he wants.he wants to keep big smoke put.big smoke wants to put the light out so he can get out of jacob's grasp.


    that's what lost was about ))

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    UnimatrixOne

    [22]May 31, 2010
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    adamfromny wrote:
    And once he was human and mortal after Desmond uncorked the island why would you still need to kill him? He's just a normal man at that point.
    Exactly. And frankly, considering how many people the island killed over the centuries, they probably should have just let it sink. That would have been a better ending. Then all the characters who died would have died for something meaningful -- the prevention of thousands more miserable deaths in the future. And you are exactly right about the story. When you strip away all the glitz, the music, the pretty people, and the characterizations and examine the PLOT on its own merits, you plainly see that the entire story was ridiculous and filled with internal contradictions and countless holes.

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    angrodpallanen

    [23]Jun 1, 2010
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    It has never been easy!
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    Scarlett_Ohara

    [24]Jun 5, 2010
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    saitoq wrote:
    Reply to topic name: It's never been EASY!
    Sorry, just had to do that O.o


    Haha.. I was thinking the same thing!
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    zedtaker

    [25]Jun 5, 2010
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    Its never Been EASY!
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  • Avatar of XXXBox

    XXXBox

    [26]Jun 5, 2010
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    adamfromny wrote:


    cindycee wrote:
    well i think the island drama got resolved, jack and the others saved the world etc., and the characters lives got resolved also, so thats two big things, little questions didnt get answered that i am curious about but those 2 major things did. so would i prefer to know all those answers and not have the resolution of the characters or island story, no. another season woulda been nice though lol.
    Dude, the entire season the main antagonist was built up to be, no, knocked over our heads to be, the MIB/Flocke. We were told over and over how his leaving the island would be "the end of the world"/"everyone you know and love ceasing to be"/blah, blah, blah. But never once were we told HOW that would occur. Yes, he could turn into smoke and thrash people and he was impervious to bullets but electromagnetic poles kept him in check so he was not invulnerable. So don't you any good story would tell us at least WHAT THE HECK WOULD HAPPEN IF HE LEFT THE ISLAND AND WHY THAT EVIL, HORRIBLE EVENT WOULD OCCUR???




    This is nothing short of ridiculous. Talk about people needing something spelled out for them. He can turn into black smoke, rip up trees like they were toothpicks and he was basically immortal in that form. Yet you need to know just what exactly he could do damage wise if he got loose? Again this is nothing short of ridiculous. I just got done watching the final 6 episodes and I cant even remember how many times we were told that it would be VERY VERY BAD if he got off the island. Nothing more needs to be said period. Anything more is an absolute waste of time.


    People simply have lost the ability to think for themselves and this is why the vast majority of TV shows and movies that are released these days actually go way to far in regards to spelling things out for people. If they dont a bunch of people scream and moan because they simply cant do any thinking for themselves. Just take the recently released Shutter Island. The ending of that film was basically spoon fed to the audience and once again this is because people have become so used to it, that they no longer have the ability to work things out for themselves and they absolutely cant stand endings that are left up to interpretation by the viewer. This was one of the great things about Lost. It didnt worry about such things and it did in fact leave a great deal up to the individual viewers personal interpretations. This is easily my favorite aspect to this show.


    The funny thing is they didn't even do that in this case. Again we were told time and time again that Locke getting off the island would be catastrophic. So they didn't get into specifics and give us a play by play of what Locke would have done if he got off the island. Who gives a rats behind. Its completely inconsequential. It would have been bad and the candidates were there to prevent it. Enough said, time to move on and that is exactly what the writers did. Again anything more would have been a complete waste of time. Are there people disappointed by Lost' ending, Absolutely and this was bound to happen regardless of how it ended. It was never going to live up to the hype and that is why I for one never listen to hype. I just went along for the ride and didn't have any expectations. Its a shame more people weren't able to do that because the show was absolutely brilliant from that standpoint. Yes there were some things left unresolved and to be perfectly honest I think that is a good thing. Had everything been explained the show wouldn't have held the same level of mystery that it now holds. Some things needed to be explained and others didn't. This just goes right back to some people needing everything spelled out for them. I am not one of those people and IMO LOST is hands down one of the best TV shows ever to be aired and I think the ending was great.

    Edited on 06/05/2010 7:03pm
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  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [27]Jun 5, 2010
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    XXXBox wrote:
    This is nothing short of ridiculous. Talk about people needing something spelled out for them.

    Not spelled out, sufficiently explained.

    XXXBox wrote:
    He can turn into black smoke, rip up trees like they were toothpicks and he was basically immortal in that form. Yet you need to know just what exactly he could do damage wise if he got loose? Again this is nothing short of ridiculous.

    How so? Given his inability to get past even Dharma Initiative sonic fences from the 70's..

    XXXBox wrote:

    I just got done watching the final 6 episodes and I cant even remember how many times we were told that it would be VERY VERY BAD if he got off the island. Nothing more needs to be said period.

    It does if it's on an global scale.
    XXXBox wrote:
    Anything more is an absolute waste of time.
    Quite the contrary, it leaves yet another unnecessary mystery as his current abilities aren't enough to inflict world destruction..
    XXXBox wrote:

    People simply have lost the ability to think for themselves and this is why the vast majority of TV shows and movies that are released these days actually go way to far in regards to spelling things out for people.It didnt worry about such things and it did in fact leave a great deal up to the individual viewers personal interpretations. This is easily my favorite aspect to this show.
    It's one thing to leave certain points open to interpretation but Lost leaves so many gaping holes in the plot that it eventually becomes random speculation as even the mechanics for some of the basic elements within the plot are left ignored.

    XXXBox wrote:

    The funny thing is they didn't even do that in this case. Again we were told time and time again that Locke getting off the island would be catastrophic. So they didn't get into specifics and give us a play by play of what Locke would have done if he got off the island.

    Play by Play isn't even necessary, just a brief summary or even a small description of what would happen to seemingly the entire human race.
    XXXBox wrote:
    Who gives a rats behind. Its completely inconsequential. It would have been bad and the candidates were there to prevent it. Enough said, time to move on and that is exactly what the writers did. Again anything more would have been a complete waste of time.
    Leaving critical areas unanswered not only creates holes in the plot but leaves it feeling incomplete.
    XXXBox wrote:
    It was never going to live up to the hype and that is why I for one never listen to hype.
    If it was well executed it could have.
    XXXBox wrote:
    I just went along for the ride and didn't have any expectations. Its a shame more people weren't able to do that because the show was absolutely brilliant from that standpoint.Yes there were some things left unresolved and to be perfectly honest I think that is a good thing.
    You can't enjoy the ride if they're blatant gaps within the story as it also affects the overall quality of the plot making scenes feel lacking if not sloppy.
    XXXBox wrote:
    Had everything been explained the show wouldn't have held the same level of mystery that it now holds.
    Not even asking for everything just the majority and with the inclusion of mysterious activity there must be some payoff as the entire appeal and aura of a mystery is solving that mystery.
    XXXBox wrote:
    Some things needed to be explained and others didn't.
    More like some things needed to be explained and were left unanswered leaving only a few issues that in fact were explained.
    XXXBox wrote:
    This just goes right back to some people needing everything spelled out for them.
    Not everything but at least present enough pieces to form even quality assessments not leave us taking random shots in the dark.
    Edited on 06/05/2010 9:01pm
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  • Avatar of XXXBox

    XXXBox

    [28]Jun 6, 2010
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    KingofIPirates wrote:
    Not spelled out, sufficiently explained.


    It was sufficiently explained. It would have been bad. All you have to do is look at the archetypes of good and bad presented throughout the show and the small hints about light/dark, light going out/darkness. That combined with the knocking over the head of just how "Bad" it would be is all anyone needs. This just shows you have absolutely no imagination. Once again this is easily my favorites aspect of the show. They didn't heed to the spelling things out syndrome that now plagues the entire industry. I for one didn't need anything more in regards to this matter, in fact giving us any more information would have ruined it imo.


    :
    How so? Given his inability to get past even Dharma Initiative sonic fences from the 70's..


    Are you kidding me? So he has a weakness to sonic fences, lol. This somehow suggests he cannot wreak havoc on humanity? I didn't realize there were sonic fences protecting all of humanities biggest cities and countries and even if certain parts of humanity were able to "Learn this secret" in time they would forever have to live behind such barriers. Hardly the kind of world I would want to live in. Sorry but once again this is nothing short of ridiculous. The fact that the black smoke was basically born out of electromagnetic forces, it isn't hard to understand that he might have a weakness for electrical fields. I for one think this was incredibly clever on the writers part and I didn't have a single problem believing it. Such a weakness certainly wouldn't have stopped him from trouncing humanity. Nothing in invincible, everything has a weakness. It would have been more unbelievable for me to believe locke had no weaknesses.


    :
    Quite the contrary, it leaves yet another unnecessary mystery as his current abilities aren't enough to inflict world destruction.


    Your entitled to your opinion. I disagree completely. Anything more IS a complete waste of time. This is one of the mysteries that should remain a mystery. Leaving this small level of interpretation up to the viewer makes it far more enjoyable, at least in my book. Then again as I have explained I actually enjoy thinking for myself and not having everything spelled out for me and I fully understand that there are A LOT of people out there that not only disagree with this but have also lost the ability to think for themselves in this manner. So in all honesty it doesn't surprise me to see people with this complaint. In fact I would have expected more people to complain. I am actually sympathetic for you in this regard as it must really suck not not being able to enjoy things unless you have them spelled out for you. You start answering every small detail like this and this show quickly loses what made it so great. I am extremely grateful that they did not. It not only made the show far more enjoyable, it will also make multiple viewing FAR FAR more enjoyable.


    :
    Play by Play isn't even necessary, just a brief summary or even a small description of what would happen to seemingly the entire human race.


    Obviously for you it is necessary because you were given MORE than enough to think for yourself in this regard and you were obviously completely incapable of doing so. The only thing that would have made you happy was them explaining exactly what locke was planning on doing, again a complete waste of time. I am sure you would have loved seeing some multi million dollar special effects sequence that shows locke trouncing city after city in one massive column of black smoke, much like what happened in the recent crappy Keanu Reeves Sci Fi film "When the Earth Stood still". Of course it would have ruined the show so I for one am thankful that the writers had more sense than to do something lame like this. They knew what they were doing.


    :
    If it was well executed it could have.


    Not a chance and anyone expecting otherwise was a fool. Its literally impossible to live up to such hype, impossible.


    :
    You can't enjoy the ride if they're blatant gaps within the story as it also affects the overall quality of the plot making scenes feel lacking if not sloppy.


    Well considering millions of people enjoyed it I guess that is proof enough that your dead wrong or are you honestly trying to suggest that I didn't enjoy it, lol.


    :
    Not even asking for everything just the majority and with the inclusion of mysterious activity there must be some payoff as the entire appeal and aura of a mystery is solving that mystery.


    All the important mysteries were solved and again answering everything would have ruined the show. Not all mysteries are meant to be solved and this show winds up being a million times better with some mysteries intact.


    :
    More like some things needed to be explained and were left unanswered leaving only a few issues that in fact were explained.


    No, it was definitely the other way around but again seeming how you need everything spelled out I can at least understand why you would feel this way.


    :
    Not everything but at least present enough pieces to form even quality assessments not leave us taking random shots in the dark.


    There were more than enough pieces given to let everyone make their own educated assessment of what happened but once again given your need to have things spelled out I can again at least understand why you feel this way. Your still wrong but I at least understand. Like I said its a shame more people couldn't enjoy it from this viewpoint because its a brilliant show when you dont need all the irrelevant answers. Sorry you didn't enjoy it. I absolutely LOVED it. I wouldn't change a thing.

    Edited on 06/06/2010 3:46am
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of aidorrocks

    aidorrocks

    [29]Jun 6, 2010
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    i have an imagination, i can think of things too. i can imagine that had smokey managed to get off the island he would be ecstatically happy to finally be free & just travel around the globe checking everything out & be happy for the rest of his life. this could be true, maybe smokey was just super pissed & killing people cos he wanted off the island. maybe when he got out there & saw so many good people in the world doing good things he would change his opinions of man (they steal, fight, corrupt etc)

    just because 1 person says "it would be bad" doesn't make it a good reason. if there's no real explanation, then we don't know that it's definitely bad. some kind of reason would be nice. e.g. because he became smokey, he's tied to the island & if he leaves like that it would wipe out all life. any kind of reason that kills my theory of "if he had left everything would be alright" cos if it's left open for many interpretations then i can can easily theorize that everything would be ok & that nullifies the importance a bit.

    hope my point makes sense.

    also, one of the writers from the show (not damon or carlton) has brought out this summary of the show

    http://lostmediamentions.blogspot.com/2010/05/someone-from-bad-robots-take-on-finale.html

    as i've said before, surely if a writer has to come out with an explanation of the story, then the story wasn't told properly
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  • Avatar of buildam2005

    buildam2005

    [30]Jun 6, 2010
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    So we're told he would wreak havoc on humanity. Okay. But when he goes to destroy the island and the rock is pulled out, he's clearly just become another human being. How would his leaving destroy the world? He can get shot by Kate, for God's sake, which really makes this whole idea that his presence off the island would be disastrous for mankind really tough to believe.


    The problem is that the writers built up these characters who lie and manipulate for their own ends (Widmore, Ben, the Others, JACOB, MIB) so much that a viewer can't take what he or she has said at face value--why should I believe Jacob when he says that things will be very bad if MIB leaves? Based on "Across the Sea," I get the sense that Jacob bought into what could be just a big old lie.


    I've said a few things before: the idea that we'd be disappointed by answers? Ridiculous. Season two's finale wrapped up some smaller mysteries very nicely; if the writers could have forethought and planned things out well then, why couldn't they do it in the later years as well? The primary reason I kept watching Lost after year two is because I DID see progression--I saw a few smaller mysteries get wrapped up as newer ones were being brought up, but then most of those mysteries never received proper or well-done resolution. Therein lies the major disappointment.


    The concept of doing "interpretation" is fine--but you shouldn't have to do so with very basic plot points or speculate to find answers about those plot points. In my opinion, "interpretation" is meant for character motivation and themes. As a critical viewer, one looks at what a character does and how that informs that character, and how different actions affect the themes an episode/season/whole show is going for. One SHOULDN'T have to guess as to what the basic plot is.

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  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [31]Jun 6, 2010
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    XXXBox wrote:

    It was sufficiently explained. It would have been bad.

    Many mystery novels are able to wrap up their mysteries coming up with an incredible payoff and it isn't considered bad but brilliant in regards to the execution and intricate plotting.
    XXXBox wrote:
    All you have to do is look at the archetypes of good and bad presented throughout the show and the small hints about light/dark, light going out/darkness. That combined with the knocking over the head of just how "Bad" it would be is all anyone needs. This just shows you have absolutely no imagination.

    No imagination? I have a pretty good imagination but that imagination doesn't replace the fact that you pretty much have no idea what would happen as there wasn't any confirmation whatsoever from the series which again leads to random shots in the dark. Plus as Aidor suggested we don't even know for sure if it would've even been bad at all because we really only have Jacob's say so(as his words given his history aren't infallible) and Widmore who was just repeating what Jacob said. He could've just gotten off the island and because he finally achieved his goal could've become an explorer.

    XXXBox wrote:

    Are you kidding me? So he has a weakness to sonic fences, lol. This somehow suggests he cannot wreak havoc on humanity? I didn't realize there were sonic fences protecting all of humanities biggest cities and countries .

    The Dharma Initiative with 70's technology was able to develop a way to not only inhibit but trap Smokey if necessary.. What do you think the legions of scientists world wide whose numbers dwarf the entire Dharma Initiative community would be able to come up with? For all we know they could easily weaponize the pylons used for these sonic fences plus given Widmore's resources the technology would already be available off the island.
    XXXBox wrote:
    and even if certain parts of humanity were able to "Learn this secret" in time they would forever have to live behind such barriers. Hardly the kind of world I would want to live in.

    Dude that's still not world wide destruction as we have been led to believe. Eventually they'd develop new technology to increase the range of the barriers even moving them further out as the years go by under this scenario.
    XXXBox wrote:
    Sorry but once again this is nothing short of ridiculousThe fact that the black smoke was basically born out of electromagnetic forces, it isn't hard to understand that he might have a weakness for electrical fields. I for one think this was incredibly clever on the writers part and I didn't have a single problem believing it. Such a weakness certainly wouldn't have stopped him from trouncing humanity.

    Yeah.. a couple hundred scientists with 70's technology somehow stopped him from trouncing their operation
    and we're to supposed to believe that the millions of scientists with more advanced technology couldn't do the same at a much faster rate??
    XXXBox wrote:
    Nothing in invincible, everything has a weakness. It would have been more unbelievable for me to believe locke had no weaknesses
    If he had no weakness whatsoever then it would make more sense as to how he could trounce humanity.
    XXXBox wrote:
    Your entitled to your opinion. I disagree completely. Anything more IS a complete waste of time. This is one of the mysteries that should remain a mystery. Leaving this small level of interpretation up to the viewer makes it far more enjoyable, at least in my book. Then again as I have explained I actually enjoy thinking for myself and not having everything spelled out for me and I fully understand that there are A LOT of people out there that not only disagree with this but have also lost the ability to think for themselves in this manner. So in all honesty it doesn't surprise me to see people with this complaint. In fact I would have expected more people to complain. I am actually sympathetic for you in this regard as it must really suck not not being able to enjoy things unless you have them spelled out for you. You start answering every small detail like this and this show quickly loses what made it so great. I am extremely grateful that they did not. It not only made the show far more enjoyable, it will also make multiple viewing FAR FAR more enjoyable.

    So If I disagree with this I've lost the ability to think for myself? I can come up with hundreds of theories as to how it would be possible for Smokey to be likely to accomplish this but none of them hold any water as there are numerous flaws in all of them.

    Really sympathetic? So let's say that Lost takes it to the extreme and solves none of the mysteries whatsoever presented in the series. So we have no idea who Jacob was, or MIB, or why he brought them to the island, everything is up in the air. You'd still be happy with that type of story because as you put it you'd still enjoy it as nothing was spelled out for you?
    XXXBox wrote:
    Obviously for you it is necessary because you were given MORE than enough to think for yourself in this regard and you were obviously completely incapable of doing so. The only thing that would have made you happy was them explaining exactly what locke was planning on doing, again a complete waste of time. I am sure you would have loved seeing some multi million dollar special effects sequence that shows locke trouncing city after city in one massive column of black smoke, much like what happened in the recent crappy Keanu Reeves Sci Fi film "When the Earth Stood still". Of course it would have ruined the show

    More than enough? I just demonstrated the numerous flaws within how Smokey with his prior ability couldn't take out humanity.

    Exactly what FLocke was planning on doing? It's not even a matter of what he was planning on doing but why Jacob came to the conclusion he would wreak such destruction
    And please explain oh enlightened one how Locke can ravage the entire human race when he was trumped by a few scientists..

    So your basing your experience on one bad movie when they're hundreds of movies with even better special effects that are much better.
    XXXBox wrote:

    Not a chance and anyone expecting otherwise was a fool. Its literally impossible to live up to such hype, impossible.
    Yet brilliant critically acclaimed series do it all the time..

    XXXBox wrote:
    Well considering millions of people enjoyed it I guess that is proof enough that your dead wrong or are you honestly trying to suggest that I didn't enjoy it, lol
    Not everyone recognizes good plotting.

    XXXBox wrote:
    All the important mysteries were solved and again answering everything would have ruined the show. Not all mysteries are meant to be solved and this show winds up being a million times better with some mysteries intact

    Not all the mysteries relevant to the story were solved only a few and out of those few quite a bit were rather underwhelming in terms of execution like the hamhanded way they handled the Whispers,etc.
    XXXBox wrote:
    No, it was definitely the other way around but again seeming how you need everything spelled out I can at least understand why you would feel this way
    I don't need everything spelled out, just enough for a coherent plot not filled with huge gaps.
    XXXBox wrote:
    There were more than enough pieces given to let everyone make their own educated assessment of what happened but once again given your need to have things spelled out I can again at least understand why you feel this way. Your still wrong but I at least understand. Like I said its a shame more people couldn't enjoy it from this viewpoint because its a brilliant
    Anyone can make educated guesses on what occured but it's not the audiences responsibility to be writing the stories for the writers, more like the other way around.
    wrote:
    Good shows may not present you with the entire puzzle with every piece where it belongs to make a clear picture, but they at least provide you with all the pieces. In the end, Lost only gave you 60% of the pieces and still expected you to get the whole picture. Shoddy storytelling at its core.


    XXXBox wrote:

    show when you dont need all the irrelevant answers.

    The answers were made relevant when they introduced the mysteries because if they weren't somehow relevant why introduce them in the first place?
    Edited on 06/06/2010 8:33am
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  • Avatar of XXXBox

    XXXBox

    [32]Jun 6, 2010
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    buildam2005 wrote:

    So we're told he would wreak havoc on humanity. Okay. But when he goes to destroy the island and the rock is pulled out, he's clearly just become another human being. How would his leaving destroy the world? He can get shot by Kate, for God's sake, which really makes this whole idea that his presence off the island would be disastrous for mankind really tough to believe.



    Some of you clearly arent getting it and I honestly dont understand why. There have been so many hints and at times we were literally hit over the head with this information. Again it goes back to the archetypes of good and evil. It wasn't just the physical damage that Locke would do if he got out. He represented the evil/the dark and once that escapes the island, the world, along with man, becomes a far darker place. Its like opening Pandora's box. Its not just what Locke could do physically if he left the island. As for Locke turning in into a human, that was because he had Desmond turn off the mechanism that created him. That was a HUGE mistake on his part and that was ultimately what Jacob and Whidmore were hoping he would do. Locke didn't have to destroy the island to leave it, he just had to have all the candidates dead. His obsession to leave the island led him to try and destroy it, obviously so there would never be a chance of him having to return. It was completely unnecessary and ultimately it caused Locke to turn into human form and gave Jack the chance he needed to kill him. As to what effect this would have had on Locke trouncing humanity, its completely irrelevant as he was killed and the mechanism was immediately turned back on. For all we know Locke would have gotten his powers back the 2nd the mechanism was reactivated. Remember we were told that the light going out was just as bad as the MIB getting off the island.
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  • Avatar of XXXBox

    XXXBox

    [33]Jun 6, 2010
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    KingofIPirates wrote:
    No imagination? I have a pretty good imagination but that imagination doesn't replace the fact that you pretty much have no idea what would happen as there wasn't any confirmation whatsoever from the series which again leads to random shots in the dark. Plus as Aidor suggested we don't even know for sure if it would've even been bad at all because we really only have Jacob's say so(as his words given his history aren't infallible) and Widmore who was just repeating what Jacob said. He could've just gotten off the island and because he finally achieved his goal could've become an explorer.


    This is the only point I am going to address. You obviously dont have a very good imagination as you seem utterly clueless as to what would have happened. You just seem utterly incapable of looking at what was given to you and making a logical assessment of what would happen had Locke/MIB gotten off the island.


    Ill help you out a bit, given the archetypes we were presented with, along with the hitting over the head manner in which they were presented, its logical to assume that if Locke got off the island he would have given humanity a choice. Follow me or die, much like the choice he gave to the people in the temple. I would imagine in the beginning A LOT of people would die as many people refused to follow him and humanity learned the hard way just how powerful he really was. On top of this the balance between good and evil in the world would have been severely tilted toward evil and the world of man would have just become a darker and more violent and deadly place. This combined with Locke basically controlling the world, well....if you honestly cant imagine the rest for yourself then so be it. Regardless you were given MORE THAN ENOUGH info to make such an educated guess. You just need it spelled out for you and LOST is definitely not the show for such people. My Advice, move on and forget you ever saw it, lol.


    As for your comment in regards to shows living up to their hype, lol. You are kidding me right? You cant name a single example of a show that had THIS MUCH HYPE and was able to live up to it. Sure there are shows that live up to their level of hype but that level never reached anywhere near the level of hype surrounding the LOST finale and the ones that did have as much hype failed just as horribly. Its literally impossible to live up to this level of hype. Again anyone who expected otherwise was not only proven wrong, but was also a fool. No offense intended. Anything that has this much hype is bound to disappoint. But hey if you can prove me wrong with example then by all means lets hear them. What series finale's have had as much hype as the Lost finale and was actually able to live up to that level of hype. I have been watching TV for 30 years and I dont know of a single show that was able to succeed. Some shows that had hype levels approaching Lost's level, Sienfeld, The Sopranos, Friends, Etc.. All of them were completely incapable of living up to the hype. If it is possible, we have yet to see it done. Just dont buy into the hype, watch the show for what it is and you will have a much better time and will be far less prone to disappointment. People have learned this lesson time and time again through TV finale's but some people are just a glutton for punishment.


    Anyways, finale's with this much hype always fail to live up to the hype, at least in the eyes of the majority. The Lost finale is just the latest finale, in a long line of finale's, to prove this point.

    Edited on 06/06/2010 9:59am
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of XXXBox

    XXXBox

    [34]Jun 6, 2010
    • member since: 09/18/02
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    aidorrocks wrote:
    i have an imagination, i can think of things too. i can imagine that had smokey managed to get off the island he would be ecstatically happy to finally be free & just travel around the globe checking everything out & be happy for the rest of his life. this could be true, maybe smokey was just super pissed & killing people cos he wanted off the island. maybe when he got out there & saw so many good people in the world doing good things he would change his opinions of man (they steal, fight, corrupt etc) just because 1 person says "it would be bad" doesn't make it a good reason. if there's no real explanation, then we don't know that it's definitely bad. some kind of reason would be nice. e.g. because he became smokey, he's tied to the island & if he leaves like that it would wipe out all life. any kind of reason that kills my theory of "if he had left everything would be alright" cos if it's left open for many interpretations then i can can easily theorize that everything would be ok & that nullifies the importance a bit. hope my point makes sense.


    Unfortunately it doesn't make any sense. Its not just about having an imagination. Its about taking the information we were given and formulating an intelligent conclusion based upon that information. The problem with your statement is that we were given ABSOLUTELY ZERO information that would back up such a conclusion. You could literally hypothesize anything. Locke could have become an ambassador for good will and peace among men. He could have become a NASA astronaut and been the first to travel to another planet. He could have run for president and not killed a single soul. You could go on and on and on and on. Again the problem is there isn't a single shred of evidence to back up such ridiculous ideas. Dont get me wrong your entitled to believe whatever you want to believe. Just dont expect other people to believe them.


    Again the writers gave you PLENTY of information to formulate a very intelligent idea in regards to what would have happened had locke/MIB gotten off the island. We were told by a lot more than 1 person that he was EVIL and that it would have been bad if Locke got off the island and if you dont want to believe the writers telling you the story then why should you believe anything at all? At some point you have to believe what the writers are telling you. Otherwise there is absolutely ZERO point in even watching it. The writers told us, and showed us, time and time again that Locke was evil and that him getting off the island would have been VERY VERY bad. If you dont want to believe that then your never going to find any resolution in this story period.

    Edited on 06/06/2010 9:45am
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  • Avatar of ajokurvanyad

    ajokurvanyad

    [35]Jun 6, 2010
    • member since: 05/25/10
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    @buildam2005


    well said.


    regarding the issue that big smoke would have been "bad" for humanity it's like saying each and everyone of the characters presented in the show is "bad".and what motivation did he have to "wreac havoc"?what?it just doesn't make sense.not to mention the fact,that buildam already pointed out,that in order for him to leave he had to turn human!!!!how much damage can one more human possibly cause?(that was a retorical question) the main plot just doesn't make sense.keeping samuel on the island is stupid and killing him was just cruel man,cruel.


    in that summary with one of the writers it said "The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world"......are you f*^%ing kidding me?!what am i?9?!was that the target audience for season 6?was i watching a cartoon all this time?

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  • Avatar of buildam2005

    buildam2005

    [36]Jun 6, 2010
    • member since: 05/30/08
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    XXXBox wrote:
    buildam2005 wrote:

    So we're told he would wreak havoc on humanity. Okay. But when he goes to destroy the island and the rock is pulled out, he's clearly just become another human being. How would his leaving destroy the world? He can get shot by Kate, for God's sake, which really makes this whole idea that his presence off the island would be disastrous for mankind really tough to believe.



    Some of you clearly arent getting it and I honestly dont understand why. There have been so many hints and at times we were literally hit over the head with this information. Again it goes back to the archetypes of good and evil. It wasn't just the physical damage that Locke would do if he got out. He represented the evil/the dark and once that escapes the island, the world, along with man, becomes a far darker place. Its like opening Pandora's box. Its not just what Locke could do physically if he left the island. As for Locke turning in into a human, that was because he had Desmond turn off the mechanism that created him. That was a HUGE mistake on his part and that was ultimately what Jacob and Whidmore were hoping he would do. Locke didn't have to destroy the island to leave it, he just had to have all the candidates dead. His obsession to leave the island led him to try and destroy it, obviously so there would never be a chance of him having to return. It was completely unnecessary and ultimately it caused Locke to turn into human form and gave Jack the chance he needed to kill him. As to what effect this would have had on Locke trouncing humanity, its completely irrelevant as he was killed and the mechanism was immediately turned back on. For all we know Locke would have gotten his powers back the 2nd the mechanism was reactivated. Remember we were told that the light going out was just as bad as the MIB getting off the island.


    The primary problem I have with this is there's not any evidence, really, in the show itself, that this is the case. Like I said, based on what we know of the characters, a lot of the ones that know anything about the island have been manipulative, vague, and lied quite a bit for their own ends. MIB, when he was human (before "becoming" the smoke monster, if that is in fact what happened), simply wanted to leave the island to see what else was out there, but Jacob had been convinced that MIB shouldn't leave. That appears to be the ONLY real reason that MIB can't leave. I'm not trying to say that it's impossible that bad things would have happened if MIB had left. But based on what's in the show, I come to the conclusion that the real answer is nothing. He wanted to leave when he was alive, and he wants to leave now that he's this smoke thing. We're never given any idea of what the smoke thing really is or what connection it has to the island's stupid light source, so there's no way to speculate whether or not its absence from the island (whether the light is still present or not) would have on the world. Maybe there would be a negative effect, but we've no way of knowing. No one ever told Jacob, "Oh, by the way, if a smoke thing comes out of the cave, don't let it leave. That'd be bad." It seems to me that he was just deluded by his mother to think that leaving the island was fruitless, and was spitefully doing whatever he could to keep MIB there as punishment for whacking their faux-mom. I think there's a big difference between having an imagination and being able to read between the lines versus having to fill in the very large blanks left by the writers in the first place. As I said, I just think there's an unfair expectation to fill in basic plot, background, and conflict when the writers don't do so. Interpreting motivation and purpose is all well and good (and what I think great shows should invite their viewers to do), but having to fill in the basic "here's what's going on" is just lazy storytelling.
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  • Avatar of KingofIPirates

    KingofIPirates

    [37]Jun 6, 2010
    • member since: 08/11/06
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    XXXBox wrote:

    This is the only point I am going to address. You obviously dont have a very good imagination as you seem utterly clueless as to what would have happened. You just seem utterly incapable of looking at what was given to you and making a logical assessment of what would happen had Locke/MIB gotten off the island.Ill help you out a bit, given the archetypes we were presented with, along with the hitting over the head manner in which they were presented, its logical to assume that if Locke got off the island he would have given humanity a choice.
    Follow him where? To Space? The archetypes remained muddled (because though Jacob is perceived to supposedly be the good guy) he himself has participated in quite a bit of manipulation and lies to achieve his ambitions.

    XXXBox wrote:
    Follow me or die, much like the choice he gave to the people in the temple.
    Why exactly? Going by his history The only reason he wanted them to follow him was that he didn't want any resistance getting off the island. Now that he's off the island why exactly would he care about world domination once the only goal that had been introduced in the series had been met. [QUOTE="XXXBox"]
    XXXBox wrote:
    I would imagine in the beginning A LOT of people would die as many people refused to follow him
    so the Dharma Initiative in their hundreds were able to completely neutralize any effort on his part to invade their territory and we're supposedly to believe that a lot of people would die?

    XXXBox wrote:

    and humanity learned the hard way just how powerful he really was.
    Power? Really? Humans have more to fear from nuclear weapons biological warfare, earthquakes.. hurricanes.. than good ol Smokey's digging up a couple of tree trunks..

    XXXBox wrote:
    On top of this the balance between good and evil in the world would have been severely tilted toward evil and the world of man would have just become a darker and more violent and deadly place.
    Why exactly? Because all of a sudden people will start going crazy and killing their families? Considering the hundreds of people on the island that didn't become murderous savages I would think not.
    XXXBox wrote:

    This combined with Locke basically controlling the world, well....if you honestly cant imagine the rest for yourself then so be it.
    What?? Controlling the world? He couldn't even control a rag tag group of scientists???

    XXXBox wrote:
    Regardless you were given MORE THAN ENOUGH info to make such an educated guess.
    No, we just got enough to barely rise above random speculation.
    XXXBox wrote:
    You just need it spelled out for you and LOST is definitely not the show for such people. My Advice, move on and forget you ever saw it, lol
    Spelled out? Just like buildam said 'The concept of doing "interpretation" is fine--but you shouldn't have to do so with very basic plot points or speculate to find answers about those plot points.'
    XXXBox wrote:
    Its literally impossible to live up to this level of hype.
    Anyways, finale's with this much hype always fail to live up to the hype, at least in the eyes of the majority.
    So your saying the more popular a show the more it will fail to have a good ending? Shows like The Shield had a good ending, So did The Wire, Arrested Development(though it was cancelled), Star Trek TNG, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, etc.
    Edited on 06/06/2010 10:32am
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  • Avatar of XXXBox

    XXXBox

    [38]Jun 6, 2010
    • member since: 09/18/02
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    buildam2005 wrote:
    The primary problem I have with this is there's not any evidence, really, in the show itself, that this is the case.


    There is plenty of evidence and its absolutely mind boggling that your not seeing it. He killed everyone in the temple simply because they wouldn't bow down and swear allegiance to him. Actually almost every single thing he did this entire season was evil yet somehow there isn't enough evidence. This just goes back to the whole thing about the writers. At some point you have to believe what the writers are telling you. If you dont then whats the point in even watching the show. Yes characters manipulated for their own ends but the Locke is evil theme was literally bashed over our heads this entire season and to not believe it based on "not enough evidence" is in all honesty one of the most mind boggling things I have heard in regards to discussing this show. He was this seasons main antagonist. To not believe it just makes absolutely no sense.


    Oh well, I understand it fully and it makes perfect sense to me. I for one believed the writers when they told me, and again showed me, time and time again that Locke was evil. In fact, I never doubted it for a minute. Its just amazing to me that someone can watch the same show and come up with a completely different conclusion especially give the amount of evidence that was presented. Considering how it ended and the statments the writers have made after the release of the finale, I made the right decision in believing them. Locke was evil and the writers clearly wanted you to believe that fact. This was not an area they wanted you to be confused about which might explain why they bashed it over our heads this entire season. It worked for me, it obviously didn't for you.



    Who knows, maybe it had something to do with how I watched the show. I didn't watch it week to week or even every other week. I watched it in large blocks, much like I do with all of my TV shows. For one I hate commercials so I cant watch regular TV. I download all of my TV shows and when I have at least 5-7 episodes that I haven't seen I watch them. Some shows, like survivor, I dont watch until I have the entire season. I just watch it in one sitting on one of my days off. Anyways I watched the final season of Lost on 3 separate occasions, the final block being the final 6 episodes (7 if you count the series finally as 2). Maybe watching the show in this manner reinforces these points. Considering I didn't see it any other way I cant speak to this being a legitimate reason. Its just something to consider.

    Edited on 06/06/2010 11:14am
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of XXXBox

    XXXBox

    [39]Jun 6, 2010
    • member since: 09/18/02
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    KingofIPirates wrote:
    So your saying the more popular a show the more it will fail to have a good ending? Shows like The Shield had a good ending, So did The Wire, Arrested Development(though it was cancelled), Star Trek TNG, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, etc.


    No offense but I am not going to argue with you over the same points again and again. Well agree to disagree. I loved the show and the ending and again my single favorite aspect to this show is that they left a lot to the viewer. It makes it a million times better in my book. As for the hype, yes that is exactly what I am saying. The more hype a show has the less of a chance it has to live up to that hype. It has been proven time and time again throughout TV history and if your honestly trying to compare the finale of Arrested Development, ST TNG and Buffy to that of Lost, Seinfeld, Sopranos, Cheers, Friends, etc....well that's pretty funny. Those were all great shows but they didn't have nearly the level of hype that shows like Lost had. Its simply a whole different level of hype which is why they are all destined to fail. Shows that have the amount of hype that shows like ST TNG, Buffy, Arrested Development etc. had are completely capable of living up to the hype and many in fact do.


    Lost had even more hype as it had so many unresolved issues and unanswered questions that people were DYING to figure out. it was impossible to live up to that hype and any show that reaches that same level of hype will also fail. The Lost finale made the cover of Time magazine. Funny but I dont remember any of those other shows you mentioned making the cover of time. Why not? because they didn't have nearly the same level of hype. Not even close. I am not even sure why you even mentioned Arrested development. While it was definitely a critically acclaimed show, and definitely one of my favorites, it never had great numbers and only averaged about 4 million viewers in season 3. A show with those numbers is completely incapable of the hype I am talking about.

    Edited on 06/06/2010 11:34am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of buildam2005

    buildam2005

    [40]Jun 6, 2010
    • member since: 05/30/08
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    XXXBox wrote:

    buildam2005 wrote:
    The primary problem I have with this is there's not any evidence, really, in the show itself, that this is the case.


    There is plenty of evidence and its absolutely mind boggling that your not seeing it. He killed everyone in the temple simply because they wouldn't bow down and swear allegiance to him. Actually almost every single thing he did this entire season was evil yet somehow there isn't enough evidence. This just goes back to the whole thing about the writers. At some point you have to believe what the writers are telling you. If you dont then whats the point in even watching the show. Yes characters manipulated for their own ends but the Locke is evil theme was literally bashed over our heads this entire season and to not believe it based on "not enough evidence" is in all honesty one of the most mind boggling things I have heard in regards to discussing this show. He was this seasons main antagonist. To not believe it just makes absolutely no sense.




    Maybe I haven't made myself entirely clear, and I take fault for that. I'm not saying he's a good person by any stretch. He's certainly done evil things, such as massacre everyone in the temple, blow up the submarine, etcetera. I'm not arguing that. I hope I didn't make it sound as if Smokey = rainbows, sunshine, and puppies, because that's not what I'm trying to say. What I'm trying to say is that the characters claiming that "very bad things will happen" if Smokey leaves the island, or that the world as we know it will end, is something I don't think I have been convinced was the case. The reason for this is because the human character we saw in Smokey in "Across the Sea" simply wanted to get off the island; he wanted to know how things worked, what was in the world beyond the perimeter of the island, etcetera, and he was forced to stay because his wacko fake mother told him he had to. Then he gets tossed in the light and becomes a big ball of smoke (the mechanism by which that happens never being made clear), and suddenly his leaving the island means the destruction of the world? Why? Because Jacob has become convinced so based on absolutely nothing?

    If there were more evidence in the show that if a person becomes a smoke monster then they have to stay or the world will end, then okay, I'll buy that. But there's not. We get no sense of transition between the human Samuel's desire to see the rest of the world and the smoke monster Samuel's desire to destroy the world. Do I think his methodology of getting off the island (by killing a bunch of "candidates") is noble? Of course not. But do I have any real reason to believe that his departure would destroy the world? Not really. Jacob was conned into believing he had to stay by a woman who clearly didn't want him to see the rest of the world, and he in turn, it seems, conned others into believing that the smoke monster had to stay on the island. There were many opportunities for Locke to kill a lot of people that he didn't (such as those that left the Temple). Did he go on his rampages and kill people that were getting in his way? Yes. Do I think that's a good thing? Of course not. But do I have any real reason to believe he'd destroy the world if he got off the island? Not so much.
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